Confused But Committed, Part 3

[Hoch]

Again, thank you.

I’d like to ask some advice on a particular issue - W has been really pushing boundaries lately. As I mentioned, previously she had been testing my limits on spending and sleeping in, which was jeopardizing my job.

At least now, the only outward rebellion is sleeping late (very late, like 5-7 hrs) on weekends, and simply refusing to get up. Which leaves me watching the kids full time after a long week of working. Again, I watch the kids solo from 6-10 every weekday, and now from 6-1 on weekends.

I have repeatedly stated that this is unfair and unkind. It is also disrespectful. However, I don’t know how to handle this sort of direct - indirect? - disrespect. I can’t MAKE her get up. But it is a significant issue. Thoughts?

I want to proceed with kindness and respect, but mostly kindness for myself and respect of my own time.

[kml]

Is she at t try dying up late at night, then sleeping in? Of us she sleeping an excessive number of total hours? Excessive sleeping can be a sign of serious depression. Has she seen a physician?

[Hoch]

Thanks for responding.

She refuses to see a doctor about her sleep habits or general unhappiness / discomfort.

I believe the sleeping is from being up late / inability to fall asleep due to racing thoughts. Which would be totally understandable. The problem is that it puts me in constant childcare mode and has been going on for quite a long time. The fact that she is getting up on time during the week now tells me she can control it, she just chooses not to no matter how much of the brunt I bear.

[DnJ]

Hello Hoch

It sounds like depression. A pretty common thing for one in emotional turmoil. Confusion and depression are ever present within them.

If she is indeed struggling with her inner demons a lack of sleep is very likely. Although the weekend does sound more rebellious based; 5-7 hours sleeping in is quite a bit. Is she actually sleeping or more laying there?

have repeatedly stated that this is unfair and unkind. It is also disrespectful. However, I don’t know how to handle this sort of direct - indirect? - disrespect. I can’t MAKE her get up. But it is a significant issue. Thoughts?

I want to proceed with kindness and respect, but mostly kindness for myself and respect of my own time.

You might as well cease repeating how unfair it all is. First, she’s heard it several times and it is having no affect. Second, if she is rebelling, then she is winning. And you keep letting her know it. And third, you are increasing its significance to her and to yourself.

Flip it 180 degrees. No telling her anymore. Besides actions speak much louder than words.

It is true, you cannot make her get up. You can only control you.

You have loving sons ages 3 and 6. The three of you are all to yourselves. Have some fun. And have some breaks. I know they are active boys. Let them rip around for a bit. Then have a more sit down activity like colouring or reading or such. Where you can get a bit of a break.

About the only boundary you can have is to just do your thing. Don’t wait on W. Focus on you and the boys and live your lives. Make plans and go out. Let her know, and invite her to join you all, the day before. The day of, if she’s sleeping in, oh well, her loss.

Be authentic and respect yourself. Enjoy your sons in their early years, for they grow up far too fast.

I would suspect laying around for hours will run its course. And sooner if not reinforced. Let her be. The less focus she gets, the more likely she will emerge on weekends like she does on weekdays.

This falls into the idea of positive reinforcement for positive behaviours and just ignoring negative ones. Like dog training. Negative reinforcement does not modify behaviour over the long term; certainly not in a positive direction.

D

[Gerda]

I am sorry I don't know your whole sitch but just saw this post. My advice is to embrace your new identity. You are a single dad. Be proud of it. Be the sole provider of love and care. Love your boys and enjoy every second. It goes fast. If you feel like it's unfair, read stories about people in Afghanistan or Syria or Ethiopia or any refugee camp and focus on how lucky you are. Forget about what your W does -- sleeping in or not, working or not, whatever. Just be a single father now and enjoy every moment and focus on making sure your boys never think you think it's unfair.

Need a break? Don't ask your W. Get a sitter. Can't afford it? Hire a 13-year old from the neighborhood to hang out with them while you do stuff around the house so you can have a break. Or find another single dad and take turns taking all the kids. Need more of a break? Drop them off with grandma or a friend.

You are a single dad now. Embrace it. That's your GAL.

If your W shows up sometimes, take a break then. If she doesn't, don't say anything. But maybe start keeping a record of these things in case you need it for court.

Is she sleeping in when you have to go to work? Put your kids in daycare in the mornings and drop them off on time. Don't rely on her. Don't want to put them in daycare? I know. It's wrong. They should have a loving mom. But they don't right now. And you can't afford to lose your job.

She isn't the woman she was. She's someone else right now. Stop expecting anything from her and stop noticing what she does.

If you want to see a possible trajectory of how this will go, you could read my thread. It's also possible that she will come out of it and come back -- and I truly believe in standing for your marriage. But while your W is this way, you can only stand for the marriage by embracing single fatherhood and being amazing at it. Stand for your family. Stand for your boys. Be the man you want them to be one day. Don't take this precious time with them for granted.

[Hoch]

So the last few days my W has surprised me. She actually attempted to get up early to help me. Has been much more kind and bubbly and is even talking of the kind of Christmas presents she wants to get me (or would if we had the money - which reflects her awareness of our finances as well).

But tonight, out of nowhere after dinner, she sort of blurted out “so I’ve been all over the place lately. I’ve been dipping into and out of deep depression. That exchange (her wondering if I’m seeing a lawyer) left me not knowing what our future holds. It left me sad and scared and lost. I don’t k ow what’s going on between us other than that it’s awkward and sad.”

That caught me offguard. I said “well first things, it makes me very sad to hear you’re so depressed and upset. And as to what ‘this’ is, what do you want it to be?”

So then she hardened and said “well I know I’m never going to be able to give you what you want in a marriage (sex) because that’s not who I am. And I know you need that. So I assume that leaves us eventually splitting up.”

I didn’t know where to take it, so I just validated back. “So I understand that that’s a hard line for you, and since it is you assume our family eventually has to dissolve. Is that right?”

And she responded, “do you see any other way?” And went out for a bit.

So yeah… I’m not sure what’s going on. She’s showing a lot of awareness. But still the hardline stance - and I still strongly believe (but not completely) that she is not asexual.

Advise me, oh wise ones.

[DnJ]

Hello Hoch

It’s hard to validate at first, and when when the conversation comes at you surprisingly it is even harder.

“so I’ve been all over the place lately. I’ve been dipping into and out of deep depression. That exchange (her wondering if I’m seeing a lawyer) left me not knowing what our future holds. It left me sad and scared and lost. I don’t know what’s going on between us other than that it’s awkward and sad.”

That caught me offguard. I said “well first things, it makes me very sad to hear you’re so depressed and upset. And as to what ‘this’ is, what do you want it to be?”

I’m sorry you feel that way.

I’m sorry you feel sad and scared.

Something along those lines validates pretty well. “It makes me very sad to hear…” turns this into how you are feeling. Her emotions are cranked to eleven. She cannot handle her own feelings, never mind your’s. Validate her feelings. The ones she is sharing with you.

“What’s going in between us”. Steer clear. Asking what she wants it to be is not going to go well. She is emotional and irrational.

”well I know I’m never going to be able to give you what you want in a marriage (sex) because that’s not who I am. And I know you need that. So I assume that leaves us eventually splitting up.”

This is where relationship talks, even the ones she starts, will end up. She is justifying her emotions. She needs time to feel differently. Don’t take the bait.

I didn’t know where to take it, so I just validated back. “So I understand that that’s a hard line for you, and since it is you assume our family eventually has to dissolve. Is that right?”

And she responded, “do you see any other way?” And went out for a bit.

You are reenforcing her view of it being a hard line, and leading to an inevitable separation.

I get that you didn’t know where to take it. Thing is, you’re not taking the conversation anywhere; she’s leading it. The best you can do is show you heard her feelings and steer clear of blame and such. You cannot reason nor rationalize this with her.

Your response left no room for anything other than her “do you see any other way?”.

“Is that right?”, is going to get you a yes response. She ain’t going to fight against it. Remember she is confused and looking for reasons and justifications to leave. Be them real or not, will make little difference to her. No need to provide her more ammo.

Many times, saying less will end up saying more. She will be more apt to spill the beans when you are just listening. Not solving or advising. She’s not a LBS looking for information and guidance. She’s a hurt gal, who doesn’t actually know what she wants.

So yeah… I’m not sure what’s going on. She’s showing a lot of awareness. But still the hardline stance - and I still strongly believe (but not completely) that she is not asexual.

She is confused and all over the place. She said as much. Whether she is asexual or not, for the moment she feels she is - so she is. Let her believe what she wants. She’s going to anyhow.

You focus on your life. On your inner self. Be better not bitter. Become the best version of Hoch. W will notice. She might even become interested again.

Do remember, her path, her journey, is about her. Keep yourself clear of it. Hopefully, W will realize that Hoch hasn’t actually been doing anything and yet she is still sad. Then maybe she will consider that Hoch is not the cause after all. And she would look inward towards herself for why she is sad.

Stay strong Hoch. You are doing a fine.

D

[Hoch]

This is so helpful. I’m very grateful that I have this place to come to for advice and to share. Thank you.

So… what do I do when she comes at me straight with what is basically, “where do you see this going, now that I’ve drawn a line in the sand?” Her approach is saying, this makes me uncomfortable not knowing. Tell me what you’re planning.

How do I deflect that, while still validating? I don’t lie well, never have. So if she says “I feel awful tell me where our marriage is going,” and I respond with “I’m sorry that you feel awful,” I’ve completely ignored her question and she will press it. Thoughts? Eventually she turns angry and finds an answer, even if “you’re being evasive so I guess we can clearly see what your answer is.”

[DnJ]

Good Morning Hoch

Yes, W’s behaviour is a rather common way these folks attempt to regain and retain control of the situation. See how she is making you the bad guy? Because…why… you don’t answer? What a confused mind she has - yes? See her emotions at play?

So… what do I do when she comes at me straight with what is basically, “where do you see this going, now that I’ve drawn a line in the sand?” Her approach is saying, this makes me uncomfortable not knowing. Tell me what you’re planning.

Whatever you do, do not tell her your plans. If you see a L, keep that to yourself. Do not share your playbook. Everything you say, will be used against you.

Respond: I can see how this is making you uncomfortable. I’m not planning anything. It’s your line in the sand.

How do I deflect that, while still validating? I don’t lie well, never have. So if she says “I feel awful tell me where our marriage is going,” and I respond with “I’m sorry that you feel awful,” I’ve completely ignored her question and she will press it. Thoughts? Eventually she turns angry and finds an answer, even if “you’re being evasive so I guess we can clearly see what your answer is.”

Good for you for not lying. Do not lie. A MLCer’s mind is like Swiss cheese when it comes to most things, but a lie or some mean thing you said or did months and months ago, they will dredge that up and utilize it to its fullest

See how her conclusion is herself trying to create justification for how she feels. And how she made it up, with little to no actual data.

How to deflect. First a question for you, from me (well actual from you just unrealized before this moment): Where do you see your marriage going?

Not where you’re wanting it to go. Where it is going.

I suspect your answer is “I don’t know”. A perfect answer. The future is unknown. I don’t know, doesn’t limit the possibilities and is the truth.

W: I feel awful tell me where our marriage is going.

H: I’m sorry your feeling so bad. I honestly don’t know where this is headed.

She will or will not accept that answer. And will or will not get angry. Her response will depend upon how she is feeling at that moment.

She may come at you with - you’re being evasive. Shrug it off. Irrational reasoning cannot be reasoned with. The best one can do is defuse the situation. Agree with her, while not accepting unwarranted blame.

W: Well, you’re being evasive so I guess we can clearly see what your answer is.

H: I’m sorry you see it that way. I’m not purposefully being evasive, I just really do not know where this is headed.

Then go about your day.

The path of your marriage takes two. You can only control one - yourself. Keep your side of the street clean. Let her be. And see if she comes around.

She has moments of clarity and does question her actions/beliefs. Her angry projections and inquisition is a result of that. She’s looking for Hoch to blow up so she can justify her view.

Breathe. Dig deep. And remain calm.

You got this.

D