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#2927050 12/07/21 12:32 AM
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Now: Me54 XW51 S25 S23 S21 D19

Oct 8/17-BD, Moves in w/OM, Leaves Kids
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
Dec 9/17-Legal Separation
Oct 3/18-W Files
Apr 6/19-Divorced

Love the Sinner, Forgive the Sin.
DnJ #2927052 12/07/21 01:02 AM
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Hello

I had a call from S23 at lunch today.

It was regarding Christmas plans. With S23’s work schedule, GF’s work, visiting her parents, and such, they are coming out noon on Christmas and leaving late 26th evening. Then back out for New Year’s. And he just had a conversation with Mom.

Recall, XW/Mom earlier pressure D19 with a guilt-trip trying to get D19 to get S21 to visit. Or call. Or text.

Then, there just was S21’s birthday visit with his Mom, and how that all went down.

Well, Mom just called S23 and told him, not asked, told him to arrange to have all four of the kids visit her at the same time during Christmas break. Told him!

I asked him what he wanted to do. His reply actually was a bit of shock. He doesn’t want to even see her or go to that house. He only has a bit of time available and wants to be with those who he loves and who love him. Specifically, me, Grandma, Grandpa, and all the siblings and their GFs. (His words.)

I assured him that he doesn’t have to visit his Mom, nor does he have to arrange visits for her.

Son has plenty of work going on. Trying to arrange six schedules to book a time. Lol. That’s hard enough for them coming here. And they want to be here!

Oh my goodness, Christmas is certainly stirring up XW’s emotions / demons. It’s going to be interesting methinks.

D


Now: Me54 XW51 S25 S23 S21 D19

Oct 8/17-BD, Moves in w/OM, Leaves Kids
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
Dec 9/17-Legal Separation
Oct 3/18-W Files
Apr 6/19-Divorced

Love the Sinner, Forgive the Sin.
DnJ #2927053 12/07/21 01:11 AM
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So, as I mentioned on Andrew’s thread, I’ve been belting out Christmas carols. Lol

He and I were discussing the echos of an empty house. Mine has a really rich resonance and it makes me sound almost good. Hahaha

I just finished singing Santa Claus is Commin’ to Town.

My throat hurts. smile

What fun.


Now: Me54 XW51 S25 S23 S21 D19

Oct 8/17-BD, Moves in w/OM, Leaves Kids
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
Dec 9/17-Legal Separation
Oct 3/18-W Files
Apr 6/19-Divorced

Love the Sinner, Forgive the Sin.
DnJ #2927055 12/07/21 01:48 AM
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D,

I know we’re not supposed to watch them but it can be mesmerizing. If the kids don’t want to visit her there you could offer up having them invite her over to the house for a visit. While you step out for a few hours to run and errand of course. I suppose this would be considered manipulation but may lead to some interesting conversations and posts.

Taz


Me55 (53@BD)
W52 (50@BD)
S22 (20@BD) S20 (19@BD)
Married 23 Together 28
BD 9/29/19 (came home from weekend fishing trip and wife had moved out with no warning)
W filed 10/19/20 (Informed me via text)
DnJ #2927056 12/07/21 01:51 AM
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Quote
He and I were discussing the echos of an empty house. Mine has a really rich resonance and it makes me sound almost good.

Once on tour we played at an old opera house in New Hampshire. The acoustics were unreal! Since it was built in the 1800's before electronic amplification, the entire building amplified the sound. It was like playing inside a huge drum - you could FEEL the resonance of the building. My favorite venue I ever played at.

DnJ #2927057 12/07/21 02:05 AM
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Hi Taz

It’s not the house, it’s that the kids don’t much want to visit her.

(And there is no way she’s getting non-DnJ supervised access to my house. Lol)

You see, none of them would want their spouse to do what XW did to me. They do not hang out with people of such immorality. They do not promote such behaviour. They do hold people accountable, and therefore themselves as well. However, she is their Mom. So, a bit of a conundrum.

Another facet to this, is XW is not their “Mom”; that loving woman that raised and cared for them. Being thrown away brought that into sharp focus for them all. XW is a trouble person. A gal who is mostly a stranger to my kids. Over these four years they all grew up, except XW. The kids and her grew even further apart.

I suspect I will hear plenty. There is going to be some fireworks. I can almost guarantee it. (See next post. Oh a cliffhanger. smile )

D


Now: Me54 XW51 S25 S23 S21 D19

Oct 8/17-BD, Moves in w/OM, Leaves Kids
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
Dec 9/17-Legal Separation
Oct 3/18-W Files
Apr 6/19-Divorced

Love the Sinner, Forgive the Sin.
DnJ #2927058 12/07/21 02:06 AM
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Hi kml

That would have been so cool. What a sound and feel that would have been.

D


Now: Me54 XW51 S25 S23 S21 D19

Oct 8/17-BD, Moves in w/OM, Leaves Kids
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
Dec 9/17-Legal Separation
Oct 3/18-W Files
Apr 6/19-Divorced

Love the Sinner, Forgive the Sin.
DnJ #2927059 12/07/21 02:09 AM
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DnJ,

Believe it or not over the last two weeks I read through your entire situation. All 4 years and 24 threads. Wow. It's been said ad nauseam on here, but your sitch must be most egregious examples of BD/WS on this board...and that's saying something!

I can not imagine celebrating a happy family Holiday together and then have that announcement and departure in front of everyone. You don't talk as much about the first three months in your threads, choosing to focus more on the future, and I'm sure you were down at the time but it's incredible how quickly you picked yourself up.

I took notes while reading through, so hope you don't mind going back in history a bit, but a few items which resonated with me...
Originally Posted by DnJ
Anyhow when W left her parents she took a couple sweaters, and forgot her purse and house keys. When she left me she took a couple of sweaters, forgot her purse and house keys.

Even in my state I recognized this repeated sign. Tons of memories flooded back in. The same event at the start of our living together and at the end of our living together.
I remember my ExW telling me (well before BD or any of this) how her family went to Disney together just before her mom left her dad, and found out ExW actually knew of her mom's affair and that she was leaving her father before he did. Low and behold...guess where we were as a family 2-3 weeks before BD and me finding about about the affair? The parallels to her teenage years / parents sitch are uncanny. Multiple people pointed that out to me, including ExFIL. Her IC must've picked up on that?

Originally Posted by DnJ
The short version of our separation agreement - W crafted the entire agreement. She is entitled to half of everything, she was a SAHM and had little income. She went against her lawyer's advice, the advice of two financial planners that her lawyer made her see, and on top of all the separation paperwork she had to sign a wavier stating that she acted against all this advice and could not sue her lawyer.

Our agreement: I have my full pension, I own the house and all contents, I pay no spousal support, I have 100% full custody of the children, I am entitled to child support from her, she has no visitation schedule, visiting is only when agreed by all parties (W and kids, I do get a say also). She got the clothes and items she already had and some money.
The whole situation is not ideal (to put it mildly) but in terms of the actual divorce negotiations/agreements, consider yourself very fortunate. In some ways J taking the approach she did was very beneficial, and this is one of those! The financial result for you is incredible.

Originally Posted by DnJ
Our family used to hang out with three other families. After BD one family felt similarly to me. How could W do that to me and the kids. They saw her actions, deeds, immorality, etc... saw the fact that OM for a second time stole another mans wife. They just cannot condone these things. They accept what has happened, and by that I mean not living in denial about it, but they are not currently her friend. That family has been here for us and we have seen them often. They have been a great support IRL.

The other two families have not spoken to me or the kids in these 7 or so months. They have had W over for suppers and to stay the night when she was taking training in the city. Their attitude, behaviour, betrayal, whatever you want to call it in regards to this situation is hard to fathom.
This is an area which surprised/disappointed me. It's one thing for family or friends of one spouse to stick with their side, but I expected more of the people in the middle to pick the good actor in the sitch. I thought there would be a bigger objection to ExW's actions than there's been, of course her family & friends are only hearing her side and perhaps others keep their thoughts to themselves, but when she's laughing and joking with people on the sidelines of games who know the story...I guess I didn't expect that response.

Originally Posted by DnJ
I will not date while married, I am a pretty darn loyal dude, even if W doesn�t deserve it. My faithfulness and loyalty also shows to others.

I have received inquires for dates and I have not lead anyone on. I have again been honest and said at the moment I am unable to date because I am still married. I am also not ready to date yet, as I am unsure about W and I.
Same here. I held firm on dating before the D was finalized and feel good about that both for myself and my children.

Originally Posted by DnJ
A spouse who is showing confusion, reliving past events, behaving like a youth or adolescent, has extreme personality changes, becomes the opposite of who they once were, may be suffering a mid-life crisis. There is no tests that can be conducted to confirm a diagnosis. People transit from stage to stage in their lives. Child to adolescent to young adult to adult to golden years.

These transitions can be difficult. People with poor coping skills or having learned few to none cannot handle the new view of life as they age. Mid-life is especially difficult as mortality and old age becomes a realized certainty. Those unlucky few that cannot find a way to cope with their emotions enter a crisis, and suffer a MLC.

The MLCer does suffer. Usually 18-24 months before a bomb drop event there is a trigger. This sets them on a path with disaster. These poor people have emotional damage or trauma from an earlier point in their lives, usually childhood issues. A sexual assault, abandonment, abuse, etc... something that their young minds just couldn�t handle, so they push it down within themselves, blaming themselves for being bad or deserving it.

This is so far burried within them they themselves don�t even know the trauma, their psyche having hidden it so well. However at midlife it bubbles up and consumes them. They have no idea where the strange and dark emotions and thoughts are coming from. My own W thought she was going insane.

This emotional torment is unrelenting, they try to hide it and continue, knowing not anything else to do, the poor coping skills. They project their cause of pain on to you the left behind spouse, the person they loved the most. Most couples are so intertwined that the boundaries of one person overlap the other, in their mind. The MLCer blames you, as they cannot blame themselves. They project everything into you and resentment builds until it explodes.

The MLCer needs relief. They will run from you, spend money on anything that will make them feel better, almost all have affairs. They are absolutely driven to run, they have to, they must escape their demons. It is a terrible thing to be tortured by your own mind. Of course no matter how hard or fast they run, they cannot escape themselves.

The LBS did not cause this. The seeds of the MLCers breakdown were planted many years before they ever even met the LBS. They were destine for MLC, it was going to happen with their LBS or someone else or even if they were single.
This speaks to me, so much.

Originally Posted by DnJ
So, I suppose, for those who read along. Do your hard inner work. Have those difficult conversations with your kids. Be the role model. Be a lighthouse - for you and them. Your kids are watching you. And they will be just fine with one strong stable parent.
This was about your D19's anger towards mom...I strive to be the role model and lighthouse you are with your kids.

Originally Posted by DnJ
Regarding XW - Looking back she became someone else. Years and years of history; I have not rewritten. My four kids see her similarly. My parents, our friends, etc. also see the same. For all those years, all those memories, pictures, letters, cards... She would need to be a world class actress to hide this for so long.

Of course the seeds of this existed within her; dormant, asleep, waiting to awaken. I had no suspicions of her or the impending destruction which was to be released. She had my complete faith and trust. Years and years of a loyal and faithful relationship, until the last bit. I have never found out any different. If her declaration of being unhappy for 2, 5, 15 years is true, she is a fantastic actress.
I struggle with was my ExW acting the whole time? 7 years married and 9 years together doesn't compare to others on here but is a long time to pretend. Or did an emotional trigger like our daughter being born or the family vacation which mirrored her parents' sitch? I may never know. I heard from others now including some of her family she's been like this her whole life or at least since a teenager, but me and my family didn't see it. Was it our rose colored glasses or did she suppress it, or were we bringing her up like others here have alluded to in their sitches? Maybe a combination. I don't know.

Originally Posted by DnJ
Part of D18�s understanding comes fro her BF�s Mom. OMG. That women is in a full blown crisis. She is threatening to leave. Wants a divorce. Has the paperwork. Runs out of the house to go see her L, and then calms down and comes back with the papers still unsigned. Over the summer she has gotten way worse.
BF is 17. He is not married. He is not breaking up with D18 either. She and he have been texting many times every single day. He is telling all, and D18 has been sharing. That home situation is gone completely off the rails. The Mom is, or has, already imagined her son married, divorced, and moving on to his second marriage. Crazy town!

The Mom and Dad are both on their second marriage. The Mom has two previous children and the Dad has four. These six grown adult kids do not speak with the Mom - ever. And Mom gets mad and forbids Dad to speak to his four children. One of her daughters, this summer (see the timeline), gave birth to a daughter, the first grandchild - which the Mom cannot see. Oh, there is so much disfunction.

However, this is fodder for conversation and learnings for D18 and BF. He and I have not directly spoken about this. However, BF has his head screwed on right, and D18 and him do talk. I suspect he isn�t going to remain living in that house much after his eighteenth birthday. Pretty sad situation going on over there.

And of course the Mom cannot see this. She is not wrong. D18 realizes this and the futility of trying to reason or make her see the truth. One cannot make someone see that which they are blinding themselves too.
Originally Posted by DnJ
My kids are growing and getting closer and closer to marriage. I�ve no doubt S23 and S22 will someday pop the question. And as Dad, and someone who�s been around the block, I will pass on my advice. S22 as already ask for some regarding engagement and marriage. I know my suggestions to the kids would be taken with high regard and respect.

None of my kids or their BF/GF would want their partner to do what Mom/XW did to me. I know this advice/wisdom would be well received, for the foundation has been crafted for many years. Be responsible, reliable, accountable, ethical, honest - do the work, for there are no shortcuts to the true goals you seek.

Don�t marry for love. Counterintuitive, until it isn�t.

Looking back, I think young DnJ and old DnJ would have a pretty interesting conversation.

I am happy. I live regret-free. I live a great life.
Later in your thread your daughter breaks up with her BF. I think that's a good decision for her in the long run. Perhaps the unhealthiness his family demonstrates might be a model for him in the future, even if he doesn't want it to be.

With your kids and the people they date (one of your sons was considering engagement?), do you talk to them on family situations and upbringing being a factor in their life decisions? As you mention at one point, marriage should not be just about love.

Originally Posted by DnJ
�Gears�, it�s all just a big calculator. The answer is 42. Lol.
Guess you understand the reference for where the number in my screen name comes from! It's not my age or favoriate athlete's jersey number ;-)

Originally Posted by DnJ
Her and I had a nice pork chop meal and sat and talked about all kinds of things after the meal. I updated her on her grandkids and their lives. My kids are doing excellent. XW�s actions, behaviour, and such was also discussed. The parallel between her abandonment of her children and her Mom�s behaviour is striking. As striking as my kids� healing and acceptance / forgiveness. Something my Mom commented upon, and putting aside my modesty, I did really well with encouraging and fostering.

MLC is about unrealized and hidden trauma(s) from one�s childhood. A 15 year old girl abandoned by her Mom has the potential to be such a seed.
Your kids seemed to have adjusted and are thriving both academically and emotionally. Are you worried these seeds your ExW/their mom has sewed my surface years down the road despite the present? Have you ever thought about IC for them?

Originally Posted by DnJ
In fact, I've only found items that furthered our good marriage memories. An anniversary card and gift for me; our 27th anniversary was in four days after bomb drop. I discovered my 50th birthday present. Old love letters and such to me and from me. And so on and so on.
My wife gave me a wonderful Christmas present, and then a few weeks later an exteremely thoughtful birthday gift which her uncle painted a picture of our beaches chairs together at our main vacation spot facing the kids at the water...a month before BD. Go figure.

Originally Posted by DnJ
There was plenty of strange stuff as well. For example, eleven brooms, ranging from wore completely out to a couple brand new and still with the original packaging.
My ExW bought things over and over again too. It baffled me and drove me nuts. Think we owned 5 different toasters, 6 different coffee makers (she was the only one who drank it), there were a stack of unused/unopened smoke alarms in the basement more than the number of rooms in the house...etc in the relatively short marriage. Bizarre.

Originally Posted by DnJ
And for those reading along - XW would have left regardless of how I acted or behaved. Pretzeling doesn�t work. Your spouse�s actions have little to nothing to do with you.
Yes. This is important for me to understand. It's not that I was perfect - I have areas to work on - but was an excellent father and a pretty good husband and do believe it was more about my ExW's inner demons than me.

Originally Posted by DnJ
Interestingly, a few more blank message were left on the machine. Again.
You still have a landline? LOL. Ditch it for the cell phone and you'll see what numbers are calling!

Originally Posted by DnJ
I didn’t break her, therefore I cannot fix her.
Again, simple concept but so important for many of us on here to understand.

Originally Posted by DnJ
Four years.

It occurs that the anniversary of BD is just a little over two weeks away. Looking back, these past four years have been very good to me. For XW, I suspect not so much.

Is she happy? She is considering her actions and the results thereof. That’s plenty of guilt, shame, and such. Hurting me, her XH, is one thing. Hurting her children. Well, perhaps she is seeing herself a wee bit from an other’s perspective. Not much joy within that legacy.
You've done so well for yourself and your children over the past 4 years. Well done. Be proud.

I can't imagine she's happy. If she's not pondering what she lost she will at some point.

Originally Posted by DnJ
I am, like you, one of the ex-husbands/Dads that kept the home during the separation. Quite a rarity how things all went down.

I’ve changed a few things and replaced a few items. However, for the most part the home is how it was.
Same here. I'm content and happy. Don't need to change things at an attempt to create happiness.

Originally Posted by DnJ
I mentioned to son, “This is one heck of a Thanksgiving”. He deadpanned back, “We’ve had worse”.
LOL! Maybe the funniest line I've read on this board!

Originally Posted by DnJ
54 years and 4 days old. I’ve loved and lost. Was married to an incredible gal for 26 years. Have four incredible and wonderful children. Have two wonderful parents who are both still here. I am at the top of my game at work. A recognized expert and sought after for wisdom and guidance. (That is going to be difficult to let go of. smile ) I’m healthy, happy, and whole. I took 19 years off my mortgage. Was debt-free. Became divorce. Paid her off. Became debt-free again. I was the sole parent and guardian after the divorce settlement. I’m providing financial support for my children’s education. I’m single. I’m content.
And this is perhaps the best summation of your situation. Congrats again on the progress you've made over 4 years. You have come so far in your journey and helped out so many others, first and foremost your children, but also those here across all the forums ("Newcomers", "Surviving Divorce", "MLC").

And don't worry...I'll be a bit more brief in my future comments on your thread ;-)


Me:39 Ex-W:37
M:7 T: 9
S:6 D:3
BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20
OM1 affair ends: May '20
W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20
W files for D: Jul20
OM2 confirmed: 9/2020
Divorced: May '21
DnJ #2927060 12/07/21 02:37 AM
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I don't know what to tell you about J. I tried for a long time to facilitate my kids seeing their dad, as I knew from ex's own family experience that being estranged from a parent is a burden. Yet here we are, 12 years later, 1 is completely estranged, the other two have shaky relationships with their dad.

I don't have an answer. Guess the kids have to decide for themselves. Just perhaps they shouldn't leave her hanging? And if you can, you might facilitate or encourage some kind of contact (maybe at a different time) - I just hate to think of your ex getting bad enough to commit suicide or to overdose, and your kids then feeling some guilt over not having seen her?

DnJ #2927061 12/07/21 02:38 AM
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Hello All

Ok, next next post. Lol.

The other thing from son’s lunch conversation, which I was sworn to secrecy about. Which I find rather humorous, my ethics being so, I won’t even break his confidence to an anonymous group.

The engagement ring arrived.

S23 just video called me. He and her were cuddled on the couch and she is beaming. Oh my, I am so happy for them!

Son was telling me at lunch that he was working on how to ask her. He had some outdoor ideas, but it is -28C with a -49C right now.

He tried decorating the house so when she came home…surprise. But no. As he said, his decorating looked like cr@p.

I told him, no matter how you propose. No matter where. It will be special. It will be remember forever. Don’t fret the details, she loves you. Be authentic.

So, how did he propose? (OMG, this is soooo good.)

GF, oops. Fiancée. Well no, still GF at this time.

GF was home relaxing after teaching all day. S23 called for her to please come to the other room. (He was there on bended knee. Far too excited to wait any longer to pop the question.)

She got up from laying on the couch. In her pyjama onesie. Dalmatian looking onesie; white with black spots. With the hood actually flipped up (it is cold right now). The hood with ears. And came bouncing into the other room.

Him all dressed up on knee, her in a Dalmatian suit. Ring out held, question asked, she said yes. Absolutely perfect!

S23 captured it on video. GF, wait, it’s now, Fiancée loved it.

They are now calling all those people who they love and who love them.

Grandma, just called me mid post. She is ecstatic from the news.

What a night!

D


Now: Me54 XW51 S25 S23 S21 D19

Oct 8/17-BD, Moves in w/OM, Leaves Kids
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
Dec 9/17-Legal Separation
Oct 3/18-W Files
Apr 6/19-Divorced

Love the Sinner, Forgive the Sin.
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