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Originally Posted by Wolfman
That she was never happy when she was with me.
W: Really? Those were sure some great times for me.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
Another that she doesn’t want to talk to me on the phone all the time. Yet, she the. Complained when she took a cruise with her mom I didn’t call her on the cruise. Huh??
W: I am really sorry baby, I didn't want to disrupt your vacation.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
Claimed I was shoving my gf down her throat. Yet then complained that she really doesn’t know my gf?
I agree with her on this one. You should have gave her time to adjust to the divorce.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
When she was a little girl I would force her to go to the playground. That I wanted her to go when she was like 5-9 years old. We lived across the street from the elementary school so it was right in my “front yard”. She was asking me all the time to take her when she was little. Hope those help for examples.
W: Really? Boy I sure do remember those great times we had at the playground.

Argumentative people are exhausting Wolf. Time to make some changes even if you have to eat some $hit sandwiches.


M:51 W:46
T:22 M:16
S:15 D:11

�Happiness equals reality minus expectations�- Magliozzi
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Originally Posted by Dawn70
I may be way off base here, but I had and survived 3 teenage daughters and this kind of stuff was typical for my girls at a certain age. One minute they would be saying they didn't eat breakfast so I was wasting my time cooking it for them and the next minute they were complaining I wasn't cooking them breakfast and they were "starving". Kids are kids are kids. Your situation is, of course, exacerbated by all the drama surrounding it, but you have to do your best to listen to what your D is saying to you and then validate it.

This is very true. I might be able to handle it better if my situation was a lot better. Not an excuse I am just mentally exhausted and spent. You are so right, I just want so bad for her to remember all the fun we had together. So, I try to get her to see that, but listening to all of you i see it's counterproductive with my approach. Honestly, I am so scared if I didn't defend myself that I would look like this monster in the therapists eyes.

Originally Posted by Dawn70
You have to go into adult active listening mode, not defensive the world is against me mode. Think about it like this.....you have been saying parental alienation all along and have been fighting to get others to agree with you and see it that way. If that is, in fact, what is going on, can you step outside of yourself for a minute and see how that puts your d in a bad situation if her mother is manipulating her?

I think I said this last time, The therapist wrote a letter to my lawyer that she suspects parental alienation and she recommends forensic psychologist. That's the other thing that is really bothering me. Mom in brainwashing my d and it's taking forever to get forensics. Forensics will show alienation and then I can get the appropriate therapist for my daughter. There is a nationally renowned therapist 15 minutes away (who has wrote books about this and spoken around the nation) from me that I could get my daughter to go to, to get her the appropriate therapy.

LH thank you for those. I will definitely use those going forward. The one I did use was:

Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by Wolfman
Another that she doesn’t want to talk to me on the phone all the time. Yet, she the. Complained when she took a cruise with her mom I didn’t call her on the cruise. Huh??
W: I am really sorry baby, I didn't want to disrupt your vacation.

I said something very similar. I didn't want to call because you were on vacation and didn't want you to worry about getting to a phone. I just wanted you to enjoy your vacation.


M:42 XW:41
T:19 M: 15
D:13 S:10
BD: 8/10/18
Moved out: 8/18
Moved in: 9/18/18
Moved out: 4/22/19
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D final 3/18/20
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Originally Posted by Wolfman
This is very true. I might be able to handle it better if my situation was a lot better. Not an excuse I am just mentally exhausted and spent. You are so right, I just want so bad for her to remember all the fun we had together. So, I try to get her to see that, but listening to all of you i see it's counterproductive with my approach. Honestly, I am so scared if I didn't defend myself that I would look like this monster in the therapists eyes.
It is NOT your job to work the therapist. It is your job to listen and engage with the therapist and to try and listen and engage with your daughter under the direction of the therapist. If you have a good therapist, it is not his or her place to judge whether or not you are a monster and that kind of seems like an excuse to continue to try to prove you are right by defending yourself. Let the therapist do their job and you just listen and validate. Drop the defensive posture and see if you make some headway.


Originally Posted by Wolfman
I think I said this last time, The therapist wrote a letter to my lawyer that she suspects parental alienation and she recommends forensic psychologist. That's the other thing that is really bothering me. Mom in brainwashing my d and it's taking forever to get forensics. Forensics will show alienation and then I can get the appropriate therapist for my daughter. There is a nationally renowned therapist 15 minutes away (who has wrote books about this and spoken around the nation) from me that I could get my daughter to go to, to get her the appropriate therapy.
Yes, you have said that before...several times in fact. Things will move however fast the therapist and courts push them to move, so what you can do in the meantime is do your best to just be stable and keep showing up for your d and listen and validate. Of course it is mentally and physically exhausting! It feels that way for you, think about how it feels for your d, who is being pulled in 2 very different directions. She wants to please both of you but she's in the middle so she's lashing out. It's a tough situation for all of you for sure.


Originally Posted by LH19
Argumentative people are exhausting Wolf. Time to make some changes even if you have to eat some $hit sandwiches.
SO. MUCH. THIS! I totally agree with LH. You are going to have to put your big boy pants on and suck it up, buttercup and adult your way out of this one. Arguing about being right or trying to convince d to see things from your perspective is about as beneficial as repeatedly bashing your forehead into a brick wall.


Me 52, H53
Bomb drop 9/29/2014
Divorce from XH final 12/17/2014
Marriage #2 12/31/2019
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Hello everyone. Hope you all had a great thanksgiving.
I have just been really lost lately. The therapist wrote the letter and it was a bad one. Pointing out that I am the one who wants the forensic psychologist, that I mention parental alienation to her but doesn’t mention that she sees it too, that my daughter and I have made no progress which is true. The incident where my ex came barging in didn’t really mention that. On top of this I am running out of money. I went to another lawyer because my lawyer is not getting back to me. I called and emailed numerous times and have heard nothing from them. This new lawyer I met with told me a forensic psychologist is very expensive and the letter the therapist wrote, my ex’s lawyer could make me pay for it all. That is between $8k-$15k. In the meantime the therapist stopped therapy with my d and I. I haven’t seen her in a month. I don’t know what to do. I don’t have money for a new lawyer. The forensic psychologist is too expensive for me. After that letter the therapist wrote I don’t want to use her anymore. That letter was not at all what she has been telling me privately. I am so tired of all of this. I don’t know what to do. I am just dumbfounded how my ex has continued to get away with all of this. I do I continue when I don’t have the money??? I am so depressed.
Yet my baby is amazing and I try so hard not to let that situation affect how I am with my gf and baby. My gf cracks me up, because she only goes by what she reads in books and online. For example. She insists on putting the baby to bed at 6:30 every night. Yet complains that he wakes up 2 times a night. I tried to tell her what worked for my other kids about keeping them up later so they sleep later. She also breast feeds and I am sure he is hungry, I suggested give him a bottle of the milk she pumped and putting some cereal in it. Nope she refuses. I want to say to her, the. Don’t complain you haven’t slept in 6 months when this worked for 2 of my children at this age.


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T:19 M: 15
D:13 S:10
BD: 8/10/18
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I’m so sorry about the situation with your daughter. You may have to accept that for a while, you may need to sit back. Continue to make appropriate attempts to reach out, buy her nice Xmas presents, tell her you love her, but work on accepting the situation too. You can’t force her - this will be more like coaxing a squirrel to eat from your hand. Patience, patience. Kindness. She’s hurting, she feels betrayed and replaced. She might also feel like mom “needs” her to take her side.

Kids change. Without focusing on resisting you, she might eventually turn more of her teenage rebellion on mom. Heck, she might come to you a couple of years from now and ask to live with you. Just be steady, loving and supportive but don’t push.

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Hi Wolfman,

I'm sorry to read this development. Sending warm holiday wishes to you and yours. I would have replied sooner but my own situation has been quite active lately--good and bad. wink

I think you may still have a shot with your daughter in the nearer term. Clearly, trying to "win" in court is cost-prohibitive, and being "right" isn't scoring with your daughter or psychologist. Your psychologist says you and your D aren't making progress, as you kinda knew. You need to change something if you want a different outcome.

Is this the moment you stop arguing your points and listen to and validate your D? If so, TELL the psychologist that, so they know the next few visits could be more productive and might be worthwhile, then follow through. If they agree no big costs, and another shot at rebuilding a relationship now instead of in a couple of years from now.



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Time and distance will help Wolfman. Keep reaching out when you can. Validate her feelings when she expresses them - especially when you don’t agree. This is not a win-lose situation. It’s a win-win or lose-lose and you have more power in this than you think you do. I don’t think I would waste time going down the parental alienation route. Even if the world agrees with you, how would that change the situation with your daughter? Would she suddenly feel differently? I highly doubt that she would. You need to accept where she is at and go from there. Show her that you are not the person she thinks. Keep your temper in check, resist the need to defend yourself or argue with her, do NOT talk about her mom and mom’s bf, etc… Focus on your other kids and when you see your daughter, even if it is just in passing, make sure you are warm and friendly towards her. Eventually she will get curious and start to question her beliefs about you. This will not last forever. Feelings change and hers will too. Just be as patient as you can possibly be and let her lead the way. If her mom is as manipulative as you say she is, your D will eventually see that and start to question things. This will be on her timeline, though, not yours. Best of luck. (((HUGS)))


Me 53
H 48
B/G Twins 13
SD 21
Legal SA - January 2019
Divorce filed - June 2019
Divorce final - November 2019

Together 14 years
Married 12 years
BD1 - May 2014
BD2 - September 14, 2018

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Hello everyone. It had been a while. Hope everyone is trying to enjoy these holidays.

KML, Dejavu, and CWarrior. I am sure you are all right. That I can’t make her come back. It is just so hard. I am losing so much time with her. I am missing her growing up. I don’t get that time back. I am trying g to get back with the therapist and do what everyone says, validate and just listen. I just always felt I needed to prove myself. Be back soon gotta run.


M:42 XW:41
T:19 M: 15
D:13 S:10
BD: 8/10/18
Moved out: 8/18
Moved in: 9/18/18
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(((((W)))))

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Wolfman,

Sorry about the relationship struggles with your daughter. That must be incredibly difficult as a father.

With the New Year ringing in tonight resolve to continue validating and listening in 2022 and have hope and faith things will improve.

Good luck.


Me:39 Ex-W:37
M:7 T: 9
S:6 D:3
BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20
OM1 affair ends: May '20
W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20
W files for D: Jul20
OM2 confirmed: 9/2020
Divorced: May '21
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