Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 5 of 11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 10 11
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 6,239
Likes: 61
G
Member
Online
Member
G
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 6,239
Likes: 61
I agree KML, but I think it’s seriously being exacerbated around the situation going on with her baby daddy. I don’t think it’s all irrational. I’m pretty sure she is scared as sh!t

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,286
Likes: 65
D
Member
Online
Member
D
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,286
Likes: 65
I didn’t minimize anything. Yes, she obviously has something going on but I am not a doctor and can’t diagnose or treat her over the internet. I was merely pointing out that, if I were in her shoes, dealing with ALL the stuff she is, I would likely be protective as well. Does that mean I think she shouldn’t seek medical help? Of course not! A professional might very likely be able to help her and guide her and make her feel more safe. None of us really know exactly what she or Wolf is dealing with because we aren’t walking in their shoes. My heart really does go out to all of them.


Me 52, H53
Bomb drop 9/29/2014
Divorce from XH final 12/17/2014
Marriage #2 12/31/2019
5 adult (step)daughters (3 from XH's first marriage, 2 from current H's previous relationships)
6 grandkids
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 4,429
Likes: 54
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 4,429
Likes: 54
Originally Posted by wolfman
Look the therapist asked me a question about the previous session and I was simply answering it to her. I am certainly not going to sit back when someone attacks my character. Maybe that’s something you all do, but I won’t allow it. I made sure I did not raise my voice at all!! I spoke firmly and that was it. When someone is attacking your character you all just validate the lies?? Anyway.

Originally Posted by Dawn
You can validate someone without accepting their lies and LH gave you a perfect example of how to do that, so I won't belabor that point. You say "maybe that's something you all do, but I won't allow it"....as long as you have that attitude, you will continue to NOT make progress with your d because I can pretty much guarantee you that she is as put off by that as I am and I am a complete stranger to you.

Wolf, I get you're struggling with validation and when to deploy it. Validation involves recognizing and acknowledging someone else's feeling and their validity. If you Google, "Wheel of Emotions", you will see a list. Emotions are not logical arguments, so "validate the lies" is a non-sequitor, assuming we're discussing validation as DB and psychologists discuss it. There's a whole thread here on validation. There's also a great video by Brene Brown about Empathy.

Active Listening is another technique you should deploy to build rapport. This involves showing you understand what the other person is saying. "You're saying that your brother gets an oreo cookie every time he plays football, and you don't have an opportunity to play football, so he gets more oreo cookies and that's unfair." Here you actually are restating their logical argument. You are not agreeing (or disagreeing). You are showing that you get what they're saying.

Case #1: Your D - Yes, you should be actively listening and validating your D. It's a shame you didn't learn these techniques before your therapy sessions with her ran out. Life is long, so if you up your game, there's a good chance you'll get another shot down the line. Be ready! Practice these techniques on your friends and loved ones.

Case #2: Your XW - kml and I did not encourage you to validate or actively listen. We encouraged you to stay quiet and let the therapist deal with the crazy. This is in contrast to the right-fighting where neither of you prioritized your D. I get it probably feels unfair that your relationship with D is in a place where you have to be better than your XW.

Case #3: Your GF - kml is a medical professional and pointing out your GF's behavior shows warning signs for a mental health issue with consequences for your newborn. Encourage her to get checked out so she can get better if that's the case.



Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 641
W
Wolfman Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
W
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 641
Omg, thank you all for your loving advice and support. I apologize for coming off so strong. This has been just near impossible for me to handle. I was not trying to offend even though it probably came across that way.
Originally Posted by LH19
Wolf buddy all these years you still don’t understand validation lol.

Therapist: Wolf you stole the stapler from my desk!
Wolf: I understand you’re upset but I did not steal the stapler from your desk.

You are absolutely right. I am terrible at it. I just feel there is so much lies being thrown at me i don’t know what else to do, other than defend. Question: the second part of the response you put for me with the stapler example, you said, “I did not steal the stapler from your desk.” That would still be me defending? That’s all I want to do I say, no I didn’t do those things that she is accusing me of.

Originally Posted by kml
Your girlfriend is suffering from a postpartum mental illness - you need to speak with her doctors. Some women can suffer crippling anxiety or OCD in the postpartum period, akin to postpartum depression of postpartum psychosis. She needs help.

As for validation - it’s not about not defending yourself. It’s about hearing what your daughter is telling you and acknowledging her feelings. You have to get out of your defensive posture to do that.

You can validate without acknowledging wrongdoing.
2 things here. You truly believe that it’s post partum depression? If so, I how do I say that to her without upsetting her. She is a very sensitive person.
Second can you give me and example. How should I respond to say something like this?
“Dad I have always been afraid of you and I never wanted to be with you.”
Just so you all know, not even close to being true. My d and I did so many things together. I have a million pictures of us together. I even have to defend myself here when I use that example. I just hate the picture she tries to paint of me.

Originally Posted by Ginger1
I wouldn’t doubt watching What’s happening between your kids and your ex is causing her to hold on super tight.

You are probably right!!

Dawn, I know it came across that way. I am just so frustrated, with everything in my life. I try so hard to make the people I love happy. I know I AM NOT PERFECT, I just don’t like drama, I don’t want drama, and I certainly want my d back in my life. It just hurts so much what my d says about me. I leave those sessions crying sometimes, thinking what happened to my baby girl? I just feel so eaten down that I always feel a need to defend now. It’s not right, I know and I am sorry to everyone on here.

I have to run, I will get to everyone else’s comments, I do t want anyone to think I am leaving g them out. Thanks again. I will be back on shortly to get to those other comments. Again I appreciate everyone sticking with me.


M:42 XW:41
T:19 M: 15
D:13 S:10
BD: 8/10/18
Moved out: 8/18
Moved in: 9/18/18
Moved out: 4/22/19
D papers signed 11/4/19
D final 3/18/20
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 4,429
Likes: 54
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 4,429
Likes: 54
Originally Posted by Wolfman
I am certainly not going to sit back when someone attacks my character.
Why? I related recently an incident where I slowly convinced someone who was drunk to NOT drive home, and simultaneously a guy with anger issues followed us shouting and cursing. I didn't particularly care what he thought of me or the drunk--all he was to me was a potential threat to be aware of and possibly neutralize if he became physically aggressive. One's quickness to engage is distinct from one's ability to engage--consider the teachings of martial arts masters. What causes you to engage? Arguing with Mr. Anger Issues wasn't likely to change his opinion. Getting into a verbal or physical altercation wasn't likely to improve any of our lives. How has "not sitting back" served you? Like many defense mechanisms, maybe you needed that behavior at some point in your life. You can leave behind behaviors that no longer serve you.



Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,577
Likes: 221
K
kml Offline
Member
Offline
Member
K
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,577
Likes: 221
Quote
You truly believe that it’s post partum depression? If so, I how do I say that to her without upsetting her. She is a very sensitive person.

It sounds like bad postpartum anxiety which can overlap with postpartum depression and sometimes progress to OCD or, rarely, psychosis. You might try speaking with her physician first - they cannot tell you things about her without her permission, but you CAN tell them what you're seeing and your concerns about it. You can also try gently mentioning to her that you think she may be experiencing some postpartum issues and perhaps she could speak to her doctor about it? Of course, telling women their hormones are off is dangerous ground for a man! Does she have a sister or mom that you could approach about this? Maybe coming from another woman she could hear it better? I have a good friend who had such bad postpartum anxiety that she never wanted to have another child. She was terrified she might accidentally hurt her child, or something awful might happen. I never knew the depths of her disordered thinking at that time until recently - this occurred 30 years ago.

Quote
Second can you give me and example. How should I respond to say something like this?
“Dad I have always been afraid of you and I never wanted to be with you.”

I'm so sorry you felt that way. I love you with all my heart and I never wanted anything but your happiness and safety. "

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 8,156
Likes: 130
L
Member
Online
Member
L
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 8,156
Likes: 130
Originally Posted by Wolfman
That’s all I want to do I say, no I didn’t do those things that she is accusing me of.
I would have to know what you are being accused of. Was it specific actions or how you made her feel?


M:51 W:46
T:22 M:16
S:15 D:11

�Happiness equals reality minus expectations�- Magliozzi
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 641
W
Wolfman Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
W
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 641
Originally Posted by Ginger1
I agree KML, but I think it’s seriously being exacerbated around the situation going on with her baby daddy. I don’t think it’s all irrational. I’m pretty sure she is scared as sh!t

Unfortunately, things going on around me definitely don’t help the situation, at all.

CW you are right I have trouble figuring out when and how to use validation. Thank you for the 3 case examples. I am trying, I not I am not doing well with the validation, I will continue using to work on that.
Originally Posted by kml
Quote
You truly believe that it’s post partum depression? If so, I how do I say that to her without upsetting her. She is a very sensitive person.

It sounds like bad postpartum anxiety which can overlap with postpartum depression and sometimes progress to OCD or, rarely, psychosis. You might try speaking with her physician first - they cannot tell you things about her without her permission, but you CAN tell them what you're seeing and your concerns about it. You can also try gently mentioning to her that you think she may be experiencing some postpartum issues and perhaps she could speak to her doctor about it? Of course, telling women their hormones are off is dangerous ground for a man! Does she have a sister or mom that you could approach about this? Maybe coming from another woman she could hear it better? I have a good friend who had such bad postpartum anxiety that she never wanted to have another child. She was terrified she might accidentally hurt her child, or something awful might happen. I never knew the depths of her disordered thinking at that time until recently - this occurred 30 years ago.

Quote
Second can you give me and example. How should I respond to say something like this?
“Dad I have always been afraid of you and I never wanted to be with you.”

I'm so sorry you felt that way. I love you with all my heart and I never wanted anything but your happiness and safety. "

Ugh. What else can I stack on my plate?? When does this end? I am just so mentally exhausted. I will take your advice and get her help. Unfortunately she is not close to her mom or sister. So I can’t use them. I am on my own with this. This should be real fun. I need to get this taken care of. She is having a hard time with having to move the baby to his own room and in his crib because he is starting to outgrow the bassinet and it’s in our room. I am trying to validate and understand it’s hard for her to separate. Thank you for the example how to answer my daughter. Still have a lot of work in that area.

Sorry I have to run again. I’ll be back on shortly. Thank you everyone. LH. I will give an example when I come back.


M:42 XW:41
T:19 M: 15
D:13 S:10
BD: 8/10/18
Moved out: 8/18
Moved in: 9/18/18
Moved out: 4/22/19
D papers signed 11/4/19
D final 3/18/20
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 641
W
Wolfman Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
W
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 641
Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by Wolfman
That’s all I want to do I say, no I didn’t do those things that she is accusing me of.
I would have to know what you are being accused of. Was it specific actions or how you made her feel?
That she was never happy when she was with me. I have tons of pictures of so many things we did together having a good time.
Another that she doesn’t want to talk to me on the phone all the time. Yet, she the. Complained when she took a cruise with her mom I didn’t call her on the cruise. Huh?? So which is it? Claimed I was shoving my gf down her throat. Yet then complained that she really doesn’t know my gf?
When she was a little girl I would force her to go to the playground. That I wanted her to go when she was like 5-9 years old. We lived across the street from the elementary school so it was right in my “front yard”. She was asking me all the time to take her when she was little. Hope those help for examples.


M:42 XW:41
T:19 M: 15
D:13 S:10
BD: 8/10/18
Moved out: 8/18
Moved in: 9/18/18
Moved out: 4/22/19
D papers signed 11/4/19
D final 3/18/20
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,286
Likes: 65
D
Member
Online
Member
D
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,286
Likes: 65
I may be way off base here, but I had and survived 3 teenage daughters and this kind of stuff was typical for my girls at a certain age. One minute they would be saying they didn't eat breakfast so I was wasting my time cooking it for them and the next minute they were complaining I wasn't cooking them breakfast and they were "starving". Kids are kids are kids. Your situation is, of course, exacerbated by all the drama surrounding it, but you have to do your best to listen to what your D is saying to you and then validate it. Again, as many have pointed out, that doesn't mean taking blame for anything or admitting that you are doing anything wrong, but more just that you are actively listening to what she is saying. I can pretty much guarantee you that you will never "win" the girlfriend argument so your best bet there is to just listen to what d says and if she says you are shoving gf down her throat, tell her you are sorry she feels that way and ask what you can do to make it better. If she says she doesn't know your gf, ask her if she'd like to and how you might go about making that happen.

You have to go into adult active listening mode, not defensive the world is against me mode. Think about it like this.....you have been saying parental alienation all along and have been fighting to get others to agree with you and see it that way. If that is, in fact, what is going on, can you step outside of yourself for a minute and see how that puts your d in a bad situation if her mother is manipulating her?

She said she was never happy with you and you say you have tons of pics of y'all having a good time. That proves NOTHING. I have a ton of pics of me and my XH together, smiling, looking like we were having fun, just a month or so prior to our split. This is another time when you have to LISTEN to what she's saying and stop trying to prove that what she's saying is wrong. Ask her why she was unhappy, what made her unhappy, how you can help her find happiness. In short, make it all about her and helping her. You are the adult and you will have to compromise, but really digging in and listening to her and trying to see things from her perspective will go a long way to rebuilding your relationship.


Me 52, H53
Bomb drop 9/29/2014
Divorce from XH final 12/17/2014
Marriage #2 12/31/2019
5 adult (step)daughters (3 from XH's first marriage, 2 from current H's previous relationships)
6 grandkids
Page 5 of 11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 10 11

Moderated by  Cadet, job, Virginia 

Link Copied to Clipboard