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LH19 #2926349 11/15/21 04:08 AM
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Originally Posted by LH19
So early on in my situation my ex and I separated for 3 months. We still went out on dates, had sex and she would talk about the future like fixing up the house etc. Looking back at it I can she was trying living alone on for size. We did get back together for a year and a half until om2 came along. I will say again you have a good chance here IMO but I get the impression from your posts that you are clingy and needy. Initially she is going to to enjoy being away from you and this could drag on for awhile. Again what you want is for her to not be sure where she stands with you.

Interesting insight. I didn’t know that about your situation. How did you feel during thev3 months? After? We’re you blind sided by OM2? Did you make changes during that time? Did she?

We actually lived apart for our first year of marriage due to us finishing our respective graduate degrees. Seems like a lifetime ago.


Interesting on your observation about me being clingy and needy. We had this very discussion with put MC. She said I was the opposite of needy. I get that is one opinion and I’m not saying you are wrong.

I think I do feel needy. One thing that was brought up in MC is my not asking for what I need. Like I wouldn’t ask my wife if she wanted to watch a movie, I wouldn’t ask my wife to put down her phone during a conversation, I wouldn’t ask her to take a walk Or wouldn’t necessarily initiate physical contact. I would instead get mad that she wouldn’t do those things on her own or know I needed them.

My wife and MC told me I need to ask for those things -explicitly. But now I feel if I do I be pathetic and it’s counter to the ideas here.

SteveLW #2926350 11/15/21 04:17 AM
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Originally Posted by SteveLW
McRamone, obviously I'm not helping here. You seem perturbed by my observations. And I'm not sure you are open to the ideas presented here. For instance, you question her being a walkaway..... Even though she's pushing for a separation. One thing someone told me early on in my sitch has always stuck with me. Wives do not need their own place to find themselves or to.work on the marriage. They need their own place to sleep with other men.

Good luck. I sincerely hope it all works out for you. That's why I post here to other LBSs. But I do think you are being a bit obtuse. Maybe it is because the truth is too hard to face? My final thought for you to mull over.

I’m sorry you feel that way. I get that you only see things a certain way and are trying to help people. But you are only focusing on one thing. You may say I’m ignoring the one thing.

I’m not sure where you get I’m not open to ideas. I am taking the GAL to heart, I am following Sandi’s rules, I am taking what people are saying. I read DB. I have not begged her not to move out, I haven’t pleaded with her or even tried to reason with her. Not sure what more you want me to do.

But yes. If you are going to insult me and my partner instead of helping. There are plenty of other good folks here.

Last edited by McRamone; 11/15/21 04:27 AM.
McRamone #2926353 11/15/21 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by McRamone
[quote=LH19]

So early on in my situation my ex and I separated for 3 months. We still went out on dates, had sex and she would talk about the future like fixing up the house etc. Looking back at it I can she was trying living alone on for size. We did get back together for a year and a half until om2 came along. I will say again you have a good chance here IMO but I get the impression from your posts that you are clingy and needy. Initially she is going to to enjoy being away from you and this could drag on for awhile. Again what you want is for her to not be sure where she stands with you.

Originally Posted by McRamone
How did you feel during thev3 months?
Like my entire world had been torn apart and I was about to lose everything I had worked for in life.
Originally Posted by McRamone
After?
The year and a half $ucked. I could tell she always had one foot out the door. My saving grace was I had my kids to focus on.
Originally Posted by McRamone
We’re you blind sided by OM2?
No. She wasn't very sly. My daughter's friend with the single good looking dad all of a sudden became her favorite of my daughter's friends.
Originally Posted by McRamone
Did you make changes during that time?
Yep. I followed the DB principles and was really good at it. Also read just about every book on attraction and relationship I could get my hands on.
Originally Posted by McRamone
Did she?
Oh she changed alright. Decided now was "her" time and she needed to do what was right for her.
Originally Posted by McRamone
Interesting on your observation about me being clingy and needy. We had this very discussion with put MC. She said I was the opposite of needy. I get that is one opinion and I’m not saying you are wrong.
So here is a quote directly from you in your thread. "So this created a bad dynamic. I was looking for reassurances in my love language (touch) did she wanted to be in a marriage that she still cared and she remorseful. She did that for a little bit but thought that I wasn’t responding to it so decided to not continue it. Then I’d get upset she was pulling away when I needed her more."
Originally Posted by McRamone
I think I do feel needy. One thing that was brought up in MC is my not asking for what I need. Like I wouldn’t ask my wife if she wanted to watch a movie, I wouldn’t ask my wife to put down her phone during a conversation, I wouldn’t ask her to take a walk Or wouldn’t necessarily initiate physical contact. I would instead get mad that she wouldn’t do those things on her own or know I needed them.
So this is interesting because you also quoted this in your thread when Steve suggest you had NGS. " I also disagree about me trying to please here. I do thing mostly because I want (for example I like cooking dinner for the boys and always have before this current mess) or need to. I read the Nice Guy book years ago. He has some good ideas but unfortunately it gets lost in his presentation. IMO Also. I have no trouble asking for what I need."
Originally Posted by McRamone
My wife and MC told me I need to ask for those things -explicitly. But now I feel if I do I be pathetic and it’s counter to the ideas here.
So what types of things do you want to ask her right now?


M:51 W:46
T:22 M:16
S:15 D:11

�Happiness equals reality minus expectations�- Magliozzi
LH19 #2926354 11/15/21 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by McRamone
I think I do feel needy. One thing that was brought up in MC is my not asking for what I need. Like I wouldn’t ask my wife if she wanted to watch a movie, I wouldn’t ask my wife to put down her phone during a conversation, I wouldn’t ask her to take a walk Or wouldn’t necessarily initiate physical contact. I would instead get mad that she wouldn’t do those things on her own or know I needed them.
Originally Posted by LH21
So this is interesting because you also quoted this in your thread when Steve suggest you had NGS. " I also disagree about me trying to please here. I do thing mostly because I want (for example I like cooking dinner for the boys and always have before this current mess) or need to. I read the Nice Guy book years ago. He has some good ideas but unfortunately it gets lost in his presentation. IMO Also. I have no trouble asking for what I need."

Observed the same.
What you wrote MR is basically the definition of a "covert contract" so that should be a reason to at least revisit "No More Mr NG". There is even a podcast on CCs that you could listen to.


Me: 34
Stbxw: 30
D:5 D:3
Mini bd: May/June 2019
Married: Aug 2019
BD: 6th Dec 2019
OM Confirmed: Feb 2020
March 2020: I filed for D
Waiting for D to be finalized and W to move out end of January 2021
LH19 #2926355 11/15/21 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by McRamone
So this is interesting because you also quoted this in your thread when Steve suggest you had NGS. " I also disagree about me trying to please her. I do thing mostly because I want (for example I like cooking dinner for the boys and always have before this current mess) or need to. I read the Nice Guy book years ago. He has some good ideas but unfortunately it gets lost in his presentation. IMO Also. I have no trouble asking for what I need."

2 things can be true. I don't do things to please her. I make dinner 3-5X a week. Why? I like to cook and I'm pretty good at it. I'm the more involved parent with school. Why? She had a job where she had to go in everyday during the height of covid and I have some flexibility to help with their schooling. I do my own laundry. Why? I need clean clothes. I clean up the kitchen and doing the dishes. Why? I like clean kitchen. So yes a lot of what I do is not to please her.


yet, I am not perfect and we are (were) in a relationship so there is some give and take. What I do, do is give her time to decompress after work without hovering over her.

Also, I have told her in the past explicitly what I need - 1 one 1 time, sex, physical touch, going for a walk, etc. The question always boils down to what I need in the moment.


I guess I should be clear - when I said I had no trouble asking for what I need- I meant outside of the marriage, n other social settings, work, etc.

Not going to read that "Mr. NG" book again. (it's not DB) Glover's work is not peer reviewed, not researched and no basis in actual psychology. My impression of him is too tainted.

I watched the video someone posted here about marrying the wrong person. That was very insightful.

Originally Posted by McRamone
My wife and MC told me I need to ask for those things -explicitly. But now I feel if I do I be pathetic and it’s counter to the ideas here.
So what types of things do you want to ask her right now?

Ask her for what I need in the moment. It can as small as a hug. (I really cringe at this) or bigger like having a nice dinner out.

McRamone #2926356 11/15/21 03:20 PM
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For now Mac I would table the things you need from her and focus on you and the kids.

You want to give her as much space as possible right now.


M:51 W:46
T:22 M:16
S:15 D:11

�Happiness equals reality minus expectations�- Magliozzi
LH19 #2926357 11/15/21 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by LH19
For now Mac I would table the things you need from her and focus on you and the kids.

You want to give her as much space as possible right now.

That is one of her main complaints that I don't do that. I can't tell if it's a 180 to do that or not.


-------------------

Journaling....

Well it happened. She left last night to go to her new apt. it was not unexpected but it was difficult. She initially only brought enough clothes for a few days while we figure out logistics. Normally, I'd try to read into this...but not this time.


We had a small talk before she left. She said this was very hard on her. I said that I understand that it must be really hard to feel like you have to make that decision. She reiterated that she loved me and though this would help a lot. I didn't agree or disagree just basically said that I want the best outcome(I don't know if this was the right thing to say)

There was no begging, no pleading. I was very calm and collected. But it stung like a B.

I really wanted to text her later in the night but resisted and she didn't reach out to me. So it begins.

I didn't sleep well and my mind raced. I felt like all the worst stuff was happening. Like she immediately hooked up with some rando.

She wants me to come over to see the place tonight. I don't know how I feel about that.

It [censored] because I want to try to stay positive, but everyone says don't focus on that. Instead focus on yourself. I can only distract myself so much.

Last edited by McRamone; 11/15/21 03:39 PM.
McRamone #2926358 11/15/21 04:00 PM
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McRamone,
Originally Posted by McRamone
Well it happened. She left last night to go to her new apt. it was not unexpected but it was difficult.
Sorry man. That's tough. Even though you know it's coming, it's hard.

Originally Posted by McRamone
She said this was very hard on her.
It probably was. My ExW made it seem easy at times, whereas I was visably struggling, but then I'd get insights here that it was a lot tougher on her than she showed. Didn't change the result for me/us, but I don't know maybe there's a bit of solace knowing it's not so easy on the other end either.

Originally Posted by McRamone
I said that I understand that it must be really hard to feel like you have to make that decision. She reiterated that she loved me and though this would help a lot. I didn't agree or disagree just basically said that I want the best outcome(I don't know if this was the right thing to say)

There was no begging, no pleading. I was very calm and collected. But it stung like a B.
Sounds like you handled it fairly well considering. Stayed fairly strong on the outside, even if it hurt underneath.

Originally Posted by McRamone
I really wanted to text her later in the night but resisted and she didn't reach out to me. So it begins.
Good job resisting. Keep it up. If you reach out you'll attach a glimmer of hope to it and then come down when you don't get the response you want.

Originally Posted by McRamone
I didn't sleep well and my mind raced. I felt like all the worst stuff was happening. Like she immediately hooked up with some rando.
That's understandable. It'll get better over time.

Hate to say this, but it's quite possible it won't be some rando and it's the guy you knew about before or some other person she has waiting in the wings. Some here will say don't snoop, or at least stop snooping when you find evidence of and affair. I don't know the laws where you are, but have you thought about a PI or some sort of proof to see if there's an active affair?

Originally Posted by McRamone
She wants me to come over to see the place tonight. I don't know how I feel about that.
I wouldn't. Will that help your detachment? It's not your responsibility to make her feel better/comfortable with leaving you.

Originally Posted by McRamone
It [censored] because I want to try to stay positive, but everyone says don't focus on that. Instead focus on yourself. I can only distract myself so much.
Easier said than done, but yes...focus on yourself and the kids as much as possible. Doing GAL/getting active, which sounds like you do fairly well, will help keep your mind off it.

Originally Posted by BL42
If your two sons are teens and your W plans to move out this week, have either or both of you communicated that to them? If so, what did you say and how did they react?

You said your W has a place...is she renting an apartment, staying with family/friends?

Your an L and have consulted with a family law L in town...what impacts do her moving out without a formal separation agreement have? Are your sons staying with you 100%, or going back and forth?
I asked you about your sons before but not sure you answered. How are they doing with all this? What's the plan there? I assume if she moved out you talked with them? Are they staying in the house, or swapping back and forth?


Me:39 Ex-W:37
M:7 T: 9
S:6 D:3
BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20
OM1 affair ends: May '20
W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20
W files for D: Jul20
OM2 confirmed: 9/2020
Divorced: May '21
McRamone #2926359 11/15/21 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by McRamone
[quote=LH19]For now Mac I would table the things you need from her and focus on you and the kids.

You want to give her as much space as possible right now.

Originally Posted by McRamone
That is one of her main complaints that I don't do that. I can't tell if it's a 180 to do that or not.
I want to clarify, her main complaint is you give her too much space?
Originally Posted by McRamone
Well it happened. She left last night to go to her new apt. it was not unexpected but it was difficult.
M it is understandably difficult and I am sorry you are going through this right now.
Originally Posted by McRamone
She initially only brought enough clothes for a few days while we figure out logistics. Normally, I'd try to read into this...but not this time.
Nothing to see here. The gun just went off for the marathon.
Originally Posted by McRamone
We had a small talk before she left. She said this was very hard on her. I said that I understand that it must be really hard to feel like you have to make that decision.
So this is where you have to be careful. Your response can be construed as a guilt trip. A better response is "I understand this is difficult on you". No implying this is her decision.
Originally Posted by McRamone
I didn't agree or disagree just basically said that I want the best outcome(I don't know if this was the right thing to say)
Depends. What if she thinks the best outcome is divorce?
Originally Posted by McRamone
There was no begging, no pleading. I was very calm and collected. But it stung like a B.
Good. Yeah it's tough.
Originally Posted by McRamone
I really wanted to text her later in the night but resisted and she didn't reach out to me. So it begins.
Contacting her and pursuing her is the same challenge people face if they're trying to quit smoking and sitting in front of a table covered in cigarettes. It's just so easy to do. You know you shouldn't, you know it isn't good for you, but you want to *so badly* that you can convince yourself that it's okay to pursue.

That's what the "my giving her space is allowing her to get over me" argument really is, it's your brain trying to convince you that it's okay to pursue her because that's what you really, really, really want to do.

Originally Posted by McRamone
I didn't sleep well and my mind raced. I felt like all the worst stuff was happening. Like she immediately hooked up with some rando.

Highly doubt that's the case. You will experience catastrophic thinking for awhile.
Originally Posted by McRamone
She wants me to come over to see the place tonight. I don't know how I feel about that.
I would politely decline and tell her you have plans.
Originally Posted by McRamone
It [censored] because I want to try to stay positive, but everyone says don't focus on that.
Who is telling you not to stay positive?
Originally Posted by McRamone
Instead focus on yourself. I can only distract myself so much.
Kids, gym, walks, runs, hobbies, friends, family, NETFLIX, volunteer the list goes on and on.


M:51 W:46
T:22 M:16
S:15 D:11

�Happiness equals reality minus expectations�- Magliozzi
LH19 #2926360 11/15/21 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by McRamone
It [censored] because I want to try to stay positive, but everyone says don't focus on that.
Who is telling you not to stay positive?

I wasn't complete in my thought. I mean everyone says don't focus on the positive statements she makes like 'I don't' want to be divorced," "We can have a better M," "I love you"

I know to stay positive. I should have written I want to try to read positivity into what she is saying.


Originally Posted by LH19
I want to clarify, her main complaint is you give her too much space?
Her main complaint is that I don't articulate what I need from her. Or I make assumptions about how much space she needs (obviously before the move)


Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by McRamone
I didn't sleep well and my mind raced. I felt like all the worst stuff was happening. Like she immediately hooked up with some rando.

Highly doubt that's the case. You will experience catastrophic thinking for awhile


Depends on you who you talk to here.

Last edited by McRamone; 11/15/21 04:36 PM.
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