New here.

[McRamone]

I know I'm on moderation and it's no fun

. Moderators are volunteers. Just be patient and keep posting. You will be off moderation soon.

YUP - and I have already asked for you to be released as I will be away for the weekend so I am hoping the administrator gets to that as it is out of my control now.

Thank you!!. Regardless it is appreciated

[LH19]

M,

You get lots of different advice on this board. Some people give cookie cutter advice based on MWD's book. I tend to give advice based on the situation. Your situations as I said seems to be different and your W doesn't have two feet out the door. That's why in your case IMO MC is a good idea as long as you feel she is working on repairing the marriage. If you sense she is just going through the motions to check the "we tried MC box" then its best to terminate the sessions.

Having said all that separation and affairs are typically a stepping stone to divorce so how you handle the separation IMO is going to be crucial. As for accepting dates I would say you should accept some and decline some stating you are sorry you have plans. You want her to wonder where you stand.

Relationship and attraction are about value. People who jump through hoops for you are not valuable and are therefore not attractive. You value people who are confident and self-sufficient, and that you feel you need to work to get. When you get attention from those people you feel good about yourself.

[Traveler]

What if she wants to talk...which she does. Just say no. Same goes for the separation. I guess

If she wants to talk, say no?! That would be AGGRESSIVE--controlling her. If she wants to talk, let her. There's a thread here on active listening and validation. There's also a short video by Brene Brown on Empathy. These are great ways to build rapport. "I get you're angry about that." "I understand you'd like to continue to see the dog even after we separate." She probably does this all day as a therapist, lol. Skip making any commitments or emoting. You can do that another day when you're well-rested and have had time to reflect on what she's said and perhaps pass it by the board if you're uncertain.

She's separating NOT Divorcing. I know everyone here sees a nail, but this situation is entirely different.

I don't see a nail at all. My situation (separated long-term GF) and Steve's situation (wife) both ended in reconciliation. Setting healthy boundaries and self-differentiation were important steps.

[Traveler]

MC is a good idea as long as you feel she is working on repairing the marriage. If you sense she is just going through the motions to check the "we tried MC box" then its best to terminate the sessions.

During the, "I love you, but I need time apart" period we went to MC. During that series of visits, she vented about my past wrongs, and I had few opportunities to speak. When the MC gave advice that involved returning, she'd disagree or agree then change her mind after the session. When the MC gave advice about separating, she'd readily agree and adopt it. That MC was a useless experience from the purpose of R, and our eventual reconciliation came long after we stopped MC.

Our second round of MC was after she committed to the relationship again. We both talked and listened about problems we were each facing and tried to work towards common solutions.

The general advice is that MC is useful if and only if she's committed to the relationship. Is her focus on venting or getting to happy? Is a fair percentage of the session focused on what she's doing wrong and is she making changes to address those? Does she jump on advice that's pro-marriage or jump on advice that's anti-marriage? You're there. These are some factors to consider in whether continued MC would be more helpful or a waste of effort to harmful to your relationship.

If you have anger to work through about the affair, IC can help. Terms you set after her unfaithfulness should be about self-protection, trust, and respect--not a way to lash out in anger.

[McRamone]

Our second round of MC was after she committed to the relationship again. We both talked and listened about problems we were each facing and tried to work towards common solutions.

The general advice is that MC is useful if and only if she's committed to the relationship. Is her focus on venting or getting to happy? Is a fair percentage of the session focused on what she's doing wrong and is she making changes to address those? Does she jump on advice that's pro-marriage or jump on advice that's anti-marriage? You're there. These are some factors to consider in whether continued MC would be more helpful or a waste of effort to harmful to your relationship.

Great food for thought. Unfortunately, I see a little bit of both. I do sense that I am being hammered by the MC and my wife more than she it. We tend to talk about what I'm doing wrong because I have been resistant to the ideas.

In her mind, she's committed and is making changes. But they aren't always in a way that I see them. Then she gets frustrated.

The hard part is that since my wife is in the mental health field her and the MC get along well and talk about other aspects of the field.

I'm not sure what you mean by anti-marriage advice. Can you give examples? the MC certainly doesn't encourage the 'you need to be happy' at whatever the cost type of advice.

[SteveLW]

McRamone, do not confuse a WAS wanting to do MC with a that wants to reconcile. I gave you reasons that WAS will agree or even suggest MC. No WAW that wants to separate is trying to reconcile even if it's their idea to do MC.

I think your biggest issue is trying to decide what to do based on what is likely to please her. That is a recipe for disaster. You go live your life, and be busy GAL. If she wants a date night, go sometimes, other times be busy. Stop worrying so much and her and what action is "best". That's likely how you got into this situation. And it is yet another sign of Nice Guy Syndrome. "If I agree to x then she will like me!" Liking you and respecting you are different animals. Go for respect first

[SteveLW]

On her feelings of privacy. I get that you think it's rubbish steve, but if I say that to her ...is that me dismissing her feelings about it? And these feelings are from way before the 'incident" Some of which I contributed to.

I never said to say it to her. In fact I think I specifically said I'm not saying to say it to her. But yes it is rubbish for anyone to suggest snooping on your spouse is worse than cheating on them. Or on the same level. Or even remotely in the same ballpark!!

[may22]

Hi McRamone,

My two cents-- I would keep with the MC. What's the down side? She says she wants to do it. I think the biggest reason people recommend against it if both parties don't have the same goal in mind (a stronger M) is that it sets up false hope/expectations for the LBS. I think as long as you can keep your expectations in check, there isn't a down side to MC for you. You will have to know, though, that there is a decent chance she's pursuing this so that she can check the box of "we tried everything." (I guess I don't think that is the end of the world, anyway. If she wants to D, she'll D you, regardless... it just helps soothe her guilt. Though on the other side, you refusing MC also helps soothe her guilt, so you're kind of in a no-win situation.) Just keep a close eye on how you feel and your own boundaries. For instance, perhaps a boundary for you would be switching the conversation thread in MC from "how can we make this work" to "what would a D look like for us"-- this was a boundary for me generally, not talking with my H about his fantasy D scenarios.

Going on weekly dates with her-- again, what's the harm as long as you don't have any expectations? If you can't control your expectations, then I would avoid, or at least avoid some, like if you are really nervous or notice that you are starting to have expectations around an upcoming date. Just don't imagine that she's going to suddenly fall back in love with you through a few dates.

In/re parameters around her moving out-- she said she wants to and has figured it all out, right? Okay! I think here you go with the flow. As everyone above has said, you can't control what she does anyway. I would also think that her background has something to do with her direction here and maybe she is not a typical WW just looking for an excuse to chase the highs of her infatuation/AP. My understanding is that a structured separation where each party agrees not to date other people, to stay in MC, and to have weekly 1-1 time is a pretty standard approach when the emotions of one or both people are running so high that it makes working on the R when living together impossible. Again, to me this goes back to managing expectations. You want to stand for the M-- don't date. But don't expect her to hold to the same rules. She may, she may not and you have to be okay with that. She may use up all her free time texting with her previous friend or finding another one. (This, by the way, was why i refused to a structured separation with my H, who wanted to live in the basement for 3 months and then see where we were. To me, I knew there was zero chance he wouldn't be in touch with his AP during that time, and I had a hard boundary around him actually leaving-- that would have been it for me.) You need to do some hard thinking about what you are okay with and what you're not okay with. For instance, if you find out it was a physical A-- would that change things for you? If she says she isn't going to date and then does during this S, how will you feel?

In the end, this S may be the first step towards D and you'll never live under the same roof again-- but you are going to have to learn to be okay with that since there is nothing you can do. Her choices. You control you-- so my advice here would be work as hard as you can on detaching, keep up the GAL, and work on understanding that you're going to be okay no matter what happens. Releasing the pressure on her should help a lot. If she is parsing out everything you say to the degree you're indicating like with the comments regarding whether or not you were truly supportive of her moving out, you probably will benefit a lot by having some time apart from each other.

Hang in there. I think you are in pretty good shape, TBH.

[Ready2Change]

You get lots of different advice on this board. Some people give cookie cutter advice based on MWD's book. I tend to give advice based on the situation.

LH19 has a great skill at remembering all the details about a poster.

I tend to remember the big picture items like : You are new here and on moderation. You are the lawyer about my age. Your W is in the mental health field. You have two children, but did not tell us their ages or what the parenting arrangements will look like. Your wife is moving out. You want to attract her back. You don't know how.

I then focus on the things that stands out to me in the last post.

So here, the words in bold stand out to me as areas you can reflect on and give my 2 cents:

I do sense that I am being hammered by the MC and my wife more than she is. We tend to talk about what I'm doing wrong because I have been resistant to the ideas.

Are you doing something wrong? Or maybe that is just her opinion. Why are you resistant? Maybe resistance is the proper thing.

In her mind, she's committed and is making changes. But they aren't always in a way that I see them. Then she gets frustrated.

Sounds Like you are a good listener and understand how she is feeling at that moment. In your mind is it OK for her to be frustrated? Do you accept her frustration?

[BL42]

McRamone,

If your two sons are teens and your W plans to move out this week, have either or both of you communicated that to them? If so, what did you say and how did they react?

You said your W has a place...is she renting an apartment, staying with family/friends?

Your an L and have consulted with a family law L in town...what impacts do her moving out without a formal separation agreement have? Are your sons staying with you 100%, or going back and forth?

I am an L. My wife is a psychiatrist.

This will be interesting. We typically(99%) recommend getting legal advise and getting into IC.

I had the same thought.

But wouldn't the same also apply to parameters on living apart? I was not the one saying 3 months - she was.

That's ok. Just don't try to hold her to it. It it turns into 4,5,6 it doesn't matter because you are too busy kicking a$$ with life and figuring out what you want moving forward.

To me the thing about the "3 months" is your expectations, as you have absolutely no control over it. It's quite possible she's telling you "it's only 3 months" and "it's a separation, not a D" to soften the blow, and it's quite possible the 3 months turns into 6 month or a year or a D. To LH's point, make sure you're not hung up on the timeline sitting at home checking days off on a calendar and don't let it become a set back if after 3 months she says 6 months or D...go out and use that time to improve yourself and live life to its fullest.

This is already being done. I do yoga 2x week, I ride my bike 3Xweek, I’m getting my new treadmill soon. I to go IC. I have a couple of hobbies- cooking, collecting, etc. I go to concerts with friends (or myself). I am fully engaged with both sons (as much as the parent of teens can be.) Teaching my oldest how to drive (Watch out for that tree!)

This is all great stuff. It sounds like you're doing pretty well in this area already. Keep it up and put it in overdrive.

It does seem like your sitch is a bit different than others in that she was remorseful about the affair and may not be in a current one, you sound stronger than others and aren't begging and pleading, she's telling you she loves you and your family and just needs some space, she's pursuing MC and possibly dates(?). So I hope you're in a better situation than others. That said, lots of folks on here claim their sitch is different and then it isn't, so the key is to not pressure her and instead focus on you and your sons. Hope for the best but prep yourself for the worst.