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#2925691 10/28/21 01:03 AM
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Long story.
I was married for 18 years and together for 22 years. 2 sons aged 19 and 21.
I used to drink a fair bit and over the last 4-5 years started drinking more and would be angry (never violent) and never seemed happy.
Looking back at it I was potentially MLC ing myself. My 50th birthday came up in February this year and something in my head said time to change so I started enjoying life and generally being happier.
At the same time I started noticing my wife putting down her phone or turning it off when I entered the room. I challenged her and she said nothing was going on. I didn't believe it so started drinking more to hide from the fears.
In March she mentioned that she had been to see the doctor for womens problems and he diagnosed her as perimenopausal (starting in November). She laughed and said I'm going to be a b****h for the next 7 years.

In April I had enough of my suspicions and checked her phone.........My heart was ripped out ......."I love you" to another man.
She said it was only 2 kisses and after much forcing on my part she eventually defriended him and told him not to contact her.
I suggested counselling and the first session we went to she stated outright "I'm done and we won't be together anymore".
I started my own counselling and saw my doctor for help with my drinking and cut right back and realised it was an emotional crutch.

However I was so angry, hurt and betrayed and we had many arguments during this time.
"I know you're changing but it's too late for me"
"Why did it take for me to what I did before you got help?" (She had been begging me for years.)
"I love you but not in love with you"
"We are only friends" (Speaking about AP).
" I only kissed him twice"
"It was normal"
"I was only thinking of myself"
"Maybe I should have been more careful to not get caught"
"You made me do it"
"I need to find myself"
Fast forward....I left the house for a week to give her space......returning on the Sunday. She moved out that day (June) and it turns out it was the same day that our son had his first child. She rang and said do you want me to pick you up so we can see the grandbaby?

Really? You've just left me, the house and our family and you want me to go with you? BTW our 2 sons and their girlfriends live in our house.

She has written me a letter saying that she didn't like the person I had become and that is fair enough.
Also put in the letter that she still wants to be friends and can't come back because "Will he trust me again?" "Will he start drinking again?" "Will he check on me every time I go out?".

We have only caught up once and that was to discuss our son who is having depression. I have begged pleaded and got angry and made all the usual mistakes when someone first separates or finds out about an affair.
During this conversation she told me that she had spoken to AP twice........I felt like another knife had been plunged into my already dead heart.
I questioned her as to whether she was trying to tell me that they were back together or not.......All she would reply was "You wanted honesty......so we have spoken to each other twice." And eventually said no they aren't together.
BTW AP lives with his ex wife and has done so for 10 years.

I have done a lot of self reflection and am improving as a person and am trying to get her to open up to me like she did with her AP ("He listened to me and it was nice"). But no matter what I do it just doesn't seem to get through. If the topic ever comes up it's always the same "I'm not coming back".

I have said I want to support her as I know she is going through a tough time.
"Why would you want to support me after what I've done?"
"AP didn't break up our family, I did"
"Why would you want to support me when I don't want to be with you?"

Because I love you and you supported me for so many years.

She had been reaching out a couple of times a week to see how I am (It's pretty obvious that I am devastated) and when I have defriended her on Facebook she messages straight away asking why. I have now changed my interactions with her and a few times she has "thanked" me for making it easier to talk to me. She expects and probably is waiting for me to be angry........
1 That I'm not changing.
2. That my changes aren't genuine.
3. To validate her choice to have an affair, leave our house and walk away from the marriage.

However now no contact from her for 2 weeks.

She has started going out quite regularly with her "Gal Pals" who tell her she's got this and that sparks are just around the corner.
She has religiously paid a joint loan we have and is also paying for our health insurance (has not removed me for some reason).
Is worried that the boys won't talk to her when "she moves on".
Has most of her gear still at the house and when I offered her financial settlement it was ignored (and it was more than fair). She is living with mutual friends and unfortunately that has damaged my relationship with them.

I know it's been a long road for her to get to this point and know that "if" there is any possibility it would take a long time to resurrect.
I love this woman with all my heart but have no idea who she is or who she has become.

There is probably more and I may add to this later but I am at a complete loss.

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Welcome to the board

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htm

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!

Get out and Get a Life (GAL).

DETACH.

Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:

I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072

Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414

Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566

Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554

Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619

Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon


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Originally Posted by Galaga
Long story.
I was married for 18 years and together for 22 years. 2 sons aged 19 and 21.
I used to drink a fair bit and over the last 4-5 years started drinking more and would be angry (never violent) and never seemed happy.
Looking back at it I was potentially MLC ing myself. My 50th birthday came up in February this year and something in my head said time to change so I started enjoying life and generally being happier.

First welcome and sorry you are here and going through this! But you will find advice and support here.

As a former alcoholic, my first advice is to go dry, cold turkey. If you have trouble with that get into AA. My life is so much better now than it was when I was drinking! I have been sober for 27 years and will never allow myself to go back to being addicted ever again.

Originally Posted by Galaga
At the same time I started noticing my wife putting down her phone or turning it off when I entered the room. I challenged her and she said nothing was going on. I didn't believe it so started drinking more to hide from the fears.
In March she mentioned that she had been to see the doctor for womens problems and he diagnosed her as perimenopausal (starting in November). She laughed and said I'm going to be a b****h for the next 7 years.

Ah yes, classic signs of waywardness. Protective of phone, denials, and "oh I have this condition so get used to it!" pronouncements.

Originally Posted by Galaga
In April I had enough of my suspicions and checked her phone.........My heart was ripped out ......."I love you" to another man.
She said it was only 2 kisses and after much forcing on my part she eventually defriended him and told him not to contact her.

She's lying. When have you ever told someone you loved them after two kisses?

Originally Posted by Galaga
I suggested counselling and the first session we went to she stated outright "I'm done and we won't be together anymore".

Yep. MC is not a good idea with a spouse with one foot out the door. They will use to say "we tried everything" or to get you to accept the D.

Originally Posted by Galaga
I started my own counselling and saw my doctor for help with my drinking and cut right back and realised it was an emotional crutch.

AWESOME! Great move. Again, consider getting alcohol completely out of your life. You will be much better for it. DBing is hard, it is impossible when not in your right mind.

Originally Posted by Galaga
However I was so angry, hurt and betrayed and we had many arguments during this time.
"I know you're changing but it's too late for me"
"Why did it take for me to what I did before you got help?" (She had been begging me for years.)
"I love you but not in love with you"
"We are only friends" (Speaking about AP).
" I only kissed him twice"
"It was normal"
"I was only thinking of myself"
"Maybe I should have been more careful to not get caught"
"You made me do it"
"I need to find myself"

Learning to listen and validate would be a first 180! It will change your interactions with her.


Originally Posted by Galaga
Fast forward....I left the house for a week to give her space......returning on the Sunday. She moved out that day (June) and it turns out it was the same day that our son had his first child. She rang and said do you want me to pick you up so we can see the grandbaby?

Really? You've just left me, the house and our family and you want me to go with you? BTW our 2 sons and their girlfriends live in our house.

Yep, classic cake eating. "I want to leave you, sleep with other men, but play happy family when I w

Originally Posted by Galaga
She has written me a letter saying that she didn't like the person I had become and that is fair enough.

This is more than most LBSs get. Most get a "I want a D" and that is it. Maybe some token things. I heard "You are mean." But mostly that it wasn't me, it was her. Certainly most get nothing in writing even if they ask for it.

Originally Posted by Galaga
Also put in the letter that she still wants to be friends and can't come back because "Will he trust me again?" "Will he start drinking again?" "Will he check on me every time I go out?".

This is an excuse. What she is really saying here is that she can't trust you not to snoop on her. I was told in my sitch when my wife's plan was to move out, get an apartment and get a job, is that a woman doesn't need her own place to find herself or work on the marriage, she needs her own place to sleep with other people. I know this is not what you want to hear, but that last peace about you checking up on her means that she wants to be free to do what she wants. Only people that have something to hide, try to hide things.

Originally Posted by Galaga
We have only caught up once and that was to discuss our son who is having depression. I have begged pleaded and got angry and made all the usual mistakes when someone first separates or finds out about an affair.

We've all been there. However, what is important is what you do from this point forward, not what you've done previously.

Originally Posted by Galaga
During this conversation she told me that she had spoken to AP twice........I felt like another knife had been plunged into my already dead heart.

Trust me, if she admits that much then their contact has been much more. My W's EAP was only a "friend". (He lived several states away.) And then I found the nude photos she had texted him. There is always more than they are willing to admit. Partly because they don't like to admit to icky behavior, part to spare you feelings.

Originally Posted by Galaga
I questioned her as to whether she was trying to tell me that they were back together or not.......All she would reply was "You wanted honesty......so we have spoken to each other twice." And eventually said no they aren't together.
BTW AP lives with his ex wife and has done so for 10 years.

One thing about lying cheaters is that they will lie and cheat until hard evidence is presented. And you cannot believe ANYTHING she says, so stop talking to her about things you cannot trust she will give you the truth. Words are meaningless. Even if she was saying the right things, she cheated and left you. Actions are truth, words are not.

Originally Posted by Galaga
I have done a lot of self reflection and am improving as a person and am trying to get her to open up to me like she did with her AP ("He listened to me and it was nice"). But no matter what I do it just doesn't seem to get through. If the topic ever comes up it's always the same "I'm not coming back".

You have no control over her. I wish this paragraph simply said "I have done a lot of self reflection and am improving as a person". That you can control. You cannot control her opening up or not. So stop fixating on that. ALso stop talking about things. #1 rule of DBing: Never start R talks, and avoid them at all costs. If she starts one, listen and validate, then be the one to end the conversation.

Originally Posted by Galaga
I have said I want to support her as I know she is going through a tough time.
"Why would you want to support me after what I've done?"
"AP didn't break up our family, I did"
"Why would you want to support me when I don't want to be with you?"

Because I love you and you supported me for so many years.

Galaga, do you think this is making you look strong or weak? Do you think constantly telling her, essentially, "I don't care that you betrayed me, I want to be part of your life no matter what!" This is one of the biggest struggles for LBSs. Do not settle for a cheating spouse, instead move forward living your best life. If she gets interested and comes back, great! If she doesn't, well you are out living your best life!

Originally Posted by Galaga
She had been reaching out a couple of times a week to see how I am (It's pretty obvious that I am devastated) and when I have defriended her on Facebook she messages straight away asking why. I have now changed my interactions with her and a few times she has "thanked" me for making it easier to talk to me. She expects and probably is waiting for me to be angry........
1 That I'm not changing.
2. That my changes aren't genuine.
3. To validate her choice to have an affair, leave our house and walk away from the marriage.

More than likely? OM was keeping her at arms length. So shee needed to keep her plan B on ice. This is not what you want to hear, but you are for now her fall back plan.
Originally Posted by Galaga
However now no contact from her for 2 weeks.

Likely OM is back in the picture so all of her energy is there.

Originally Posted by Galaga
She has started going out quite regularly with her "Gal Pals" who tell her she's got this and that sparks are just around the corner.

Yep, Girls Gone Wild behavior is common for a WW.

Originally Posted by Galaga
She has religiously paid a joint loan we have and is also paying for our health insurance (has not removed me for some reason).

Plan B. Maybe some guilt too.

Originally Posted by Galaga
Is worried that the boys won't talk to her when "she moves on".

A little maybe. Most WW are willing to cut ties with just about anyone. Scorched earth. I know WWs that to this day are estranged from their kids. Didn't even attend their kids weddings.

Originally Posted by Galaga
Has most of her gear still at the house and when I offered her financial settlement it was ignored (and it was more than fair). She is living with mutual friends and unfortunately that has damaged my relationship with them.

Yep, she will continue to use you for storage. Very common for a WW that up and leaves When she is ready to really move on she will then decide to get all of it. Also another reason that she is meeting her financial obligations mentioned above. Gives her leverage if you get tough and tell her to get her stuff out of the house.

Originally Posted by Galaga
I know it's been a long road for her to get to this point and know that "if" there is any possibility it would take a long time to resurrect.

Think marathon, not sprint.

Originally Posted by Galaga
I love this woman with all my heart but have no idea who she is or who she has become.
[/quote

Most of us have been there. Question: Do you love her enough to let her go if that is what she decides she really wants?

[quote=Galaga]
There is probably more and I may add to this later but I am at a complete loss.

Start by finding and reading Divorce Busting. Also look up LRT, I think it is a valid approach to your current situation. You do not initiate contact. When she does you let it go to voicemail. When she follows up with a text, you only respond to direct questions. But in as few words as possible. No greetings or closings. You just answer the question. Yes or no questions get yes or no answers.

You are going to have to change how you interact with her. Read everything you can. Read and study sandi's rules. Make sure you are staying busy, GAL! Keep working on yourself, and then study and learn how to become properly and lovingly detached.

Finally embrace that you have no control over her or what she does. Go out and live your best life and give her time and space to make her final decision.


M(53), W(54),D(19)
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Galaga,

Sorry you're in this situation. We all know what you're going through, and are here to help you.

SteveLW's response is great and you should read it several times. I'll add my own $0.02.

Originally Posted by Galaga
I used to drink a fair bit and over the last 4-5 years started drinking more and would be angry (never violent) and never seemed happy.
Why were you drinking more? Why were you unhappy? Were you frustrated about job, friends...your marriage? You should probably think hard on this one. Don't know if it's the case here, but often times the LBS spouse is often frustrated with their marriage but that gets lost in the fear and sense of loss after BD. Is it possible you weren't happy either and were acting out because of it? Something to ponder and reflect on as you work on becoming a better man for the future.

Originally Posted by Galaga
At the same time I started noticing my wife putting down her phone or turning it off when I entered the room.
Dead giveaway of an affair, even if there's no tangible evidence. It's intuitive. All of a sudden she's guarded and acting so much differently with her phone than before. My ExW and I always used to pick up each others' phones and text someone or show the kids a video or whatever and it was never thought twice about, but all of a sudden...

Originally Posted by Galaga
In April I had enough of my suspicions and checked her phone.........My heart was ripped out ......."I love you" to another man.
She said it was only 2 kisses and after much forcing on my part she eventually defriended him and told him not to contact her.
Sorry man. That [censored]. Unfortunately she's almost certainly lying. No way they kissed only twice. Don't believe her.

Originally Posted by Galaga
I suggested counselling and the first session we went to she stated outright "I'm done and we won't be together anymore".
Took my ExW 3 sessions to say that.

Originally Posted by Galaga
I started my own counselling and saw my doctor for help with my drinking and cut right back and realised it was an emotional crutch.
That's good. Important to work on yourself and improve for the future. Keep it up!

Originally Posted by Galaga
"I know you're changing but it's too late for me"
"Why did it take for me to what I did before you got help?" (She had been begging me for years.)
Classic. They're mad at us for correcting the behaviors they asked us to change.

Originally Posted by Galaga
Fast forward....I left the house for a week to give her space......returning on the Sunday. She moved out that day (June)
Did you know she was moving out that week, or was that a surprise?

Originally Posted by Galaga
and it turns out it was the same day that our son had his first child. She rang and said do you want me to pick you up so we can see the grandbaby?)

Really? You've just left me, the house and our family and you want me to go with you? BTW our 2 sons and their girlfriends live in our house.
As SteveLW says, "cakeeating" She wants to have her affair but still place nice family when it suits her.

Originally Posted by Galaga
She has written me a letter saying that she didn't like the person I had become and that is fair enough.
Take it to heart, be honest with yourself, and work on the traits/behaviors to improve yourself for the future.

Originally Posted by Galaga
Also put in the letter that she still wants to be friends
Your response should be: "You're my wife. I'm not interested in being friends."

Originally Posted by Galaga
I have begged pleaded and got angry and made all the usual mistakes when someone first separates or finds out about an affair.
Yep. Join the club. Can't change it. Just get strong moving forward.

Originally Posted by Galaga
During this conversation she told me that she had spoken to AP twice........I felt like another knife had been plunged into my already dead heart.
I questioned her as to whether she was trying to tell me that they were back together or not.......All she would reply was "You wanted honesty......so we have spoken to each other twice." And eventually said no they aren't together.
She's lying. They likely spoke more than twice and maybe even met up multiple times. You absolutely can not trust anything she says, even if she looks and seems like your W she's a different person. My ExW lied directly to my face multiple times, despite me having tangible evidence.

Originally Posted by Galaga
BTW AP lives with his ex wife and has done so for 10 years.
Does AP's ExW know? This likely won't end as rosey for your W as she imagines.

Originally Posted by Galaga
I have done a lot of self reflection and am improving as a person
That's great. You absolutely should...and keep it up.

Originally Posted by Galaga
and am trying to get her to open up to me like she did with her AP ("He listened to me and it was nice"). But no matter what I do it just doesn't seem to get through. If the topic ever comes up it's always the same "I'm not coming back".
Drop it. You won't be able to convince her. Sorry to say but she's only thinking of this other guy and has to learn the hard way. It most likely won't end pretty for her if he's living with his ExW for 10 years. They're not going to ride off into the sunset.

Originally Posted by Galaga
I have said I want to support her as I know she is going through a tough time.
"Why would you want to support me after what I've done?"
"AP didn't break up our family, I did"
"Why would you want to support me when I don't want to be with you?"
Like SteveLW said. Stop this. It's extremely unattractive. What she's saying to you actually makes sense if you think about it objectively. It would be puzzling to betray someone and then have them beg you to take them bad. You're validating her ability to walk all over you. Stand up and get strong.

Originally Posted by Galaga
However now no contact from her for 2 weeks.
Good! Keep it up.

Originally Posted by Galaga
She has started going out quite regularly with her "Gal Pals" who tell her she's got this and that sparks are just around the corner.
Yep. Once they make up their minds they gravitate to the people encouraging that decision and shun the folks who question the decision. You should've heard my ExW ranting about cheaters and divorce, even those within her family...until she decided to. Then all those people were her best friends and anyone who questioned her choices or recommended she slow down were cut off.

Originally Posted by Galaga
She has religiously paid a joint loan we have and is also paying for our health insurance (has not removed me for some reason).
Good. Take advantage of the financial donation.

Originally Posted by Galaga
Is worried that the boys won't talk to her when "she moves on".
She should be. I imagine they will know what she's up to and won't look too kindly on it.

Originally Posted by Galaga
Has most of her gear still at the house
Be proactive. Be strong. Pack it all up in boxes and bags and put it in the garage or on the porch and tell her it's ready for her to pick up.

Hang in there Galaga. It's going to be a rough road but you'll get through it and you will be alright.


Me:39 Ex-W:37
M:7 T: 9
S:6 D:3
BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20
OM1 affair ends: May '20
W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20
W files for D: Jul20
OM2 confirmed: 9/2020
Divorced: May '21
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So weekly wrap up.
On annual leave because tomorrow we were meant to fly out on holidays with our friends......well guess not.
So I will take the time and be proactive around the house and finish off some jobs that have been waiting for years.

Last night caught up with an old work mate and not once did I discuss W or the situation. Just went out for dinner and a chat,

Babysitting granddaughter tonight and hopefully by this weeks end grandson will arrive as well.

Should be exciting times but a little hollow. frown

Spoke to a lawyer yesterday and geez aren't they a bundle of fun?
"You need to be on the front foot and serve her papers" "Don't wait for her" "You have the upper hand".
"It will only cost you $15-20 grand". Yeah thanks.

SIL returned a video camera that we had all forgotten about and it has pictures of my sons when they were 2 and 4 with my now deceased grandparents......brought a tear to my eyes. She couldn't even see me (I'll always be there for you blah blah) so dropped it off to my neighbours.

Niece in law invited me over for Xmas lunch.....like really? How does she think I would turn up knowing that W would probably be there and potentially with the affair partner.

All in all I'm getting to realise that the woman I married is dead. As I am dead to her.
Not that I don't still think about her but know she is not the same person that I married.
Her first husband cheated on her so I can't understand why she would go and have an affair.

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Galaga,
Originally Posted by Galaga
I will take the time and be proactive around the house and finish off some jobs that have been waiting for years.

Last night caught up with an old work mate and not once did I discuss W or the situation. Just went out for dinner and a chat,

Babysitting granddaughter tonight and hopefully by this weeks end grandson will arrive as well.
House projects, dinner with friends, and time with the grandkids...all good stuff! Keep it up. Have you thought about joining a gym / starting a workout routine?

Originally Posted by Galaga
Should be exciting times but a little hollow. frown
I understand that hollow feeling. Hang in there. It'll improve with time.

Originally Posted by Galaga
Spoke to a lawyer yesterday and geez aren't they a bundle of fun?
"You need to be on the front foot and serve her papers" "Don't wait for her" "You have the upper hand".
"It will only cost you $15-20 grand". Yeah thanks.
Why did he say you have the upper hand? My L encouraged me to act quick too. He said in his experience the better deals are usual right out of the gate. He said she may be feeling guilty and/or eager to move on and may be willing to give more, whereas the longer it drew out the more it gets into the dig in and fight over things mode. I didn't follow this advice; I wasn't ready emotionally. I faired alright under the law anyway, but looking back may have benefited from acting quicker.

Originally Posted by Galaga
Niece in law invited me over for Xmas lunch.....like really? How does she think I would turn up knowing that W would probably be there and potentially with the affair partner.
She may just be trying to be nice, and probably doesn't know how to act in the situation. I'd politely decline, but your point is valid...at some point each side of the family will likely circle the wagons.

Originally Posted by Galaga
All in all I'm getting to realise that the woman I married is dead. As I am dead to her.
Not that I don't still think about her but know she is not the same person that I married.
Her first husband cheated on her so I can't understand why she would go and have an affair.
You're likely not there yet. You'll think you're detached and then something will surface to show you you're not yet. It's a process. It'll take awhile. You'll have ups and downs. Just know you'll get through it.

Last edited by BL42; 10/30/21 01:54 PM.

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Originally Posted by Galaga
So weekly wrap up.
On annual leave because tomorrow we were meant to fly out on holidays with our friends......well guess not.
So I will take the time and be proactive around the house and finish off some jobs that have been waiting for years.

Last night caught up with an old work mate and not once did I discuss W or the situation. Just went out for dinner and a chat,

Babysitting granddaughter tonight and hopefully by this weeks end grandson will arrive as well.

Should be exciting times but a little hollow. frown

Spoke to a lawyer yesterday and geez aren't they a bundle of fun?
"You need to be on the front foot and serve her papers" "Don't wait for her" "You have the upper hand".
"It will only cost you $15-20 grand". Yeah thanks.

SIL returned a video camera that we had all forgotten about and it has pictures of my sons when they were 2 and 4 with my now deceased grandparents......brought a tear to my eyes. She couldn't even see me (I'll always be there for you blah blah) so dropped it off to my neighbours.

Niece in law invited me over for Xmas lunch.....like really? How does she think I would turn up knowing that W would probably be there and potentially with the affair partner.

All in all I'm getting to realise that the woman I married is dead. As I am dead to her.
Not that I don't still think about her but know she is not the same person that I married.
Her first husband cheated on her so I can't understand why she would go and have an affair.

Galaga, I like the GAL aspects. Not the "poor me" aspects. Our words tend to lead our actions. So while it's fine to vent here, over time the narrative should start changing.

As far as the Xmas brunch invite, a simple inquiry about other "invites" is not out of line. Or a simple decline is fine too. I realize that all of this is still raw for you so intials l obviously the idea of being around the OM is a trigger.

As far as the change in her. Waywardness is a terrible thing. Mourn the loss of your old W, but then buck up and move forward. We don't get to control others but can control ourselves. So focus on what you can control: you. This is why fixating on how the WAS/WS has changed is a bad idea. A lot of LBSs fixate on MLCs, and dissecting them. She may be changed forever, she may wake up one day. Either way you move forward and do not wait for that.


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Originally Posted by BL42
Galaga,



Why did he say you have the upper hand? My L encouraged me to act quick too. He said in his experience the better deals are usual right out of the gate. He said she may be feeling guilty and/or eager to move on and may be willing to give more, whereas the longer it drew out the more it gets into the dig in and fight over things mode. I didn't follow this advice; I wasn't ready emotionally. I faired alright under the law anyway, but looking back may have benefited from acting quicker.

Because I'm still in the house and our children are living here with me.
Don't really want to get lawyers involved as it will cost a fortune.
Did offer her a settlement early on but it was ignored....no counter offer or acceptance.
It was a desperate push by me but now I've backed off.
I know I should continue but part of me says if she wants this she can do the hard work for it.

I will come out OK financially and she will have to start form scratch.

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Galaga,
Originally Posted by Galaga
Originally Posted by BL42
Why did your L say you have the upper hand?
Because I'm still in the house and our children are living here with me.
That's a big positive for you. She's the one who moved out. You're in the house with the kids, and now grandbaby, so you stay involved in their lives day-to-day and have the presumption of "home" with the family. What are your S19 and S21 thoughts about all this? I have to imagine they've talked with you about it. Are they in touch with and visiting your W at the friends' place?

Originally Posted by Galaga
Don't really want to get lawyers involved as it will cost a fortune.
Understandable. You may need to if your W goes that route to make sure you're protected, but good you had an initial consult and know where you stand general.

Originally Posted by Galaga
Did offer her a settlement early on but it was ignored....no counter offer or acceptance.
It was a desperate push by me but now I've backed off.
I know I should continue but part of me says if she wants this she can do the hard work for it.
Based on the situation it sounds like you should not push it - you're in the home with the kids - and let her do any heavy lifting.

Originally Posted by Galaga
I will come out OK financially and she will have to start form scratch.
That must give you some relief. With the age of your kids custody and child support are likely not an issue. Not sure about your employment situations...what about spousal support? Assets?


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Any parts in particular?
I still want to resolve this and can only see if I do anything it will only push her further away.

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Originally Posted by Galaga
Don't really want to get lawyers involved as it will cost a fortune.

We always get LBSs here that say they can't afford a lawyer. Divorce is a legal proceeding. When it comes to D, unless it is completely amicable and with NO disputes, you cannot afford to NOT have a lawyer.

It is like having car trouble and saying "I don't want to involve a mechanic because it will cost a fortune......"


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Originally Posted by Galaga
Any parts in particular?
I still want to resolve this and can only see if I do anything it will only push her further away.

DB'ing is counterintuitive - sometimes what you think is pushing away might be the best course of ACTION.


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Originally Posted by Galaga
Any parts in particular?
I still want to resolve this and can only see if I do anything it will only push her further away.

I posted the link as an example on how do deal with any lies.

Normally they admit one or two layers less than the truth.

We are just friends = We are more than just friends. We have either an emotional or sexual relation.
We kissed once = they have done more than kiss.
We had sex once, it didn't mean anything = We had sex many times, most likely still

You have gathered some intel that lets you know you she lies to you.

Do not tolerate lies.


Read as much as possible during this initial phase. Everything you will encounter during your journey through this process has been experienced by posters here. There are many choices on how to respond to things, arm yourself with as many options as possible, determine which will be the most effective in your current sitch, and behave accordingly.


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"What is best for my kids is best for me"
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Always good stuff.

Galaga, you have to detach from all the crazy in your life and reassess.

You have to do the right thing for you and be prepared to let the chips fall where they may. Stare down the barrel of the gun and don't blink - because this won't kill you. It will only hurt as much as you allow it to.

People may have negative reactions to you setting clean boundaries and doing what needs to be done. That's OK.

Your W is out of the house and with your kids having their own kids you can prepare for them to fly the coop too.

You are in a transition phase of your life and it is up to you to capitalize on this. Take time to think through a plan and outline your goals.


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Originally Posted by Galaga
Don't really want to get lawyers involved as it will cost a fortune.
Hi Galaga,

That's a common fear. Consulting a legal professional for periodic advice can cost as little or as much as you want/allow them to. It's like when you sprain an ankle--you can pay for a $40 telepresence visits, or a $120 in-person visit with a podiatrist + $50 for a brace, or you could spend $2,000 for an MRI. If you're not sure about getting an MRI at this point, that's fine, I'd still spring for Telepresence visits. Get someone competent guiding you legally. You don't have to tell her. It's not an arms race.

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Originally Posted by Ready2Change


I posted the link as an example on how do deal with any lies.

Normally they admit one or two layers less than the truth.

We are just friends = We are more than just friends. We have either an emotional or sexual relation.
We kissed once = they have done more than kiss.
We had sex once, it didn't mean anything = We had sex many times, most likely still

You have gathered some intel that lets you know you she lies to you.
I pushed again last night about the affair.
"I only kissed him". Which deep down I'm starting to disbelieve.

Told her I loved her but that she was becoming an alien.
She responded "you know what, I love you too but couldn't continue the way it was. I know you have got help and I'm glad. I've got help as well. I'm sorry I broke up our family. No one else did it it was me. I got up and I walked away."

But then fast forward to today and she came and collected more of her stuff from the house.
I left because at this moment I don't want to face her.
I'm not detached enough.

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This is only a guess on experience in life and in these forums

If she admitted she kissed him, she went further. Prepare yourself mentally and emotionally. Don’t ever believe what they say, believe what they do. A perfect example is your last post. She says she loves you, she says she sorry for breaking the family. She says she’s got help…however what she does is continue to pack to leave.

Definitely get a lawyer. You’ve been fired for now, but if it helps, hopefully just laid off as her partner. Protect yourself. Spending 2 or 3 grand now could save you 10 grand later.

Keep your head high.


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Originally Posted by JosephS
This is only a guess on experience in life and in these forums

If she admitted she kissed him, she went further. Prepare yourself mentally and emotionally. Don’t ever believe what they say, believe what they do. A perfect example is your last post. She says she loves you, she says she sorry for breaking the family. She says she’s got help…however what she does is continue to pack to leave.

Definitely get a lawyer. You’ve been fired for now, but if it helps, hopefully just laid off as her partner. Protect yourself. Spending 2 or 3 grand now could save you 10 grand later.

Keep your head high.
That is definitely my boundary. And it's obvious I'll never get the truth out of her.
I'm sure it was more and she is ashamed or doesn't want to be honest about it.

Son 19 was here when she picked up stuff today and asked her if I knew she was here .....if not she wasn't allowed in.

"But it's my house too" she responded. She didn't take too kindly to being told no it isn't.

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Galaga,
Originally Posted by Galaga
"I only kissed him". Which deep down I'm starting to disbelieve.
Originally Posted by JosephS
If she admitted she kissed him, she went further. Prepare yourself mentally and emotionally. Don’t ever believe what they say, believe what they do.
There is a 99% chance they did more than kiss. She's almost certainly still lying. Sorry man. You should pack up anything of hers she hasn't already taken and leave it on the porch for her. Having her stop in little by little isn't going to help your emotional state nor will it promote a recon, plus taking action will make you feel stronger.

Originally Posted by Galaga
Son 19 was here when she picked up stuff today and asked her if I knew she was here .....if not she wasn't allowed in.
What do S19 and S21 think about the situation? They're living with you. Are they "team dad", or trying to stay neutral?

Originally Posted by BL42
Originally Posted by Galaga
I used to drink a fair bit and over the last 4-5 years started drinking more and would be angry (never violent) and never seemed happy.
Why were you drinking more? Why were you unhappy? Were you frustrated about job, friends...your marriage? You should probably think hard on this one. Don't know if it's the case here, but often times the LBS spouse is often frustrated with their marriage but that gets lost in the fear and sense of loss after BD. Is it possible you weren't happy either and were acting out because of it? Something to ponder and reflect on as you work on becoming a better man for the future.
Have you given any more thought to this?


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Originally Posted by Galaga
Son 19 was here when she picked up stuff today and asked her if I knew she was here .....if not she wasn't allowed in.

"But it's my house too" she responded. She didn't take too kindly to being told no it isn't.

G legally it is her house and unless you are being advised by a lawyer you and your son should not prevent her from entering the house.

There is nothing you can do right now to end the affair or get your wife back.

How does that feel? Crappy right? Used to fixing things? Used to finding a way? Familiar with the feeling that if you work hard enough, anything is possible? None of that applies now, there is nothing you can do. You need to surrender to that, grieve it and find peace with it. Fighting against it sets you up as their adversary, pushes them together and you away. If you continue to actively try to disrupt the affair and get your wife back, you will only dig your hole deeper and deeper, and that will be a debt that will take you a long time to recover from.

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Originally Posted by Galaga
That is definitely my boundary. And it's obvious I'll never get the truth out of her.


Not tolerating lying is a boundary. This is how you set and enforce:
Quote
Stop. We both know you're lying. If that's all you have then I have more important things to attend to. Please excuse me...
Get up to leave...


Do not "push" her for any info. This is the time to observe and listen.

#1) Never reveal WHAT you know.
#2) Never reveal HOW you know.
#3) Only reveal the YOU DO KNOW.

Walking away from someone who is lying to you is a great boundary.


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Originally Posted by LH19
There is nothing you can do right now to end the affair or get your wife back.

How does that feel? Crappy right? Used to fixing things? Used to finding a way? Familiar with the feeling that if you work hard enough, anything is possible? None of that applies now, there is nothing you can do. You need to surrender to that, grieve it and find peace with it. Fighting against it sets you up as their adversary, pushes them together and you away. If you continue to actively try to disrupt the affair and get your wife back, you will only dig your hole deeper and deeper, and that will be a debt that will take you a long time to recover from.

There are things you can control and things you can not. Focus on the things you can control. You and your behavior and the way you interact with her are under your control. Changing the way you interact is part of this process. How hard is it to change your own behavior? Most find it a challenge and can do it with focus and determination. Now think how hard it is to change someone else's. Almost impossible. One of my frustrations with posters is getting them to change. I can't make you change. You have to have a deep desire to change and have faith that what we recommend is better than staying the same.


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Originally Posted by BL42
Galaga,

There is a 99% chance they did more than kiss. She's almost certainly still lying. Sorry man. You should pack up anything of hers she hasn't already taken and leave it on the porch for her. Having her stop in little by little isn't going to help your emotional state nor will it promote a recon, plus taking action will make you feel stronger.
That part is what is eating at me. I thought I knew her but now doubt is creeping in as to how far it really went.


Originally Posted by BL42
What do S19 and S21 think about the situation? They're living with you. Are they "team dad", or trying to stay neutral?
Both boys say they are on team dad. We are living with you and don't agree with what she has done. But s19 is struggling from depression and dealing with new baby. So he relies on her to look after baby when I can't.

Originally Posted by BL42
Why were you drinking more? Why were you unhappy? Were you frustrated about job, friends...your marriage? You should probably think hard on this one. Don't know if it's the case here, but often times the LBS spouse is often frustrated with their marriage but that gets lost in the fear and sense of loss after BD. Is it possible you weren't happy either and were acting out because of it? Something to ponder and reflect on as you work on becoming a better man for the future.
Have you given any more thought to this?

I had a turbulent childhood. Not that I'm using it as an excuse but drank to numb or dull the memories.
My sister was sexually assaulted by one of mums boyfriends.
My grandmother molested me at age 4 or 5.
My father used to beat my mother in front of me when I was younger.
My father attempted to commit suicide and I saved him. He was not breathing and had no heart beat for 15 minutes.
Always felt that my sister could do no wrong in my parents eyes and I was a failure.

When I became suspicious of the affair and with her denial I drank more to numb the pain.

I have since gone to a counsellor and am dealing with my drinking and coping strategies.

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She said she broke down and cried due to her stuff being on being outside on the verandah.
Made mention that "we" ...the boys and me need to realise that it was not AP that broke up the family, that it was her.
That she still loves me but couldn't continue the way it was.
Not sure if that meant the drinking or the 2 months of anger and arguments post her getting caught in the affair.

In the meantime I have been out a few times and let my sons fend for themselves.

I have not contacted her other than when she sent me a text saying "sorry I didn't realise it was you I passed in the car this morning. Have a nice day".
I did respond with "thanks, you too". Probably wrong as it was a meaningless interaction.

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So tonight she messages to say her mum who has early dementia is going in for a scan tomorrow and they'd like to see me.
Really?
Like i want to keep in contact with her parents.
I told her "Thanks for telling me and I've informed the boys"
I did go and see her mum.
She asked "was mum happy to see you?".

Not responding to that.
If the AP is so important share the news with him not the husband you dumped after 22 years

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So tonight she messages to say her mum who has early dementia is going in for a scan tomorrow and they'd like to see me.
Really?
Like i want to keep in contact with her parents.
I told her "Thanks for telling me and I've informed the boys"
I did go and see her mum.
She asked "was mum happy to see you?".

Not responding to that.
If the AP is so important share the news with him not the husband you dumped after 22 years

Edit and double post sorry.
and then she says "Please keep going to see my mum"

Why would I?

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Where you close to her parents? That maybe why she’s sharing the news. Personally I loved my MIL and if she was still alive I would have loved to see her. But I understand not wanting a relationship either as I don’t talk to any of my former in-laws.

Does her mom know what is going on? That could be some of it too. Keeping familiar people around may help her not be so confused and it may help her mood.

She may or may not have shared it with the AP. It’s not something to get hung up on. Depending on how close she was to her mom she maybe telling the cashier at the grocery store if it’s thrown her through enough of a loop.

As far as her taking the blame for the end of the marriage, I personally would take it one of two ways. She’s either hoping her kids love her enough to get over this and in time they’ll give her new partner a chance (My guess is they’ll get over this like 99% of kids do) or she’s saying the marriage had been over and she’s the only one who knew. You’d be surprised how often people stay in relationships that are over to make sure they are emotionally or financially secure for what’s to come.

Last edited by JosephS; 11/17/21 12:08 PM.

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Originally Posted by JosephS
Where you close to her parents? That maybe why she’s sharing the news. Personally I loved my MIL and if she was still alive I would have loved to see her. But I understand not wanting a relationship either as I don’t talk to any of my former in-laws.

Does her mom know what is going on? That could be some of it too. Keeping familiar people around may help her not be so confused and it may help her mood.

She may or may not have shared it with the AP. It’s not something to get hung up on. Depending on how close she was to her mom she maybe telling the cashier at the grocery store if it’s thrown her through enough of a loop.

As far as her taking the blame for the end of the marriage, I personally would take it one of two ways. She’s either hoping her kids love her enough to get over this and in time they’ll give her new partner a chance (My guess is they’ll get over this like 99% of kids do) or she’s saying the marriage had been over and she’s the only one who knew. You’d be surprised how often people stay in relationships that are over to make sure they are emotionally or financially secure for what’s to come.
Reasonably close to her parents, but think it's more about her than my relationship with them.
And yes her mum knows what is going on.

Don't know if the AP is still on the scene and she would lie about it anyway as she has lied about other stuff.

Her reasons for leaving change constantly and sometimes accepts responsibility and others places blame on me. Whatever suits her narrative at the time.
Will not discuss next steps or talk financials, still living in a hazy world where nothing is getting dealt with.

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Originally Posted by Galaga
Reasonably close to her parents, but think it's more about her than my relationship with them.
And yes her mum knows what is going on.

Don't know if the AP is still on the scene and she would lie about it anyway as she has lied about other stuff.

Her reasons for leaving change constantly and sometimes accepts responsibility and others places blame on me. Whatever suits her narrative at the time.
Will not discuss next steps or talk financials, still living in a hazy world where nothing is getting dealt with.


Galaga, I like your thinking here. I love that you know that you cannot believe anything she says, even if it is something you want to believe. LBSs struggle with that so much. "But he/she says there is no OP!" Yeah right. So well done.

I also like your observations on her changing reasons to leave. The mental gymnastics WASs go through in order to justify what they are doing is astounding. They can convince themselves of almost anything. I've even seen WWs that have convinced themselves that they were physically abused when there was no physical abuse. I believe they actually believe. The rewriting of history is rarely done consciously, but they have convinced themselves of that reality.

As far as nothing getting dealt with, just let that go. Go out and live your best life. GAL, continue to self-improve, and work on detachment. Move forward with your life and leave her to figure out her own stuff.


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I just want to give up on life atm.

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Galaga I promise you things will get better. This is past out pay grade you need to contact a professional immediately.

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Galaga - I feel for you. This is one of the most difficult times most of us have experienced. The vets on this board though are testaments that you will get through it, and life will be good. Think about your sons and your grandkid. I agree w/LH on individual counseling (IC). Keep up the GAL. We're all pulling for you.


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Galaga, one thing that pulled me through an abusive childhood that was sometimes a living hell was knowing that, if it got beyond my ability to manage, I could leave (live on the street), and as a teen I counted the days until freedom. This pain and difficulty coping is temporary.

I agree with LH that your last message indicates an urgent situation and you should seek treatment in addition to this forum. A couple good numbers to call: 1) In the USA, 1-800-273-TALK. 2) In the UK, 111. The forum’s prohibition against outside links hopefully does not include government-endorsed crisis hotlines for when people want to give up on life. These lines aren’t just for imminent emergencies. They help people in dark moments find resources to work towards enjoying life again.

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I agree.

You need professional help to get through this stage.
Pick up the phone and talk to someone. You might not like the first one or two counsellors… but you will find one that clicks with you, who gives you the tools to get past this difficult time.

Don’t give up. The night is darkest just before the dawn. Things are going to get better!

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I am at the point that I want to confront the prick. He blocked me as soon as I knew about the affair.
Which in itself says he knew it was crap but still kept doing it.

I won't though as it proves I am less than both of them.

Have spent today making a bedroom in the shed for my granddaughter so her parents have their own space. Invited DIL father to help so that he feels part of the transition. That was good because normally I would just do stuff by myself and refuse help.

So also cooking a family  pork roast for us to sit down and have  dinner together.

Another day forward in this piece of crap that life dealt me.

But I have got drunk twice this week to hide from [censored].
One of the reasons she said she left. I've been so good since BD and didn't want to but this week just everything has crushed me....

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G,

Confrontation will only push them closer together.

Don’t be one of those bitter people who blames life for your troubles.

You know how you got here and it looks like you are going down that road again. Making real changes in life are hard and requires discipline.

This isn’t easy but you can get through it if you stay sober and take it one day at a time.

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Got a message from her this morning asking if it was OK for her to come and visit boys (19 and 22) and grandchildren?
She saw pics of the room I'm building for granddaughter and responded with a heart emoji.

Not sure how I feel about this.

Might be cake eating??

Originally Posted by LH19
G,

Confrontation will only push them closer together.

Don’t be one of those bitter people who blames life for your troubles.

You know how you got here and it looks like you are going down that road again. Making real changes in life are hard and requires discipline.

This isn’t easy but you can get through it if you stay sober and take it one day at a time.

Yes I know. It was a fallback and I'm not proud of it at all. Been doing so well but this week just felt like crap due to her getting more gear from the house and removing her "married" status on Facebook. I know don't worry what she is doing and focus on myself!!!!!

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Why do you keep ignoring advice to get some professional help?

As LH19 said, some of the stuff going on here (such as you wanting to “confront the prick”) is way above our pay grade.

Are you getting professional help?

If not, what’s the worst thing that could happen? You go and see someone, decide you don’t like them, and find someone else.

It’s really important that while all of these things are surmountable, you can’t do it without help.

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Originally Posted by Galaga
Been doing so well but this week just felt like crap due to her getting more gear from the house and removing her "married" status on Facebook.
Why are you following her facebook page?

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To echo others, lots of red flags here. Get into IC, stat. Maybe AA too. It is difficult enough to make good decisions sober, let alone drunk. Right now you want to be in control of yourself at all times.

You are pinballing between extremes, Galaga. Never a good place to be. Get the help you need to get through this difficult time.


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Galaga,
Originally Posted by Galaga
when I have defriended her on Facebook she messages straight away asking why.
Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by Galaga
Been doing so well but this week just felt like crap due to her getting more gear from the house and removing her "married" status on Facebook.
Why are you following her facebook page?
Thought you defriended her on Facebook awhile back? Did you connect with her again, or are you just checking her page without being officially "friends"?

I distinctly remember the night my now ExW changed her profile pic (which had been our family) and removed her "married" relationship status on Facebook. It was late and I was on the couch by myself with the kids in bed and she was "working late" and having the affair. At the time I was pretty devastated and it really set me back, but I was acting scared and fearful of losing my family. Flash forward a few months and not only defriended her but actually blocked her as well as her family and associated affair people. I don't give it a second thought anymore. The worst (in my mind) has already happened and I'm doing well despite it. No need for me to worry about her social media any more...

Originally Posted by Galaga
But I have got drunk twice this week to hide from [censored].
One of the reasons she said she left. I've been so good since BD and didn't want to but this week just everything has crushed me....
Everyone slips, but really put an effort into stopping the alcohol abuse. Not only is it a 180 your wife was concerned about, but as SteveLW says it'll hurt your ability to DB.

Originally Posted by Galaga
Got a message from her this morning asking if it was OK for her to come and visit boys (19 and 22) and grandchildren?
This is a tough one with your kids and grandkid living with you, and her potentially still having rights to the house? Not sure how I'd handle it. Maybe others have suggestions. Obviously would be better for the kids/grandkid to visit her as opposed to her coming over. Or maybe if she does come over you duck out to GAL?


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Hi Galaga,
Originally Posted by Galaga
I used to drink a fair bit and over the last 4-5 years started drinking more and would be angry (never violent) and never seemed happy… I didn't believe it so started drinking more to hide from the fears.

It was a fallback and I'm not proud of it at all.

Most a people don’t the willpower every day to make permanent change—that’s why they remain stuck in their groove (e.g., alcohol abuse) despite occasional good periods. With diet, when people are ready to change they seek exercise groups, running partners, teams, coaches etc. to direct and keep them going. What outside resources are you leveraging to stop alcohol abuse? AA is popular. You’ll be assigned a mentor you can call when those days hit instead of pulling out a bottle. 12.75% suffer from alcohol abuse. Your family already knows. There’s no shame in seeking help.

You already said it—this is why she wanted out. Is that a prompt for long-term change?

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Originally Posted by CWarrior
Most a people don’t the willpower every day to make permanent change—that’s why they remain stuck in their groove (e.g., alcohol abuse) despite occasional good periods. With diet, when people are ready to change they seek exercise groups, running partners, teams, coaches etc. to direct and keep them going. What outside resources are you leveraging to stop alcohol abuse? AA is popular. You’ll be assigned a mentor you can call when those days hit instead of pulling out a bottle. 12.75% suffer from alcohol abuse. Your family already knows. There’s no shame in seeking help.

You already said it—this is why she wanted out. Is that a prompt to change?
^^^Well said, CW. Seek out a support network to help...great advice.


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Originally Posted by Kind18
Why do you keep ignoring advice to get some professional help?

As LH19 said, some of the stuff going on here (such as you wanting to “confront the prick”) is way above our pay grade.

Are you getting professional help?

If not, what’s the worst thing that could happen? You go and see someone, decide you don’t like them, and find someone else.

It’s really important that while all of these things are surmountable, you can’t do it without help.

I am seeing a counsellor currently every 2 weeks and working through issues.

Originally Posted by CWarrior
Hi Galaga,

Most a people don’t the willpower every day to make permanent change—that’s why they remain stuck in their groove (e.g., alcohol abuse) despite occasional good periods. With diet, when people are ready to change they seek exercise groups, running partners, teams, coaches etc. to direct and keep them going. What outside resources are you leveraging to stop alcohol abuse? AA is popular. You’ll be assigned a mentor you can call when those days hit instead of pulling out a bottle. 12.75% suffer from alcohol abuse. Your family already knows. There’s no shame in seeking help.

You already said it—this is why she wanted out. Is that a prompt for long-term change?
It was one of the reasons she has used and yes I am in support groups and dealing with the underlying issues. Coping a lot better and long-term change is my goal for my own health and sanity.

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Galaga,

Originally Posted by Galaga
I am seeing a counsellor currently every 2 weeks and working through issues.
Originally Posted by Galaga
It was one of the reasons she has used and yes I am in support groups and dealing with the underlying issues. Coping a lot better and long-term change is my goal for my own health and sanity.
That's great on both counts. Keep it up!


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I seriously can't wait for my counselling tomorrow.
Just had to sit through a suicide and self harm presentation at work and it absolutely triggered me.

I did have thoughts earlier in the year and was welfare checked by police twice. No thoughts now though.

On top of this it brought back memories of seeing my father hanging from a rope in our backyard.
He had no pulse and wasn't breathing for 15 minutes whilst I worked on him until I brought him back.
He is still alive today.

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Hi dear G,

Thank you for sharing such a vulnerable image. I can imagine your session at work would be triggering for you. Absolutely NO child should have to experience what you did, whether you were 12 or 22 at the time. But also know that suicide, or suicide attempts, are not the only path to getting the help you need.

A friend of mine, during a very dark moment I was enduring, asked me what the h3ll I was waiting for in not getting the help and support I needed. I was in 2 x a month therapy and she said 'that's not enough for you right now. Do you need permission? Do you need money? Because I will start a GoFundMe page right now for you if that's what you need.'

I realized that I needed someone to give me permission (money would have been helpful, but what is a life worth? I will make the money back in the future, but my mental health is worth so much more, so are my children).

If you are in a similar position, may I give you permission to get as much therapy, support, help as you need right now? Can you be selfish and say 'yes, I might need 2 x a week, not 2 x a month at the moment?' It won't last forever. But please give yourself permission (or let me give it to you) to not be in a position where you 'can't wait for your counseling session tomorrow' and get you to a place where you are wondering if you even have enough to talk about in your twice-weekly sessions?

Hugs to you, Galaga. We're here for you.

xx

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Originally Posted by Galaga
I seriously can't wait for my counselling tomorrow.
Just had to sit through a suicide and self harm presentation at work and it absolutely triggered me.

I did have thoughts earlier in the year and was welfare checked by police twice. No thoughts now though.

On top of this it brought back memories of seeing my father hanging from a rope in our backyard.
He had no pulse and wasn't breathing for 15 minutes whilst I worked on him until I brought him back.
He is still alive today.

You need more help than what anyone on this board can give. You bare minimum have a drinking problem that’s more excessive than you admit to yourself, or at worst you have unchecked PTSD. 15 minutes with no oxygen sounded…like a lot to me. A quick google search is as follows

“At five minutes, death becomes imminent. At 10 minutes, even if the brain remains alive, a coma and lasting brain damage are almost inevitable. At 15 minutes, survival becomes nearly impossible”

I don’t want to be insensitive but at best you are drunk posting, and again, at worst are exaggerating to gain sympathy from strangers you don’t know.

If you are in group therapy for drinking as you have said I’m gonna assume it’s AA. It’s a good group. But something tells me at best you are lying to the group about your slip ups, at worst you are drinking with absolutely no one to help hold you accountable.

I’m just going to say this, and I could be out of line, but here it is.

If you are telling the truth about at least half of this, you really should consider bare minimum intensive outpatient therapy and allow your wife to have your adult children and grandchildren. You are in no shape to be the best you or a safe you to properly be around your kids or grand kids in a healthy way.

I’m not gonna post anymore on your thread. This is way above my pay grade, or you are trolling, or you have mental issues that requires immediate professional help.

If you are being honest, for the love of yourself, your kids, and grand kids, go get some real help


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Originally Posted by JosephS
Originally Posted by Galaga
I seriously can't wait for my counselling tomorrow.
Just had to sit through a suicide and self harm presentation at work and it absolutely triggered me.

I did have thoughts earlier in the year and was welfare checked by police twice. No thoughts now though.

On top of this it brought back memories of seeing my father hanging from a rope in our backyard.
He had no pulse and wasn't breathing for 15 minutes whilst I worked on him until I brought him back.
He is still alive today.

You need more help than what anyone on this board can give. You bare minimum have a drinking problem that’s more excessive than you admit to yourself, or at worst you have unchecked PTSD. 15 minutes with no oxygen sounded…like a lot to me. A quick google search is as follows

“At five minutes, death becomes imminent. At 10 minutes, even if the brain remains alive, a coma and lasting brain damage are almost inevitable. At 15 minutes, survival becomes nearly impossible”

I don’t want to be insensitive but at best you are drunk posting, and again, at worst are exaggerating to gain sympathy from strangers you don’t know.

If you are in group therapy for drinking as you have said I’m gonna assume it’s AA. It’s a good group. But something tells me at best you are lying to the group about your slip ups, at worst you are drinking with absolutely no one to help hold you accountable.

I’m just going to say this, and I could be out of line, but here it is.

If you are telling the truth about at least half of this, you really should consider bare minimum intensive outpatient therapy and allow your wife to have your adult children and grandchildren. You are in no shape to be the best you or a safe you to properly be around your kids or grand kids in a healthy way.

I’m not gonna post anymore on your thread. This is way above my pay grade, or you are trolling, or you have mental issues that requires immediate professional help.

If you are being honest, for the love of yourself, your kids, and grand kids, go get some real help
Ok. Thanks.
I was there and it was 15 minutes that I worked on him.. He spent the next week in a coma.
My drinking I've been totally honest with myself and what I post.
I'm not here for sympathy at all.
So by being honest I'm trolling...well Thanks.

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Just to clarify I said he wasn't breathing but by giving him CPR he was getting oxygen.

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Galaga, one of the biggest learnings and improvements I made in my own sitch was to embrace frank talk. Here in western society we tend to be right-fighters. We want to be right no matter the cost. As my favorite bald TV psychologist from Texas likes to ask people: "Would you rather be right or happy?" The two are not always congruent.

Joseph's post may have struck a nerve. Is it because what he said was wrong? Or because you didn't like what he said? So rather than push back against the advice just let it ruminate. Let it sink in. Joseph's post didn't have to be 100% accurate to be effective. You know what happened with your dad, but we do sometimes tend to exaggerate to make the story more meaningful. Regardless, suicide and suicide attempts profound impacts on those that love the individual. It has obviously had a big impact on you regardless of the details! The real question is how did you learn and grow from that?

Galaga, we are all here pulling for you. We want to see you become the best version of you that you can be, regardless of what happens with your marriage. You've got this! Now go out and make the decisions that will help you get there.


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Seriously this will be my last post, I did need to clarify.

The point wasn’t to hurt you. But I tend to be blunt with people who drink. My brother is an alcoholic, my grandfather was before he died, and my FIL was before he died.

They all have certain things in common. Nothing was ever their fault, they skew things that happened or make mountains out of mole hills to play the victim. They also have all died or are on their way to dying alone. Their family gets burned out on trying to help them. And I’m not saying a suicide attempt was making a mountain out of a molehill. There was just a red flag of the 15 mins with no breathing comment for me personally.

I wasn’t trying to be insensitive, what I’m trying to say is you need help. This board can be a great tool to help you understand the break down of your marriage, and become the best version of yourself. But with the added issue of your drinking that you are still partaking in with having a history of a drinking problem and the mental health issues, you do need professional help on different levels.

If I’m being honest, and I know it hurts, but what it sounds like is your marriage was destroyed by your drinking, and yet you continue to do so. If you don’t get help it’s only a matter of time before your relationship with your kids and grandchildren is negatively affected.

Do what you need to do to get help, please feel free to post, I won’t comment. Maybe here’s the moment I need to look at the situation and see maybe I’m taking this situation differently because of my own experience with family who drinks and I maybe not be in the best person to post on your thread.

I wish you the best of luck

Last edited by JosephS; 11/23/21 02:47 PM.

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Originally Posted by galaga
On top of this it brought back memories of seeing my father hanging from a rope in our backyard.
He had no pulse and wasn't breathing for 15 minutes whilst I worked on him until I brought him back.
He is still alive today.
Hi Galaga,

It sounds like an incredibly traumatic experience finding your dad hanging and trying to rescue him. I imagine not being believed about such a core memory felt quite invalidating. I believe the core of what you’re saying.

As a victim of childhood trauma myself, an insight I’ll share is I’ve learned to trust what I saw, heard, and felt—but to question the meanings i ascribed to the events or that were suggested to me as a child. As an example, an 8y/o me thought I was clever to frequently escape a 16y/o sister trying to kill me and my mom with a chef’s knife. Her slashes sometimes tore clothes but never made serious cuts. In retrospect, if a 16y/o frequently wanted to kill their 8y/o sibling especially when they were home alone he’d be in an ER or dead. That was me as a child imagining I had more understanding, influence, and control over events than I did. That required adult processing with a therapist’s help.

Again, alcoholism and suicidal thoughts are so important. I’m glad you’re getting some help. I hope you get as much support as you can. This could be a life-changing experience, the sort of 180 that hopefully saves your marriage and if not revamps your life.

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I've come to the realisation that this group isn't for me until I get my ducks in a row.
And work on me.
I might be back. I might not.

But for someone to push their own experience and taint me with it doesn't sit well.

For those who genuinely want to save their marriages I wish you the best and I'm off on my self discovery.

Love to all.

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Originally Posted by Galaga
I've come to the realisation that this group isn't for me until I get my ducks in a row.
And work on me.
I might be back. I might not.

But for someone to push their own experience and taint me with it doesn't sit well.

For those who genuinely want to save their marriages I wish you the best and I'm off on my self discovery.

Love to all.

I’m sorry I negatively effected you the way I have. I took what you said at face value. You have a drinking issue and your father attempted suicide and didn’t breath for 15 mins. I commend you for being able to perform CPR for 15 mins. That’s absolutely exhausting, and I can’t imagine how you felt or how you handled it physically or mentally. Most professionals can’t do it.

I’m sorry I’m commenting again, but I hate to see you leave because of one poster (me). If I chose that path I’d be lost. This community is fantastic and supportive at its core.

I wish you nothing but the best, but I will say and would continue to say to anyone, drinking in such a horrible situation may make you feel better temporarily but it’s nothing but an avenue of pain and misery. And I would venture to guess deep down you know it, and the fact you continue to drink shows you need professional help.

I wish you nothing but the best. And I hope you get IC that helps you.

Good luck good sir.


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Originally Posted by Joseph
That’s absolutely exhausting, and I can’t imagine how you felt or how you handled it physically or mentally. Most professionals can’t do it
In the life or death situations I’ve been in, when “fight” mode was active, adrenaline’s allowed me to do extraordinary things. I do recall from CPR class how surprisingly tiring even five minutes of compressions of adequate depth can be.

@Galaga, sending love your way. I get you’ve been through a lot. I am certain hurting you or tainting your experience was the last thing on Joseph’s mind. We’ll be here if you change your mind. I hope you find good support for your drinking and darker thoughts.

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Hey Galaga,
I just wanted to post one more time, and offer the support from the forum. I know you still log on and occasionally check.

So let me say this, I am truly sorry. In no way shape or form was I trying to belittle or down play what you went through with your father. I read it wrong and reacted. If it helps, you did teach me I need to ask more questions and get more facts before I react. So I do appreciate you helping me learn that lesson.

I also hope you are continuing to keep the drinking under control and going to group and your IC.

I promise if you come back I will stay out of your threads. I know I will be a trigger, and I know you felt judged and this wasn’t a safe place anymore. It does bother me that I may have gotten in the way of someone who truly needed help and support and I ran them off. That’s completely on me, and that has nothing to do with you.

Anyway, I know i keep saying I’ll stay off your thread, but I have seen you logging in and not posting, so I am hoping that maybe you’ll see this and this will help you get back on the saddle so to speak.

If not, I understand and please again accept my apology. And know no matter what path you choose regardless of your wife comes back or not, the pain will ease. Things will get better. But I do hope you allow the other posters on the site to help guide you through the process.


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