Hoping things are getting better

[Traveler]

Can you explain a bit more what you mean by "taking action"?

I would have kissed her.

or

I would have got up and moved away.


(All depending on how I read her body language and facial expressions and tones etc) or (how I wanted the interaction to go)

I was thinking exactly that--I was baffled that you took an interaction where you were connecting romantically, and started apologizing for your shortcoming. In my experience, confusing behaviors like yours come from a confused mind. I've been there. Do you want to reconnect romantically? Maybe you have not figured that out. Figure that out. Then, the next time, you can either move in for the kill or walk away depending on what you actually want from your marriage now.

I don't think your situation is hopeless. You stonewalled for a year, she told you she wanted a divorce, and she told you she was having an affair--hardly the worst of WAWs. A mutual desire to R and leave behind As seems required to R if monogamy is important to you. Note, there are couples here who R'd after an A here, and the apology came much later (see May's thread). I'm curious, in all these R talks, has she said she's done or willing to be done sleeping with other men? Have you asked? Has she come up with or otherwise expressed anything she's willing to do to work on the marriage? How will your own working on the marriage look different before and after third parties are out of the picture?

At one point I walked off, then I came back and apologised for walking off.

Walking off to cool down is actually advised by Gottman, whom I know you're studying. Apologizing when you're wrong is great--take care not to over-apologize for other reasons.

[Ready2Change]

RTC- you would have kissed your wife when she admitted to being physical with another man and has no remorse because it technically wasn’t cheating because she wasn’t in love with him ?

I would have picked the other option. I most likely would have made different choices and not been in that sitch in the first place.

[detachA]

So...as soon as she reeled you in and confirmed she had you on the hook she let you go. She knows she has power over you and can manipulate you with even the faintest sign of a potential kiss. Notice as soon as you showed weakness she pulled away.

You are right, I should have stood up and moved away and not allowed any R talk to proceed.

She got information out of you, which you had been planning to keep secret. Remember tell her generally you know, but not exactly what you know or how you know it.

I need to remember this. But to be honest Im not even going to check that burner phone again, it only makes me feel bad when I see their conversation.

That's pretty weak. She's having an affair and you're the one apologizing...for walking off?

This is more about me trying to avoid sulking off and stonewalling her.

She said I should not be spying or keeping track on her as this will only make things worse.
Translation: she wants you to stop spying so she doesn't get caught. If she wanted to reconcile she'd want you to check up on her to prove to you she's true to you.

I agree I don't think she wants to reconcile at the moment. However, I think I am seeing definite signs of softening. She has agreed that she wants "Me" to work on the marriage and she has said that having the recent family time makes her very happy. Also me oldest son has been acting up a lot recently. Since my wife and I have started talking again his behaviour has been dramatically improving. I mention that this was the case by saying "His behaviour is better when you and I behave better" She said "Maybe", then about 30 seconds later said "Not maybe, definitely". I think if I continue to LRT small steps will build on top of the already small steps that have occurred.

She is MARRIED to you. She doesn't get to sleep with other people just because "she feels she's already separated". That's cheating, period. You need to work on your stonewalling, for sure. An entire year is an extremely long time in a relationship not to talk to your spouse, and it likely won't be healed soon if at all, but cheating is cheating. You're making excuses for her because you want her back. Don't.

I'm not giving her excuses, what she has done is very painful. However, I can see how I contributed to her feeling lonely and neglected over a very long period of time.
Right now there is nothing I can do if she wants to see other men, I am hoping the relationship can be repaired over time.

[detachA]

S,

The staycation was a bad idea period. You end up in a relationship talk that includes her talking to you about having sex with another man and then you want to cuddle. It’s very weak behavior.

Right now she knows you’re desperate to save the marriage and is going to use your uncontrollable behavior against you. I understand you you were acting like a prick the last year but there is nothing you can do about that now.

It’s time for some boundaries and there should be some serious consequences if broken.

I thought the staycation was ok, bar the drunk relationship talk. It give us quite a bit of time together during the day, when I just listened and validated her conversation. I few times she asked questions about my job, which I thought was a big step change according to MWD.

She could she my behaviour around the kids and how I spent time with them. She said the family time made her feel really happy. She also told me that everyone enjoyed themselves, when we arrived home.

She is still in bed this morning, I am going to back off a little today and not start any conversation with her and go out on my own.

[detachA]

I was thinking exactly that--I was baffled that you took an interaction where you were connecting romantically, and started apologizing for your shortcoming. In my experience, confusing behaviors like yours come from a confused mind. I've been there. Do you want to reconnect romantically? Maybe you have not figured that out. Figure that out. Then, the next time, you can either move in for the kill or walk away depending on what you actually want from your marriage now.

I think you are right. I was confused that she put herself in that situation and I didn't know how to react, so I just let my mouth blab. Going forward, I am going to try and practice what R4C said above. My job is just to listen and to take action.

I don't think your situation is hopeless.

Im pleased that you do not think the situation is hopeless. Without making excuses for her, I can understand how she felt lonely and neglected throughout the period I was stonewalling her.

she told you she wanted a divorce, and she told you she was having an affair--hardly the worst of WAWs.

Can you explain a bit more what you mean by that?

I'm curious, in all these R talks, has she said she's done or willing to be done sleeping with other men? Have you asked? Has she come up with or otherwise expressed anything she's willing to do to work on the marriage? How will your own working on the marriage look different before and after third parties are out of the picture?

She has said she isn't seeing him anymore. If this is true, I believe this is more to do with him keeping her hanging, as he is probably seeing several other people, rather than anything to do with her stopping seeing him.
I have told her that we cannot work on the relationship if a third party is involved. She has agreed without saying directly that she will stop seeing men. She has said that she is observing the changes I am making and she can see how hard I am trying. She has said that I should continue in this manner. She has said that family time makes her very happy.

I think at this point she doesn't want to reconcile or show that she is wanting me to reconcile because she has seen it all before and believes that any changes will not last.

Having said that, I can notice a definite softening. She is talking to me, she doesnt flinch if I brush against her arm while we are talking. She lets me hold her arm when she is stepping off a bus or down a large step. She has become more involved with the kids than she has been for ages and she is doing some laundry and housework, which she did not do for a long time. I beleive all these things are a reaction to our relationship dynamic caused by the changes I am implementing by doing LRT.

Walking off to cool down is actually advised by Gottman, whom I know you're studying. Apologizing when you're wrong is great--take care not to over-apologize for other reasons.

Yes the apology was for me raising my voice and walking off. BL42 thinks I was weak for doing this, but may DB coach says I should apologise immediately if I revert to my old behaviours.

[detachA]

Note, there are couples here who R'd after an A here, and the apology came much later (see May's thread).

I cannot seem to find this thread, do you have a link?

[LH19]

What she is doing right now is what we call cake eating. She has family time and then runs off and sleeps with other men. WWs love to stuff their faces with cake.

Now that your home she will retreat because she doesn’t want you to get her hope up. It’s time to GAL like a mad man.

[detachA]

What she is doing right now is what we call cake eating. She has family time and then runs off and sleeps with other men. WWs love to stuff their faces with cake.

Now that your home she will retreat because she doesn’t want you to get her hope up. It’s time to GAL like a mad man.

You are probably right. My DB coach thinks I should accept all the family time I can get as this may help her see what she is missing and what is more important in life. Do you not think this is a correct approach? I dont think I can do anything about other men at the moment, but I think having family time is a LRT good idea.

She has retreated today, she has not come out of her bedroom. Instead of hanging around waiting I have tried to GAL by going out for lunch, I am also going to go to the cinema tonight.

[LH19]

So scared I have the value of hindsight. If I could do it over again I would have divorced my ex the minute I found her texting my neighbor. Just something I would never tolerate again. You absolutely can’t make this better with another party involved. So you can go along playing happy family but it will be excruciatingly painful when you don’t get the outcome you desire.

Look I know you feel horrible about how you acted. We all have been there. You have to give yourself a break and understand you did the best you could with the tools you had at the time. The greatest teacher is learning from your mistakes.

Your DB coach isn’t wrong. I just don’t think they take into account that a LBS has a difficult time controlling their emotions and having lofty expectations. If you have trouble with either it usually makes your situation worse and heights the pain. I am more in favor of time and space because that’s the only thing IMO that works long-term.

[SteveLW]

she has said that having the recent family time makes her very happy.

Of course it does! She gets to go off, meet men, have sex, and then come home to play house. She gets to have her cake, and eat it too.

Look scaredA, I know you're trying. But your problem is right in your screen name. "Scared". Fear is your enemy. It will make you do things out of weakness. Like buying here an expensive handbag to get her to stay. You have to start focusing on you and your kids. Quit focusing on her. I know that is difficult, but it's the only way you'll ever move forward. Most WWs will cake eat forever if you let them. At some point you have to realize that being D'd is better than being walked all over.