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Originally Posted by CurtisO
"I cannot SEE a world without my INTACT family."

I admit now that this was an irrational statement made in a very emotional state. I CAN, in fact, see that world...and it [censored] and it doesn't have to be that way.

We all go through the "why me" phase. I am going to tell you that being willing to embrace your new reality is the only way that it might turn around. Fighting it, resisting it, and trying to change it will result in behaviors that are detrimental to your situation. Not beneficial. So vent here, but when it comes to interacting with her you need to be cool as a cucumber.

Originally Posted by CurtisO
My reality seems to be that my WAW is VERY comfortable with her vision of moving forward.

It is worse than this. It isn't just that she is VERY comfortable with her vision.......it is the only way she sees to move forward that results in her ending up happy. Some of the best advice I got from an expert early on in my situation was that my W was just trying to be happy. It wasn't personal against me, it wasn't her trying to hurt me, it wasn't her just trying to blow things up......she just wanted to be happy. When you frame her actions in those terms the question comes up: Do you love her enough that you want her to be happy no matter what? Even if it means not staying with you? Or is your love a selfish love that wants what is only best for you?

Once your W goes wayward, which it sounds like yours has, she will not even consider staying in the marriage as an option. And the more you try to get her to the more she will think she is doing the right thing by leaving you.

Originally Posted by CurtisO
Our conversations seem to center around choosing the least bad of a bunch of bad options, most of which don't seem so bad to her. Daughter will adjust, W will be better off alone, etc. I am typically a very logical person and NONE of this makes any sense to me.

Trying to make sense of a wayward wife's actions is never going to result in anything logical. They are the most illogical creatures on the planet. So trying to talk sense to her is only going to make her angry and frustrated. Anything that doesn't support what she is doing, she will resist. That is why pressure and pursuit has almost no chance of ever working.

Originally Posted by CurtisO
I would really like to know WHY my home and work over the last 37 years has to be dismantled!!

Again, venting here with this kind of statement is great, but do not let it cloud your actions with her.


Originally Posted by CurtisO
If my WAW is in a new relationship, I don't know it...or even how she found the time. She is home every night, in bed early to be up by 3:30am. I don't ask because it might just be none of my business...almost certainly so from her perspective.

I have a friend that cheated on her husband. When my situation started I conferred with her. My WW was in an EA with a man several states away. This friend kept insisting that my W was cheating on me physically. I insisted there was no way she could be with her schedule and where I knew she was, etc. Her response stopped me in my tracks:

"Steve, a woman will go to any lengths necessary to find a way to cheat!" (Note, I am sure cheating men will do the same.)

I was at work all day. She could have been coming and going as she pleased. Heck she could have had someone coming to the house! She could have been having a quickie in the parking lot of my daughter's school after she dropped her off. It doesn't take a lot of time for someone to cheat.

In my situation it turns out her cheating was all virtual. Nude pics, maybe phone calls (or video calls) with them doing things to themselves. The point is: that was still finding a way to cheat.

Originally Posted by CurtisO
Experts and lay-people alike are advising me that I have a solid case for spousal maintenance and I will likely seek it, which will certainly drive yet another wedge between us. "Don't start fights or arguments..." Well, that's gonna be the mother of all arguments!!

Do you need spousal maintenance? Is going after spousal maintenance an alpha or a beta behavior? Is it going to make you look more attractive or less attractive in her eyes? Do not do it just because you can. Only do it if it is required in your situation. We had a man that was disabled and fully supported by his cheating wife here recently. I would advise him to go for spousal support because it was a necessity.

Oh, and if you are doing it thinking it will wake her up, well, I am afraid those are the kind of expectations that will disappoint you. If you do not need spousal support, and go for it anyway, you will end up D'd and on spousal support (and usually it ain't very much) almost for sure.

Last edited by SteveLW; 10/26/21 01:03 PM.

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Originally Posted by SteveLW
Do you need spousal maintenance? Is going after spousal maintenance an alpha or a beta behavior? Is it going to make you look more attractive or less attractive in her eyes? Do not do it just because you can. Only do it if it is required in your situation. We had a man that was disabled and fully supported by his cheating wife here recently. I would advise him to go for spousal support because it was a necessity.

Oh, and if you are doing it thinking it will wake her up, well, I am afraid those are the kind of expectations that will disappoint you. If you do not need spousal support, and go for it anyway, you will end up D'd and on spousal support (and usually it ain't very much) almost for sure.

I am 55 and collecting a disability pension from the fire department. I CANNOT return to
first-responders-type work without legal jeopardy. While I do work part-time now in a field that I LOVE, I'm not sure it is sustainable as full-time work.

I DO NOT want to ask for support, but real estate/rent in this area is crazy expensive. To rent a small house in our current neighborhood/school (where we want our daughter to stay) would consume all of my pension. A small apartment nearby would cost over 1/2 of it. The most affordable option would likely be a small manufactured home in a 55+ community, but there are typically no children living nearby, no one for my daughter to be with. I would not seek support to enrich myself or punish my W (although....I have worked hard for 37 years, on my own and with my W, to get where I am now. Am I really supposed to give it all up and start over, just because SHE says so?!?! Yes, there is some anger there).

If I have to seek support, it would be to help me maintain as much "normal" for our daughter as possible...and likely be the death knell for ANY chance at reconciliation. This is a terrible Catch-22

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Originally Posted by CurtisO
If I have to seek support, it would be to help me maintain as much "normal" for our daughter as possible...and likely be the death knell for ANY chance at reconciliation. This is a terrible Catch-22
If there is a reconciliation it will have nothing to do with support. It will be because her old life is better then her new life. This will likely take years for her to figure out. All your decisions moving forward are what's best for you and your daughter.

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CurtisO,
Originally Posted by SteveLW
Do you need spousal maintenance? Is going after spousal maintenance an alpha or a beta behavior? Is it going to make you look more attractive or less attractive in her eyes? Do not do it just because you can. Only do it if it is required in your situation.

Oh, and if you are doing it thinking it will wake her up, well, I am afraid those are the kind of expectations that will disappoint you. If you do not need spousal support, and go for it anyway, you will end up D'd and on spousal support (and usually it ain't very much) almost for sure.

Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by CurtisO
If I have to seek support, it would be to help me maintain as much "normal" for our daughter as possible...and likely be the death knell for ANY chance at reconciliation. This is a terrible Catch-22
If there is a reconciliation it will have nothing to do with support. It will be because her old life is better then her new life. This will likely take years for her to figure out. All your decisions moving forward are what's best for you and your daughter.
I'm with LH on this one. Can't say I understand why, IF she decides to D you, you wouldn't take what is legally/rightfully yours. You don't need to fight about it now - if she pursues a divorce let your lawyer advise you on your rights and negotiate an equitable agreement under the law. I wouldn't pass on anything you're entitled to financially (whether it's spousal support or child support) just because "it's not alpha behavior" or on the hope it makes you look stronger not to take it. I don't believe she won't reconcile with you simply because of what your L negotiated in a D.


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BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20
OM1 affair ends: May '20
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Originally Posted by CurtisO
Originally Posted by SteveLW
Do you need spousal maintenance? Is going after spousal maintenance an alpha or a beta behavior? Is it going to make you look more attractive or less attractive in her eyes? Do not do it just because you can. Only do it if it is required in your situation. We had a man that was disabled and fully supported by his cheating wife here recently. I would advise him to go for spousal support because it was a necessity.

Oh, and if you are doing it thinking it will wake her up, well, I am afraid those are the kind of expectations that will disappoint you. If you do not need spousal support, and go for it anyway, you will end up D'd and on spousal support (and usually it ain't very much) almost for sure.

I am 55 and collecting a disability pension from the fire department. I CANNOT return to
first-responders-type work without legal jeopardy. While I do work part-time now in a field that I LOVE, I'm not sure it is sustainable as full-time work.

I DO NOT want to ask for support, but real estate/rent in this area is crazy expensive. To rent a small house in our current neighborhood/school (where we want our daughter to stay) would consume all of my pension. A small apartment nearby would cost over 1/2 of it. The most affordable option would likely be a small manufactured home in a 55+ community, but there are typically no children living nearby, no one for my daughter to be with. I would not seek support to enrich myself or punish my W (although....I have worked hard for 37 years, on my own and with my W, to get where I am now. Am I really supposed to give it all up and start over, just because SHE says so?!?! Yes, there is some anger there).

If I have to seek support, it would be to help me maintain as much "normal" for our daughter as possible...and likely be the death knell for ANY chance at reconciliation. This is a terrible Catch-22

Sounds like the support will be necessary. As was pointed out, R will either happen or not regardless of what you decide on support. You shouldn't be making decisions regarding future R anyway. My only point in my last post was that manipulation attempts almost always backfire, so don't engage in them. Do what is best for your daughter and you.

I know going through this is difficult. Everyone here can relate.


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Originally Posted by CurtisO
My reality seems to be that my WAW is VERY comfortable with her vision of moving forward. Our conversations seem to center around choosing the least bad of a bunch of bad options, most of which don't seem so bad to her. Daughter will adjust, W will be better off alone, etc. I am typically a very logical person and NONE of this makes any sense to me. I would really like to know WHY my home and work over the last 37 years has to be dismantled!!
Everyone feels like their situation is unique, and there must be some answer, some solution they just haven't discovered that is within their control. There isn't. You don't have an option that doesn't suck. You have to pick the least sucky option of all the sucky options you have and learn to accept that. The option that [censored] the least is protecting yourself by giving yourself emotional space.

Distance from her emotionally, but be happy, upbeat, successful and positive on your own. Fake it until you make it. That is quite literally all you can do, and that, my friend, is a very bitter pill to swallow.

Although it's impossible for you to see at the time, this is 100% survivable no matter how it goes. I've been happier divorced than I was for years being married. I 100% believe in marriage, and I miss the feeling and comfort of "being a family" but I do not miss my ex at all, and her behavior should not have been tolerated for as long as it was. At the time I couldn't see it, I thought she was the most wonderful woman ever, and that certainly I could fix this. I was wrong on both counts.

This is the value of hind sight, and unfortunately for most people, you can't absorb it until you're ready.

Instead of wondering how to react to your W's moves, focus on removing your fear. Where would you live if you separated? Go look at some options, see what it costs and what it would look like. Meet with a lawyer and understand your financial situation. Start separating your finances.

Fear largely results from the unknown. Figure out the reality behind your fears. If nothing else, the knowledge is comforting even though you may not like the answers. Don't just give it lip service, actually go out and look at some places you might rent. Walk through them, touch them, make it real. Understand that you have options and you are not just a passenger in her sidecar, doomed to ride where she drives you.

Having to tell them that XW would be moving out was one of the hardest days of my life leading up to that moment, but once it was done it was a tremendous relief. Kids are resilient. They process the change and they carry on, faster than adults do.

Your daughter cannot have the life back that she had -- she can't. Your W's actions have removed that as a possibility. Seeing you stand up for yourself and continuing to love and support her is a great example to set.

Sometimes things don't work out the way you wanted but you can still have a wonderful life, despite the change. I'm sure your daughter won't suffer for learning that lesson.

How are my kids doing now? Honestly they are doing GREAT! Do they like going back and forth between houses? No. Do they like that their family traditions, like vacations together and restaurant meals as a family have been disrupted? No. But they do feel loved by both of us, they know that we are there for them, they have each other, and that is more than enough. Believe me it is.

You can own and address and pick up the pieces from your own shortcomings and bad decisions. You can't fix the mess your wife has wrought. Your best path forward is to get away from her right now. Drop the rope. That is your only chance of having her come back around. Make it worse in order to make it better, it's the shortest path.

The path of half-measures leads to prolonged limbo and agony.

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Originally Posted by CurtisO
I would really like to know WHY my home and work over the last 37 years has to be dismantled!!

There are so many reasons WHY. The post above by LH19 is a great response.


It is a big onion with many layers to process. This has happened to countless number of couples. There are countless number of reasons. Somewhere this is human nature. There are exceptions to this, but you are not and are now part of the club.


One of the books I read, radical forgiveness, gave me a new perspective on the WHY. It does not mean that it is right (or wrong) but rather another possible WHY. Maybe this is something you need to experience? I always say it was the best worst thing that happened to me. I would not have experienced the personal growth if I did not go through this process.



Originally Posted by CurtisO
I am typically a very logical person and NONE of this makes any sense to me.
This is because it is an emotional (or feelings) issue. Use your logic to DB. Understand the the new tools and start behaving different.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
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