I am 55, been married for 19 years, father of the perfect 11 year old girl...I know EVERYONE says that, but... My wife and I have drifted slowly apart since my daughter's birth...same old story, too tired, too busy, too EVERYTHING, so I focused on being the very best daddy I could be....at the expense of being a decent husband. In 2014, I was forced out of the fire dept for health reasons and I began to drift, unable to find a new role for myself. I sank into a deep and devastating depression, unable to lift myself out because (as many depression victims know) THERE IS NO OUT WHEN YOU ARE DOWN THERE!! I couldn't even turn to the one person who could saved me. I became convinced that "Happy" was for other people, not me. In 2019, my wife came home and asked why we were still living in MI when we had always planned to move west when I retired. I didn't have an answer, so, six months later, we were moving into our new home in Phoenix. Things started to improve for me; I can see hope instead of hopelessness, I started to plan and dream again, instead of just existing, I found work that I love (no, truly!!), but.... My wife and I got no closer...we had become roommates, 2 people living in the same house, raising the same child in our appropriate shifts. She finally broke and told me we were circling the drain. We committed to counseling/therapy, attended to pair sessions and 1 individual session each. 3 days after her session, she informed me that she was done, that she doesn't want to anymore. I am as committed to reconciliation as ever...I cannot SEE a world without my INTACT family. Our therapist suggested [/u]The Divorce Remedy[u], and I am most of the way through...tough lessons, some very difficult to implement, but I need to do the HARD WORK...we did the easy part already...NOTHING and look where THAT got us. Right now, I am living daily life, trying to be the best version of myself, but I am living in absolute terror
Curtis, sorry man. Very common tale.
As others have warned, brace yourself for the possibility of another man. New town. New acquaintances. New opportunities. We used to have a pretty common mantra around here: A monkey doesn't jump from the branch it is on until it finds another branch that can support it. The point is that no matter how bad a R is, most people do not pull the plug until they have met someone new.
The good news is that it changes NOTHING you should be doing. Remove all focus from her. Focus on yourself. Go out and GAL like a madman. Every minute you aren't with your daughter, you are busy. Hanging with the guys, going fishing, going hiking/running/walking. Avoid members of the opposite sex, but go out and develop deep bonds with other guys, and spend time with them. Keep working on you and self-improving in any and all ways that you can. And detach from her. Get to a place where your emotions are in check no matter what she says or does. Find the happy inside of you, and go live everyday.
Let her go to figure out her own stuff. Ultimately it is her decision. It takes two committed indivduals to make a MR work. It only takes one of the two to make a D. SO do not focus on what you cannot control, go out and keep the focus on the one thing you can: YOU! Become the best versions of you that you can be, a version only a fool would leave!
Remember 20 years ago when you two first met? You know what intrigued her about you? It was that you had a whole life that she knew nothing about. Go out and recapture that! She'll either be intrigued by it or she won't, but you will have a great life to live either way!
Finally, drop fear. Fear doesn't make it stronger, it doesn't cause us to make our best decisions. (I am thinking of the TV commercial here where the kids are running from the chainsaw killer and decide to hide in his garage instead of hopping into the running car!) Feel the fear, realize it, then let it go. You are going to be ok no matter what happens. The sooner you realize that the sooner you can start moving forward with your life.
Oh, one more thing! (Finally really this time.) Do not dwell on the past mistakes. The point of DR is for you to forge ahead better and stronger today, not look back with regrets at water under the bridge that you cannot change. What happened yesterday, last week, last month, last year and ten years ago is not as important as what you decide to do right now, today. So focus on that, not on the past.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
We HAVE NOT been close or physically intimate for some time. From my perspective, she simply lost interest in sex and the rejection became too tiresome to endure, so I stopped trying, both sexually and in the mundane little everyday ways (thouches, hugs, etc). I was always willing if she initiated sex, but that was rare. Now, of course, I crave nothing more that a simple touch or caress...
A very common tale as well. For women, attraction follows respect. They cannot be attracted to a man they do not respect. So looking at your tale: Lost a job, wallowed in self-pity and depression. Didn't follow through on a promise (moving after retirement) until nudged. What we have here is a recipe for a W to lose respect for her H.
You then, in retaliation remove all now sexual affection. One thing I have learned the hard way in my own MR is that if the only time you touch a women is when you want to have sex, then sex will become something that rarely happens. Touching, hugging, kissing, rubbing, massaging, holding, etc must all exist outside of sex for sex to happen. Again think about how you were when you were dating. Holding hands, sitting close, kissing and hugging for hi and bye, etc. Non-sexual affection has to be part of the R or sexual affection will never happen.
Please understand, I do not say all of that to hurt you, but to open your eyes to the dynamics at play here. We have to learn from our situations or we will be doomed to repeat them. So take this opportunity you have been given to learn and improve for the future, no matter what it holds!
Now, I should also caution you that trying to fix this now is NOT a good idea. Do not start trying to hug, and kiss, and rub, and caress. It is too late for that, that would have to come later if and when a reconciliation were to occur. So do not try those things, stick to focusing on yourself, GAL, continuing to self-improve and detach.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
So, I'm following the steps...no confrontations, live my life, no stalking, no begging, pleasant as I can be (more, I think, given the circumstances). I have been job-hunting, apartment hunting, working when I can, maintaining as normal a schedule for our daughter as I can...
Per the book, I have moved on to trying little changes to monitor the result and....the ONLY positive responses I get from WAW are when I am agreeing and cooperating with her plan. We sat down last night to discuss custody arrangements...very "pleasant" conversation. If I mention where I plan to live after (One bedroom apartment, initially...I sleep on couch on my weeks), she is enthusiastic. When I discuss full-time employment (as a 55 year old disabled firefighter and stay-at-home dad, so imagine the work I am looking at), she becomes very supportive ("An afternoons job at an Amazon warehouse?!? That sounds GREAT!!!)
If I even HINT at the real logistics of a split family, if I dare to suggest that I do not understand how this is happening so quickly or why, the ice wall is INSTANTLY erected and she turns vicious ("That's YOUR problem!!!"). This viciousness is the worst part...this IS NOT the woman I married and lived with for 19 years...or even the same woman as 6 months ago!!
I am trying! This is as much pain as I have ever endured and the confusion is not helping, but I am TRYING, but I feel as if I am politely cooperating with my own divorce, when it is the very last thing I want.
So, I'm following the steps...no confrontations, live my life, no stalking, no begging, pleasant as I can be (more, I think, given the circumstances). I have been job-hunting, apartment hunting, working when I can, maintaining as normal a schedule for our daughter as I can...
All good stuff! Keep it up!
Originally Posted by CurtisO
Per the book, I have moved on to trying little changes to monitor the result and....the ONLY positive responses I get from WAW are when I am agreeing and cooperating with her plan. We sat down last night to discuss custody arrangements...very "pleasant" conversation. If I mention where I plan to live after (One bedroom apartment, initially...I sleep on couch on my weeks), she is enthusiastic. When I discuss full-time employment (as a 55 year old disabled firefighter and stay-at-home dad, so imagine the work I am looking at), she becomes very supportive ("An afternoons job at an Amazon warehouse?!? That sounds GREAT!!!)
If I even HINT at the real logistics of a split family, if I dare to suggest that I do not understand how this is happening so quickly or why, the ice wall is INSTANTLY erected and she turns vicious ("That's YOUR problem!!!"). This viciousness is the worst part...this IS NOT the woman I married and lived with for 19 years...or even the same woman as 6 months ago!!
Don't start fights or arguments, but also don't just do everything she wants in hopes she'll come around. A common saying around here is "you can't NICE her back". If she's having an affair and wants to be done, you just going along with everything to make her happy won't change things.
Consult a lawyer!!! At the very least so you know your rights and are reassured about what you'll get should a divorce happen. If you've been a stay at home dad for a long time and she has a good career you're likely looking at spousal maintenance, child support, and pension/retirement money from her. As the primary caregiver you may even have an edge when it comes to custody. You should understand what your rights are, and any implications getting a new place or job or any custody arrangement will have on those, before you agree to anything in writing or in practice.
Originally Posted by CurtisO
I am trying! This is as much pain as I have ever endured and the confusion is not helping, but I am TRYING, but I feel as if I am politely cooperating with my own divorce, when it is the very last thing I want.
Keep trying! It most likely will not be a quick fix. A week or a month of trying isn't going to cut it...you have to keep it up for a LONG period of time. Make changes to better your entire life going forward.
Last edited by BL42; 10/25/2101:49 PM.
Me:39 Ex-W:37 M:7 T: 9 S:6 D:3 BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20 OM1 affair ends: May '20 W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20 W files for D: Jul20 OM2 confirmed: 9/2020 Divorced: May '21
Curtis, did you read all of the responses to your previous thread?
You need to stop worrying about her reactions. It sounds like she is in a new R, and any feedback that gets her into a fulltime position to pursue the new R is not an option for her.
The biggest problem I see from your OP is this comment:
"I cannot SEE a world without my INTACT family."
That is the biggest 180 you can make right now. You have to see and realize and understand that no matter what she decides, stay or go, you will be okay. You have a little time left on this earth (about the same age as me), I would hate to see you wasting it waiting for someone that doesn't want to be with you.
One of my favorite quotes from The Shawshank Redemption: "Get busy living or get busy dying." I choose the former................
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Glad you came back. You should post your update in your previous thread instead of starting a new one. One of the moderators might merge them:
Originally Posted by CurtisO
So, I'm following the steps...no confrontations, live my life, no stalking, no begging, pleasant as I can be (more, I think, given the circumstances). I have been job-hunting, apartment hunting, working when I can, maintaining as normal a schedule for our daughter as I can...
All good stuff! Keep it up!
Originally Posted by CurtisO
Per the book, I have moved on to trying little changes to monitor the result and....the ONLY positive responses I get from WAW are when I am agreeing and cooperating with her plan. We sat down last night to discuss custody arrangements...very "pleasant" conversation. If I mention where I plan to live after (One bedroom apartment, initially...I sleep on couch on my weeks), she is enthusiastic. When I discuss full-time employment (as a 55 year old disabled firefighter and stay-at-home dad, so imagine the work I am looking at), she becomes very supportive ("An afternoons job at an Amazon warehouse?!? That sounds GREAT!!!)
If I even HINT at the real logistics of a split family, if I dare to suggest that I do not understand how this is happening so quickly or why, the ice wall is INSTANTLY erected and she turns vicious ("That's YOUR problem!!!"). This viciousness is the worst part...this IS NOT the woman I married and lived with for 19 years...or even the same woman as 6 months ago!!
Don't start fights or arguments, but also don't just do everything she wants in hopes she'll come around. A common saying around here is "you can't NICE her back". If she's having an affair and wants to be done, you just going along with everything to make her happy won't change things.
Consult a lawyer!!! At the very least so you know your rights and are reassured about what you'll get should a divorce happen. If you've been a stay at home dad for a long time and she has a good career you're likely looking at spousal maintenance, child support, and pension/retirement money from her. As the primary caregiver you may even have an edge when it comes to custody. You should understand what your rights are, and any implications getting a new place or job or any custody arrangement will have on those, before you agree to anything in writing or in practice.
Originally Posted by CurtisO
I am trying! This is as much pain as I have ever endured and the confusion is not helping, but I am TRYING, but I feel as if I am politely cooperating with my own divorce, when it is the very last thing I want.
Keep trying! It most likely will not be a quick fix. A week or a month of trying isn't going to cut it...you have to keep it up for a LONG period of time. Make changes to better your entire life going forward.
I admit now that this was an irrational statement made in a very emotional state. I CAN, in fact, see that world...and it [censored] and it doesn't have to be that way.
My reality seems to be that my WAW is VERY comfortable with her vision of moving forward. Our conversations seem to center around choosing the least bad of a bunch of bad options, most of which don't seem so bad to her. Daughter will adjust, W will be better off alone, etc. I am typically a very logical person and NONE of this makes any sense to me. I would really like to know WHY my home and work over the last 37 years has to be dismantled!!
If my WAW is in a new relationship, I don't know it...or even how she found the time. She is home every night, in bed early to be up by 3:30am. I don't ask because it might just be none of my business...almost certainly so from her perspective.
Experts and lay-people alike are advising me that I have a solid case for spousal maintenance and I will likely seek it, which will certainly drive yet another wedge between us. "Don't start fights or arguments..." Well, that's gonna be the mother of all arguments!!
Experts and lay-people alike are advising me that I have a solid case for spousal maintenance and I will likely seek it, which will certainly drive yet another wedge between us. "Don't start fights or arguments..." Well, that's gonna be the mother of all arguments!!
Don't argue. If that's not already a 180, then make it one. If you two can't agree on spousal maintenance, defer it to your laywers, and if they can't agree (rare), defer it to a judge.
Heated words won't do anything to improve the exchange.
Originally Posted by Curtis0
If I mention where I plan to live after (One bedroom apartment, initially...I sleep on couch on my weeks), she is enthusiastic. When I discuss full-time employment (as a 55 year old disabled firefighter and stay-at-home dad, so imagine the work I am looking at), she becomes very supportive ("An afternoons job at an Amazon warehouse?!? That sounds GREAT!!!)
Normally, D negotiations center on things you two need to agree to--e.g., division of assets, custody schedule, etc. What's your purpose in telling her your personal plans after D? It sounds like you resent her responding supportively. What response were you aiming for by sharing that?
My reality seems to be that my WAW is VERY comfortable with her vision of moving forward.
Very possible, even likely she's comfortable with it...at least at the present. It's also possible her view changes after you start moving on, or she starts paying spousal support, or the affair partner and/or dating pool doesn't turn out the way she had hoped or fantasized about.
Originally Posted by CurtisO
If my WAW is in a new relationship, I don't know it...or even how she found the time. She is home every night, in bed early to be up by 3:30am. I don't ask because it might just be none of my business...almost certainly so from her perspective.
Obviously none of us her know for sure if she's in another relationship. What we can tell you is it seems like the vast majority of cases on here have another person involved, whether it comes out immediately or down the road...even when the poster swears up and down there can't possibly be anyone else involved because "there's no time/opportunity for it" or "they promised me there's no one else".
Originally Posted by CurtisO
Experts and lay-people alike are advising me that I have a solid case for spousal maintenance and I will likely seek it, which will certainly drive yet another wedge between us. "Don't start fights or arguments..." Well, that's gonna be the mother of all arguments!!
You don't need to argue about it. If it comes to divorce the lawyers will hash it out - you don't need to engage her on it at all. However, do not think that by offering to "be nice" and waive spousal maintenance it's going to make her want to all of sudden reconcile. If it comes to it, make sure to protect yourself and get what you're entitled to.
Me:39 Ex-W:37 M:7 T: 9 S:6 D:3 BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20 OM1 affair ends: May '20 W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20 W files for D: Jul20 OM2 confirmed: 9/2020 Divorced: May '21
