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Originally Posted by ScaredA
1) Be angry, but not rude/critical
I love this. Apply to all relationships and people.

Originally Posted by ScaredA
2) Don't be defensive if the argument is over nothing important
Drop defensiveness, period? Apply to all relationships and people.

Originally Posted by ScaredA
3) Always apologise immediately if I make a mistake - which I will make regularly in this process
If you make an obvious blunder, apologize! But, tread lightly. Books on communication suggest slower apologies where you take the time to understand where you went wrong, how it impacted them, and how to avoid it in the future are more effective than quickly apologizing or over-apologizing which tend to be more for you than for them.

Originally Posted by ScaredA
4) Never go to bed with bad feelings with any of my family
I used to follow this mantra, but when I'm tired and upset I can be terrible at communicating effectively--listening, validating, assessing the importance of something, articulating what I need. It's entirely compatible with Gottman to stick a pin in it, sleep, and discuss the next day. Just don't let it slide into stonewalling or resentment.

Originally Posted by ScaredA
5) Don't initiate conversation/send WhatsApp
Hmm. Maybe initiate some percentage of the communication (<=50%) so all the effort is not on her?

Originally Posted by ScaredA
6) Give my wife lots of physical and emotional space
I love this.

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Originally Posted by scaredA
Point noted, I will stop the saying I do not agree. The other night she shouted a little bit about something I didn't do correctly in front on my son. I didn't respond, I just stood up, left the room and went upstairs (this for me is very hard to do as I am usually argumentative and become defensive and critical in this situation). Later that evening she come upstairs and asked something completely trivial, which was her way of saying sorry and showing the lines of communication are still open. In summary, I'm trying to do what you suggest above
But it's important to communicate to her in a calm manner that being abusive to to you is unacceptable.

Originally Posted by scaredA
Don't get me wrong, I want to do what it takes to restore my relationship with my wife, but I do not want my old relationship, in fact I cannot have my old relationship back, I need a new better relationship, or we will just be divorced in 2,3,5 years rather than right now
This is very good observation.

Originally Posted by scaredA
1) Maintain peace in the house until November
2) Do not say anything critical until November
What do you plan on doing and saying in November?

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Originally Posted by scaredA
Point noted, I will stop the saying I do not agree. The other night she shouted a little bit about something I didn't do correctly in front on my son. I didn't respond, I just stood up, left the room and went upstairs (this for me is very hard to do as I am usually argumentative and become defensive and critical in this situation). Later that evening she come upstairs and asked something completely trivial, which was her way of saying sorry and showing the lines of communication are still open. In summary, I'm trying to do what you suggest above
I'm glad you resisted the urge to shout back! Now, just upgrade with Steve's "I refuse to be spoken to in this manner." before walking away and you're solid. The goal isn't to switch from being aggressive (shouting at her) to passive (accepting being shouted at). Don't shout, and don't accept being shouted at.

Be a strong, unscared ScaredA. wink

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scaredA,
Originally Posted by SteveLW
Originally Posted by scaredA
In the past my wife has complained about several issues:
1) Not doing enough with the kids
2) Being critical/contemptuous
3) Not trusting me
Those are all things you SHOULD improve on! I do not see 1-3 above being things that also cannot be done while at the same time learning to command respect.
Completely agreed, but with the caveat of dropping any expectation that just because you start addressing the items and "fixing" stuff she'll quickly come back to you. DO spend more time with the kids. DO drop the criticism and contempt. DO act more trustworthy. But...do that for yourself and your children. Don't assume that because all of a sudden you're addressing her list it'll change things over night because 1) she may not trust your overnight changes will continue in the long term and 2) she may just be making a list to justify her affair and/or wanting the divorce.

Point is...these items aren't necessarily a check list that will ensure she turns back to you, and all of a sudden "doing everything right" isn't going to fix things, so make improvements for yourself over time because it's the right thing to do.

Originally Posted by scaredA
In my opinion, which I am aware may just be denial, I think she is trying to hurt me as she is very hurt. I think there may be a EA and there may also have been one of sex on a night out (I'm not sure about that). For a full blown affair I really don't know when she would be doing that. She works at the school where my youngest son attends, so she takes and brings him home, so she never stay "late at work". She goes out a lot at the weekends, but that has always been the case, I have never stopped her going out partying, but she is always home by 1 am at the very latest. Some weekends she doesnt go out at all.
Hate to say this, but you know how often on here I've read "I don't know when she could have time for an affair"? They're find a way / time for it if they want. My ExW did the early/late to work thing, but was also sneaking around IN the office DURING work with OM1. They would hook up and listen for anyone coming down the halls. She was at her mom's house for "time for herself" over mother's day weekend, but . Besides the PA, she'd text OM1 late at night while putting my son to bed and even while she was in the same room as me.

Point is...don't assume because you think her time is accounted for she's not having an affair. They find a way.

Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by scaredA
My thought plan is that once she is ready to discuss the relationship, which I am hoping for by Christmas if this continue on the same trajectory, then we can discuss how things need to improve and I can be a bit more forceful in stating my needs.
I would tread carefully here my friend. Sounds like you weren't the greatest husband and right now she could give two $hits about your needs. It's going to take a really long time for her to believe any of these changes. Keep doing your share with the kids without over doing it. This is a marathon not a sprint.
Yeah...dropping expectations. Don't set yourself up for a timeline you'll end up getting disappointed about. This could take a long time.

Originally Posted by LH19
What are you doing for you? Are you getting out of the house? Hobbies? Friends?
Great question! Make sure you're GAL'ing. Do fun activities and meeting new people makes life a lot more fun (or at least bearable) during these sitches.


Me:39 Ex-W:37
M:7 T: 9
S:6 D:3
BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20
OM1 affair ends: May '20
W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20
W files for D: Jul20
OM2 confirmed: 9/2020
Divorced: May '21
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Originally Posted by scaredA
I am also spending a lot of time on the divorce busting process, I'm an engineer so I am pretty methodical.
Just an observation, but it seems like a lot of the sitches have men with engineering/IT/analytical minds as opposed to emotional/passionate minds. Not sure if there's also any correlating with "Nice Guy Syndrome" or "Men are from Mars, Women are Venus" type dynamics? Haven't thought it out (left brain, I know) so maybe I'm way off - just jumped out at me when reading scaredA's comment above and wanted to float it out there.


Me:39 Ex-W:37
M:7 T: 9
S:6 D:3
BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20
OM1 affair ends: May '20
W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20
W files for D: Jul20
OM2 confirmed: 9/2020
Divorced: May '21
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"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
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Originally Posted by BL42
Originally Posted by scaredA
I am also spending a lot of time on the divorce busting process, I'm an engineer so I am pretty methodical.
Just an observation, but it seems like a lot of the sitches have men with engineering/IT/analytical minds as opposed to emotional/passionate minds. Not sure if there's also any correlating with "Nice Guy Syndrome" or "Men are from Mars, Women are Venus" type dynamics? Haven't thought it out (left brain, I know) so maybe I'm way off - just jumped out at me when reading scaredA's comment above and wanted to float it out there.
Yes he is trying to analyze and understand everything so that he can build it into a rational model so that it will never, ever happen to him again. If he can avoid doing X, then Y will never happen. In addition, he wants to unlock this puzzle, to deconstruct it so he can find the solution that will allow him to rebuild it. Finding that key would provide immense comfort.

His brain has convinced itself that getting his W back, or getting W to apologize and declare a desire to have him back is the very best and fastest way to restore his feeling of being in control.

With the benefit of time and distance, he'll realize that's what it's really all about, it's about regaining the ability to feel in control of his life and his future. It really has very little to do with his W or who she is as a person, she's a lever to get him what he wants, but that's really just an illusion.

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What works is counter-intuitive. Having an awareness to respond differently is important. For example, your normal behavior is to argue. Learning to listen and validate when that feeling to argue comes up, takes a lot of focus initially. At some point it becomes natural to validate rather than argue. Validation is about understanding her emotions. Arguing is about you and controlling.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
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So I have confirmed today that there is a physical affair. It has been going on from at least December 2020.

I found she had a burner phone when she was out at work. I could see the whatapps chats from December until at least 20th July this year. The was also a note on her phone dated 6th October "You made me the impression I need to chase you, I never chase a man. Im interested at someone only if it goes two ways" To me this appears they had a falling out around this time, it would time in with the big arguments that we had around then and her staying in bed on day on her birthday, 3rd August. Also I found out who it is, I saw his picture and phone number. No-one I know, I think she has met him on a dating site. The scumbag is also married with 3 kids. I pity his wife and children.

I also found on that phone an alternative WhatsApp account, were she has been talking to and meeting other men, one as recently as Friday 15th, although these appear to not have gone any further at this point.

I am really having to stuggle not to say anything tonight, as I think this would let her know I am aware of the burner phone.

Im really not sure how to proceed. It seems even with all my efforts, she has no desire to change or to finish her affair.

I was thinking of asking like this:

Me: I really dont want to have an argument, but are we trying to repair our marriage?
W: Yes/No
Me: If no, "I dont think we can go any further forward"
Me: If yes,"Are you still seeing anyone else, if you are we cannot really reapair anything"


Im really not sure what to do, I havent eaten all day and feel totally sick.

Thinking about it, im not sure if the above will do anything. Should I just follow MWD advice and dont talk about it, and just keep working on myself and see how things change in the future?

I feel terrible!


End Date 11th August 2022 - One way or the other!
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Originally Posted by scaredA
So I have confirmed today that there is a physical affair. It has been going on from at least December 2020.
I am sorry scared unfortunately 95% of these have other people involved.

Originally Posted by scaredA
Im really not sure how to proceed. It seems even with all my efforts, she has no desire to change or to finish her affair.
You are correct. She is done and has no desire to work on the marriage.

Originally Posted by scaredA
Me: I really dont want to have an argument, but are we trying to repair our marriage?
W: Yes/No
Me: If no, "I dont think we can go any further forward"
Me: If yes,"Are you still seeing anyone else, if you are we cannot really repair anything"
No this is weak. Plus she will lie.

I would recommend that you not confront her because it won't help.

You will expect her to be apologetic and sad but she will not be, and that will only add to your anger and make things worse for you.

We are conditioned by books and movies to believe that a spouse caught cheating will be remorseful and beg for forgiveness and we imagine that it will feel great to have our wayward spouse in that place after all they've done to us. In reality they most often get belligerent and accusatory when confronted which just makes everything worse.

You will not find the peace you seek through confrontation unfortunately.

She's going to "do her thing" no matter what you do, say, or feel about it. She doesn't need your permission or your blessing, which is a difficult thing to get your head around in the context of a relationship that used to be a partnership. It's not anymore, and the old rules don't apply.

Keep doing what you're doing. You have 0.0% chance to make this better while she is under the spell of an affair. All you can do is last resort technique and ride it out. It will eventually end and at that point if you're still interested you can start to make inroads but for now it's a waiting game.

Originally Posted by scaredA
Im really not sure what to do, I havent eaten all day and feel totally sick.
Try to eat or go out and get some Ensure or protein drinks. Go for a walk or a run in nature. Go to the gym.

Originally Posted by scaredA
Thinking about it, im not sure if the above will do anything.
I promise you it won't have the desired effect that you want.

Originally Posted by scaredA
I feel terrible!
We have all been there. It won't last.

Last edited by LH19; 10/21/21 01:58 PM.
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