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Originally Posted by LH19
My mother did everything. My dad never changed a diaper. I think I thought because I was way ahead of my dad I was ok. Plus my ex only worked part time.
There were only 16 weeks of my daughter's life where I wasn't working or going to school. They were the first 16 weeks of her life. I worked 2 jobs pregnant so I could save enough to stay home as long as possible with her. Never in my time with my exH did I work less than 2 part-time jobs or 1 part-time job and school. At one point I had 3 part-time jobs. Another point I was working fulltime and going to school fulltime 15 credit class load. At another point I was working 1 part-time job, doing and internship and a fulltime school 15 credit class load. And still I was left to arrange all the child care. I was left to do all of the care tasks, house keeping, dr's appointments, planning and cooking all the meals. And still I was expected to also pay all of my personal bills like phone, car anything (repair, insurance, gas, maintenance, etc.), any thing fun (movies, coffee, dinner out, etc) , plus for all of the groceries, household items and anything our daughter needed. I was expected to contribute half on any vacation. ExH felt like if he paid the mortgage on house that was only in his name (which he reminded me of often, and paid the gas, electric, insurance etc for the house that that was more than his fair share. Depending on the point in the relationship he made any where between 3-6X what I made. When I say I was financially abused this is what I'm talking about. I spent the last two and a half years we were together squirrelling away whatever money I could. And it still wasn't enough for us to get an apartment on our own. I was forced to move in with a friend who had extra rooms for us because I literally couldn't afford to furnish an apartment. I was more financially secure being D'd from my ex than I ever was with him and that was with the bulk of the money going to tuition and things strictly for our daughter. He felt like I owed the care taking tasks to him. I know this is an extreme version, but the amount of work most women have to do on top of work they get paid for is almost always a complete imbalance. Guys have to understand even if they are nice and help unless you are genuinely doing half the work 50/50 custody sounds like a vacation and if they only thing you have to offer your wife is a paycheck and the occasional date night, a D starts sounding like a vacation too.

Originally Posted by LH19
I listen to an Marcus Aubrey podcast and he was in an open relationship and it seems brutal. He's a pretty secure dude and he was struggling with it big time.
Ethical non-monogamy has little do do with being "secure" and everything to do with an unprecedent EQ. Secure means you think you're better catch than other people. Most "secure" cis-het guys think they can handle open/poly relationships as long as their partner is mostly interested in other women. Until they have to share. Same goes with them thinking it's all good since they get to do the same thing, then when left alone to think about it and not knowing where any of their partners are or who they're with it's all too much. I have one good friend in an open marriage and another who practices polyamory. In my opinion open marriage is a lot easier for people who grew up thinking they'd be monogamous their whole live. There's a primary relationship and the rules around that mean never sacrificing or shorting that relationship I think it's a much easier transition. But true poly life is hard, like really hard for people who've been conditioned for monogamy their whole lives. The amount of communication, and introspection required is far above a lot of people. That's some top tier EQ stuff. On top of that you have to be wholly accepting of the concept of every person being a completely autonomous human being, and that you are not in control of what they think, feel or need. You have to being willing to be completely vulnerable with more than one person. Completely opening yourself up so you can deal with jealousy, needs, and feelings at all times. The only way these relationships work is having the ability to self assess in real time all the time, and being willing to just be completely open all the time. Most people aren't built like that. The fact is if you aren't successful at monogamy you will not be at polyamory. It's monogamy and all the skills you need to succeed in it on 11 all the time.

Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by wayfarer
I think almost everyone except abusers and complete narcissists (and the people who leave them) wish they had tried harder to fix things. I think anyone with any amount of ability to be introspective wishes things didn't end the way the did and that they had done things differently. They may never want to be together again, but surely everyone I know who split has regrets about their behavior and choices in that time regardless of what side of the line they fell on.
This is what is sad to me. This will be a burden on my children for the rest of their lives because their parents could get together and figure their $hit out.

I really need people to stop thinking that D unduly burdens the children of D. What does burden kids irreparably is parents who shouldn't be married continuing to be married. The fact is parents are human just like their kids are. And it takes years and sometimes decades for kids to understand that two good people sometimes just can't make it work. And sometimes it's one person's fault more than the other. Sometimes it's both of their faults. But there's no going back. There's no making 20, 30, 40 year old version of their parents understand things they, the children now understand, or even things that parent gets now in the present. Of course kids would rather be in a home with two loving parents who love each other as much as the love their kids, but kids also would rather be in 2 household where there's no drama. Stability is stability regardless of how it looks.

The bulk of the information on kids of divorce comes from the 80s the peak of D in the US, and a time in which parents very unceremoniously split using kids as pawns, or acting as if the other spouse never existed. Or my favorite of all like the divorce doesn't concern them. Kids who come out of divorces in the last decade, h3ll even maybe the last 2 decades, are not carrying the trauma of their parents like kids of D used to. They aren't looking at their parents and thinking they'll never find love because this is what it's like. We've learned so much. Every one has learned so much, and we all try to do better.

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Originally Posted by wayfarer
I really need people to stop thinking that D unduly burdens the children of D. What does burden kids irreparably is parents who shouldn't be married continuing to be married. The fact is parents are human just like their kids are. And it takes years and sometimes decades for kids to understand that two good people sometimes just can't make it work. And sometimes it's one person's fault more than the other. Sometimes it's both of their faults. But there's no going back. There's no making 20, 30, 40 year old version of their parents understand things they, the children now understand, or even things that parent gets now in the present. Of course kids would rather be in a home with two loving parents who love each other as much as the love their kids, but kids also would rather be in 2 household where there's no drama. Stability is stability regardless of how it looks.

The only problem I have with this is how do you go from dating, getting engaged, getting married, starting a family together to "shouldn't be married". Too be honest, and I apologize if this isn't PC, the only time I have witnessed this is what the starting the family came before the engagement and marriage. To get from the steps above to "shouldn't be married" involves either one spouse being a wolf in sheep's clothing, or an awful lot of red-flag ignoring by one or both spouses.

However, I think that "two good people sometimes just can't make it work" is by far the minority. Of course this is assuming we can even judge what "good" people are. Are people good despite their choices? Can a spouse that cheats still be considered a "good" person? I was a pretty horrible husband. Does that define me? Or does the fact that I was good in other areas of my life (good parent, good son, good employee) outweigh that?

Obviously, opinions will vary. And I do agree that kids would rather be FROM a broken home than IN a broken home. But judging whether people are good or not is way above my pay grade.


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I agree, way, regarding the burden on the kids. Kids don’t feel the burden unless the parents put the burden on them.

There is not some awful burden to bare if there is good coparenting, no using kids as pawns, no bad mouthing the other parent. The kids are fine if the parents handle their sh!t well. My daughter is a perfect example. Yea, granted she doesn’t know life anymore other way, but my ex and show no animosity towards eachother, we have her best interests at heart and try to get on the same page about issues and she is really thriving . Is having to go back and forth a pain in the A sometimes? Sure. Did she used to get upset she didn’t understand why she saw me more than her dad? Yeah.

But she doesn’t bare any burdens. Some inconvience perhaps . But I don’t really think divorce colors kids futures if they don’t feel the burden which is the responsibility of the parents. It to put it on them. I do not see my daughter in therapy kn the future saying how her parents divorce is the cause of problems. I probably see my daughter maybe being in therapy, because her dad doesn’t know how to treat people and can be quite mean and hurtful. But that would have been even worse if she was exposed to that every day of her life when her parents were together

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Ok to clarify more I am not one of the people who think kids who come from divorce are doomed to a life time of misery and despair for the rest of their lives.

It is a burden. Case in point last week my son wanted to watch a football game with me on his moms night. She hadn’t seen him in five days so she said no. I understood her point. My son couldn’t watch the game with me so it was a burden on him. Will he get over it. Yep. Bet he already did. That’s just one microcosm of the next 25 years because his parents couldn’t figure out how to meet each other’s needs and stay married.


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It’s also a burden when you have a commitment of an event and miss a sports game. Happens all the time. In regular life. To everyone .

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Yep and this is just an additional burden.


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My kid missed her step grandmothers 70th birthday party yesterday because she has a cold and have Anita around old people. She was sad and over it pretty fast. Not a burden. Just life happening

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Definitely not the same thing. If you were still married she wouldn’t be going to the party. If I was still
Married he’d be watching the game with me.


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But maybe not. Maybe he would have had another commitment to attend. It’s annoying, that’s all. Nothing more and nothing less. It doesn’t fall into a burden category. He couldn’t watch the football game. If you had plans to do something else that day, he couldn’t watch the football game with you either.

Little nuances. They don’t think much of it .

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Wow I was under the impression that this was a safe place where I was aloud to have an opinion. Guess I was wrong.


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