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There was a lot of good discussion happening on my last thread, but I know they were going to cap it soon.

Here is a link to the last one: https://www.divorcebusting.com/foru...amp;Number=2920358&nt=11&page=12

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I saw this on instagram recently and it reminded me of the conversation we were having here. This really resonated with me:

When relationships end we often blame ourselves and say “I’m the problem.” Or we take no responsibility and say “I’m perfect. Their loss.” The hard truth is usually somewhere in the middle.

In the Comments: Until recently, I believed that if I just tried a little bit harder, I could get someone to like me or understand me.

There are so many amazing communication skills and tactics being shared out there. But it can also keep you stuck in this cycle of self-improvement that says “If I just work a little bit harder….this relationship will improve or they’ll finally understand me.”

You can do all the work in the world and there will still be people that are committed to misunderstanding you.
There will still be people that don’t agree with you.
There will still be people that deny your reality.

This doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to learn and improve! But, it’s important to know that sometimes it’s not you. Sometimes you’ve done all the work and you know you tried your hardest.

You know when you’ve done the work.
Have you read about communicating better?
Have you consulted with any therapists or other “experts”?
Have you been practicing?
Do you have deep relationships with other people?
Have you asked for feedback from other people?
Have you reflected on your role in the situation?
Have you been consistently working on your own inner stuff?

If you’ve practiced the scripts, read the books, consulted with the experts, asked for feedback, etc. and the relationship still isn’t improving…take a pause. Maybe you can see that this pattern isn’t showing up in your other relationships. You’ve reflected on what your part is and taken ownership of it. Is the other person doing this too?

Not every relationship can be improved or fixed. Not every relationship is a two-way street. Sometimes it’s one person doing all the other work.

This is just your friendly reminder that sometimes it’s ok to call it quits. It doesn’t mean you failed. It doesn’t mean you did anything wrong.

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Scott, good post. Cannot really disagree with any of this.

Would like to add. My favorite bald, Texan TV psychologist likes to say: "If you improve as a spouse, your spouse will more than likely respond positive to it." In other words, improving as a spouse cannot hurt your MR, and it more than likely will improve it.

However, in the situation where you work harder, try to improve as a spouse, and become the best version of yourself that you can be, and your spouse continues to want to leave, or not work on the MR, or be a lousy spouse themselves, more than being ok calling it quits, why would you still want to be with that person?

I think this is one of the keys to DBing. The LBS is in "hold on as tight as I can mode". DBing teaches you to look at things more logically, less selfishly, and objectively. Without that most human-beings will be against anything that results in change they are not in control of.


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Originally Posted by ScottB
When relationships end we often blame ourselves and say “I’m the problem.” Or we take no responsibility and say “I’m perfect. Their loss.” The hard truth is usually somewhere in the middle.
True, but where in the middle. Is it always 50/50? Sometimes is 60/40 or 80/20.

[quote=ScottB]This doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to learn and improve! But, it’s important to know that sometimes it’s not you. Sometimes you’ve done all the work and you know you tried your hardest.
Very true. A balance between self-reflection and improvement, and also recognizing that in some cases it's more about the other person than you.

Originally Posted by SteveLW
However, in the situation where you work harder, try to improve as a spouse, and become the best version of yourself that you can be, and your spouse continues to want to leave, or not work on the MR, or be a lousy spouse themselves, more than being ok calling it quits, why would you still want to be with that person?
It's not always about still wanting to be with that person anymore as much as not wanting to be in the resulting situation their actions caused. I guess turning the attitude around and embracing the sitch and making the most of it anyway is the key.

Originally Posted by SteveLW
I think this is one of the keys to DBing. The LBS is in "hold on as tight as I can mode". DBing teaches you to look at things more logically, less selfishly, and objectively. Without that most human-beings will be against anything that results in change they are not in control of.
Letting go can be tough. It can be emotional and scary. Probably best in the end.


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Originally Posted by ScottB
IWhen relationships end we often blame ourselves and say “I’m the problem.” Or we take no responsibility and say "Their loss.” The hard truth is usually somewhere in the middle.

There are so many amazing communication skills and tactics being shared out there. But it can also keep you stuck in this cycle of self-improvement that says “If I just work a little bit harder….this relationship will improve or they’ll finally understand me.”

This doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to learn and improve!

This is just your friendly reminder that sometimes it’s ok to call it quits. It doesn’t mean you failed. It doesn’t mean you did anything wrong.
Amen. My XGF and I didn't work because I had unresolved baggage about my past, a disorganized home, control issues, an anxious attachment style, and she was most of my social network. BUT, it also didn't work because she vented her frustrations with life at me, wasn't reliable, had an avoidant attachment style, had control issues, and was suffering from a neurodegenerative disease. It's okay to let go. Keep improving and showing those improvements in interactions with them and others so we don't end up with similar dynamics with them or another in our next relationship. Reality usually lies in the middle.



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I am really enjoying the continuation of this conversation.

I had an epiphany today while speaking to my L about some details in our D. My H has some serious cognitive dissonance, to the point where I am concerned about there being a legitimate mental health issue running the cogs behind the scene. I could have spent some time explaining to my L where my concerns were and what I believed was going on, but in the end, no matter how disordered, mentally healthy or unhealthy another person is, the reality is that the truth still lays between their narrative and yours. Whether evenly in the middle, or only one degree off, anything but complete agreement of the facts is going to skew the actual truth. Which left me with the realization that it just doesn't matter how far off-base a person is, we can only work with what is in front of us, whether 99 degrees or 1 degree off, it's still off and we have to meet them where they are at.

Which then leads full circle back to the only person you can control is yourself. So, tell me how do you want to live your one wild and precious life? (Mary Oliver)

Personally, I want to grow from this situation that broke my heart in a million pieces, irrevocably changed the course of my future and that of my children, but I also choose life. And for me, life is more than reflecting on the past and how I could be a better person in my M with H, bean counting the (ever changing) degrees of differences in our narratives and truths, as I was wont to do in an attempt to better myself. For me, life is choosing to take a forest view of the trees and say 'hmm, other people have also said they struggle with me in this arena, I should pay attention' and leave the rest behind as an opinion of one and stop allowing H to define the degrees of differences between us. This allows me the space to just live my way into the answers, allows H his truths and me mine, without conflict or animosity.

For me, this is true detachment. I used to believe detachment meant I wouldn't care at all what H thought or felt. I know now that for me, this may never be true. I may always care, always feel. But if I can separate me and mine from him and his, truly listen and take the truths that I need to accommodate, and leave the rest, I will be able to move on confidently into healing and finding happiness.

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Originally Posted by Sage4
For me, life is choosing to take a forest view of the trees and say 'hmm, other people have also said they struggle with me in this arena, I should pay attention' and leave the rest behind as an opinion of one and stop allowing H to define the degrees of differences between us. .

I agree with this. I think our spouse / ex-spouse can be a mirror for us, BUT when listening or taking feedback, we shoudl also consider whether or not we are getting similar feedback from others. If it really is isolated, then it might not be something we stew over for too long.

Recently my counselor recommended a book called "What Matters Most" by James Hollis. Its hitting me at a good time as I continue to work to think about the next chapter and what I (underlined and bold I), what I want. Not my kids, colleagues, parents, or ex. I'm only three chapters in but I'm finding that it to be a good read.

Overall I feel like I'm in the middle of a good run. Work is going better - I'm feeling my limits and paying attention to them so that I don't take too much on. Socially I'm doing good, finding healthy outlets. I'm really enjoying going kayaking when I can get out. Workouts are going well. I had the entire inside of my house repainted and and I'm redecorating everything. A couple of rooms are done, and my favorite thing is that I added a cool mid century modern desk that I use every night to journal, read some poetry, and spend time to think.

The divorce is at the 1 yard line. At this time we've made all the decisions we need to make. I would think the paperwork is all set any day and ready to be signed and submitted. I'm sure that day will be a hiccup. And I'm sure the hearing will be a hiccup. But I'm continuing to work to take steps to stay mentally healthy.

I hope everyone is well.

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Originally Posted by ScottB
BUT when listening or taking feedback, we shoudl also consider whether or not we are getting similar feedback from others. If it really is isolated, then it might not be something we stew over for too long.
Agreed. How long and well they've known you are also factors to consider. It can be especially challenging to objectively consider a claim made by a divorcing partner. In retrospect, there are few complaints from my XGF that I disagree with, although my prioritization of addressing issues is not hers.



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Originally Posted by CWarrior
I had unresolved baggage about my past, a disorganized home, control issues, an anxious attachment style, and she was most of my social network.
For example, how many friends or acquaintances could judge these attributes of me in a romantic relationship in the last decade? WAS (separate from WWS) are rarely angels or demons. They may exaggerate or ignore positives, but there's often truth behind most complaints.



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Scotty, you seem like you're in a better place. Your posts seem to be less focussed on her and everything she did wrong and you're seeming more introspective and looking to improve. Its good to read, keep it up mate.


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T: 14 M: 11
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BD & OM Jun 2020
W moves out Aug 2020

"What happened happened, and couldn't have happened any other way...because it didn't"
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