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A Message from Michele
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Originally Posted by Navarro
I expect too much too quick. You’ve really put things into perspective in that last message. His intentions are honest (finally). I’ve got to be better and I’ve got to be open minded to this. I’ve gotta be the one to except it instead of criticize and critic it. I’m looking for anything bad and he’s trying with everything he has. It’s me!!! I am my own worst enemy. Thank you warrior, thank you!!

I didn't get this message from what Warrior posted.


You expect too much?? No. Too quick, big YES.

You don't know that his intentions are honest. (You don't know that they are not). TIME.

Accepting behavior without criticizing or critiquing? He was unfaithful, of COURSE you need to evaluate behaviors. Over time. Are they consistent? Do they match the words coming out of his mouth? So no, criticizing isn't helpful. But certainly notice and evaluate.


ME47 XH44, S28 S24 S19

8/17-BD
IHS: 1/17-2/19
D FILED (ME): 7/19
D FINAL: 10/20
M23 T25
OW CONFIRMED: 01/21

Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.
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You all are so awesome! I know your worried about “me”! I know what that message meant and I know that you feel like I took it the opposite way. I’m sure you both were like WTH!!lol!
I watched an article about detachment last night and I have been so worried that I wasn’t detached enough but I’m a lot further detached then I even realized. I don’t portray that here. I show weakness here because I feel like it’s my only place to be able to do that. I think I’m misunderstood because he doesn’t effect me. That ship sailed a long time ago! Now I won’t lie and say there isn’t a bad day I’m there every once in a while.
I have control problems. I’ve always had control problems. He’s wrong in so many ways and he is to
to blame for all of it BUT you guys I have a lot lessons to learn to. Maybe not for this M but maybe even for a future relationship. Closure is what I long for. The unknown is what bothers me. My H told me so many times throughout our M “you look for something wrong”! I do to! Instead of looking for the right then I assume the wrong. I don’t even know what makes me happy now. I’ve ask myself that a million times. Can he ever make me happy again, I don’t know? Would I love to see him finish his crisis and come back better, I don’t know that either? I’m lost you guys in what makes me happy.
I don’t want a man to come grovel back. I want a strong man that knows he loves me and wants to be with me confidently and with his whole heart. There’s no other option!

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Navarro, this board is very supportive of self-improvement/180s. Not even supportive, we demand it. And hold LBSs accountable to become the best version of themselves they can be. So yes you have work to do on yourself. You need to figure out what you need. You need to get into IC, go out and GAL, and keep working on self-improvements. You need to get right, and you need to deal with all of the trauma you've been through. When you don't even know what you want then how do you even know if you want to reconcile? So yes, do the work to make sure you are successful in MR 2.0. Or a brand new R!

But I do want to make sure you know that I wasn't saying your H has to come groveling back. He can know he loves you. Know he wants to be with you confidently with his whole heart. And still live up to boundaries and requirements that you have for moving into Ring and piecing. Those things do not have to be mutually exclusive.


M(52), W(53),D(17)
M-20, T-23 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
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Hmmm I’m not even sure how to begin to express what is going on with my life right now. I have taken your advice and I am on a routine schedule now with an IC. I am still very confused but hopefully with a little time that will resolve.
Rewind 3 weeks and picture this- My h asking if he can return home? With your guidance I told him no. Now fast forward a week later- he walks in our home nervously and says he is considering retiring and taking a new business venture that consists of traveling across the US. I was completely shocked but only responded with a genuine and enthusiastic “congratulations”. His nervousness seemed to change to confusion then sadness after his spill on the career change. Things seem to be fairly normal the last two weeks or so until Friday. Friday he left for all men’s poker trip (he scheduled it 3 months ago). He was excited for the trip and by all accounts looking forward to it. He gets out there hangs with the men all day, sends lots of videos, and seems to be having a great time. However, later that evening he repeatedly calls and when I finally answer he is crying profusely. He can’t even speak!! He repeats he’s sorry but never addresses what for. I mean I can assume but there’s no way of making a correct assumptions with a man in crisis! He was considering flying back home but I convinced him to sleep on it and things would be better in the morning. He texts at 9 the next day and says “sorry for last night, I am better today”. That evening rolls around and he begins texting me “I’m so sorry, I’m so sorry”. He doesn’t address for what but it’s the same text over and over. Texting has been the only form of communication we’ve had the last 3 years so when he called (more then once) this past week that is rare.
When is the right time to except them back to try? Is there still more remorse coming? Strangely enough it feels like he woke up and realized that we are split up and is trying to deal with a break up from day 1 when I've had 3 years to try to recover. Oddly enough I feel confident and I am calm. I can’t help but feel a lot of old hurt because these are painful emotions that I’ve put passed me and tried to move on from. It’s like ripping a bandaid off of an open wound. I don’t wanna go back and relieve what I went through when he left. I don’t wanna go back and I thought the key to this was looking forward. This feels like going backwards and I’m not sure I wanna go there and relive that pain again. Is talking about the past something we have to do to move forward? So many questions…...

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Hey Navarro,

It appears he is feeling the fear that he may have lost you. This is a good thing.

I can only speak from my personal experience when my ex (she left and came back 3x) wanted to come back home.

Every time she started to feel the fear that I had moved on, she would call or text and cry. One time she wept in front of me in a Starbucks for 2 hours. Every time I would take her words and actions at face value and drop my guard.

When I would drop my guard, we would go back into a honeymoon phase. Lots of love, sex etc. But those periods were short lived and she would revert back to her old behaviors within months and we would fall back into old patterns and she would leave again.

Looking back, I should have taken much more time to see just how serious she was about our relationship. I should have established more boundaries in regards to what I was willing to accept from a partner and given her the time to prove whether she was capable of staying in an imperfect relationship, or not.

My advice - take things very slowly. I think there's some positives here but your H's feelings can and most likely will change regularly. One day he might miss your relationship, and the next day he might value his independence as a single man. You want to look for consistency, over time, to trust that what he's telling you is real and not just a fleeting feeling that he has that day.

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I get that he is saying sorry, but is he saying he wants back in?

Lots of WAS's are sorry for themselves more than the LBS.


H 34
W 29
BD 3/12/18
Divorce Busted Spring 19

It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
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#1 he needs to articulate what he's sorry for: he's sorry he got caught, he's sorry he messed everything up, he's sorry he's been a terrible person, he's sorry you're not waiting on him any more or is he truly sorry and wants to actually make amends?
#2 have you made a list of your demands for him to return to the marriage? If not you should sooner than later. There's a list around here some where, maybe someone can post it, if not I'll try to dig it up later. Mainly it's IC and MC and complete transparency about where the the WH/WAH is going, what they are doing, who they are doing it with, their social media, phone, email, whatever, and the LBS has veto power on things that make them feel uncomfortable.
#3 Most people have a false start some times more than one. Sometimes that leads to Recon, sometimes it doesn't. Take things slow. Don't get your hopes up. And treat H like a skittish cat. Let him come to you, don't go to him.

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You've got good advice above from three very wise posters. Thornton nailed the answer to your question. You will know he is really back when he is constance over a long period of time.

And really okay attention to wayfarer about what requirements you have to R. When a WAS is serious about coming back no requirement will be too much for them.

Remember: When he wants to truly come back you will know. When he doesn't, you will be confused.


M(52), W(53),D(17)
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Great responses and lots to ponder. I appreciate them all very much. More then you will ever know. He’s feared loosing me from day 1. He’s bought the app that changes the phone numbers and texted me from different numbers pretending to be another man and seeing if I would be interested. He did that for the first 2 years. When he began our “friendship” again a year ago all of the other odd number text messages stopped. I have access to his phone and I found all the messages.
One thing that sticks out to me that is probably the most is the consistency. He has been consistent for the last year. He is reliable, not drinking, he’s accountable, he is kind, he is thinking clearly, and he has been consistent. I think that’s what I feared the most because it felt like he was getting better and we were becoming “friends”. He’s been pretty great honestly the last 9-12 months. I will say the last 12 weeks he has become a happier person and more of his normal self. I had forgotten just how good that person was til I saw him again. I’ve actually wondered if his crisis ended long before now but he just decided not to come back to me. Even though he was getting better he spoke no words to me about our relationship nor did I. We text constantly and he tells me where he is always and who he is with. He does nothing except work and spend time with us in our home. That’s been the most confusing part of it all!! The consistency has been there for a while but yet the r hasn’t! It’s felt almost normal for the last 9 months.
I’ve seen the highs and lows you refer to. When the lows began they were very selfish and hateful, then they were pitty for himself, and now they refer to me finally. Although, he takes accountability, I can’t seem to have him admit much of anything. He can’t really explain it. He claims it’s him but he just doesn’t know how or why. He has such few words. He has vague memories of the last 3 years but then when I ask something he cringes and ducks his head. So he def needs to speak more and spill everything! Ok that means that I have to be willing to listen to it. I shut down when we talk about the past to. I have to be more welcoming to listen.
Where can I find the requirements? I need that!! I’m not confused about him wanting to come home, I am confused about letting him come home. I dreamed of this day and it’s what I’ve waited on but now that it’s here, I am scared of it. I’m not worried about him leaving in 2 weeks, I am worried about him leaving in 2 years. I’m detached and I have to choose to work forward, that will take time but I don’t want him to leave again after I get attached again! I don’t want to go through that pain. You all, I’m not sure I can survive that again! I’m starting to wonder if I am going to be able to allow him to return. When I read on here “the old r is dead and gone” I don’t think I realized how true those words really were.

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Navarro,

Glad you're seeing good signs from him. I agree proceed with caution. Be "OK" with yourself either way. If he doesn't come back you'll be ok if he does all the better.

Originally Posted by Navarro
He’s bought the app that changes the phone numbers and texted me from different numbers pretending to be another man and seeing if I would be interested. He did that for the first 2 years. When he began our “friendship” again a year ago all of the other odd number text messages stopped. I have access to his phone and I found all the messages.
This seems a bit controlling and creepy. He's using an app to text you from random numbers to test whether you'll date other men? Doesn't that strike you as odd?

Originally Posted by Navarro
One thing that sticks out to me that is probably the most is the consistency. He has been consistent for the last year. He is reliable, not drinking, he’s accountable, he is kind, he is thinking clearly, and he has been consistent. I think that’s what I feared the most because it felt like he was getting better and we were becoming “friends”. He’s been pretty great honestly the last 9-12 months. I will say the last 12 weeks he has become a happier person and more of his normal self.
I agree w/the others to make sure the words and actions are consistent over a long period of time. He should want to move back and reconcile badly. Is he showing consistency in wanting to reconcile or just consistent being a good/nice person?

Originally Posted by Navarro
I’m not confused about him wanting to come home, I am confused about letting him come home. I dreamed of this day and it’s what I’ve waited on but now that it’s here, I am scared of it. I’m not worried about him leaving in 2 weeks, I am worried about him leaving in 2 years. I’m detached and I have to choose to work forward, that will take time but I don’t want him to leave again after I get attached again! I don’t want to go through that pain. You all, I’m not sure I can survive that again! I’m starting to wonder if I am going to be able to allow him to return. When I read on here “the old r is dead and gone” I don’t think I realized how true those words really were.
Detachment isn't for now and then you get attached and get hurt all over again. Detachment is being happy with your life and knowing you'll be ok regardless of how he acts. If you allow him to comes back again you continue to DB and GAL and be happy with your life even if he leaves again. In the future, whether you allow him to come back or not and whether he stays or not, detachment is knowing you'll have a great life regardless and won't be devastated either way.


Me:39 Ex-W:36
M:7 T: 9
S:6 D:2
BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20
OM1 affair ends: May '20
W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20
W files for D: Jul20
OM2 confirmed: 9/2020
Divorced: May '21
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