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To me personally I completely agree with you BL. Don’t get it!
To your point CW I say the real question is, has she considered what this (boobs and lips and makeup) tells her (my!) kids?

Back to Scott, if the above rule/principle sounds rational to you.
Has she begged?
If not, move forward and protect yourself.


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Boobs and lips are a personal decision and it doesn’t send a bad message to kids. Women have the autonomy to do what makes them feel good without it being a bad message. Just like make up, nice clothes, getting their hair done, etc.

Not for anyone else to judge, especially their own kids

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Also…..

Begging? Why is there this notion that a walk away spouse who would like to try to live the marriage back together should be begging? It takes 2 to end a marriage in most cases, quite honestly. No adult should be “begging”

Should the walk away want to reconcile, I believe they should come with acknowledgment of what went wrong on their side of the street and an action plan to do better and with remorse in the form of owning up to how actions were hurtful

But no one should be begging. Come one now

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Ok begging is a bad choice of word, I agree.
Point is was/ws must IMO be the one to initiate and “push” R.

With regards to boobjobs and the like.
I was questioning whether she had even considered it. It is absolutely a personal choice and if it is something that someone (man or woman) feels the need to do I am all for it. Though believing it will not be analyzed by the people around you, including kids, is delusional IMO. If it were me who had done some sort of surgery (I am bald myself so definitely at least considered it at times) I would really think hard about the day I would talk about it with my kids (young and adults).


Me: 34
Stbxw: 30
D:5 D:3
Mini bd: May/June 2019
Married: Aug 2019
BD: 6th Dec 2019
OM Confirmed: Feb 2020
March 2020: I filed for D
Waiting for D to be finalized and W to move out end of January 2021
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I've read a couple of other posts and it helps me make sense of some of LH's takes, which I read with a degree of an edge to them. Its frustrating. So many of us go through the same thing by these WAS.

I mean this post:

https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=588545#Post588545

Is a cynical joke that I bet rings so true for so many and it was written 16 years ago. So much pain is created by the WAS - pain that I know creates depression, suicides, and generational harm.

Its gross and disgusting. I'm not sure how to stop it from happening again - and I believe I'll try again. Anyhow, just processing everyone's situation. Its not right; but that doesn't matter.

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Scott, thanks for posting this. I am in the camp of not really liking the term Midlife Crisis. Midlife Change to me is a better term. Because the person that goes through a MLC likely will NEVER go back to being the person the used to be. So many LBSs sit and wait for the MLC to end. It is a fool's game. It is like trying to find gold at the end of the rainbow.

However, LBSs spend too much time diagnosing their WAS. As if finding the reason for their walkaway behavior can be fixed and a cure can be found and you can turn things around. The bottom line for me is that regardless of reason, the actions the LBS should be taking are the same:

Detach.
GAL.
180.
Focus off WAS and onto self.

Cookie cutter? Maybe. But that i how you move forward after BD. No amount of diagnosing your WAS will make a difference.


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Originally Posted by ScottB
I'm not sure how to stop it from happening again
I am not sure if any of us can stop it from happening again. I did my best to be a better picker this time around. I am much more aware of the state of my relationship now. If it does happen again to me, I know I will survive.


Could you clarify what you mean by your statement "Degree of an edge"?


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
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Originally Posted by Ready2Change
Could you clarify what you mean by your statement "Degree of an edge"?

I can...LH when trying to drive a point home often comes off jaded as h3ll. Most of the time he's pushing extra hard because the LBS is not listening to the gentler kinder voices of reason. But once he cuts you, you can't stop hearing some of that bitterness when you read his words.

As to you Scott, it's not your place to judge every WAS/WS or MLCer after reading some threads. Yes they do often leave a hot mess in their wake. Some times tremendous amounts of damage. But broken people do broken things. Hurt people hurt people. And more often than not the worst version of that WAS/WS was always there, and the LBS either ignored the red flags or forget the behavior entirely until everything fell apart. Not to say we deserved any of it. But things are not as cut and dry as you're framing them. A common theme around here is that LBS try to turn WAS/WS into monsters because it helps them hold on to the anger, and it absolves them of any of their wrongs. It's really easy to be a victim and avoid introspection. It's really easy to be bitter and jaded. What's not easy is putting in the work to move on and move up. It's not easy taking a very serious personal inventory and fixing what's broken in ourselves when such crappy stuff happened to us.

It's a hard thing to accept that not all WAS/WS are irredeemable garbage people. And not all LBS are perfect angels and victims. While we all have similarities in our situations it's because people in crisis all behave in a similar pattern. For the most part though that's where the similarities end. Every LBS on here has a varying degree of culpability in the demise of the MR. Every MR has different underlying issues. Some of the WAS/WS have addiction issues, some have undiagnosed or untreated mental health issues, some have childhood trauma, some really should've just gotten some IC, some are straight up narcissists. But all of that's irrelevant once you've reached this point in the journey. Hanging on to what's been done to you will do you or any LBS no good. You're focus needs to be on you. And being the best version of yourself so that you're not risking this happening again. As the great DnJ likes to say "Be better not bitter."

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Originally Posted by wayfarer
I can...LH when trying to drive a point home often comes off jaded as h3ll. Most of the time he's pushing extra hard because the LBS is not listening to the gentler kinder voices of reason. But once he cuts you, you can't stop hearing some of that bitterness when you read his words.
Wow I'm jaded and bitter lol. Funny because I feel great! Look Way I get it, you're a WW and your H is a WH so I understand your defense of the WS. My advice is always predicated on two things 1. They are not coming back anytime soon and 2. 95% of them aren't worth having back anytime soon. It's that really that simple. You should NEVER try to keep someone in your life who is trying to walk out of it. As the great LH19 likes to say "READ MY TAG LINE".


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Don't chase people. Be yourself, do your own thing and work hard. The right people - the ones who really belong in your life - will come to you and stay.- Will Smith
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LH - I strongly suggest you slow down and re-read what I wrote.

Originally Posted by LH19
Wow I'm jaded and bitter lol. Funny because I feel great!
I never said you were bitter or jaded. I was explaining why SB reads what you write with an edge to it, as R2C specifically asked. If you had taken the time to actually read what I wrote instead of getting in your chest about things and thinking I was personally attacking you I said you COME OFF as jaded, AND I explained further why it seems that way to LBSs. It feels like bitterness, because you don't exactly sugar coat advice, 2x4s, and for some of these guys reality. Me being nice and you misreading it and getting up in arms over it isn't really helping my argument though.

Originally Posted by LH19
Look Way I get it, you're a WW and your H is a WH so I understand your defense of the WS. My advice is always predicated on two things 1. They are not coming back anytime soon and 2. 95% of them aren't worth having back anytime soon. It's that really that simple. You should NEVER try to keep someone in your life who is trying to walk out of it. As the great LH19 likes to say "READ MY TAG LINE".

I'm not entirely sure why you read this entire message as if I wrote it at you, like I was trying to counter something. You know how I operate. If I want to fight, I'm going to fight, and it will be directly and point by point. However, I think based on how you interpreted what I wrote you were feeling some kind of way and took that out on me. None of this was addressed to you or at you. But it's not the first time a man took what I said personally when it had absolutely nothing to do with him. And I'm sure it won't be the last.

As far as how I feel about demonizing WAS/WS we've had this conversation before. Making monsters of all WAS/WS is an easy way out for LBS to wash away all their sins, their faults, and have zero culpability in the demise of their marriage. Which leads them to being ACTUALLY bitter and jaded. It also does zero for them in helping them move up and move on. Letting that way of thinking go on lets an LBS stew in the anger instead of moving through the stages of grief which requires absolutely no higher thought nor does it allow room for forgiveness or any other method of getting over or through what happened.

What I said doesn't negate in any way what you say in these matters at all. Two things can be true. You can both realize you are a human with faults, and it takes two to make a marriage, and realize you're worth more than what you put up with. And in this case specifically, I think we all know she's not coming back nor would any of us understand why SB would want that. My points on the matter were directed to SB, not you. It's why I literally addressed that portion to him. You're so far past the point SB is in this what I said would have literally no relevance or baring on your life unless you wanted it to. If you interpreted it as such, I don't know what to tell you LH. That wasn't my intent, and I wrote it pretty clearly that that wasn't my intent in the first place.

If you do want me to actually insult you though I'd say keep talking about yourself in the 3rd person and I'm sure I can come up with something wink

Last edited by wayfarer; 09/15/21 01:56 PM.
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