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Eagle3 Offline OP
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Thank you DnJ for your vision on his current path.


Would like to ask the following:

Did anyone see the drama series, Scenes from a Marriage?


Eagle


Me(45)EXH(44)
M:15 T:18, S19, S16 & S16
04/19-02/20 ILYB & OW1
12/20-08/22 OW2 (+pregnant-his child)
03/22-Divorce official
06/22-08/23 Reconnecting
09/23-possible back with OW2
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Eagle3,

There was actually an extensive discussion on the Newcomer's Forum of a couple shows (Netflix's "Sex/Life" and "Marriage Story", ”HBO's "Scenes from a Marriage", and “The Killing of Two Lovers), but it reached 100 posts and there was never a follow-on.

Netflix (Sex/Lives) an Inside to the mind of a WW


Me:39 Ex-W:37
M:7 T: 9
S:6 D:3
BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20
OM1 affair ends: May '20
W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20
W files for D: Jul20
OM2 confirmed: 9/2020
Divorced: May '21
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Eagle3 Offline OP
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Thank you BL42.

Had a look at the thread just now.

I saw the series a couple of weeks ago. Thought is was quite good.

H is currently watching it…he ‘heard’ from someone it was worthwile.

Last edited by Eagle3; 12/10/21 03:19 PM.

Me(45)EXH(44)
M:15 T:18, S19, S16 & S16
04/19-02/20 ILYB & OW1
12/20-08/22 OW2 (+pregnant-his child)
03/22-Divorce official
06/22-08/23 Reconnecting
09/23-possible back with OW2
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Posts: 403
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Eagle3 Offline OP
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It was another interesting week with H.

He remains calm, I’m seeing a lot of the old H again, but also a completely different person, it sounds cliché because it is described that way everywhere, but it really is the case.

He also continues to do his share of all the household tasks and even more. Asks every day what he can do and everything is done effectively. He feels useful that way I see.

Every day he is starting to realize more and more.

Friday evening he had a very open conversation with S17.
His words:
He has openly admitted that he is a weak person, that his M (me) is a very strong person and that he must always treat me with respect because I have been there for them at all times. He didn't, he abandoned them during the most crucial stages of their lives, and that this is something he will regret for the rest of his life.

S17 has also shared his feelings, but is still cautious. I could clearly notice that.
He told his F that he is angry with him, angry because he abandoned them and caused us all a lot of pain, but that he can somewhat understand what happened with his F the past years due to the fact he is so unhappy.

They also talked about "the rooms" in his head, and S17 showed pictures of H where you can see very well how far gone he was at times (the typical shark eyes can been seen in several pictures). H was very confused when he saw those photo’s. It was exactly as if his soul was not present, this was also how he felt many times these past years, and sometimes still feels.

Also very talkative to me at different times. He has certainly already expressed his regret 3 to 4 times, and the realization that he has hurt me enormously is now finally there.

He feels that he is making progress but speaks of a very difficult period in his head. He realizes that he has said and done a lot of hurtful things to me, to the children and the family, but also to the OWs. The OW's did not have a fantastic life with him, as many think, but a period where there were very heated arguments because of all the lies and deceit. He admits to have an anger issues disorder for several years now and wants to seek help for that.

He slept in our bed twice this weekend. (asked if he could, I allowed it). These were very intense and beautiful moments. Fortunately I can handle it very well. The love for him is there, but I also realize that there are no guarantees, I can keep my feelings under control and have no expectations for the future.

Last night he suddenly came into my room, I was just asleep, he gave me a hug and said sorry again for everything I did to you. I told him, feel free to sleep here, but he declined. I didn't say anything more, don't want to put pressure on him at all. Afterwards I went into his bedroom to say that I have forgiven him, that I have done this for a long time and I gave him a kiss on his forehead. Then I left immediately.

The signing of the divorce papers is scheduled for tomorrow. This is given me mixed feelings but I know I have to persevere now. H is nowhere near full healing yet, he cannot give any guarantees, he wants to proceed with the divorce since he cannot give what a woman seeks in a man. He cannot make me happy for now he says. So in the interest of myself and the children, certainty is now necessary in case it goes back the other way.

I hope I can keep my emotions under control because it is a very crucial moment in the entire journey so far so wish me luck…


Me(45)EXH(44)
M:15 T:18, S19, S16 & S16
04/19-02/20 ILYB & OW1
12/20-08/22 OW2 (+pregnant-his child)
03/22-Divorce official
06/22-08/23 Reconnecting
09/23-possible back with OW2
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Good Morning Eagle

Wow, H is certainly waking up towards so many things. And you my dear are doing incredibly! Well done, keeping your cool and being no pressure.

Originally Posted by Eagle3
He remains calm, I’m seeing a lot of the old H again, but also a completely different person, it sounds cliché because it is described that way everywhere, but it really is the case.

He also continues to do his share of all the household tasks and even more. Asks every day what he can do and everything is done effectively. He feels useful that way I see.

Every day he is starting to realize more and more.

I am sure H missed feeling useful. Interesting how they first run from all their responsibilities and then as they grow up, roll up their sleeves and dig back into them.

Originally Posted by Eagle3
Afterwards I went into his bedroom to say that I have forgiven him, that I have done this for a long time and I gave him a kiss on his forehead.

I wondered when you were going to tell him.

H is working to forgive himself. His admission to the hurt and pain he caused, his talks with son, his regrets, and such. He is looking for forgiveness, his own and God’s. That’s a tall order.

You did very good telling him and leading the way. Showing H it is possible to be forgiven. Seeing that possibility is a huge mental shift within a person; to realize and believe they are worthy of forgiveness.

H has a bit of a path to trek first. Quite a few things to say and own up too. Many things to fix. And much self imposed pain to endure.

Generally, people do not know forgiveness. They do not know how to do it, and they do not understand it. The usual, and incorrect, principle is that the person needs to earn forgiveness.

Some folks seeking forgiveness get caught up in self inflicted demonizing and emotional flagellation. They punish themselves to atone for their sins and immoral acts. A kind, compassionate, and empathizing word will do much to help one along their path. More often, people may try. Realize the difficulties of self admonishment and then quit. Never realizing the futility of such a direction. For one cannot buy forgiveness.

Forgiveness is not for sale. Forgiveness cannot be earned. It is bestowed, often silently, by the one forgiving because of who they themselves have become, not because of who the one seeking forgiveness is or what they have done. For that reason self forgiveness is more difficult; one is both seeker and bestower.

I place H in the first category. Not too far into the self punishing path, yet he is seeking how to forgive himself. And he won’t easily quit. A very good thing. H will forgive himself because of who he becomes, not because of what he does.

Repentance is oddly not a physical action. Actions do influence the inner working though. And influencing a belief can change everything.

Originally Posted by Eagle3
The signing of the divorce papers is scheduled for tomorrow. This is given me mixed feelings but I know I have to persevere now. H is nowhere near full healing yet, he cannot give any guarantees, he wants to proceed with the divorce since he cannot give what a woman seeks in a man. He cannot make me happy for now he says. So in the interest of myself and the children, certainty is now necessary in case it goes back the other way.

A wise decision. Security and certainty are most worthwhile.

It is evident you still feel for H. You still desire a reconciliation. Divorce is just basically the business side of this situation. And strangely this does not negate a possible future reconciliation. You are just financially untangled.

Remain steady and calm. You have given this much thought and made your decision while clear-headed. That is one of the most important principles of divorce-busting. Act with purpose and logical reasoned focus.

Best of luck tomorrow.

D


Feelings are fleeting.
Be better, not bitter.
Love the person, forgive the sin.
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thinking of you today, Eagle xoxoxo


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

"Someone I loved once gave me
A box full of darkness.
It took me years to understand,
That this too, was a gift."
~ Mary Oliver
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Eagle3 Offline OP
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Successfully completed the 3rd week since H returned home.
This week H was again very candid, but you also see the depression and withdrawal come back, and he's trying incredibly hard to fight it.

Last Tuesday we actually signed the divorce papers. Within 3 weeks we are officially divorced. At the notary I was able to complete everything very business-like, my feelings fully under control. Of course H was totally unprepared, hadn't even gone through the papers. He just sat there and listened while she read through the document.

When we walked outside I joked that he was finally a free man, simply to brake that awkward moment, he hesitated, then answered this would only be in 3 weeks.

In the car on the way back we were both silent. My emotions took over there and I started to cry silently. Luckily we were home quickly and I told him I was going for a walk. He saw that I was crying and started to cry too. We hugged each other and I left. He wanted to join me but I needed time to myself. After a walk of an hour I had put everything back together. It is what it is. We have to move forward. And eventually I’m glad I signed the papers.

This means that soon H will no longer be H but XH. In the situation of about 2 months ago I would actually start to call him XH, but he is not XH today, he is XH but in his awakening. That is why I will apply DnJ’ tactic, from now on I will start calling him G.

XH is MLC H, G is MLC H during his awakening. I sincerely hope I can continue to call him G.

In recent days, G has had enormous difficulties in keeping his drinking under control. However, he realizes this and is now also talking about it. The realization that he has an alcohol problem, an anger problem and separation anxiety are very present.

Since this weekend, he's started talking about the fact that he's thinking about getting admitted. (I hope this is the right word)

His contract expires at the end of this month. He's been given a new, not very good job offer (I think because they want to get rid of him), and probably plans not to take it.
This means that he could be out of work from January 1.

That's why we talked about the fact that he is on a T junction. He is very aware of this but it is taking everything from him to make a decision. For us this would be very clear, for a person in crisis this is hell.

It can go 2 ways:

- On the one hand, not accepting the job, after all, he has been employed there for 3 years now and has never liked it, and in addition, he can work on his problems with the help of third parties.

- On the other hand, he can continue with the job, and may or may not seek help, but there he has a greater risk of not taking any steps forward and stay in limbo.

It's up to him to choose which way to go. The coming weeks will be crucial in this aspect.

I also wanted to share with you something about the OW’s. What really struck me during the open conversations I had with him is that the fact that they are together with an OW, it is the OW itself that shows and learns a lot about themselves. It's just as if the OW is helping them bring out their demons and show them who they really are.

I can't explain it but the fact they say the affair has to run its course, I'm starting to understand this more and more. Strange to say, but apparently it also has a purpose.

As for myself. I'm still coping well with the situation. I keep on listening, I’m the lighthouse to him (he even says this to me), I can deal with whatever he says and I’m also processing.

The only thing I have to guard against is the fact that there is an enormous physical attraction between us. Our intimate life has always been very intense and now that he lives back at home, that dynamic comes back completely, which is actually not advisable. He is still convinced that we cannot be in a relationship anymore. Too much happened, can't give what I deserve, children will have to be able to deal with new partners in the future etc.

I tell him I don't need him anymore, but that I’m there for him.

Maybe I should change my tactics here. No more intimate contacts and keep my distance, but in a good way? Any advice on that?

Last edited by Eagle3; 12/21/21 08:54 AM.

Me(45)EXH(44)
M:15 T:18, S19, S16 & S16
04/19-02/20 ILYB & OW1
12/20-08/22 OW2 (+pregnant-his child)
03/22-Divorce official
06/22-08/23 Reconnecting
09/23-possible back with OW2
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
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Eagle,

I do not post in the MLC forum much because I am not a big believer in MLC per se. I believe every long term marriage has an MLC component to it where a spouse wakes up one day and says "is this all there is to life". Healthy people will work there way through it and unhealthy people will run searching for happiness.

What made me post was reading you say "change my tactics". There are no tactics to apply it's a journey that must be taken. There is absolutely nothing you can do to change the course of his direction and that is sometimes a bitter pill to swallow. I see a lot of cake eating which if you read my posts I am not a fan of. I also see you letting him off the hook for having affairs and destroying your family. Certainly your choice but I would want him to have to wrestle with that for a really long time.

If you are being honest and you have zero expectations then I think you are on the right path to having a potential friendship after the marriage.

Again just my opinion. I wish you peace and happiness.

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Good Morning Eagle

I like the usage of G.

To an outsider it may appear strange. Ha, this is a strange situation. G, XW - both exist within him.

It was little surprise that STBXH (soon to be XH) had not read the divorce papers. That seems to be such a commonplace behaviour of these crisis folks. Myself, I read every single word and clause, serval times before signing my agreement. I’m sure you did the same.

Originally Posted by Eagle3
In the car on the way back we were both silent. My emotions took over there and I started to cry silently. Luckily we were home quickly and I told him I was going for a walk. He saw that I was crying and started to cry too. We hugged each other and I left. He wanted to join me but I needed time to myself. After a walk of an hour I had put everything back together. It is what it is. We have to move forward. And eventually I’m glad I signed the papers.

(((Hugs)))

You did well and took care of the business side. The rest is in the hands of God. Live your life well. Such is a lighthouse.

G is considering treatment for alcohol, anger issues, depression, and faces a pending job decision. He is awakening to his life and the consequences of his choices and actions. That’s a tough thing to come to terms with.

Originally Posted by Eagle3
I also wanted to share with you something about the OW’s. What really struck me during the open conversations I had with him is that the fact that they are together with an OW, it is the OW itself that shows and learns a lot about themselves. It's just as if the OW is helping them bring out their demons and show them who they really are.

I can't explain it but the fact they say the affair has to run its course, I'm starting to understand this more and more. Strange to say, but apparently it also has a purpose.

Well done!

The affair(s) are just a symptom of a crisis. However, the affair does serve a purpose. Consider, XH could have gone to counselling or something else. But no, he had an affair. He was driven towards it.

This does not excuse his immoral behaviour; it does explain it a bit. These lost souls are in torment and are looking for a key to their happiness. An affair is the easy answer. It never works! They have to look inside themselves and grow up.

Some affairs do remain and last. They grow up, both them and AP. The once symptom affair morphed along into a relationship. This is more in the minority of outcomes.

The affair, a symptom of the crisis, needs to runs its course. Just like the crisis needs to run its course. The affair partner is just something to take their minds off their torment. It’s more running from their pain than running towards this new partner.

Yes, an affair will bring forth more demons than it will quash. The AP being a mirror for the unfaithful to look into. The very thing they are trying to run from. Ah, trying. The predisposition to fail. There is a reason an affair is considered a sin.

Originally Posted by Eagle3
The only thing I have to guard against is the fact that there is an enormous physical attraction between us. Our intimate life has always been very intense and now that he lives back at home, that dynamic comes back completely, which is actually not advisable. He is still convinced that we cannot be in a relationship anymore. Too much happened, can't give what I deserve, children will have to be able to deal with new partners in the future etc.

I tell him I don't need him anymore, but that I’m there for him.

Maybe I should change my tactics here. No more intimate contacts and keep my distance, but in a good way? Any advice on that?

Some advice:

H actually calls you his lighthouse. OMG! Think about that. He aspires to your life.

He bemoans that too much has happened, can’t give you what you deserve, cannot be in a relationship, etc… This is all projection of his inner feelings. Negative and absolute. The two major hallmarks of depression and depressive thoughts/feelings.

Be the lighthouse. Live and love your life. Let him catch up.

“I tell him I don't need him anymore, but that I’m there for him.”

Perhaps, “I tell him I don't need him anymore, but I still want him.”

Or better yet, “I still want him.”

G wants to be wanted. Like all of us do.

G wants to be needed. Like of all us do.

Of course needy can be unhealthy; capitalized Needed as in codependency. The more lowercase needed/wanted/desired type thing is excellent.

“I tell him I don't need him anymore”, soften this a bit. G doesn’t need to hear it. He sees it. He needs to hear and see (and so do you) your desires, acceptance, willingness, forgiveness, and such.

Go slow. With no pressure.

Originally Posted by Eagle3
Maybe I should change my tactics here. No more intimate contacts and keep my distance, but in a good way?

There is no OW anymore. Right? If she is out of the picture, then there is no cake eating. Be intimate. You are working towards a reconciliation. If you weren’t, you’d not be considering all these things.

G is not showing disrespect. He is making progress. He is talking openly. No need to alter your approach. It is working. Be patient. Dig deep. This is a slow journey. And you want it slow.

The divorce is signed. The business side is settled. The emotional path remains.

Act as if. Be with G. Encourage G. Have dinner together. Watch movies. Talk. Do your own thing. Let him do his own thing. Show trust. Build a relationship, slowly.

And when XH is around, leave him be. Not all cold turkey, just a bit less. Lol.

Eagle, G aspires to be better. He is not sure how, nor sure that he can be. His “being convinced” is really himself questioning himself. He is looking to you for affirmation. And that affirmation is actually for his desire and wanting of you and a great life, not for what he is actually saying.

And yes, it’s in that order. You and a great life. They circle back to that which they discarded, in the reverse order of how it all went down. Reconciling with first things, pets, children, then spouse. The thing they first destroyed and discarded is the last to reconcile with - themselves. Their life.

G stands upon the threshold of his life anew. Will he step into it? I hope so. Time will tell. For now, he is reconciling with you.

D


Feelings are fleeting.
Be better, not bitter.
Love the person, forgive the sin.
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I think I disagree with D here. He’s told you he can’t give you what you deserve - believe him! And I wouldn’t be having sex with him without him being tested for stds and using condoms.

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