My Story P3...Acceptance of the MLC Madness

[Eagle3]

Breathe. It will be alright.

Thanks. I know I will. This one will have a little more structure. 😉

I have been in the bargaining phase the beginning of this year, followed by depression, came out, proceeded with D as I was ready for it, (remember I was about to sell the house), but went back about 3 months ago. Why, because I saw improvement in H, believed the manipulative behavior (he did not want to sell so he did his thing to draw me back in, which worked…), but had an awakening the last days. I guess I’m mad at myself for having this relapse.

“I can’t and won’t allow this anymore.” You don’t control that. You have no power to forbid nor disallow H from seeing OW2 or OW3,4,5. You can only control you. D[quote]

I know I only control my path. My wording was wrong. I know this, this is upon him, but I can say to not allow this in my life.

[quote=DnJ]Be hopeful. H actually went and talked to someone. He sees and acknowledges some of his past. This is far more than my XW has ever done. Consider that.D[quote]

Yes DnJ, I’m hopeful, hopeful for him that this can help him to follow the right direction and proceed with healing.

But I have a choice not to wait for this anymore.

This evening he accused me of pulling the kids away from him (have always done the exact opposite, he is the one pushing them away but he needs someone to blame), I suffocate him (he is already a year away from home, I never initiate calls or texts), he wants divorce, he’s paying too much money for the kids etc. Blame-blame-blame. Can he do that, Of course, but I don’t want to hear it anymore. Yet again my choice. So I walk away.

[quote=DnJ]Discuss openly with kids their wishes. At 17 and 14, your three boys are old enough to make informed decisions. Talk with them individually first to ensure each speaks their heart and mind without any peer affect.

I have done this. S17 doesn’t want to live anymore under one roof with him. He wants our own place, and wants to visit his father once and awhile, not on a regular basis. He is not old enough to decide this following our law, but they ask the preference of the children.

Twins14 both have the same opinion. They will go regularly but only 2 days every 14 days. Only when his behavior is ok.

[quote=DnJ]Yes, you did create your own BD.
I’m not sure you meant the wording you used. It is completely accurate. It is your BD!D[quote]

Haha, I meant the wording I used!

[quote=DnJ]Less words is better.

Telling him you let go is much less effective than just doing it.D

I know. I always use too much words. I’m a bit of a control freak and always think they won’t understand me if I don’t point it out clearly.

My dear friend, it’s not the answers you desperately seek, for you are still formulating the deep questions. Regardless, clear direction is still possible and helps with finding both question and answer.

[quote=DnJ]For what’s it worth, those that say “I don’t care” actually do care. One who truly doesn’t care, doesn’t care enough to mention it, they just leave or move on or whatever.
So let’s agree and admit you still care.

No ultimatum!

Of course I agree. I do still care and an ultimatum is not an option.
(Anger = emotion took over in this sentence)

Thank you for the last part of your reply. All the answers are in there, and I even didn’t have to think about it. (Was exactly what I wanted when I came out of bargaining/ depression last time)

I do know what I want:

Do I want to be divorced?
No, I only want financial security, which is ok for now, with exception of the house. If I want to buy a new house, I will need to be divorced, otherwise all our belongings are still mutual. Something to keep in mind.

Do I still want to live under one roof with him, even though it is only a few days a month?
No, I don’t. I want to have my own place, separately from him, meaning he has to buy it or we need to sell it.

Do I want to let go and leave it in the hands of ….???
Yes, I want to let go. I’m standing for me now.
If H chooses the right path again, we will see from there.

Glad this is just before bedtime. This will give me some peace this night.

[Eagle3]

Sorry, less structured then I thought it would be. Typing on an I phone is not working that well. And can’t amend anymore. The entire post seems to be from DnJ but is not the case. You’ll see my answers every time underneath.

[DnJ]

Hi Eagle

Thought I’d give you hand.

Breathe. It will be alright.

Thanks. I know I will. This one will have a little more structure. 😉

I have been in the bargaining phase the beginning of this year, followed by depression, came out, proceeded with D as I was ready for it, (remember I was about to sell the house), but went back about 3 months ago. Why, because I saw improvement in H, believed the manipulative behavior (he did not want to sell so he did his thing to draw me back in, which worked…), but had an awakening the last days. I guess I’m mad at myself for having this relapse.

“I can’t and won’t allow this anymore.” You don’t control that. You have no power to forbid nor disallow H from seeing OW2 or OW3,4,5. You can only control you.

I know I only control my path. My wording was wrong. I know this, this is upon him, but I can say to not allow this in my life.

Be hopeful. H actually went and talked to someone. He sees and acknowledges some of his past. This is far more than my XW has ever done. Consider that.

Yes DnJ, I’m hopeful, hopeful for him that this can help him to follow the right direction and proceed with healing.

But I have a choice not to wait for this anymore.

This evening he accused me of pulling the kids away from him (have always done the exact opposite, he is the one pushing them away but he needs someone to blame), I suffocate him (he is already a year away from home, I never initiate calls or texts), he wants divorce, he’s paying too much money for the kids etc. Blame-blame-blame. Can he do that, Of course, but I don’t want to hear it anymore. Yet again my choice. So I walk away.

Discuss openly with kids their wishes. At 17 and 14, your three boys are old enough to make informed decisions. Talk with them individually first to ensure each speaks their heart and mind without any peer affect.

I have done this. S17 doesn’t want to live anymore under one roof with him. He wants our own place, and wants to visit his father once and awhile, not on a regular basis. He is not old enough to decide this following our law, but they ask the preference of the children.

Twins14 both have the same opinion. They will go regularly but only 2 days every 14 days. Only when his behavior is ok.

Yes, you did create your own BD.

I’m not sure you meant the wording you used. It is completely accurate. It is your BD!

Haha, I meant the wording I used!

Less words is better.

Telling him you let go is much less effective than just doing it.

I know. I always use too much words. I’m a bit of a control freak and always think they won’t understand me if I don’t point it out clearly.

My dear friend, it’s not the answers you desperately seek, for you are still formulating the deep questions. Regardless, clear direction is still possible and helps with finding both question and answer.

For what’s it worth, those that say “I don’t care” actually do care. One who truly doesn’t care, doesn’t care enough to mention it, they just leave or move on or whatever.
So let’s agree and admit you still care.

No ultimatum!

Of course I agree. I do still care and an ultimatum is not an option.
(Anger = emotion took over in this sentence)

Thank you for the last part of your reply. All the answers are in there, and I even didn’t have to think about it. (Was exactly what I wanted when I came out of bargaining/ depression last time)

I do know what I want:

Do I want to be divorced?
No, I only want financial security, which is ok for now, with exception of the house. If I want to buy a new house, I will need to be divorced, otherwise all our belongings are still mutual. Something to keep in mind.

Do I still want to live under one roof with him, even though it is only a few days a month?
No, I don’t. I want to have my own place, separately from him, meaning he has to buy it or we need to sell it.

Do I want to let go and leave it in the hands of ….???
Yes, I want to let go. I’m standing for me now.
If H chooses the right path again, we will see from there.

Glad this is just before bedtime. This will give me some peace this night.

Sleep well.

[Eagle3]

Thank you DnJ. What would I do without you...

Your last post gave me a clear direction again for which I'm so thankfull.

After monstering on Sunday evening H is in guilty-modus again and has been extremely friendly so I took the opportunity to have everything in writing in regards to the house and he agreed.

Now of course he need to take action. (request for a loan so he can buy in)

This afternoon he is coming over to the house to talk. His request. Will see what he has to say. I won't say much, just listen and I'll see from there. Tomorrow he is off to the other country again.

Wish me luck!

Have a nice day.

[DnJ]

Good Morning Eagle

Well done!

Be patient and opportunities do present themselves. And being prepared for those opportunities is a good thing.

See what this afternoon’s talk brings, and go from there.

Wishing you good luck!

D

[Eagle3]

Went for a drink with H yesterday as he wanted to talk.

What really struck me is how broken this man is, he is still trying to revive it but I can't imagine this will go on for years. You can see how he also realizes it slightly, but is still in the phase where he doesn't want or can't change anything yet. (examples of his realization are that he knows he has a major depression, that his problems are relatated to the love he never had from his mother but he doesn't seem to make the link that he projects this on the people he loves the most)
Anyway, this is in his hands, not in mine anymore.

I just wanted to give you a brief outline of what his way of thinking is.

H would love nothing more than to be able to live his own life (including having OW's)
but still function as a family.
He sincerely believes this and really could not understand that this was not possible for me.
He gave an example of a famous couple who still live together with their children under the same roof. (was in the paper last week)
Important nuance, those people have 1 clear boundary, they do this as long as the two parties don't have another partner in their lives.
When I clarified this he seemed to understand a bit what I meant but this was gone just as quickly.

I made it clear to him that this is not what I want.
He seemed to accept that perfectly, but couldn't understand it, and if I can't do that, then there is no other option then to go forward with the divorce, I simply agreed.

At one point he said that I am the woman of his life but that today he cannot give me what I want but that I will always come first.
If there is a family party that I have to attend, another woman will never be welcome there. He decides what to do in his life, another woman will have nothing to say.
(I guess he will always have relationships of very short duration…)

He also became more talkative about his visit to the psychiatrist and his current relationship with his mother. So H knows that he has depression and has also discussed this with the psychiatrist.
However, this psychiatrist has not recommended any medication for H, the reason is because he is still functioning in his job and if he started taking medication he would have too many other side effects that could affect his functioning at work.

As for his mother. He sees his mother as a handy tool (this is exactly the word he used!!). She is good to pick him up and take him to the airport, to know the latest gossip (she always has something to say about everyone, H likes to hear all these stories since his MLC and through her he knows everything).
The bottom line is that he will treat her the same now as she has treated him all her life. He knows she treats him like a child because she thinks she will get money from him, and thus gives her "hope" but he will never give her anything, he wants to punish her for what she has done. (I honestly didn't know what I heard, even less what to say to that, so I just kept quiet...)

Conclusion of the conversation:
• We continue with the divorce, I'm picking up where I left it a few months ago.
• I retain custody of the children, he will have them 1 weekend every 2 weeks.
• He checks to buy in the house, as long as the full process is not completed, he will stay in airBnB when in the country, so no longer in the house.

Furthermore, he plans not to move to the home country but to a neighboring country. Supposedly for the money, because he can earn more in that country because of the different way of taxation, in reality I think this is an intermediate step, that he wants to live closer but not completely in his own country yet.

How do I feel about it:

For me today it gave and still gives me a feeling of liberation, of relief for now. When you start looking at them from a distance, you actually realize that you can't change their condition.
So I am at peace with it. I'm relieved that I can let go of the burden that I'am the one who had to help him go through this. I actually believed this for a very long time. I realize more and more I can't.

H just sent a text message: Thanks for talking and listening yesterday. I hope we keep doing that because I will also need this on how to handle the kids and so on.

My answer: You're welcome. You know that you will be able to count on me in difficult times, however some things will take time and space.

Unfortunately, I can't pretend to be anything other than who I actually am. I have therefore also sent this answer, because I know that this is what I will effectively apply to him.

But I will now fully initiate the letting go process.

So on the way to a new life. Together with the support of my loving family, friends, and above all, all of you who understand me so well, I know I will get there!

xxx

[kml]

Let’s run his conversation through the Universal BS Translator, shall we?

“Why oh why can’t I continue to have my cake and eat it too? Why can’t I live away from my family and live like a single man and indulge my sexual fantasies and avoid responsibility for raising my children, while you chastely wait on the shelf and raise my children and keep my house do I can come and go as I please? Oh, and don’t YOU get involved with another man, because that would upset me, even though I don’t give a sh!t about the pain my cheating causes you”.

Call it for what it is. Move forward. A better life awaits you.

[DnJ]

Hello Eagle

H is one lost and confused soul.

He clearly displays some of the major hallmarks of a MLC. Crisis individuals display confusion. Not just a “hey where am I”, they display a deep profound disconnect. That disconnect comes from them living two (or more) simultaneous lives. I don’t mean some cover up lying - I mean really living two different view points inside their head.

BD usually is a time where one view becomes predominate and they really start running. If it is fated, some slow their running and those other view(s) return to the fore. An awakening would have such duality of life with none to very little running behaviours.

H is very confused. Wants to have his own life and still be a family. He can understand why you have the view you have and then he cannot understand. Back and forth he will switch, ping-ponging and flip-flopping. He is still running and still within the abyss of a crisis.

His view of his Mom is pretty interesting. Especially the language and wording he used. Lots of buried stuff regarding that, methinks.

And of course he had the MLCer standard example of the “other couple” that this works for. Lol.

H is still driven by emotions. These different views of his are all valid and true - at the time he is feeling them. That may be for mere seconds to minutes to hours. You saw him switch right in front of your eyes and within the space of two sentences.

Emotions and irrational convictions. That is where and what his living at the moment. Nothing you can say or do will lift him out of that. He has to work his own way through.

kml’s succinct summary translation is pretty accurate of the completely irrational view he is feeling.

For me today it gave and still gives me a feeling of liberation, of relief for now. When you start looking at them from a distance, you actually realize that you can't change their condition.

So glad you feel liberated and a sense of relief. It is quite a view once we step back and take it in. We really are quite powerless to affect their path. Not so for our path.

So I am at peace with it. I'm relieved that I can let go of the burden that I'am the one who had to help him go through this. I actually believed this for a very long time. I realize more and more I can't.

Love that peaceful feeling. And yes, letting go is so much a relief.

I really like you finding this belief you needed to alter, to discard. We all hold certain convictions, certain beliefs. Strengthen those that serve. Alter/discard those that don’t. Believing you had to help H go through this took some time and distance for you to realize and then alter. Well done! Be proud, that is no small task or small victory. This is a major step forward and a major step in healing. Our beliefs and values shape and define our world, and you are doing very well with your world view.

Conclusion of the conversation:
• We continue with the divorce, I'm picking up where I left it a few months ago.
• I retain custody of the children, he will have them 1 weekend every 2 weeks.
• He checks to buy in the house, as long as the full process is not completed, he will stay in airBnB when in the country, so no longer in the house.

Very good. I hope he does continue as he stated.

So on the way to a new life. Together with the support of my loving family, friends, and above all, all of you who understand me so well, I know I will get there!

Absolutely you will get there!

Take your time discovering that new life. You are worth doing it right and fully.

For the next little while you have some legal stuff to sort out. You’ve got a good plan and had things ready. You’ve done all you could do and now is the time to continue.

You so got this!

D

[Eagle3]

“Why oh why can’t I continue to have my cake and eat it too? Why can’t I live away from my family and live like a single man and indulge my sexual fantasies and avoid responsibility for raising my children, while you chastely wait on the shelf and raise my children and keep my house do I can come and go as I please? Oh, and don’t YOU get involved with another man, because that would upset me, even though I don’t give a sh!t about the pain my cheating causes you”.

Pretty straightforward but ohhh so true. Thank you for your honesty.

Call it for what it is. Move forward. A better life awaits you.

I know...first getting through the D now...

[Eagle3]

For the next little while you have some legal stuff to sort out. You’ve got a good plan and had things ready. You’ve done all you could do and now is the time to continue.

You so got this!D

I will move forward now indeed. Thank you DnJ.

Received some news today from SIL which I need to process.

Apparantely H shared some pictures of him and OW2 a few weeks ago with his youngest brother.
So nobody did officially know he was seeing someone else, of course they had their doubts, but now he simply sent some pictures with the comment @.....right now.

Hi did exactly the same thing with his younger brother a week ago. 1 picture of the both together, simply mentioning @.......

So this is the first time in 3 years he really shared hard evidence of an OW with anybody. But smart enough did not tell anybody she is his OW.

The whole family knows now, except for the children and me.

I feel very uncomfortable, for myself but definitely also towards the kids.

I can't tolerate anymore the fact he is lying to all of us.

I've always been very honest towards the children but now I don't know what to do.

S17 overheard the conversation and is furious. He wants to quit communication with him.
Twins14 are not aware yet but know something is going on.

Do I need to tell them? They've asked and I told them I don't want to share the information right now but that I would think about it.

Is it OK to tell the children that the suspected relationship their father is having is for real and that the family is aware of it?

I know 1 of them will break all contact as well. He told me several times in the past he would not tolerate this in his life when he knows for sure.

I personally want to go NC with him, have done enough and can't bare his BS anymore about his FOO's and depression etc.

Then we have the fact that SIL told this in privacy, I don't want her to get in trouble.

How do I deal with this?

Thx.