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Eagle3 Offline OP
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Link to my previous thread:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2918764#Post2918764

Short summary:

BD April 2019 with the famous ILYBNILWY.
Started an affair a few weeks before that timing. Immediately found out. Lying, spewing, rewriting of history, wanting both of us, etc. until I kicked him out 09/2019. Came back 2 months later, totally broken. (way too soon)
Final break-up with OW 02/2020.

COVID so home from 02/2020 until 08/2020. Deep outward depression, first signs of aknowledgement that something is really wrong with him. Still shows a lot of running behavior such as drinking heavily.

Accepts new job abroad since 04/2020, working from home since COVID, asked him to leave for the other country in 08/2020 since behavior is extremely bad for myself and my 3 boys, all teenagers.

From 09/2020 until 12/2020 slightly showing improvement whilst abroad, new running behavior...working out (sports) to an extreme level. As from 12/2020 clear set-back into tunnel (possible new OW in the picture)

01/2021 asked for divorce, I agree.

Same month he informs me that OW1 passed away. (suicide)

01/2021 - 06/2021: Process of D is in my hands, since he doesn't act.
Most of the financial stuff is arranged, except for the house which is still mutual but he pays half of all the costs currently. I stopped doing anything in regards to the D since I got stronger and completely detached now.

06/2021 - present: slight improvements, definitely towards kids (altough still very difficult) - quite convinced there has been an OW2 for about 6 months but affaire is breaking in pieces or has ended.
Planning to come back to home country (accepted new job within current company)

09/2021: aknowledges strongly he can't get out of it on his own, so now in contact with retired psychiatrist from his past.


Me(45)EXH(44)
M:15 T:18, S19, S16 & S16
04/19-02/20 ILYB & OW1
12/20-08/22 OW2 (+pregnant-his child)
03/22-Divorce official
06/22-08/23 Reconnecting
09/23-possible back with OW2
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Eagle3 Offline OP
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Start of thread 3, my lucky number, hopefully this means something laugh


Me(45)EXH(44)
M:15 T:18, S19, S16 & S16
04/19-02/20 ILYB & OW1
12/20-08/22 OW2 (+pregnant-his child)
03/22-Divorce official
06/22-08/23 Reconnecting
09/23-possible back with OW2
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What an amazing story! What an amazing psychiatrist! WOW. I would not even write this into a novel, it seems so impossible! I love this story so much. What hope that brings to this situation. Redemption is possible anywhere I guess.

That said, remember that you can't change anything about this. You can't save H. That will be up to him. You can only decide if you'll take him back.

Think of Mother Theresa, she would say whatever she had to say in love, but she was tough! People would come to ask for prayer advice and she would hand them a broom. Say what you need to say in love. If you think he doesn't know that you are standing, you can say it, once.


I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord with courage.
Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
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Eagle3 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Gerda
What an amazing story! What an amazing psychiatrist! WOW. I would not even write this into a novel, it seems so impossible! I love this story so much. What hope that brings to this situation. Redemption is possible anywhere I guess.

Yes, it is. I'm glad I have contacted the man. I know I can't change the situation or save H but I felt he was ready for it and he took the opportunity with both hands.
H actually thanked me several times for doing that.
He made an appointment and will visit him the end of september, while he is over to look after the children when I'm away on a city trip with my best friend.

Pretty life changing as well. It is the first time he actually offered to come over to look after the children while I'm away.

So the talking of the last months about losing his children seems to turn into actions which is good.
He is also much more active with them the last weeks via phone, whatsapp etc.
I'm happy for them.

Originally Posted by Gerda
Think of Mother Theresa, she would say whatever she had to say in love, but she was tough! People would come to ask for prayer advice and she would hand them a broom. Say what you need to say in love. If you think he doesn't know that you are standing, you can say it, once.

I've told him, he knows. Won't repeat it again. wink


Me(45)EXH(44)
M:15 T:18, S19, S16 & S16
04/19-02/20 ILYB & OW1
12/20-08/22 OW2 (+pregnant-his child)
03/22-Divorce official
06/22-08/23 Reconnecting
09/23-possible back with OW2
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Posts: 403
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Eagle3 Offline OP
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Hi everyone,

No huge plans this weekend, but since they predict that this will be the last weekend where we have some summer temperatures we will enjoy it to the fullest.

Today mainly sports for the children. All sports are back in full swing after the summer holidays so this means playing taxi driver but I don't care, I actually enjoy this.

This evening (early evening) the twins 14 are going out with their friends for the first time, of course not too long but they are looking forward to it.

This means S17 and I can enjoy THE perfect hamburger in a very nice restaurant close to our home.

Tomorrow lunch with my parents and shopping with the kids in the afternoon, and then movie night in the evening. We're looking at some classics. Want to learn them what good movies are. grin

Enjoy your weekend xxx

Last edited by Eagle3; 09/25/21 01:09 PM.

Me(45)EXH(44)
M:15 T:18, S19, S16 & S16
04/19-02/20 ILYB & OW1
12/20-08/22 OW2 (+pregnant-his child)
03/22-Divorce official
06/22-08/23 Reconnecting
09/23-possible back with OW2
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 403
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Eagle3 Offline OP
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Something to share which happened over the weekend.

FIL came by the house today.
Apparantely he received a phone call yesterday from H.
As you know H has almost no contact with his F since BD, although they were the best friends before his MLC.
FIL was also the first to mention about the retired psychiatrist shortly after BD and back then we tried to find him together but didn’t succeed and H knows some of it since I told him this story recently.
He also knows I told his F that I found the doctor and that H has made an appointment with him.

FIL always supported me heavily from the beginning, we have a very good relationship and he helped me with the kids in an incredible way, he is one of the most goodharted persons I got to know in my life until now.

Anyway, H called to say that FIL and I are one of the most honest and sincere people he knows, that the both of us have always supported him in our own way and understand what is really going on with him.
That he is so glad I searched for the psychiatrist and that this gesture is something he is very greatful for. His F is really cautious if it comes to H, he doesn’t trust him and even let him go about a year after BD because it was to painful for him to see his son turn into someone he didn’t know anymore. Therefore he didn’t say much on the phone, he simply listened and validated. (so handled it in the best way he could)

Seems H had a little peek out of the tunnel again…


Me(45)EXH(44)
M:15 T:18, S19, S16 & S16
04/19-02/20 ILYB & OW1
12/20-08/22 OW2 (+pregnant-his child)
03/22-Divorce official
06/22-08/23 Reconnecting
09/23-possible back with OW2
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,645
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Hello Eagle

It does sound like H has had further moments of clarity.

Hopefully, H’s long ago psychiatrist can be a catalyst for H to see his way.

A call to his Dad is a good sign. No idea how long H’s journey is, although he has taken some good sized steps lately.

It is nice to hear H speak about honesty and sincerity. And of course it is even nicer that you and FIL were the one’s being spoken about.

Keep on keeping on my dear. Time will tell all. Until then, be patient and live that great life.

Quite an update. Thanks for sharing it.

D


Feelings are fleeting.
Be better, not bitter.
Love the person, forgive the sin.
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Eagle3 Offline OP
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Hi,

DnJ posted this to me a while ago:
‘One a personal note. Well everything here is meant for you. Ok, on a topic directly about your path. You are experiencing the stage of bargaining.
I found bargaining to be such a weird time. It is the last ditch emotional effort to hang on to that “old” normal. Before one moves forwards and let’s go. It’s the precursor to the depression that follows moving towards accepting the loss.’

I believe DnJ is right.

First of all you know that when H left the last time I was going to send him a message in regards to my acknowledgement of him seeing an OW2. I didn’t since I wanted to hold on to what was left between us because I saw improvements, and secondly I wanted to make sure he contacted the psychiatrist, which he did. (I understand now that these are two separate things)

Now this week back in the house since I was on a city trip and he wanted to look after the kids. Well, in all honesty, he is showing the worst behavior again, definitely towards the kids, even accused S17 of taking drugs. (This is only one example, there are many more)
He did meet the psychiatrist, is this the trigger for him acting out like this again, I don’t know, but I’m done with it.

I also saw something again, proof of OW2 being with him during the summer when he was travelling. Conclusion, found the strength to confront him with this. I can’t and won’t allow this anymore.

Why is it when things seem to improve, suddenly this changes and the worst behavior comes out again.

I need to let him go, really, I won’t allow it to be dragged into this once more.

I really want to find the strength now to get through this.


Me(45)EXH(44)
M:15 T:18, S19, S16 & S16
04/19-02/20 ILYB & OW1
12/20-08/22 OW2 (+pregnant-his child)
03/22-Divorce official
06/22-08/23 Reconnecting
09/23-possible back with OW2
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 403
Likes: 38
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Eagle3 Offline OP
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My next thread will be a bit of everything but I want to be clear as much as possible since I would like your opinions. I know this is an emotional thread, I'm clearly aware of that but it is what it is and I need to vent.

When I came back from my trip I asked him how the visit with the psychiatrist went. He was very brief in his communication. That all went well, that he had loss trauma, and that he developed learning disabilities because of that. Also that his Mother never has been a real M and that this was the cause of this, together with the divorce of his parents. I asked him if he would go again and he told me he received two names, but that they will most probably won't have time for him currently. He also said that he talked a lot with him and he told him things he needed to think through, that maybe he would go another time later this year, after he considered their conversation thoroughly. I guess this says it all.

Kids are fed up with the whole situation. They don't want to be with him anymore on a regular basis.
He said some very painfull and embarrassing things which I won't put on here.

Yesterday I created my own BD I guess. Confronted him with the fact that I saw proof of him being on trips with OW2 during summer and that this is adultory since we are still married. That this is too painful and that I don't want to be confronted with that. Been there once, don't want this anymore.

He doesn't want to talk, always runs away so only option was to send him this message by text.

I have done this in a very polite, and friendly way. No clinging at all. Can't do that anymore. Way past this now.

Of course replied in a very manipulative and controlling way.

He reffered to a conversation we had 3 weeks ago (he was tipsy to drunk then) whereby he mentioned that he had something going on with OW2 but that he doesn't know which direction this was going since he can't have a connection with anyone anymore, including her. So that there currently wasn't a relationship.

Told him correct, but you also told me that you were travelling alone, which clearly wasn't the case.
I've told him to be honest with me, I asked him if he was dating OW, didn't receive an answer. Sent him a new message and worded it differently, 'since you do not want to answer to this question, do you want to go further with your life without me? He replied, 'talk on Wednesday without kids'. (on Thursday he is leaving again)

He also stated in his messages that I've told him several times that I have let him go. That I was the one who wanted closure, and then he said "I can't be responsible for all you mind switches???'

Told him that my view on things never changed, that emotionally I had to let him go, because the situation was too painfull but that I still stood for our marriage, that I clearly mentioned this during our last conversation and several times before. (which you can see in my previous threads)

Therefore I need your guidance as to which ways this might go the following days.

Please know that I have reached the point whereby I will accept whatever direction this will go.
But I refuse to go on like this, I want to have answers, and they need to have a clear direction.

This evening he will come home drunk since he went for lunch with an aquaintance and afterwards to watch a football game. Will see what happens then but I will refuse to talk to him when drunk.

He is away from Monday till Wednesday on Business trip.

For the 'talk" on Wednesday I'm planning to put him for an ultimatum(I know, this is pressure, but I'm fed up, yes this is emotional talk, but I don't care anymore)

1/ Commitment to rebuilding relationship with homebase (= including children and me). He works on himself when coming back to home country, sees a psychiatrist on a regular basis.

2/ Go further with life without me by his side. House will be sold or can be bought in. D process can be started.

I know he will choose the 2nd option but I'm ready for it. I don't want another night wasting my sleep feeling anxious because I'm kept in the dark and being threated like a doormat.
I have been more than 2.5 years in the dark now. There is and end to everything.

Does this mean I'm giving up all the way? No, I'm giving up the current marriage and situation.

I know it will be difficult but option 1 would be equally difficult, definitely because he is still in full blown crisis.

God, what a mess...sorry for the outburst.


Me(45)EXH(44)
M:15 T:18, S19, S16 & S16
04/19-02/20 ILYB & OW1
12/20-08/22 OW2 (+pregnant-his child)
03/22-Divorce official
06/22-08/23 Reconnecting
09/23-possible back with OW2
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,645
Likes: 472
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Good Morning Eagle

(((Hugs)))

Breathe. It will be alright.

Let’s unpack some of what you said and together find your possibilities and forward path.

Yes, everything here is meant for you. Your well being is paramount. Marriage is a bonus, if it is meant to be.

Originally Posted by Eagle3
First of all you know that when H left the last time I was going to send him a message in regards to my acknowledgement of him seeing an OW2. I didn’t since I wanted to hold on to what was left between us because I saw improvements, and secondly I wanted to make sure he contacted the psychiatrist, which he did. (I understand now that these are two separate things)

H has contacted the psychiatrist. Good. You’ve done your part. The rest is on H. You can let this go now.

Back a few years ago I was grasping at straws. Bargaining and trying (note: trying not doing smile ) to get things back to how they were or more accurately start XW on her path to get her back to here. One of those “tries” was some medical information which I knew she would never accept from me. So, my one and only time I had my son pass on some helpful information to his Mom. She did nothing with the information.

I did what I could. Son knew I cared about his Mom and he did what he could. After that, she is in God’s hands.

Bargaining is part of our healing. It is a normal response to loss and a healthy part of the process.

Originally Posted by Eagle3
[This] will be a bit of everything but I want to be clear as much as possible since I would like your opinions. I know this is an emotional thread, I'm clearly aware of that but it is what it is and I need to vent.

This is a good place to vent. You are among understanding friends.

I will give you my opinion. Like always, directly and straightforwardly. You deserve and are worthy of such honest and open feedback.

Originally Posted by Eagle3
I also saw something again, proof of OW2 being with him during the summer when he was travelling. Conclusion, found the strength to confront him with this. I can’t and won’t allow this anymore.

“I can’t and won’t allow this anymore.” You don’t control that. You have no power to forbid nor disallow H from seeing OW2 or OW3,4,5. You can only control you.

Originally Posted by Eagle3
Why is it when things seem to improve, suddenly this changes and the worst behavior comes out again.

That’s the way the MLCer’s path goes. An improvement means they have some clarity of their life and their choices. That clarity not only brings into the light their past but their present as well. And a MLCers present is not a pretty sight. Loads of guilt and shame and wrongful accusations towards their loving spouse and immoral behaviour and terrible parenting and on and on.

They see some and they dive back into the tunnel. Each time growing a bit, and faltering a bit. It’s lots to face. Unfortunately they do keep digging the hole they are in. They continue to run.

Rock bottom is when they decide to face it and stop digging / running. Until then, it’s cycle. One which the LBS needs not watch nor have expectations towards. Hope is good. Keep expectations dialed down to zero.

Originally Posted by Eagle3
I need to let him go, really, I won’t allow it to be dragged into this once more.

That is completely within your control. Well, influence actually. I will discuss this further in our discussion.

Originally Posted by Eagle3
I really want to find the strength now to get through this.

You have the strength. You lack the direction and focus. I will clarify.

Originally Posted by Eagle3
When I came back from my trip I asked him how the visit with the psychiatrist went. He was very brief in his communication. That all went well, that he had loss trauma, and that he developed learning disabilities because of that. Also that his Mother never has been a real M and that this was the cause of this, together with the divorce of his parents. I asked him if he would go again and he told me he received two names, but that they will most probably won't have time for him currently. He also said that he talked a lot with him and he told him things he needed to think through, that maybe he would go another time later this year, after he considered their conversation thoroughly. I guess this says it all.

Nope, this doesn’t say it all. H has only started to uncover his trauma. Like the tip of an iceberg, that is what he sees. More remains below the surface.

Be hopeful. H actually went and talked to someone. He sees and acknowledges some of his past. This is far more than my XW has ever done. Consider that.

Originally Posted by Eagle3
Kids are fed up with the whole situation. They don't want to be with him anymore on a regular basis. He said some very painfull and embarrassing things which I won't put on here.

Discuss openly with kids their wishes. At 17 and 14, your three boys are old enough to make informed decisions. Talk with them individually first to ensure each speaks their heart and mind without any peer affect.

Give it a week. Repeat the conversation and ensure their resolve. If they are resolute, take steps towards that end.

For all of this, provide answers and guidance regarding whatever comes up. Morality and such is a pretty common theme and questioned tenet. I’m pretty sure your lads are on a good track. Encourage them to continue such a path.

Originally Posted by Eagle3
Yesterday I created my own BD I guess. Confronted him with the fact that I saw proof of him being on trips with OW2 during summer and that this is adultory since we are still married. That this is too painful and that I don't want to be confronted with that. Been there once, don't want this anymore.

Yes, you did create your own BD.

I’m not sure you meant the wording you used. It is completely accurate. It is your BD!

Your are ending (destroying) your bargaining. That “expectation-filled hope H will see the light and all hs is doing to me and the kids” stance. Letting go the last ditch effort to hang on to what was once the norm.

During this time it is pretty common to have loads of anger as well.

Originally Posted by Eagle3
He doesn't want to talk, always runs away so only option was to send him this message by text.

I have done this in a very polite, and friendly way. No clinging at all. Can't do that anymore. Way past this now.

Of course replied in a very manipulative and controlling way.

Well, not really. You had other options. Sending the text “felt” like the correct option.

This text serves it purpose for you. However, it did stir H and place a bunch of pressure upon him. Of course, his response was less than upfront.

Originally Posted by Eagle3
He reffered to a conversation we had 3 weeks ago (he was tipsy to drunk then) whereby he mentioned that he had something going on with OW2 but that he doesn't know which direction this was going since he can't have a connection with anyone anymore, including her. So that there currently wasn't a relationship.

It so interesting how people can justify things. Notice what comes after “but”. Pure justification for what preceded it. In H’s view he is technically correct and therefore not lying.

This is why relationship conversations are not recommended nor going to lead to any resolution at the moment. H is broken.

Originally Posted by Eagle3
He also stated in his messages that I've told him several times that I have let him go. That I was the one who wanted closure, and then he said "I can't be responsible for all you mind switches???'

They are masters of manipulation. H is turning the tables on you. Do not buy into his twisted justifications.

Originally Posted by Eagle3
Told him that my view on things never changed, that emotionally I had to let him go, because the situation was too painfull but that I still stood for our marriage, that I clearly mentioned this during our last conversation and several times before.

To H, this placed you firmly on the shelf and waiting for him.

Less words is better.

Telling him you let go is much less effective than just doing it.

Originally Posted by Eagle3
(which you can see in my previous threads)

Your conversation to H was for you, not H. This part in parentheses shows that. Yes, you’ve done all you can do. Give H to God and let go. It’s ok.

Originally Posted by Eagle3
Therefore I need your guidance as to which ways this might go the following days.

Please know that I have reached the point whereby I will accept whatever direction this will go.
But I refuse to go on like this, I want to have answers, and they need to have a clear direction.

My dear friend, it’s not the answers you desperately seek, for you are still formulating the deep questions. Regardless, clear direction is still possible and helps with finding both question and answer.

Originally Posted by Eagle3
For the 'talk" on Wednesday I'm planning to put him for an ultimatum(I know, this is pressure, but I'm fed up, yes this is emotional talk, but I don't care anymore)

For what’s it worth, those that say “I don’t care” actually do care. One who truly doesn’t care, doesn’t care enough to mention it, they just leave or move on or whatever.

So, let’s agree and admit you still care. (((Hug))) Bargaining is a weird place.

Originally Posted by Eagle3
1/ Commitment to rebuilding relationship with homebase (= including children and me). He works on himself when coming back to home country, sees a psychiatrist on a regular basis.

2/ Go further with life without me by his side. House will be sold or can be bought in. D process can be started.

No ultimatum!

Why would you place your future and your decisions into H’s hands? By the way, one of those questions you are wanting an answer to. An answer you didn’t even know you wanted or needed.

This ultimatum is your. You are asking it of yourself. You are forcing and basing this upon your emotions. Do not pursue this course given that which is propelling you. Regret will follow. Decisions based upon feelings seldom lead to good directions for life.

Originally Posted by Eagle3
I know he will choose the 2nd option but I'm ready for it. I don't want another night wasting my sleep feeling anxious because I'm kept in the dark and being threated like a doormat.
I have been more than 2.5 years in the dark now. There is and end to everything.

No, you do not know what he will choose. You expect he wil choose. And that is festering within you. Let go of that.

Originally Posted by DnJ
That is completely within your control. Well, influence actually. I will discuss this further in our discussion.

You have the strength. You lack the direction and focus. I will clarify.

You are only a doormat if you lay there. Right now, at this moment, you are letting go of bargaining. Letting go your emotional hanging on to what was once the norm. That feels bad! I know. Let it pass before making any major changes.

You are not a doormat. Standing is not being a doormat.

You have ample strength. Seriously, you do. What you’re not seeing - doing nothing is doing something.

You have plenty of strength to go with option 1 or 2. No doubts about that! Do you have the strength to not do either? Do you have the strength to focus on you and your life? To live your great life? Do you have the strength to let go?

We incorrectly equate strong and strength to hanging on or lifting or some action. True, in the physical realm strength is expressed in physical action. In the emotional realm, true strength is expressed in stepping back and not grabbing on.

We all can rush in and offer help and hope and feelings and such. It takes a high EQ and strength to remain calm and do what is actually required, rather than what we feel to be.

This is most true in our own lives. We live our life. We control ourselves. We benefit from good decisions and suffer consequences for poor decisions.

Your anxiety-filled sleep is from within. Nothing to do with H. Counterintuitive, yes? It is a good thing that it has nothing to do with H, otherwise you’d not be able to find peace.

Eagle, you will find your internal peace. And it will not come from option 1 or 2.

I understand your frustration and feeling that you are living in the dark. Step out of it. Step into the light.

As I said, the questions and answers you are seeking are not what you think they are. They are both within you, awaiting your own kind of awakening.

As bargaining dies, hope fades. Anger rises for a while. Be emotionally strong and stay your path. Return your focus to you. As the anger fades, depression sets in, replacing our feelings and hope for that which was once the norm.

This too shall pass. Depression passes. Acceptance will be found. Have faith. Hope returns. Love returns. Life returns. All anew and stronger than before.

Depending upon on our choices along the way, sets our path and somewhat the eventual outcome. Doing nothing is doing something. Besides, you’ll have plenty sorting out to do inside you.

Sword and shield my friend. Control what you can. Influence what you will.

Originally Posted by Eagle3
Does this mean I'm giving up all the way? No, I'm giving up the current marriage and situation.

Letting go is not giving up. Be careful of your wording. You are not giving up.

So, do you want a divorce? Do you want to end your marriage?

Divorced or not, changes nothing with what H is doing. Your pushing of this is an attempt to get him to awaken. It will have the opposite effect. Unless you need the financial protection and security from a divorce, let go this course.

Let go bargaining. Let go the situation. Get though depression. Find acceptance. Become healed and whole. Then make your decisions.

Direct and straightforward. I believe you are worth such investment. What do you believe?

D


Feelings are fleeting.
Be better, not bitter.
Love the person, forgive the sin.
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