WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont9.)

[SteveLW]

So Scott, why not come here and float the idea that you were flirting with calling your STBXW to try one last hail mary attempt at stopping the D? Oh, I know why you didn't, cause you knew we'd tell you that you shouldn't!

And then to hear how poorly she is doing made you feel better? Yeah.......I think that is your answer right there.

I'd steel yourself for the final mediation. Likely she is going to be embarrassed by the conversation and will be cold, and out to reiterate to you that the D is still on. Maybe not, but I would say the chances are high that you will be dealing with an icecube.

Also, 2x4 on the dating. So you started dating (even got pretty serious with one gal if I remember right) YET still called the STBX to stop the D? And you find that congruent? You feel that it is right to meet new women when you still want to R with your STBX? Oh and now that she gave you a 1 in a million (so you're saying there's a chance!!) hope you are completely pulling the plug on dating. All I can say about that is ROFL.

[LH19]

And then to hear how poorly she is doing made you feel better? Yeah.......I think that is your answer right there.

To add to this Scotty B I listen to a pod cast this weekend about the Buddhist interpretation of Love. If you truly loved your W you would never feel this way. What you are doing is confusing Love and attachment. You are attached to your W and having an intact family. That attachment has been a death grip on your marriage the last 5 years and continues to this day. This death grip you have pushes her farther away. Your soul focus needs to be on you and your children.

[AnotherStander]

I said I still didn't want to get divorced. She began to cry. She said I caught her off guard. She said life is really hard for her right now and that the last week had been very hard.

WAS's have a lot going on in their heads. They may seem all calm, cool and collected on the outside but inside there's a storm raging. They are torn, confused, anxious. Sometimes it comes to the surface like you saw here, but almost as soon as it does they will bury it again and resume their facade.

Her dad continues to degrade because of his dementia, her mother has an unknown health ailment which she believes is cancer - she says the doctors don't know what it is - and her mom said that whatever it is she is not going to get treatment, she would just assume die. She said that my son is disrespecting her and she doesn't know what to do about it. She said her family is a mess, her marriage is ending, and she's overwhelmed. She also mentioned the deteriorating relationship with her sister. And so she just cried on the phone.

I tried to use the skills I've been working on. I tried to listen without providing any solutions and empathize.

Good. She was just venting, not asking to be "fixed". And if you were a fixer before, then this time you showed her something different. A single example (or even a dozen examples) won't impact her, but if you keep it up then eventually she'll start to believe you really have changed.

I feel bad, but knowing that she is doing a lot worse than I am, actually in a weird way made me feel better.

Do you know the roller coaster analogy? She's riding a roller coaster with a lot of highs and lows. If you tie yourself to her feelings then you ride it as well. When she's at the peak then you think things are improving and you get your hopes up. Then down her coaster goes crashing back to the reality that she's done and there's no hope and you with it. Your job is to stay off the coaster. You're on solid ground off to the side watching her go up and down and all around. A lot of her feelings, whether good or bad, are temporary. She might dangle the carrot of reconciliation one day and then reel it right back in the next. You want to avoid pinning your own feelings on her swings.

Also, hearing in her voice that their might be a place to reconcile really made me think about whether or not that would make sense for me and I'm not sure.

If she really does get to the point of wanting to reconcile, you won't have to read the tea leaves to figure it out. She'll tell you in no uncertain terms. I've seen it happen quite a few times over the years. A WAS that was done, done, done, telling the LBS to walk away because there is no hope, ever; suddenly doing a complete reversal practically overnight and telling the LBS they were wrong and they want to work on things. Anything short of that is just background noise and you should ignore it. If you want to hold out some hope then by all means do so, but in the meantime focus on you and the kids and don't sweat whether you would take her back or not, just keep pushing yourself forward.

When I have my kids I'm pretty happy. We have a lot of fun and we're building great memories. Its really low key and low stress. I hired an interior decorator and I'm redoing my house, which is kind of stressful and sad, but also a bit empowering and the kids seem to be kind of excited about it.

Fantastic, that's a great thing to do to make the place yours and help erase some of the memory triggers.

I was dating some but I'm pulling out of that scene. It just feels like more than I'd like to deal with.

Great. I started dating prematurely (about 9 months after BD) and looking back I'm convinced it slowed down my recovery rather than boosting it.

PS AS, I read your post a couple times over some dark days. It was good.

Glad it helped. A lot of 2x4's get doled out on these forums, sometimes it's easy to forget that most of the people here are hurting and trying to work their way through this very difficult time, and need hope as much as or more than correction. And there is every reason to hope, people who have mastered DBing went on to better things whether they reconciled or not. No matter how much you are hurting now I completely and fully believe a year or two from now you will be a BETTER, HAPPIER person! It WILL happen, I can't guarantee you will reconcile but I can guarantee you will be in a much better place!

[Ready2Change]

When I have my kids I'm pretty happy.

What can you do to get to extremely happy alone?

[ScottB]

LH - I appreciate the advice. She hasn't filed but we got through our final mediation session on Monday and the attorneys are drafting paperwork.

I don't relish that she isn't doing well - but it made me feel better. There is a difference. One is logical and the other is emotional.

As for my STBEx, her MO is to go with the flow regardless of what she thinks or feels and her inner world is typically run by others. She needs help.

I reread some of the things you've posted. I agree with of it most of it. But I don't have a regret in reaching out to her on this one - I may have had a regret if I hadn't done it. So I'm good with that.

Steve - The website was down, at least on my end, for a couple of days - else I probably would have floated it here.

And yes, I see congruence - That's what's great. Its my inner world. She left me, I began to try to figure things out. I went out with some women and got a sense of what was out there. I realized I was going to be okay and that gave me a lot of confidence. I then began to realize that I can be pretty happy without a woman in my life, so I slowed the dating scene down and I'm losing interest. Maybe I'll change my mind again too. What awesome is I get to make those decisions for myself. It doesn't really matter what anyone else thinks. So that's pretty cool. And I figured some things out. That's really valuable for me.

LH - That is really interesting, the difference between Love and Attachment. That's probably accurate.

A lot of her feelings, whether good or bad, are temporary. She might dangle the carrot of reconciliation one day and then reel it right back in the next. You want to avoid pinning your own feelings on her swings.

AS � I completely agree. I was fully ready for a complete rejection and I wasn�t worried about it. Also, if she said she wanted to reconcile I would have needed to step back and really talk about what that meant. I did not feel like I was on her roller coaster, I felt in control of my emotions but also able to listen to her. And I wasn't trying to not feel anything, I was open to feelings and paying attention to them.

If she really does get to the point of wanting to reconcile, you won't have to read the tea leaves to figure it out. She'll tell you in no uncertain terms. .

Agreed. I have a feeling it could happen once I am completely closed down to the idea. I know that I�m healing, at my speed. I do wish she would come around sooner than later o

After the conversation with her and that I heard some pause in her voice, for the first time I could feel myself be unsure � Would I really want that life back? Or to have to do what it would take to make it work? I could feel that I wasn't so sure.

And being aware of how I feel is very new to me. I didn't start exploring feelings until about the last year because of counseling. The difference between logic and my feelings is something I continue to explore.

Glad it helped. A lot of 2x4's get doled out on these forums, sometimes it's easy to forget that most of the people here are hurting and trying to work their way through this very difficult time, and need hope as much as or more than correction. And there is every reason to hope, people who have mastered DBing went on to better things whether they reconciled or not. No matter how much you are hurting now I completely and fully believe a year or two from now you will be a BETTER, HAPPIER person! It WILL happen, I can't guarantee you will reconcile but I can guarantee you will be in a much better place!

Well said. Thanks.

R2C � Great question. Last week I had a good day. I went to church, then went to brunch and took a book. I was there for two hours. After that I went home and jumped on my bike and went on a 33 mile bike ride. That felt good. Then I made myself dinner and watched a TV show. It was a good day.

I need to get myself a kayak to be able to take some other adventures on my own. This is a space I�m still working to play in - fun alone. On the weeknights I work out after work, and make dinner and then either read or watch TV. I find reading makes me feel better than TV, but both can be relaxing � but that doesn't generate �happiness�.

I�ll be thinking more about this.

[SteveLW]

I wholeheartedly disagree with you on the dating. The fact that you had to do that to know you'd be okay means I still wonder if those old "I have to have a woman" tendencies you admitted to a while back are still underlying. Sounds like a good thing to continue to explore in IC.

So how about an update on how mediation went? It sounds like the D is still on?

[MLCxH]

I wholeheartedly disagree with you on the dating. The fact that you had to do that to know you'd be okay means I still wonder if those old "I have to have a woman" tendencies you admitted to a while back are still underlying

The "I have to have a woman" tendencies is driven by a million years of evolution of man. If humans did not have these tendencies, our species would be extinct Jokes aside, I understand what you are trying to convey but if Scott's realization about how dating made him feel he does not need a woman to make him happy sticks, it should hopefully not be relevant moving forward.

And then to hear how poorly she is doing made you feel better? Yeah.......I think that is your answer right there.

To add to this Scotty B I listen to a pod cast this weekend about the Buddhist interpretation of Love. If you truly loved your W you would never feel this way.

Are we still pretending that 'true unattached love' is a real thing?

[LH19]

Are we still pretending that 'true unattached love' is a real thing?

I think it's a real thing just not to anyone on these boards.

[SteveLW]

I wholeheartedly disagree with you on the dating. The fact that you
The "I have to have a woman" tendencies is driven by a million years of evolution of man. If humans did not have these tendencies, our species would be extinct Jokes aside, I understand what you are trying to convey but if Scott's realization about how dating made him feel he does not need a woman to make him happy sticks, it should hopefully not be relevant moving forward.

MLC, I will probably ignore disagreements in the future because I do not think LBSs get much out of other posters arguing on their threads. But since I got called out specifically:

You may have missed it a few months back when Scott said he had a weakness when it came to women. As in always having to have one. His point was that his weakness in this regard was more than the usual "man needs woman" "evolution" thing you mentioned. That is what I was referring to. And no one ever said he should never date again. Just that he shouldn't be dating when he isn't ready to be D'd, as evidenced by telling his STBXW that he still doesn't want a D.

And then to hear how poorly she is doing made you feel better? Yeah.......I think that is your answer right there.

To add to this Scotty B I listen to a pod cast this weekend about the Buddhist interpretation of Love. If you truly loved your W you would never feel this way.

Are we still pretending that 'true unattached love' is a real thing?

I am not pretending anything. We aren't cattle. We can love someone and not be so attached to them that we want to stop breathing if they leave us (read the "You will not die" sticky thread!) As far as the word "true", that is an overloaded term that means different things to different people.

But for anyone else reading this, the state of attachment is not binary. There is no absolute on or off when it comes to attachment. Codependence, over-attachment, thinking you cannot possible live a moment without our your spouse is NOT healthy. You can be properly attached somewhere in the middle without being completely attached or completely detached.

P.S. Did you come in to give Scott advice? Or just to argue?

[Ready2Change]

Scott,

Back when I first started posting, there was a lot of support from "newbie to newbie". I think that was extremely helpful.

I noticed that you only post to your thread. Same thing with Smilie, Most of his posts are on his thread. I might suggest that you read his threads ,if you haven't already, and offer some support. He will most likely reciprocate.

It is definitely a worthwhile endeavor. You get to think about things and use logic to address the other persons sitch. Your emotions are not controlling your response and when similar things come up in your own life, you already know a good choice to help make your decision easier.