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Michka Offline OP
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Just a vent, hope everyone is well.

So he did it again, he wants to reconcile.

WITH AN ADDED TWIST!

So he has been spewing the last week, and i have been trying my hardest to detach, albeit lovingly. Working on listening and validating.

Examples like...

H: I really cant see us getting back together, it's gone too far.

M: Thank you for sharing your feelings with me


OR

H: Hopefully one day we can work it out, for now you win. (a TM he sent after he was visiting the kids and decided he didn't like my response to a question...)

M: Sounds like things are challenging for you right now and I am sorry you feel that way.

H: Don t feel sorry for me! I feel sorry for you!

M: "No response"

Anyway, he wanted to "chat" today. About everything and nothing and fired a million questions at me, again I was listening/validating but avoiding answering directly any questions about divorce and what I wanted in terms of finances.

He became angry and I stood up and walked away... he asked where I was going and I replied he speaks to me calmly with respect or he dosen't speak to me. He calmed down and asked if I would continue chatting. I told him he knew the score and he agreed to being calm.

He then started crying, but blaming me for his woes and feelings.

I validated him and not sure if this was right or wrong - hugged him.

He then started talking to me about how I can be so sure about what I want (ie reconciling) when so much has happened.

I replied that it was simply how I felt/what I wanted. But I would fine with whatever happened because I can handle it. I will make the most of whatever comes my way.

He then starting turning towards me, telling me he loves me but is so hurt by everything.

We had a little chat, essentially I told him his actions have consequences good or bad. I didn't break him and I cant fix him, also if really loves me - its all of me, the bits he likes and the bits he dosen't. Not just until he decides he cant do it.

He spoke of loving me but i replied that i wanted commitment right now. Commitment to the process of reconciling, which included IC and MC and.... (this was new information I learnt last week) the married woman he was speaking to and had "feelings" for being cut out of his life.

And thats where he stopped, claimed she was a great support to him during a tough time, he was reluctant to cut her out, especially if things didn't work out between us because he was scared he would become suicidal again and she was the only one who could help him.

This was really hard for me. He understood my position but wished I understood his. I was clear and calm, she goes, there is NC, full transperency, committed to IC/MC or its not going to happen.

He agreed to it, but appeared to be really torn? hurt? confused? with cutting her off.

Now this is what I am worried about it.

What happens from here? I understand moving slowly, I understanding taking it easy, I understand he is not going to come around after one discussion to become the poster child of husbands. But how do I navigate these next steps without it blowing up in my face?

I am fully aware it can, almost even expecting it to or perhaps a better way to phrase it not caring if it does.

I guess it's all about his actions. Im concerned that this dance of back and forth keeps happening but I can see how I contributed to it by moving too quickly.

I for one, will be continuing my one week of 180's/GAL/validating and listening. If I can get to two, I will be a happy lass.

I also have a bunch of furniture that arrived which needs to be set up and a kitchen to paint.

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Hi M,

Quote
What happens from here? I understand moving slowly, I understanding taking it easy, I understand he is not going to come around after one discussion to become the poster child of husbands. But how do I navigate these next steps without it blowing up in my face?

I am fully aware it can, almost even expecting it to or perhaps a better way to phrase it not caring if it does.


This is great-- if you truly do feel this way, not really caring that much one way or another if it blows up again-- it sounds like you're moving forward in detaching.

DO NOT STOP DB-ing. Just keep it up. It is very likely that this back and forth will continue and you just have to not contribute to it by staying the course, focusing on yourself, GAL, avoiding R talks, etc. I am going to guess that he will probably *not* cut off the OW, based on what you shared of the conversation. I wouldn't demand proof or anything, or even bring it up again. if he says again he wants to R, then great-- repeat yourself, you need to recommit to the M which includes IC, MC, and NC with the OW. He's a big boy. If he wants to do these things, he will take obvious steps towards doing so and want to prove it to you that he's done with OW. If he waffles, you have your timeline where you're outta there by January.

It sounded like he has a lot of issues that he'll need to really commit himself to working on for him to be the kind of H you want, right? Are you still doing all the laundry and kid chores? (Ha, to me that would be another requirement of reconciliation-- an equal partner in the house!)

Hang in there,

May


Me (46) H (42)
M:14 T:18, D9 & D11
4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs
9/20 - present: R and piecing
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Michka Offline OP
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Hi May

Thanks for replying. Im interested in why you think I should'nt bring her up again? How do you see that being beneficial?
Just curious.

Yes he does have alot of issues which is what I believe led to this how seperation and the issues we had previously. This was a point I drove when we had a talk. He needs to find that peace/happiness whatever you call it.

Even at a basic level, his physical health is concerning. He really struggles with his sleep and pre BD he was lucky if he got 4 hours sleep a night. From what he says it's not any better at the moment. I think it contributed to this seperation because how can you be a happy man if you are constantly sleep deprived? Its just one example.

He is here tonight bathing the kids. Its a little different, he seems like he cant get enough of me which is different to other times, I think the pursuit/distance dance is very much the type of relationship games we have been playing. Which I think works perfectly in my favour right now because it supports the potential reunification as well as assisting me in detaching.

But I will be taking the stockdale approach here, one day at a time. Grateful for each day I get, not expecting anything from tomorrow.

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Originally Posted by Michka
Just a vent, hope everyone is well.

So he did it again, he wants to reconcile.

WITH AN ADDED TWIST!

So he has been spewing the last week, and i have been trying my hardest to detach, albeit lovingly. Working on listening and validating.

Examples like...

H: I really cant see us getting back together, it's gone too far.

M: Thank you for sharing your feelings with me


OR

H: Hopefully one day we can work it out, for now you win. (a TM he sent after he was visiting the kids and decided he didn't like my response to a question...)

M: Sounds like things are challenging for you right now and I am sorry you feel that way.

H: Don t feel sorry for me! I feel sorry for you!

M: "No response"

Anyway, he wanted to "chat" today. About everything and nothing and fired a million questions at me, again I was listening/validating but avoiding answering directly any questions about divorce and what I wanted in terms of finances.

He became angry and I stood up and walked away... he asked where I was going and I replied he speaks to me calmly with respect or he dosen't speak to me. He calmed down and asked if I would continue chatting. I told him he knew the score and he agreed to being calm.

He then started crying, but blaming me for his woes and feelings.

I validated him and not sure if this was right or wrong - hugged him.

He then started talking to me about how I can be so sure about what I want (ie reconciling) when so much has happened.

I replied that it was simply how I felt/what I wanted. But I would fine with whatever happened because I can handle it. I will make the most of whatever comes my way.

He then starting turning towards me, telling me he loves me but is so hurt by everything.

We had a little chat, essentially I told him his actions have consequences good or bad. I didn't break him and I cant fix him, also if really loves me - its all of me, the bits he likes and the bits he dosen't. Not just until he decides he cant do it.

He spoke of loving me but i replied that i wanted commitment right now. Commitment to the process of reconciling, which included IC and MC and.... (this was new information I learnt last week) the married woman he was speaking to and had "feelings" for being cut out of his life.

And thats where he stopped, claimed she was a great support to him during a tough time, he was reluctant to cut her out, especially if things didn't work out between us because he was scared he would become suicidal again and she was the only one who could help him.

This was really hard for me. He understood my position but wished I understood his. I was clear and calm, she goes, there is NC, full transperency, committed to IC/MC or its not going to happen.

He agreed to it, but appeared to be really torn? hurt? confused? with cutting her off.

Now this is what I am worried about it.

What happens from here? I understand moving slowly, I understanding taking it easy, I understand he is not going to come around after one discussion to become the poster child of husbands. But how do I navigate these next steps without it blowing up in my face?

I am fully aware it can, almost even expecting it to or perhaps a better way to phrase it not caring if it does.

I guess it's all about his actions. Im concerned that this dance of back and forth keeps happening but I can see how I contributed to it by moving too quickly.

I for one, will be continuing my one week of 180's/GAL/validating and listening. If I can get to two, I will be a happy lass.

I also have a bunch of furniture that arrived which needs to be set up and a kitchen to paint.


First, Michka, please proceed with caution. There are lots of reasons why WASs lie about Ring. Most of the time it is because Plan A, OP, isn't solid yet. We used to have a saying around here: A monkey doesn't jump from the branch it is on until it identifies another branch that can support it. Lots of posters here have had false starts with R, and most of the time it is because they stop DBing once their LBS expresses interest in R.

Likely the loss of control over you is what is bringing this on. In my own sitch when I started DBing well, my W felt like she was losing me and suddenly started behaving like she wanted to be my W again. However, if I asked her directly, she'd always fall back to she wanted a D.

I am glad to hear you sticking to your requirements: "she goes, there is NC, full transperency, committed to IC/MC or its not going to happen. "

Do not back off of that. It will make you look weak and it will tell him that R to you is paramount to anything else he does. This will work against you. He is talking R because now he feels like you are moving forward without him. The minute you make him feel like you will R at all costs again, he will go back to where he was at before.

What happens here? You keep DBing! If he truly wants to R he will move mountains to do so, there will be no question. We have a saying around here: When they want to R you will know, when they don't you will be confused.

So how you navigate is to just keep on DBing. Don't stop what got you here. So many LBSs here "I want to R" and go all hog back into what they were doing before DBing. DBing got you here, DBing will be the thing that most likely will keep you where you are now.

I do have to say, it is a huge red flag that he brought up the OW and not wanting to remove her from his life. The fact that he even said that to you shows to me a lack of respect for you, and it may...MAY indicate that he is just buying time.

In short, continue DBing, and adhering to good DB principles: Do not start R talks. Keep GAL. Keep working on your own improvements, learn how to be properly and lovingly detached. Focus off of him and onto you. Sandi's rules. Etc.

WASs are like a cat. If you sit still and quiet and ignore them, they may come and jump up in your lap. The minute you get over exuberant, excited and reach out to them they will run the other way.


M(53), W(54),D(19)
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Michka Offline OP
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SteveLW I like the cat analogy. smile

Yes his reaction to the OW was a huge red flag. I will be watching that closely.

I don't like the Plan A... B C...etc. I should be the only plan or no plan at all. I say that because I feel you are either fully committed or your not. So I will stand back and stand strong while we navigate these new waters we find ourselves in, until I see the actions match the words and promises he gave.

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Originally Posted by Michka
SteveLW I like the cat analogy. smile

Yes his reaction to the OW was a huge red flag. I will be watching that closely.

I don't like the Plan A... B C...etc. I should be the only plan or no plan at all. I say that because I feel you are either fully committed or your not. So I will stand back and stand strong while we navigate these new waters we find ourselves in, until I see the actions match the words and promises he gave.


I agree with you on being the only plan. That attitude will serve you well. We often are asked "when will I know they are truly fully committed back to the MR." The answer is: When their actions are consistent over a long period of time. Think 6 months+.


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Quote
Thanks for replying. Im interested in why you think I should'nt bring her up again? How do you see that being beneficial?
Just curious.

Because it won't do any good. Asking if he's cut off contact yet just comes across as pursuit. And BTW, it needs to be 100% NC, he has a clear conversation with her that he is working on his marriage and will not be talking to her ever again, blocks all forms of contact and has a plan with you for what will happen if she reaches out to him (said plan should be-- I will let you know immediately and will not respond).

He's either going to ditch her (in which case he'll want to tell you about it) or he won't and you'll know because you won't hear anything from him about it. His behavior is all outside of your control. If he brings up again that he wants to R, then you can inquire about how he's coming along cutting off all contact with AP and how he's going to demonstrate that to you in a way you will believe. Otherwise, just assume he's still talking to her and behave accordingly.


Me (46) H (42)
M:14 T:18, D9 & D11
4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs
9/20 - present: R and piecing
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Michka Offline OP
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May,

Good plan, I will follow that through and see how it goes.

Hope all is well in your world.

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Michka Offline OP
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So it took about three days before he decided it was a mistake "trying to get close to me again".

It was to do with his lack of effort with the kids presently. He visits daily or so but has nothing to do with actual parenting.

So i asked him to organise some type of routine, we are in lockdown currently and I cannot access my usual support. I wanted him to take the kids for a few hours in the evening each second day so I can get ahead on my work. That blew up. Absolutely refused since he has a "business to run". He cannot possibly take the kids and organise dinner etc.

So i said thank you and goodbye.


I feel like he is part way between a Mexican Standoff and pretending it's all ok. I am just detaching as much as possible. It's been hard to GAL when there isn't much we can do, but I have organised my new furniture that came, created a study nook so the kids and I can do our work together and currently looking at some time of exercise program that I can do with the kids. Lockdown has not helped the waistlines.

My two biggest issues are the kids and boundaries.

1. Kids

Very receptive to his moods, lockdown and just everything else currently happening. My S6 keeps telling me he is unhappy but dosent know why. My S8 has regressed with his sleeping and schoolwork. Constantly needs me for everything. The S2 is just attached to me as per usual. But I am really worried about the older two.

I dont know if its just because of everything that is happening and it will pass with time or should I be organising counselling for them?

2. Boundaries.

It seems to be the same as before, the more I distance or detach the more he is obnoxious or just negatively seeking my attention. It's generally little things and comments. Like... you spent a lot of money on groceries.... or why so much food for (S8 birthday lunch) lunch? no one wants it (there was single plate of leftovers). Currently, my tactic is I smile and reply innocently...I am not sure what you mean?

Should I be saying something or keep my current strategy?

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1. You cannot control his actions. Unfortunately, it impacts the kids. Many here that have been through a D with kids have put their kids into IC. So yes, I would suggest looking into that.

2. Do not allow him to be disrespectful. "You spend a lot of money on groceries." "I will not tolerate being spoken to in this manner." Then end the phonecall, text exchange, or walk away (if in person). He needs to see that you are standing up for yourself.

Last edited by SteveLW; 07/29/21 06:45 PM.

M(53), W(54),D(19)
M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
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