God. So many similarities. My H is not as extreme but many similarities.
Originally Posted by wayfarer
He sukks all the oxygen out of a room and it's too much. I can't focus. I can't be productive. And I can't ignore it forever. He then goes into a litany of reasons why he was like that, mostly because of me and D18 and D17 who wasn't even there. Which I said he sounds crazy because D17 wasn't involved. He started saying he gets like that because none of us have a sense of urgency.
So.... this is basically what we spent most of our MC session yesterday, and I don't think we got all that far. Your H, like mine, is blaming his actions and inability to control his temper or behaviors on you and the girls. And that is total BS. Our situation was that my H got mad at D11 for getting into the (new) Tesla covered in clay and slammed the car door so hard it broke and was stuck closed. He was furious with himself and her. He texted me to tell me about it and my 180 was... I let it go. I said nothing except that svcks. Because it did and he was clearly beating himself up about it. That evening we had a family discussion about it and H apologized to D11. He said he overreacted and shouldn't have slammed the door that hard. All good. Then he said... but it wouldn't have happened if you hadn't gotten into the car so dirty. I stopped him and said NO. This is not her fault. She bears zero responsibility for this. This is on YOU. Yes, she shouldn't have gotten into the car so dirty but that is a separate issue that we'll deal with that with her.
Anyway, the reason this really bothered me is that it feels in the same category as the A. He takes responsibility for his actions BUT also maintains that it wouldn't have happened if we didn't have problems in our M beforehand. Agreed... but also I feel that is some level of blameshifting ("It wouldn't have happened if we were blissfully happy") and he still needs to 100% own that his actions were wrong and not excusable, no matter what the state of our M beforehand. And, that the state of our M before the A was not just my fault b/c of the SSM but we both contributed to the dynamics that led to the SSM as well as the breakdown in connection between us. No matter how angry or sad or whatever he was, he still made the choice to have an affair and he still made the choice to slam the door. That is on him, no one else.
And even outside of the A, in our day to day lives-- this kind of BS is simply not okay. You can't blow up or be an @ss and then pretend it is because it is just in response to other people around you. Take some responsibility for yourself! And the other thing my H doesn't understand is when he gets angry, it does exactly the same thing that you say about your H-- it pulls all the O2 out of the room and the focus becomes 100% on H's anger and behavior, not on whatever had happened before that (kid being messy or whatever). He thinks this is just how he is, he tends to yell/blow up quickly and then apologizes and is done. Whereas I feel like he needs to learn to control himself more and the damage done to the people around him with the explosion, short as it may be, is not glossed over with an apology later.
Sorry for blathering on, but I feel like there are a lot of parallels here. All down to the fact that as you say, yes, M is hard even without the A in your history. I do feel like because of what we've been through in my M at least, we can address this kind of thing better than we could have before. I would have either blown back up at him or ignored it completely rather than call him out on it. I'm not okay with tolerating this $hit anymore because if we went through what we went through I want a GD amazing M on the other side and it does not include tolerating temper tantrums from my H.
Some of this is on me and our interactions, and I know I can contribute or deescalate depending on how I respond. Sounds like you do too and you've mostly focused on deescalating and avoiding situations where your H can be a duck. But I also truly think this is work that your H (and mine) need to do for themselves and the relationship. It isn't enough for our Hs to end their As and come back to the M. They need to look hard at their behaviors and patterns that contributed to the difficulties in your M to begin with, and make those hard changes themselves in support of the M.
Originally Posted by wayfarer
I do feel like he's all in. Even when we're fighting. I don't have that terrified feeling any more. I think it's helping me find my voice with him.
This is great. You got this, WF. I guess my main advice to you is you keep speaking up, to stop doing all the emotional labor for the entire family, get into MC so that there is a third trained party helping him to see that he may need to make some changes too for the good of the relationship, that Ms are hard work and he needs to own his behaviors, stop blaming others, and also understand the impact that his behaviors have on other people. You've been so good at focusing on yourself, your 180s, your own struggle with depression and growth and forgiveness. But for an R to work, he ALSO has to do all the hard work not just to repair the rift between you caused by the A, but to be a better partner and H in the future. (I think so at least.)
xx M
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
At the end of the day you're still 2 totally different people with totally different world views and FOOs. Marriage is hard work...
OMG yes. One of my issues during my marriage was conflict resolution. None of our issues were ever resolved. I was a confronter, she avoided. We never discussed/resolved any issues.
Now, when either my lady or I get into an argument and our emotions start to get out of control, we take a break and talk it out after we have cooled off. Do you and your H have a calm, safe way to come to agreements on issues like the house cleaning?
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
At the end of the day you're still 2 totally different people with totally different world views and FOOs. Marriage is hard work...
OMG yes. One of my issues during my marriage was conflict resolution. None of our issues were ever resolved. I was a confronter, she avoided. We never discussed/resolved any issues.
Now, when either my lady or I get into an argument and our emotions start to get out of control, we take a break and talk it out after we have cooled off. Do you and your H have a calm, safe way to come to agreements on issues like the house cleaning?
My W and I just had conversation about how bad at conflict resolution we were. During 2 years of dating, and 15+ years of our marriage we would both freeze the other out. We never resolved conflict it just faded away, and never all the way away. I was more of a confronter than she was, but once I got push back then I would just internalize it, go cold and distant and stay that way for a period of time. She did the same except she NEVER confronted.
Our dynamic now is very similar to yours. We realize we are starting to get emotional, we calm down and discuss the issue. One of the other things people are so horrible at these days in all relationships and walks of life, is that it okay to disagree! Agreeing to disagree would go a long way in this world. My W and I now know that we can at least understand the other person's viewpoint even if we do not agree with it.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
At the end of the day you're still 2 totally different people with totally different world views and FOOs. Marriage is hard work...
OMG yes. One of my issues during my marriage was conflict resolution. None of our issues were ever resolved. I was a confronter, she avoided. We never discussed/resolved any issues.
Now, when either my lady or I get into an argument and our emotions start to get out of control, we take a break and talk it out after we have cooled off. Do you and your H have a calm, safe way to come to agreements on issues like the house cleaning?
My W and I just had conversation about how bad at conflict resolution we were. During 2 years of dating, and 15+ years of our marriage we would both freeze the other out. We never resolved conflict it just faded away, and never all the way away. I was more of a confronter than she was, but once I got push back then I would just internalize it, go cold and distant and stay that way for a period of time. She did the same except she NEVER confronted.
Our dynamic now is very similar to yours. We realize we are starting to get emotional, we calm down and discuss the issue. One of the other things people are so horrible at these days in all relationships and walks of life, is that it okay to disagree! Agreeing to disagree would go a long way in this world. My W and I now know that we can at least understand the other person's viewpoint even if we do not agree with it.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Oh wow, I knew I ducked out for a while but I guess I hadn't realized how long of a while it had been.
The girls are both in college now. StepD 19 after moving out for a little bit in 2021 moved in with us full time after her 18th bday, and she's doing so, so well in college. I can't explain how happy we are. D 20 changed her major twice but we've settled in. They are both at home and commuting to school. D20 says it's the best of both worlds. I don't hound her about curfew and she still gets to eat my cooking and sleep in her queen sized bed.
H and I are doing really, really well. We've gotten better at fighting. Still not where I'd like us to be but it's always improving so I can't complain. He got snipped in Nov so babies are totally off the table now. Which I was ready for. It was a long discussion, and several smaller one and I'm just happy to be in this part of our life and not starting over. Best part is his drive is finally on par with mine now, and with kids barely in the house it's been great.
I have a friend I've sent this way. He and his W are in it right now. Really in it. She is one of my best friends and walked with me through this process so it was super disheartening that this has happened. I've sent him this way so he can have the kind of support I had. I know I can't offer him all the support he needs. Especially since this stuff is still kind of fresh. The wounds are healed but definitely still pink and puffy. They aren't long ago born battle scars yet. While it does bring up some things for me it's also brought up a lot of good convos for H and I. He's really said somethings that show me how far he's come since then. How just genuinely remorseful his was and is. How clearly he can see how off the rails he was then. He looked at me and said there are two reasons we are where we are now lockdown and you're refusal to give up. We wouldn't be where we are if you had given up and me and us. And it put me in tears. A year out that conversation felt like lip service or an all of a sudden realization. Now the way he says it you can feel the earnestness in his words.
I know the path I took to get us where we are today isn't for the faint of heart. And I had to endure a lot of people calling me a doormat and pathetic to stand for my marriage. I had to endure a lot living with him through all of that. I'll never be one of those people who says I'm glad we went through that to get here. No one should have to go through that to have the kind of MR I have now, but I am glad that we were able to make this fantastic lemonade out of all those lemons and my H is giving me the credit for making it so sweet.
I was so happy to see your update when I checked in! I am not on here much anymore as many of those that supported me in my journey are absent. Anyway, I’m happy I spotted your update.
I am so happy to hear that your relationship and your family are doing so well! Your story was such an inspiration to me. Your struggles and your support really helped me in my journey. It’s so great to have read your story from beginning to end and to see that things are so good for you now! And yeah, your role played a big part in why you guys stayed together, and it’s great that he sees that and appreciates it. It certainly wasn’t easy, and I know you probably never expected to be validated for it…which makes it all the more special. Sending you lots of love and hope that your love continues to grow and blossom and that those soft pink wounds turn into old battle scars.
XO Elbereth
Me 52, H 56 T10 M7, 2nd MR for both 2 Step Sons (19 and 21) BD: Fall 2020 D finalized: July 2022 XH Married AP soon after D day.
I echo what Elbereth said. Really, really happy for you Wayfarer. A great testament to the power of commitment and forgiveness. You deserve every happiness. Big (((HUGS))).
Hi Wayfarer, Thanks for the update. Very happy for you. It would be great if whenever you find the time, write up some insights into the piecing journey: false starts, what works, what does not work, sacrifices, compromises, what to watch out for and why etc. Would be invaluable resource.
