CWarrior, I am feeling better and more confident in all this today. I have faith and i have been praying alot as well for guidance.
Update: I know so many believe i should just move on from my H but theres so much more in our relationship that can be explained. So much good and other things that have happened that its hard to explain it all. My H told me he isnt sleeping with anyone else and that he is talking to a woman but only as a friend for the time being. We are separated and as the book says I am not going to focus on the OW at all if thats what it is. And yes i do believe my H completely on the subject, when he cheated last time i knew it in my guy, my gut has never once been wrong and my gut is telling me to trust him. As Michele wrote in Divorce Remedy, "Trust you instincts. Dont let anyone else tell you what to do. If your not ready to give up on your marriage, Keep Fighting." So thats what im going to do. I do know my husband and we are still best friends. I officially am not sleeping in bed with him anymore or having sex, since we have yet to discuss why the divorce is happening we have decided to do out to eat or possibly take a hike to discuss it some, hiking has always been our thing. I know discussing the relationship is suppose to not happen, but this is new and at the very least we need to discuss why he feels he wants this right now and to set clear boundaries for the time being since we will be living together still for now. I am going to refrain from any pleading or reasoning with him during the convo and try to keep it mainly about the boundaries being set, i will to the best of my ability make it clear i am open to working on our marriage and leave it at that.
For now I am trying to just be his friend, and think of him that way, last night he told me I am his very best friend and he doesn't want to lose that, and that he loves me very much. Yesterday I was in the town where he works as a cop as I had errands, etc. I had to do. And he came and found me 3 times just to talk, we didn't discuss the relationship at all, just discussed work and all kinds of different topics just like good friends would. I never sought him out, he always sought me out.
Since we are going to talk technically about the relationship some due to setting boundaries and discussing steps, though again I want to make it clear Im going to try to not talk to deeply about the relationship as is suggested in the book. Does anyone have any advice on things to discuss or how to discuss certain topics, anything at all?
CWarrior, I am feeling better and more confident in all this today. I have faith and i have been praying alot as well for guidance.
Update: I know so many believe i should just move on from my H but theres so much more in our relationship that can be explained. So much good and other things that have happened that its hard to explain it all. My H told me he isnt sleeping with anyone else and that he is talking to a woman but only as a friend for the time being. We are separated and as the book says I am not going to focus on the OW at all if thats what it is. And yes i do believe my H completely on the subject, when he cheated last time i knew it in my guy, my gut has never once been wrong and my gut is telling me to trust him. As Michele wrote in Divorce Remedy, "Trust you instincts. Dont let anyone else tell you what to do. If your not ready to give up on your marriage, Keep Fighting." So thats what im going to do. I do know my husband and we are still best friends. I officially am not sleeping in bed with him anymore or having sex, since we have yet to discuss why the divorce is happening we have decided to do out to eat or possibly take a hike to discuss it some, hiking has always been our thing. I know discussing the relationship is suppose to not happen, but this is new and at the very least we need to discuss why he feels he wants this right now and to set clear boundaries for the time being since we will be living together still for now. I am going to refrain from any pleading or reasoning with him during the convo and try to keep it mainly about the boundaries being set, i will to the best of my ability make it clear i am open to working on our marriage and leave it at that.
For now I am trying to just be his friend, and think of him that way, last night he told me I am his very best friend and he doesn't want to lose that, and that he loves me very much. Yesterday I was in the town where he works as a cop as I had errands, etc. I had to do. And he came and found me 3 times just to talk, we didn't discuss the relationship at all, just discussed work and all kinds of different topics just like good friends would. I never sought him out, he always sought me out.
Since we are going to talk technically about the relationship some due to setting boundaries and discussing steps, though again I want to make it clear Im going to try to not talk to deeply about the relationship as is suggested in the book. Does anyone have any advice on things to discuss or how to discuss certain topics, anything at all?
Here's the deal. My H was having an active affair while living in our home. And telling me every day how much he wanted to leave me and how miserable he was. I stood for my MR. I am the last person who would say this marriage is unsalvagable run for the hills. I'm just telling you what my gut says based on the information. But you want this. And you want to stand so stand. My questions to you weren't posed as saying you need to go. My questions were posed because you truly need to be able to articulate why you want to keep this together 1) so we complete strangers on the internet can understand you and what's going on better 2) because if you can't articulate why you want this so badly other than love or fear there very likely isn't anything in this marriage to save 3) entering IC and/or MC you're going to need to know this, and be able to articulate it.
You keep on keeping on. You stand as long as you want to stand. You from here on out will have to do what's best for you in the timeline that's best for you. However please seriously give some thoughts to my questions.
~ Why do you want to keep this marriage together? What are the reasons besides you loving him that makes you feel it's important and necessary to save this marriage?
~ Why does this man deserve your love? What is that he is/has/does that can make you say I could forgive him if he asked me to and put in the work to keep this relationship going?
If you're going to fight for the MR you need to know the reasons and so do we.
As far as relationship talks, it's advised against because 9 times out of 10 the LBS will not come out emotionally ok on the other side. Yes boundaries need to be set while you are both living in the home. But he's "just friends" with a woman he's chatting with that you have no proof of either way. You don't know her. And my guess is that he barely knows her as well. Unless that woman is his friend from childhood and she's been around your entire relationship and supportive of both of you he has no reason to have her as a friend. He has a lot of reasons to keep you and "friend" waiting in the wings for him though. You give him absolutely everything and he gives you at best tepid friendly interactions that seem to stem out of fear he'll be alone more than actual fear of losing you. So as of right now there are no boundaries. He's allowed to do as he pleases while you stay physically, mentally and emotionally attached to him.
~What's your plan for boundaries given the situation? ~What topics are you planning on covering in this R talk?
I'm not trying to be harsh at all or hurt your feelings. But the fact that you're not at least a little angry or suspicious of H really worries me. I just don't understand why he gets to make selfish decision after selfish decision and you can't do one thing just for you, for your peace of mind, for your emotional well being like telling him he can't "talk" to other women if he plans on sleeping next to you every night. Just with an EA I was ready to smash my H's headlights in. Granted I hit anger way before sadness. He's hurt you multiple times don't you think you deserve to make the rules and run the show here?
Okay so I am going to do my best (also for the record when I said what I said about others wanting me to walk away it was more my friends who are bias in a sense) I honestly hadn't had time to truly consider your questions so let me give this more of a shot.
Reasons for wanting to save my marriage, obviously Loving him is a part of it, Him being my Number 1 best friend is a large part of it too. We have been through alot together and he has supported me through some very difficult things and vice versa. For one I truly believe in my gut that this isn't really what he wants, I believe he is afraid of being in an unhappy marriage for years and years like his mother was, so he feels unhappy right now and being a pessimist he has issues seeing things getting better. Sorry im ranting a bit here. One reason I want to stay together is my 7 year old, no he is not his, but he has been an exceptional father figure to him, he plays with him, teaches him, wants the best for him. They have a good strong bond. We truly understand eachother, we are 2 very different people in alot of ways, we do have a lot in common as well, but our differences have caused us both to think things differently and try new things, and we have both grown so much together due to this. We both believe we are better people because of eachother. There are things ive been doing such as cheeseless tunnels and privacy boundaries things that I have done to push him away in our relationship that I have recently come to realize, he has been very patient, and reassuring and kind to me, and i believe at times i took advantage of that and I am changing these things for me, whether we stay together or not.
My H is a good person, he has problems I wont pretend he doesn't. But he has supported me, and has had a rougher family like then most and was taught toxic behaviors from his parents which I have seen him learn and grow away from tremendously over the years we have been together. It's hard to truly explain these things but we have truly helped each other to grow for the better and I believe we can still do this. I believe we can come out of this hard time and be stronger for it. And Honestly I already have forgiven him, completely, mostly for myself, but also because I understand so many dynamics of things that have caused him to be in the "grass is greener" mentality.
And as for the OW situation, I believe him because I am trusting my gut, and I can't really describe it more then that, I just know it to be true, also in DR when Michele discusses Infidelity and when the spouse wont give up OW and wants divorce, its said to pretty much forget the OW because it wont help my marriage. I have read stories of women who's husband left them for OW and they DB'D and ended up saving their marriage, I have faith because of these stories and because of the years of experience and the faith I have in my relationship. I am not saying part of me hasn't been angry at my H or that it hasn't been incredibly painful. But I don't believe infidelity has to be the death of my marriage, I believe we can get through this and have a very happy Marriage, and sometimes there aren't words to explain why that is, its simply my gut and my faith.
As of now I have already stopped sleeping in bed with him and having sex with him. Also to be noted, my husband had tried to stop us from sleeping together but because of my fear or losing him and wanting to feel close I did push my way into us still sleeping together and sex originally so he is not as manipulating as some might think. But after reading more and taking time to truly think of things I know now what i was doing was wrong and I am backing off. I told him that unless he stops talking to other women and decides to work on our marriage I will no longer be sleeping in bed with him or having sex, I saw the hurt in his eyes and he said he understands. So I am starting to set boundaries.
I am currently reading up on boundaries especially for my specific situation. I know I have to back off and not give certain things to him. In DR it also says I should be positive whenever I am around my H. One story in the book says a W became such good Friends with her husband that he had ever talked to her about the OW and eventually they got back together and their marriage has been great ever since. So this is currently my focus, is being his friend. I understand your confusion in my decision, my H wants a divorce so I really don't have much of a say in any of this right now. So like Michele says many different times, in many ways, if you want to save your marriage, you have to get over the "its not fair I have to do all the work right now" and your pride. So that is what I am doing, my H is depressed and scared and yes he's being selfish right now, but our Marriage is bigger then this moment, thats what I believe.
As for the boundaries and R talk, I don't know much. Honestly part of me just wants to know why he even wants the D as we were happy a month ago, I feel most people on here at least got some reason from their Spouse in the beginning, I don't fully know what all the issues are, and I'd like to know to work on them. But if it would be better for me to not ask about why he wants the divorce, then tell me that. I honestly don't know if i should just not know or ask right now, thus why I am writing on here to ask for advice. As I have said I have already set boundaries with the intamcy and sleeping in the same bed, we are currently sleeping in the same house and I am unsure what other boundaries need to be discussed again that is why I am asking for adice.
I personally don't believe infidelity EA or PA means the death of a marriage but your H is very young. You're young too but you're a mom and with that comes some maturity. My concern isn't the grass is greener mentality or the FOO. Every LBS here has had to fight those battles. My concern is that it's almost a knee jerk reaction to cheat when he's unhappy. A marriage can't survive that. You can't live like that long term. I trust you know what you want. And that there is good here. And enough good to want to try to make it work. But strongly suggest reading some threads from beginning to end to see what this process of standing looks like. Especially with a person who struggles so deeply with fidelity.
I also need you to understand that while you most certainly could've handle things better in your relationship. That you've brought in bad habits and trauma responses. All of the things we need to own. His repeated infidelity means you are allowed to have enormous trust issues. And that he isn't entitled to privacy. The normal rules of relationships don't apply to serial cheaters. Own what's yours. Don't carry your H's baggage. That's his to handle.
I'm so sorry you find yourself here, I can only imagine how painful your journey has been.
One thing that I wanted to point out to you, when you read about infidelity in DR, I think Michelle is talking more about people who have had one affair and are torn between an affair partner and their spouse.
Your husband is a serial cheater, and it sounds like he likes to have sex with any woman who will have it with him. I don't think he falls into the category that Michelle mentions in her book.
Yes, marriages can survive infidelity. But when you are dealing with someone who displays characteristics such as your husband, I think it's important to be honest with yourself.
I completely understand you want to save this, and that's fine. But at some point, you have to start valuing and respecting yourself.
And for the record, this woman he's communicating with, they're not just friends, this is you in denial. The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck... well you know the rest.
I am posting this as I need advice if you don't believe in DB'ing when someone is being unfaitful as we are separated now then I am asking that you please don't comment and tell me to leave, this is my choice and I am asking for support and not Negativity PLEASE.
My H is currently talking to other women, when our separation first started he slept with one woman, at first he hid it from me but then once it was out in the open he told me he was sorry and I had been right about sex with a random person compared to someone you love is completely different. (My husband has only ever been with me sexually until this) My H told me he wants a divorce after I found out about the other woman. I can tell how guilty he feels for having slept with someone else so he has been pushing me away emotionally for the most part since i found out about 2 week ago. I got Divorce Remedy about a month ago when my husband had first mentioned divorce and I am trying to apply all the advice and techniques. When I first discussed the adultery with my husband I was upset, and yelling, and did not at all handle the situation well, basically I screamed at him and woke him up in the middle of the night. He had to be up in like 4 hours and doesnt handle anything well when hes tired so he basically got in his car that night and went to stay at his moms. We didn't discuss it almost at all that night. I did however ask him if the reason he was sure about divorce (which he had said to me he wanted, period, after I screamed at him) was because he wasn't in love with me anymore or because he doesnt believe I could ever forgive him for sleeping with another woman? He told me "a little of both" in which i replied "So you don't love me anymore?" and he said "of course i love you" and got in his car and left.
Right now I am trying to be my H Friend, he has told me I'm his best friend constantly, almost every day throughout this whole process. So I am trying to think of him only as my best friend, so i can be there for him, and be a positive safe place for him, hoping he will remember why we got married and fell in love in the first place. Some days he's cold and distant, other days he gets ahold of me constantly just to talk.
Example, Yesterday I was running errands and had to waste time in the town my Husband is a police officer in, he knew i was in town and found me over the course of about 3 hours, 3 different times, and stopped and talked to me for at least 30 minutes each time, we didn't discuss our relationship or marriage at all. We just talked about our days and all kinds of things just at Friends would, he called me on his way home from work (which he hasn't been doing for the last 2-3 weeks) and asked if I'd be home as he was going to pick us up Pizza if i was okay with that. We watched tv together at home that evening. Also side note, during this time we have still been in the same bed every night and have even been having sex, I'm a very sexual being and its been a hard process to stop. As of last night in my decision to be his friend I told him that as long as he is talking to other women and 100% sure about divorce (as he's said) I can't be sleeping next to him and having sex with him. I told him I want to work on our marriage but as long as he doesn't and is talking to other women He cant have it all. He was quiet for a minute, i could see the sadness and the hurt in his eyes he then said "I understand, So you know I am not having sex with anyone else, I am talking to other women but only as friends" And yes i 100% believe him, my gut has always been right when it comes to him on lies etc. so I am trusting it now. I told him we need to make time and have a discussion about boundaries and why he wants a divorce. (Now i know we are suppose to avoid discussing the relationship and I am going to try to not go too deep into things BUT since the divorce was mentioned my husband has been working nonstop and we have never discussed why he wants it or boundaries at ALL so i believe we need to at least discuss it once).
Now if anyone has any advice on what should be brought up during this conversation or perhaps ways I should discuss certain topics, I would very much appreciate it Greatly.
Let me ask you, do you really want to be his best friend? Are you OK with being his best friend while he goes around and cheats? And is that how best friends treat best friends?
Artemis, You have 3 different threads going. First you gotta keep it on one thread so all the info is in one place so we can actually get a handle on what is going on here and give you decent advice. Second the moderators are going to force the threads into1 or delete 2 and only leave you with 1 which will not have the details you've put on here and in the infidelity forum. Also no one on here is saying leave now. They are asking you why you're staying, why are you thinking and feeling things, why do you want to have a relationship talk, why do you want to heal this relationship, why do you want to go forward. We can't tell you what to talk about if we don't know fully what is going on and what and why you're thinking.
If he's out of the house and you aren't sleeping with him I'm not sure what boundaries there are to discuss. If he wants to work on the marriage what is his plan to do that?
I know you want to say that you trust he's talking to women as a friend. Please understand this isn't negativity this is something we've seen 1000 times here. Those women aren't his friends. He cheated on you. He acknowledged cheating on you his job is to make you feel comfortable not himself. If he truly wanted to work on the MR he wouldn't have female friends running around.
Also if he fired you as his wife he's not entitled to you as his best friend. Cheating and asking for a divorce is firing you as his wife. So if you aren't his wife, so much so he can just chat with other ladies when ever then he doesn't get the privileges of you being his best friend either. That's a wife's job.
Honestly if you need something to talk about in this conversation, you should probably ask for some serious clarification about what it is exactly that he wants to do going forward. If he says D then what's his plan and timeline on that. Don't interject. Don't cry. Just nod and listen and pay very careful attention to what he tells you. If he says work on the MR ask him what that means to him and what his plan is to get you guys back on track. Don't interject and don't gush. Just listen. This conversation isn't the why conversation. This is a you need to know exactly where you stand conversation. The why's can come later.
I think if you know where you stand and if we get more clarity on where you stand then we can help you better. Until then you have to stay in one place and dump all the info in one space.
