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smilie Offline OP
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Originally Posted by BL42
So you've been unemployed for 7 years? That's a very long time. Regardless of what she says (a common saying around here is believe none of what they say) it seems likely it could be a factor in play in your sitch.

Are you still in very bad health? If you are able to work I'd recommend seeking out employment for several reasons. First, it will give you some purpose / reason to get out of bed in the morning. Second, it will help you meet and interact with new people. Third, it will improve your financial status. Fourth, maybe (just maybe) it'll improve her view of you (but don't make that the reason).

I was an IT contractor prior to becoming ill. Had an extremely violent vertigo attack on night and that was that. Although that calmed down within about 2 weeks or so, I have been left permenantly dizzy, blurry eyes, severe tinnitus, chronic fatigue, confusion, memory issues and I lose words a lot. It varies day by day. I wear reading glasses in short bursts as they make me spin. And then there's the unannounced vertigo attacks that wake me up and last for days and put me off kilter for weeks on end. It's like being on a ship in a rough sea 24/7, or just coming off a Waltz ride at the fairground. All good fun. I've got used to dealing with it day to day, but couldn't be reliable for work as I can't do things for extended periods (greater than 10 minutes), such as looking down, bending over and moving around fast.

Over the past couple of years since it's got to a stage where I wanted to start a business online under my own terms. I have some ideas and the wife said that she wanted to do it with me, but she never seemed to want to discuss it. I was waiting for her to start it with me, but she never did.

Anyway, there's my brief medical history. I wouldn't be able to hold down a job and would be unreliable.

Originally Posted by BL42
Sounds like the two of you didn't come into the relationship on the best terms. This might be a bit of karma coming your way, as you may be experiencing what her ex did when she cheated with you. Maybe she told you how bad her Ex was and it made you feel she/you were justified in cheating? But then it turned out it was her all along.

This is my thinking also. I am a firm believer in Karma and your comments echo exactly my thoughts. It never did sit right with me. I felt so guilty after she left him. However, she used to tell me that her wasn't attentive to her and used to come home from work and play on his computer games all night, every night.

I've always been attentive, not necessarily romantically because I'm dizzy a lot of the time, and don't do games.

Quote

My Ex-W had to "go in work early" and "stay late" and literally had relations in the office during the work day to the point HR/administration got involved. Another common thing I've read on this forum is how when there's a will (to cheat) there's always a way (to cheat) regardless of what the LBS thinks about their schedule...they'll figure out a way to do it. Hence, you can't control it.

This is the thing you see. She works a 15 min walk from home. Leaves to get there for 9, leaves dead on 5 and gets home at 5:20. I walk her to work some days and meet her also. And I meet her for lunch every now and again. This hasn't happened over the past month though. She always rings me at lunchtime from work and she's in the office as I can hear the background and people pop in and ask her questions. We speak for ages, 40 mins sometimes. I tell her not to phone and use her lunch hour, but she says she wants to and she likes talking to me. The local office is small and there are only 3 or 4 women who work there. I've met them all!

The only difference is she is going for Partner at work and she has been going back and forth to head office, straight from home, for department meetings in casual clothes, etc. She hasn't had a day off this year, so perhaps she's been taking a day off and pretending to go to the head office. And that's only been happening over the past 6-8 weeks or so.

Think I'm giving up on logic! :-)


M(55), W(45)
BD1: Apr-2011, BD2: 23-May-21, NC (15 June '21)
Divorce Filed (16 July '21)
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smilie Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Cadet
Originally Posted by smilie
Brilliant! So basically I'm Alice at the Mad Hatter's tea party then?! You made me smile :-)


In short - YES

I actually did some research about that at one point to see if Lewis Carroll was suffering from something similar.

It is interesting.

Seriously! That would have been a been a story wouldn't it? I wonder if anybody has written a book about this.....


M(55), W(45)
BD1: Apr-2011, BD2: 23-May-21, NC (15 June '21)
Divorce Filed (16 July '21)
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Wayfarer is my new favorite poster so I repost a gem she posted in MLC:

The process of "coming out of it" whether it be waywardness or MLC isn't linear. We would like it to be, but it never it. Which as ovr states its important to focus on your basic DBing tenets. Detach, GAL, and 180. But not to save the MR to save yourself from the chaos. To grow and learn. To heal. And to move forward what ever direction that may be.

As far as my opinion on the above MRs mine included I don't think a single one of these was a case of full blown MLC. MLC is a different animal entirely. In the newbie area there's a lot of poopooing of naming the problem with a WS/WAS because there's a certain group of folks who are of the the thinking that naming the problem is just giving a name to the monster allowing an LBS to excuse terrible behavior of the WS/WAS. But my personal opinion after being here almost 2 years and reading tons and tons of threads you can classify the WS/WAS. I'd say all of our spouses fell more into the wayward category than MLC.

Most of them have a touch of MLC or milestone year crisis, but it's mostly difficulties in the marriage combined with questioning life choices/FOO turmoil/mental health/addiction/etc and making a series of selfish decisions to cope. They deal with their inner turmoil by turning further and further outward from the marriage, their spouse and themselves instead of inward to deal with the relationship and personal emotional crisis. i.e. If I sleep with this person I'll fill the holes in my soul - If I flirt with this person I'll feel worthwhile - If I leave this relationship I'll be happy - If I start over it'll fix everything. Sort of MLC thinking but they don't like go through regression or replay or what ever you call it. They just want to fix things with an escape not return to youth.

As I said above I don't think I can say any of the above people who reconned, and adding May to that list, had a spouse in a full blown MLC. They were waywards. They share similar traits, they put us through similar trials but its just not the same thing. And all of us who reconned have had very, very different paths, very different MRs starting out, very different WS/WAS, very different family situations. Some of us went beginning to end with the spouse in the home. Some WS left and came back. Blu's H left to live with the OW. She had pretty much written off recon. May and I put ourselves through some really hurtful moments trying to stand for our MRs while in an IHS. My H was having a very active, very public PA/EA while still in the home. There is very little all of the above LBSs shared in common except the feelings we were/are dealing with.

I know reading through a lot of the archived stuff there were MLC recons. But it's pretty few and far between. MLCers put the people nearest and dearest to them through some really awful stuff for years. It's a big ask on their part for an LBS to 1) continue to stand and 2) forgive and repair the marriage after all of that. What we we're put through with waywards is so short term in comparison to what a lot of MLC LBS have to deal with. It's a lot easier to forgive 4 months, 6 months, 18 months of chaos than it is to forgive years upon years of that. And as JJ stated on the other thread this is part choice and part chance. We recon because we wanted the recon and so did our spouses. There was always a potential that one of us wouldn't want that. And like ovr said above there is no predicting or controlling the outcome in these things.

Sorry for the book. I know you asked a simple question looking for a simple answer, but I don't know that any of this stuff has simple answers.


M:51 W:46
T:22 M:16
S:15 D:11

“Don't chase people. Be yourself, do your own thing and work hard. The right people - the ones who really belong in your life - will come to you and stay.”- Will Smith
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smilie Offline OP
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So I've been 'dark' for an entire week, but I needed to email the wife this evening to confirm her request to collect her clothes in a couple of weeks (she didn't take ANYTHING with her, apart from her laptop, paperwork, hairdryer and straighteners). I also attached a bill that she required to adjust some payments from her bank.

Very brief message, no fluff, polite, no kisses, just as if I was talking to a friend. So that's that done and he email she sent over a week ago requiring confirmation replied to. Feels horrible.

She should get my lawyers letter over the next couple of days. Why do I feel bad for standing up for myself and getting a lawyer? I don't want to go up against my wife as an opponent, but she has treated me horribly and I need to stand up for myself, nicely of course! I'm all about being honourable and equitable. In my mind she has put herself in this position and put me, once again, in a position that I didn't want t be in.

I guess I'll just have to learn to accept that my wife is the opposition :-/


M(55), W(45)
BD1: Apr-2011, BD2: 23-May-21, NC (15 June '21)
Divorce Filed (16 July '21)
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smilie, one word of advice. Do not look for excuses to reach out. This is a common mistake by LBSs. "I had to contact her because she is supposed to be here to pick up her close in 3 weeks." ?? Really? Does her coming by to get clothes on 7/10 warrant an email on 6/22?

Your mind will trick you into this kind of logic because the longer you go without contact the bigger the loss of control will get. Most of us can only handle that feeling to a certain point and then we feel we need to act. We call it the delusion of actions. "IF I am doing something, then I am still in control!"

Remember this: Doing nothing IS doing something. If she doesn't come get her clothes, no skin off your nose right? It is her that is having to live without them. It is her that should be reaching out to make the arrangements.

The rules of engagement with her at this point should be really simple: Do not initiate contact. If she does, then: If it is informational then you have no reason to respond. If it is a question, then answer it only after some time has passed (not right away) and in as few words as possible. Yes or no questions get yes or no answers.

This is what it looks like:

Her: "I need to come by in the next couple of weeks to get my clothes."

INFORMATIONAL, no response necessary.

2 days later: HER: "Did you get the message about needing to come by and get my clothes?"

QUESTION. After 2 hours, YOU: "Yes."

2 days later HER: "You never told me when I can come to get my clothes, does 7/10 work?"

YOU, after an hour: "Yes."

HER: "Ok what time?"

After another hour YOU: "Anytime after 10am until 2pm. Then anytime after 5pm."

HER: Okay, I will be there at noon. Thank you."

No question from her, the exchange is over.

Also, one tweak to this:

"Very brief message, no fluff, polite, no kisses, just as if I was talking to a friend."

Change to to as if you were talking to the cashier at the store! Look up sandi's 37 rules, it is a sticky thread. Very important that you start learning and following them.

I know you said it feels horrible, but as you get better at it that will change. It will actually feel empowering! It is amazing how LBSs react when the WAS isn't sad, mopey, down, depressed. When you are upbeat, friendly but not overly, pleased, even fulfilled they will start to wonder why and what is going on. After a few exchanges like the above you will start seeing her "temp checking" you. To see if you've moved on or if she still has you on the hook.

sandi's 37 rules are GOLD. PURE GOLD


M(52), W(53),D(17)
M-20, T-23 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
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Lol LH I'm always at the top or bottom of the list aren't I wink thanks for the shout out.

smilie, you have a WAW that is serious about this being done and over like yesterday. This is pretty rare. But it seems like you're not in a place of being absolutely desperate to save the MR more so desperate to deal with the high speed train she's put you on. Forgive me if I'm wrong on that interpretation. So just a few thoughts based on that assessment, sandi, and SteveLW like to remind folks particularly LBHs that WAWs when they leave you need to understand they've been thinking about leaving for months or even years. So you need to understand she's been rolling this around in her head over and over and over again for a long time. She for whatever reason whether it be logical or illogical decided she needed to check out and do so with the clothes on her back and a weekender and pretty much nothing else. She's in a hurry. But that doesn't mean you have to be. Take your time. You have all the time in the world to move forward with the D. To make arrangements for pickups and banking, bills, etc. Just because she's rushing to the finish line doesn't mean you need to be. Do things on your timeline. This isn't a race to the bottom it's a divorce.

And as far as that's all concerned, you're W isn't your enemy or your opposition. So no you don't have to accept that. But it is perfectly normal to feel a sense of guilt worrying about you first. It's normal to feel uneasy preparing to protect your interests in a legal battle against a person you thought you'd grow old with. But viewing this as a war or a contest where there has to be a clear winner will give you no peace. Try to see marriage in it's most bare bones legal context. In that context it's a partnership joined through a contracted agreement. Your wife is in breach of said contract and both of you would like to be released from said contract due to that breach. It was egregious and neither of you can move forward in this partnership because of that. You are organizing the dissolution of a partnership. You're ending a contractual obligation. You must split your assets and liabilities. You must both look out for your own best interests. Concede to what is fair even if you think you deserve better or more than what's deemed fair. And you both will have figure out what are your actual non negotiables and what's worth letting go of so it can move forward. You are not in some kind of battle. You are simply handling a business transaction.

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Originally Posted by SteveLW
smilie, one word of advice. Do not look for excuses to reach out. This is a common mistake by LBSs. "I had to contact her because she is supposed to be here to pick up her close in 3 weeks." ?? Really? Does her coming by to get clothes on 7/10 warrant an email on 6/22?

Your mind will trick you into this kind of logic because the longer you go without contact the bigger the loss of control will get. Most of us can only handle that feeling to a certain point and then we feel we need to act. We call it the delusion of actions. "IF I am doing something, then I am still in control!"

Remember this: Doing nothing IS doing something. If she doesn't come get her clothes, no skin off your nose right? It is her that is having to live without them. It is her that should be reaching out to make the arrangements.

The rules of engagement with her at this point should be really simple: Do not initiate contact. If she does, then: If it is informational then you have no reason to respond. If it is a question, then answer it only after some time has passed (not right away) and in as few words as possible. Yes or no questions get yes or no answers.

I know you said it feels horrible, but as you get better at it that will change. It will actually feel empowering! It is amazing how LBSs react when the WAS isn't sad, mopey, down, depressed. When you are upbeat, friendly but not overly, pleased, even fulfilled they will start to wonder why and what is going on. After a few exchanges like the above you will start seeing her "temp checking" you. To see if you've moved on or if she still has you on the hook.

sandi's 37 rules are GOLD. PURE GOLD

Ah but, this has already happened. So on 15th June, she emailed me to say that she would like to come and collect her clothes. She has arranged for he sister to come with her and asked if 10:30 would be ok. She asked me to let her know".

I waited until today as I wanted to respond just before my lawyer's letter went out. It was also important to let her know about the change to the Standing orders as this would impinge on my lawyers demands if I didn't do that. I wrote in response:

"Yep, that's all fine for the 10th.

I have also attached the lasted Council Tax Bill so that you can adjust the standing orders appropriately. I think the amounts are shown in the bottom box together with the dates. You'll find a fair decrease!

See ya,"


That's it!

I was not finding and excuse, it was something she requested over a week ago. I just waited this long to respond. Perhaps I should have waited to see if she would have chased then? Then she may have thought I was chasing after my lawyers letter went out (tomorrow) which his what I was concerned about.

Perhaps I misunderstood the "rules of engagement?". Seemed appropriate to me. frown


M(55), W(45)
BD1: Apr-2011, BD2: 23-May-21, NC (15 June '21)
Divorce Filed (16 July '21)
---
When you can't see the light at the end of the tunnel, you need to trust it's there.
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smilie Offline OP
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Wayfarer: Now that's a sobering perspective. Thank you.

She was on a speeding train at the start, but she has since slowed. She mentioned about a D in the second week after she went and I met her as I wanted to hear it from her own mouth. She didn't seem sure, but perhaps it was an act. Nevertheless, she hasn't take action and two weeks later she hasn't mentioned it again and the letter she said her lawyer would send me hasn't materialised. However, because she said to expect it, I decided to get myself a lawyer so that they could go through it and respond.

I also needed to employ a lawyer in order to establish immediate financial concerns. As I have been unable to work for a while due to illness, she pays for everything (yes embarrassing, but I can't help having a complex neurological condition) and since she has gone she has not only taken all the savings, but also ceased paying for some things. So interim maintenance payments needed to be arranged. The lawyer is also gauging her intention and passing on my intention to file if she is in agreement that she wants a D. It's also a weight off my mind.

I haven't seen her as my opponent. What I was trying to get at is that she has put me in a position of seeing her as my opponent. This is not what I wanted. D is not what I wanted. I would have preferred a conversation, but it is what it is.

This is hard to navigate as I think logically and I am once again learning that this is not a logical issue, thanks to others' input here.

The bill notification was important as the payments are time sensitive and the values changed. So standing orders needed to be amended by certain dates. I thought that was fair so that she wasn't paying out over 10x more from her account than she needed to. That would have gone against me with her lawyer. I'm not even sure that she has even instructed this woman she works with to be her lawyer, but she gave that impression. Like I said, I have heard nothing from them in 2 weeks since she said I would. So I have been wondering for that time if she really wanted a D after all.

We'll see what my lawyers letter triggers. Other than that I have no more reasons to contact her, so that will be that now, until she turns up (or not) on the 10th July to collect her stuff.

Do I want to work at it? I'm in two minds as she said she was unfaithful. But I would like her to have a truthful discussion with me one day if she chooses to. I do wonder if she is capable of this though, either being truthful or having a discussion. The ball is in her court now anyway. I now have the time to get a handle on my emotions and concentrate on me. I also need to find somewhere to call home as I will need to vacate this rented property located 15 mins from her work. We moved here just for that.

So work on me - 180 - and darkness for a while. The only way for her to contact me officially now is via my lawyer, unless she decides to reach out another way, in which case I shan't respond and I'll post here first!!!! :-)

Thanks for your eye opening comments. I found them really helpful, but please do pick me up if my thinking is wrong here. I'm still finding my bearings.


M(55), W(45)
BD1: Apr-2011, BD2: 23-May-21, NC (15 June '21)
Divorce Filed (16 July '21)
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When you can't see the light at the end of the tunnel, you need to trust it's there.
Joined: Jun 2021
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Originally Posted by SteveLW
sandi's 37 rules are GOLD. PURE GOLD

So I have read through Sandi's 37 Rules and I cannot see that I haven't adhered to them, at all.

Rule 35. Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.

- I didn't. I replied to an email where she asked a question, after a week. What did I do wrong here? smile

I've read again through you example conversation flow and I can't see that I've pursued or contacted unnecessarily. frown


M(55), W(45)
BD1: Apr-2011, BD2: 23-May-21, NC (15 June '21)
Divorce Filed (16 July '21)
---
When you can't see the light at the end of the tunnel, you need to trust it's there.
Joined: Feb 2017
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Smile,

You’re good nothing to see here. Move on.


M:51 W:46
T:22 M:16
S:15 D:11

“Don't chase people. Be yourself, do your own thing and work hard. The right people - the ones who really belong in your life - will come to you and stay.”- Will Smith
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