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#2919917 06/16/21 01:16 AM
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Navarro Offline OP
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My first thread! Im not sure how this all works. I feel like Ive been apart of this group for almost two years. Im a lurker! However, this may be my first post but this forum has helped in my journey tremendously and I am beyond grateful. It took me so long to post because honestly I didnt really think a MLC was real nor did I believe my spouse was old enough to actually be in the middle of one. It took a lot of convincing for me to realize it, address it, and you all have given me the insight to work with it. Now with all of that said I have an extra long story but I am very confused on where my spouses stage actually is and I need guidance to see it through. My spouse is nearing the end (I know everyone thinks that) and trust me I did everything wrong in the beginning but theres a change. Theres a kindness in his voice, calmness with stability, a smile on his face occasionally, lots of communication, hes beginning to enjoy leisure activities, and he is beginning to return to the man I once knew. There is still separation, secrets, lots of drinking, times of anger, depression is still there some, and short times of withdrawing from me. This change in him happened around December 2020 and after major major depression. There is no relationship talk (we do better without that) but I feel like were progressing. Can anyone tell me if this is the beginning of the end of the crisis? Can you tell me if I can be doing anything more to progress it? Can you tell me if I am remaining in the friend zone if I dont encourage relationship talk? Its been 3 years in October, has it been too long for reconciliation? So many questions?

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Welcome to the board

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htm

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!

Get out and Get a Life (GAL).

DETACH.

Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:

I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072

Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414

Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566

Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554

Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619

Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon


Me-67, D35,S34
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Originally Posted by Navarro
How do I post??? It shows I have messages but I cant check them🙈


Looks like you got the hang of it, you will be on moderation for a few days so have some patience.
The UBB software is not notifying us the way it used to so we have to manually check that someone has posted,
and that may not work out to be fast.

Keep posting


Me-67, D35,S34
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Originally Posted by Navarro
My first thread! Im not sure how this all works. I feel like Ive been apart of this group for almost two years. Im a lurker! However, this may be my first post but this forum has helped in my journey tremendously and I am beyond grateful. It took me so long to post because honestly I didnt really think a MLC was real nor did I believe my spouse was old enough to actually be in the middle of one. It took a lot of convincing for me to realize it, address it, and you all have given me the insight to work with it. Now with all of that said I have an extra long story but I am very confused on where my spouses stage actually is and I need guidance to see it through. My spouse is nearing the end (I know everyone thinks that) and trust me I did everything wrong in the beginning but theres a change. Theres a kindness in his voice, calmness with stability, a smile on his face occasionally, lots of communication, hes beginning to enjoy leisure activities, and he is beginning to return to the man I once knew. There is still separation, secrets, lots of drinking, times of anger, depression is still there some, and short times of withdrawing from me. This change in him happened around December 2020 and after major major depression. There is no relationship talk (we do better without that) but I feel like were progressing. Can anyone tell me if this is the beginning of the end of the crisis? Can you tell me if I can be doing anything more to progress it? Can you tell me if I am remaining in the friend zone if I dont encourage relationship talk? Its been 3 years in October, has it been too long for reconciliation? So many questions?


Hi Navarro, welcome to posting on the forum (since you've been here lurking for so long).

I'll try to answer your questions:

"Can anyone tell me if this is the beginning of the end of the crisis?"
No. No one can tell you that. What we can tell you is that these kinds of situations can last a few months, up to a few years. Every sitch is different. More than likely if you injected your WAS with truth serum he couldn't even tell you if it is the beginning or the end.

"Can you tell me if I can be doing anything more to progress it?"
No. It will go at its own pace. What you can be doing is things to progress yourself. That is what DB is all about. Progressing you. Sometimes the MR comes along for the ride. Some people call this "cookie cutter" advice. I call it simplifying a more complex process so a new LBS can understand it at a high-level. GAL. 180s (self-improvements). Detachment. Becoming a spouse that only a fool would leave! One of the best pieces advice I got in my sitch was too take the focus off of my W and onto me!

"Can you tell me if I am remaining in the friend zone if I dont encourage relationship talk?"
One of the first rules of DBing is: Do not start R talks. Avoid them at all costs. If he starts one, listen and validate, and end it as soon as possible. If he starts wanting to work on the MR you will know it and then an R talk can be had. But not until he starts wanting to work on the MR.

"Its been 3 years in October, has it been too long for reconciliation?"
NO! We've seen reconciliations after a D, and several years afterward. It is never too late until YOU decide it is. Many LBSs, once they've moved forward with their lives, see going back to an R with the X is a huge step back.

"So many questions?"
We all had them! Ask away!


M(52), W(53),D(17)
M-20, T-23 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
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Hey Navarro,

I don't think anyone can truly say if this is the beginning of the end. And even then, you putting that expectation only sets you up for pain. I think that you should never make assumptions, and this would be a big assumptions. Time will tell.

I don't think you are too far out to reconcile, but again don't make assumptions and don't set expectations.

Not getting stuck in the friend zone is important, what actions have you been taking that show you aren't in the friend zone?


H 34
W 29
BD 3/12/18
Divorce Busted Spring 19

It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
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Originally Posted by Navarro
My first thread!...I feel like Ive been apart of this group for almost two years. Im a lurker! ...this forum has helped in my journey tremendously and I am beyond grateful...... I am very confused on where my spouses stage actually is and I need guidance.....


Glad you posted. You like most of us start out by looking at our spouse and trying to determine if progress is being made. I strongly suggest that you shift your measuring stick to evaluating yourself. How you behave. How you interact. How you communicate. Are you making positive changes in those areas. Things like that.


This is a save your marriage website, so I assume your goal is to reattract your H.


You didn't mention kids. Do you have any? if so, ages? Current parenting arrangements?

What about you and H age? How long married?


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
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Originally Posted by Navarro
Its been 3 years in October, has it been too long for reconciliation? Can you tell me if I can be doing anything more to progress it?

Well, what 180s have you made and been consistent at for at least one year? What GAL have you been doing? What boundaries did you enforce? 3yrs means time to make and demo changes. (:

Originally Posted by Navarro
Can you tell me if I am remaining in the friend zone if I dont encourage relationship talk?

Initiating R talks rarely helps.

Originally Posted by Navarro
Theres a kindness in his voice, calmness with stability, a smile on his face occasionally, lots of communication, hes beginning to enjoy leisure activities, and he is beginning to return to the man I once knew. There is still separation, secrets, lots of drinking, times of anger, depression is still there some, and short times of withdrawing from me. This change in him happened around December 2020 and after major major depression.

Navarro, it's hard to say. I once emerged from a dark place and part of the process was ending a long-term relationship. When they want back in, it tends to be obvious. Has he been abusive? Did he ever cheat before this?



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Omg thank you all so much for responding!!!! I probably blew you guys up with so many posts in so many different places🙈. I was trying to be short and simple but wow do I have so much to say and ask!

So here goes- I have been married for 18 years and I have 2 very active teenage children. In may of 2018 my husband just stopped coming home at night. He would drag in about 3 or 4am with no explanation what so ever. In the beginning I was confused but not overly concerned. Hes always been a bit of a wild child and boundary pusher. Entire situation escalated and by October I started checking phone record and I hired a PI. Found out nothing much of real importance except he was saying at the bar til 2am with his secretary. Phone records show an abundance of texts to her and it all spiraled in October 2018. I told him either she went or he went and he left. He was unhappy at home long before the EA began with her. She isnt the cause, she isnt the effect. She is young, she is fun, and she wants to drink at the bar with him every night, why not? I had rules, obligations, and priorities. She was everything that I wasnt. By the time I realized there was an issue it was too far gone. Maybe Im naive and Im not convinced that its just an EA but thats my opinion on it. Nothing surprises me at this point tho! First year gone I did everything wrong! I begged, pleaded, and bargained with the devil basically. Oh and did he hate me. He was rebellious, blamed everything on me, and he completely detached. About a year into it I read an article randomly about an MLC and it was mind blowing to me. It really opened my eyes and I began doing a lot of research on it. I think Ive read very article on this forum, twice!! It was my life word for word! With each stage I came to this forum and creeped insight on how to handle situations and gather guidance. I started detaching (but still remaining somewhat attached) after the first year or so and started handling the spewing a bit differently. Things started slowly to get better. There has never been a time through the crisis that he has completely cut off communication. When I began detaching then he opened the lines of communication. It was slow progress in the beginning. Maybe a text or two a day but for the last 8 months or so he has sent up to 50-100 texts a day sometimes.
I noticed in mid October his depression was extreme!!! To the point of crying when he drove up to the house for no reason at all. He poured himself into work, spent a lot of time alone, and drinking. By December and January I started noticing him coming around more often, a genuine smile, he started back doing more activities with the kids, becoming more calm when Im around, actually making commitments that he said he would, he was actually trying for the first time in 2 1/2 years. Our conversations have become better. He is opening up to me more. In an odd way he tells me where he is and what hes doing and who he is with. We still do not speak of our relationship though. I dropped that convo when I detached. Its not been brought up since. In the beginning he would always say to me I dont know how to fix it. I love you and only you. Its always been you. He opens up to me when hes been drinking and tells me things like hes embarrassed of his life and he could have anything but has nothing. I also know he blames me for his lifes problems. He got drunk a few months ago and texted me I love you and I wanna be with you. Ive not mentioned it since to him. He doesnt want me to think that soberly! Thats the first time since he left that hes said one positive thing to me about returning. I do feel like theres forward movement and consistent but sometimes I think is there really a chance after 3 years?? Im healing a lot so if I am then how does he feel? Im to a point where I expect the worst but hope for the best.

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Navarro Offline OP
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Omg thank you all so much for responding!!!! I probably blew you guys up with so many posts in so many different places🙈. I was trying to be short and simple but wow do I have so much to say and ask!

So here goes- I have been married for 18 years and I have 2 very active teenage children. My husband and I are both 40. The kids are great! I have them 95 percent of the time. Weve actually never had an argument over the kids. We didnt want to disrupt their lives so we deal with our own misery and the better we handle it then the less it effects them. We felt it was better for them to stay in their home and not be disrupted. Ive been a stay at home mom all their lives and done the majority of the parenting anyway so its been a little different for them but very minimal. I preach to them their dad is a superhero and he preaches to them that I am Wonder Woman so were still very encouraging with each other. I would like to think were both very good parents despite our hardships. We are still a family unit when it comes to the kids. In may of 2018 my husband just stopped coming home at night. He would drag in about 3 or 4am with no explanation what so ever. In the beginning I was confused but not overly concerned. Hes always been a bit of a wild child and boundary pusher. Entire situation escalated and by October I started checking phone record and I hired a PI. Found out nothing much of real importance except he was saying at the bar til 2am with his secretary. Phone records show an abundance of texts to her and it all spiraled in October 2018. I told him either she went or he went and he left. He was unhappy at home long before the EA began with her. She isnt the cause, she isnt the effect. She is young, she is fun, and she wants to drink at the bar with him every night, why not? I had rules, obligations, and priorities. She was everything that I wasnt. By the time I realized there was an issue it was too far gone. Maybe Im naive and Im not convinced that its just an EA but thats my opinion on it. Nothing surprises me at this point tho! First year gone I did everything wrong! I begged, pleaded, and bargained with the devil basically. Oh and did he hate me. He was rebellious, blamed everything on me, and he completely detached. About a year into it I read an article randomly about an MLC and it was mind blowing to me. It really opened my eyes and I began doing a lot of research on it. I think Ive read very article on this forum, twice!! It was my life word for word! With each stage I came to this forum and creeped insight on how to handle situations and gather guidance. I started detaching (but still remaining somewhat attached) after the first year or so and started handling the spewing a bit differently. Things started slowly to get better. There has never been a time through the crisis that he has completely cut off communication. When I began detaching then he opened the lines of communication. It was slow progress in the beginning. Maybe a text or two a day but for the last 8 months or so he has sent up to 50-100 texts a day sometimes.
I noticed in mid October his depression was extreme!!! To the point of crying when he drove up to the house for no reason at all. He poured himself into work, spent a lot of time alone, and drinking. By December and January I started noticing him coming around more often, a genuine smile, he started back doing more activities with the kids, becoming more calm when Im around, actually making commitments that he said he would, he was actually trying for the first time in 2 1/2 years. Our conversations have become better. He is opening up to me more. In an odd way he tells me where he is and what hes doing and who he is with. We still do not speak of our relationship though. I dropped that convo when I detached. Its not been brought up since. In the beginning he would always say to me I dont know how to fix it. I love you and only you. Its always been you. He opens up to me when hes been drinking and tells me things like hes embarrassed of his life and he could have anything but has nothing. I also know he blames me for his lifes problems. He got drunk a few months ago and texted me I love you and I wanna be with you. Ive not mentioned it since to him. He doesnt want me to think that soberly! Thats the first time since he left that hes said one positive thing to me about returning. I do feel like theres forward movement and consistent but sometimes I think is there really a chance after 3 years?? Im healing a lot so if I am then how does he feel? Im to a point where I expect the worst but hope for the best.

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Navarro Offline OP
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Never any abuse! Yes, he cheated before. I think thats probably where the entire thing began at. In 2016 we arrived home from family vacay in Hawaii and I received a call from a man saying that my hubby had been meeting up with his his stripper wife for the last few years. I was completely blown away!! I confronted, he denied, and then the truth finally came out. I believe thats the reason for the onset of the crisis. I told him to leave and he left but he slept in the back seat of his pick up every night for 3 months until I decided I was ready to forgive him. He came back but it was pure torture for him til he left with the crisis. We had some moments of good times but I never actually forgave him the way I should have. I threw her up at him at any chance given. I think thats what caused him to spiral out of control. We should have went to counseling or something. I will add that I havent mentioned her name in 3 years now. I may be too late for forgiveness now tho😔. He tried to stick it out but I wouldnt allow it. I had a really hard time getting over that. It took me loosing him to forgive him. If that makes any sense at all? I think thats the entire reason for the crisis! I think he just thought I would never look at him the same no matter how hard he tried. Now he can do whatever he wants with no repercussions! I just smile and and agree with everything.

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