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Originally Posted by CWarrior
(1) Women prefer confidence--so address any areas of your life you're unhappy with--e.g., for me a messy car and home


It is said over and over for a reason. And I think once you start to get that confidence back you witness it first hand. Quiet confidence, not cockiness or arrogance.

Originally Posted by CWarrior
(2) Women prefer men with standards, so don't be shy to check potential partners against yours, and don't compromise your values.


The ones worth getting to know do.

Originally Posted by CWarrior
(3), men over-compliment women so no more than one compliment per date. I enjoy expressing gratitude and compliments, and I'm not going to change who I am just to attract people. I'm pretty attractive as-is.


I both agree and disagree with this. I'm all for you being you and owning it. I suppose where the idea that men over-compliment comes from is when it is done to try and win over someone and to get something in return. Comes back to that confidence thing again.


Me: 41 W:42
T: 14 M: 11
S: 6

"What happened happened, and couldn't have happened any other way...because it didn't"
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Hi all!

Thanks a lot for your comments and apologies I have been out for so long. New project is up and running and I am leading it solo, it is really intense, it involves computer vision, OCR and orchestration of automated pipelines for training and inference in ML within a very restricted environment. It is going amazing, even my manager has complimented me on the state of the project. Yay! wink

I have joined a couple or running races in October and I cannot wait, I bought a water camel bag for outdoor long runs and I am going to buy a road bike and start swimming to join a sprint triathlon when I feel prepared. Crossfit continues to impress me and helps me meet new people, it feels like you are a member of a great community.

I am working on accepting this is permanent, I try to fight all my thoughts that take me back to our time in the UK and Germany and telling me this hell is temporary and my life will change thanks to all the effort and work I am putting on myself. I have no contact with W, even when I exchange the kids I just give them the best goodbye hugs and kisses and I leave. I think a lot about the day when Sandi wrote to me that I had to build a life without her and grow stronger, that is where my compass is pointing to.

The time I spend with the kids continues to be fantastic. We have been a couple of times to the beach on long weekends and the fact that I work with people in Dubai for this project means I can leave early on Fridays. I am playing a ps4 game with s7 that he loves and we have such a blast together, I pretend to be worse than I really am to let him shine and he is just so happy. S2, soon to be 3, has started calling me out as daddy, he will sometimes shout daddy look! and do some funny thing. Regarding the work-kids decision, I already made that when I was in Munich and visiting every 15 days and I am not going back to that life. It just makes me frustrated because I keep getting recruitment calls (none of them in Spain) and as you might remember I got the "needs improvement" review in my team and I don't think it was fair. I still have so much to give and so much to shine professionally but I have to be in Seville 50% of my time and cannot take the kids with me to Madrid or London, that is what hurts the most. I am sure you will understand what I am trying to say.

Last weekend I went to a racetrack to drive a Ferrari 488 for 2 laps as my bd gift from last year. While I was there, having the time of my life, I was thinking "Why did I give up on this dream? this is what makes my heart go bonkers and gives me goosebumps. I need to fight for this, for my dreams, I want a life where I can have a decent car and take it to the track and that is not going to be easy, but I know I can make it happen (does not have to be a Ferrari of course, but that is my dream)". I also took S7 karting and he was scared, I had all this expectations that he was going to have a great time and we would both love it and he ended up crying in the middle of the track because I went for a fast lap and left him driving his kid kart "alone". I felt terrible, like I was pushing my passion on him to hard but at the same time it was a sad day for me, I had expected the outcome to be totally different.

A couple of weeks ago I was very busy and missed the calls from W to speak to S7 at the end of the evening. When we exchanged the kids she walked to me in her righteous way to tell me if I was not going to enable communication I could not have shared custody and that she could have taken custody from me. I told her I had been very busy, I was not punishing her and that I am not scared of her threats and manipulation anymore. In fact, I told her to go seek a judge as I was more than ready to D the woman she has become. Then she told me she did not want that because she has nothing against me as a father but she told me I would not leave until I committed to having S7 calling her everyday. I tried to leave and she was holding my car's door. I told her I did not want a scene and that if she wanted to get to me, threats and manipulation were the wrong path. I kissed my kids goodbye, left, cried in the car at home and immediately went for one of my killer runs at 4:30 min/km.

We are getting the keys to our flat in Munich at the beginning of July and she has started sending me all this politically correct emails saying we need to communicate because of the kids, telling me she knows I hate her and to put it aside, saying she is entitled to decide about the house. You know the story, I am paying the mortgage alone since she left home at the end of 2019, on top of a more than generous alimony that was agreed when I was in a very dark emotional place. I have made some unfortunate comments in the past and I want to rely on this board to help me face this as a man of integrity and values as I consider myself to be. Something I had worked so hard to achieve, the education and the life for my kids in a city with so many opportunities and all I can think of is to handle the process myself and inform her only of essentials. Am I being immature here? This subject hurts me beyond words can explain and I am scared I might be reacting to it emotionally, I just cant help it. I am sure you will also understand what I mean.

Last week W sent me an email because her brother is getting married, kids are with me and she wants them to be part of the religious ceremony. I did not want them to go, not to hurt her, is just I think is a farce that she wants our children to be active part of a religious wedding ceremony. Again, a man of principles with a mature mindset, I have ended up telling her we can swap that weekend for another one because I imagine it is important for her that they are there. To that she has replied that she only wants them to attend the mess at 20:00 on Saturday. I answered that they are little children and should not be traveling for that short and coming back that late, she gets the weekend and I get another weekend in August as an exchange. I am not going to be mean, but things are going to go my way now (in all that involves my life).

I have confirmation there have been more than one OM. I do not care this is the mother of the two best things I have in my life, I deserve so much better. Las time I tried to talk to her about the future she said "she was aware the father of her children was not going to be in her life and it was my fault. She said it has been 2 years already and I should move on and that there were going to be men in her life I would never meet". As proud as I am of my changes and new found respect as a man, you can imagine how it hurt listening to those words from the person that swore you faithfulness. W also told me she was fired from her previous job and now she earns a lower salary, which means for the D after we sell the house I might face the same unfair alimony I have now because of differences in our salaries. Turns out life in Munich with the monster of her ex husband was not so bad after all and all the things I valued from what we had achieved are indeed worth the effort I put on them.

The loneliness issue is not about dating or not, I might have given there a false impression. I have a lot on my plate at work because I want to grow and promote, I am learning a lot and it is great, but on top of that I am the father of 2 kids half the time and one of them is 2 and needs a lot of attention. I will try to make more plans and be social and talk to strangers. I have always been a cheerful person, I smile, I make jokes, I laugh at my own jokes. It should not be hard for me to make new friends wherever I go.

I need to save Pack from all that I have been through. I need to solidify my changes and rediscover love and respect for the man I am and the values I have. I need to believe I am a great father, worker, runner, friend, son and brother and I need to write in my head I deserve so much more than W.

I will come more often, you always help me make the right decisions as a man of honor and principles.

P - Running and biking. Get ready for the marathon, continue to improve my records in cross-fit. Keep up great hygiene. Find ways to develop my muscles and read about diet and exercise.
I - Promote at work, read my books about men and woman. Make a list of my unalterable terms and use any opportunity to learn and grow as a person. Pass the motorbike test, save for the car I always wanted, make it happen.
E - Talk to friends and family, quality time with my children. Practice active listening and validation, specially with women around me. Be social and fun again.
S - Forgive myself for my mistakes, keep an eye on the father and man I am. Find peace that I tried my best and it was never in my hands to R. Detach and GAL


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Me 29 W:29
M: 5yrs T:10yrs
S:6 yrs S:1 yr
BD: "I want a D" 08/09/19
Sep: 10/27/19
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Pack, great to hear from you and great update! Well done all around here. As far as your struggle with the house and such, just try to remain as unbiased as you can. I do not think you are being immature. We all struggle with how to act and to treat our WAS/WS when they start acting entitled or dare to ask for our help. In my own sitch, after BD, I can remember my W asking me for help to review her resume and if she could buy books to help her with interviewing. My initial thought was "I am not going to HELP you leave me". But then I tried to look at the situation outside of myself. As a legally married couple our money was just that, OUR money. And she was leaving regardless. So I tried to keep the mindset about how to react as a truly detached person without thoughts of vengeance, It also helped show her that I wa accepting her decision to leave me and that I was moving on myself.

It is tough though. I know how you feel and struggle between good Pack and bad Pack. I forget if you are in IC, but I really encourage you to get/stay in IC and work through these struggles.


M(53), W(54),D(19)
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Hi Steve!

Thanks a lot for the post! Yes I am in IC but I took a long break because I started paying the crossfit gym and with the house in Munich it was too much on the plate, what I will do this time is most likely come here more often and talk to you all.

I dont think there ever was a "bad" Pack. I guess my perspective of all of this is changing and as I see what W never gave me (having acknowledged and continue working on my own controlling and lack of empathy issues), I get again all those feelings of "why cannot she value all that we had and how hard it was to achieve?" or "were my needs being covered by her?". Reading her cold emails, finishing on sentences like "you have my phone and email in case you need to clarify this or that about the kids" is still harsh on me. These feelings fuel me to continue focusing on Pack because I feel I am not detached to the level I should be.

I was walking the other day back from a school party, S2 on my shoulders and S7 by my hand. We walked pass W's father and he was pretending to not have seen me. I shouted out his name and said hello with a smile. I dont understand why they all behave like that around me, like I destroyed her and I have to be shunt away like an infected rat. Just wanted to share it here, nothing major.

I havent heard back from W regarding her brother's wedding, I honestly wanted to ask the board for help because I was not sure I was reacting on a healthy way. Nothing is going to change the fact that I think her values are now rotten and it is a farce to want our children to get actively involved in church traditions.

I am trying to put my kids and PIES ahead of everything else in my life. I went shopping today for some new summer clothes (remember to not back slide from the well earned changes! wink ) and the day before yesterday I passed my motorbike track exam! Only the road one left and I can own a Honda! smile I am starting to lift heavier weights at crossfit and I feel myself a more mature professional in my team now that I know I can handle complex projects alone.

I have been feeling like I am failing to have a cordial R with W and that is poor on my side wrt the kids. Let me explain, now every time we exchange the kids she smiles and says oh goodbye Pack! Or she maybe asks me "why cant you just tell me goodbye like I am a person?", or she jokes with the kids or she tells me something about S2. When I hear or see this all I can think is, "too late W, you have gone too far and I deserve so much better". I dont want to be vindictive or harsh or disrespectful and I have mentioned before in this board that I dont want to be friends with W, I have good friends already and I expected something very different from our M. Again same as before, I have thoughts that I might be immature or vindictive.

Why is it so hard for me to trust my instinct and values as a man? I have never been a bad person, for sure, I should trust my heart and my head much more than I do. After all she has done and after all the blame, the accusations, the manipulation, threats and ignorance, this is how my heart reacts to this fake chit-chat talk she tries to start. I am sure some of you will understand me and help me. I will be forever grateful for all the people in this board because honestly you are helping me save Pack from this ugly wreck.

Thank you all! ((hugs)), Pack


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Me 29 W:29
M: 5yrs T:10yrs
S:6 yrs S:1 yr
BD: "I want a D" 08/09/19
Sep: 10/27/19
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Pack,

I don't think you are truly detached. You are holding your wife actions against her. You are going to have to let that go in order for you to heal. Would you tell another person that tells you goodbye, "goodbye". Would you provide a response?

She want deceive you if you just tell her goodbye. I understand you don't want to be friends, but giving salutations, won't make you friends. You can have a cordial relationship, and also respect yourself.

She stills has some control over you as long as, you keep holding this vendetta against her. FREE YOURSELF, by allowing yourself to treat her like a normal person.


M:37 W:37
T:11 M:10
S17, S13, S10, S4
BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
Working hard:2gether

Onward and forward

This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
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Originally Posted by Pack_19
Hi Steve!

Thanks a lot for the post! Yes I am in IC but I took a long break because I started paying the crossfit gym and with the house in Munich it was too much on the plate, what I will do this time is most likely come here more often and talk to you all.

I dont think there ever was a "bad" Pack. I guess my perspective of all of this is changing and as I see what W never gave me (having acknowledged and continue working on my own controlling and lack of empathy issues), I get again all those feelings of "why cannot she value all that we had and how hard it was to achieve?" or "were my needs being covered by her?". Reading her cold emails, finishing on sentences like "you have my phone and email in case you need to clarify this or that about the kids" is still harsh on me. These feelings fuel me to continue focusing on Pack because I feel I am not detached to the level I should be.

I was walking the other day back from a school party, S2 on my shoulders and S7 by my hand. We walked pass W's father and he was pretending to not have seen me. I shouted out his name and said hello with a smile. I dont understand why they all behave like that around me, like I destroyed her and I have to be shunt away like an infected rat. Just wanted to share it here, nothing major.

I havent heard back from W regarding her brother's wedding, I honestly wanted to ask the board for help because I was not sure I was reacting on a healthy way. Nothing is going to change the fact that I think her values are now rotten and it is a farce to want our children to get actively involved in church traditions.

I am trying to put my kids and PIES ahead of everything else in my life. I went shopping today for some new summer clothes (remember to not back slide from the well earned changes! wink ) and the day before yesterday I passed my motorbike track exam! Only the road one left and I can own a Honda! smile I am starting to lift heavier weights at crossfit and I feel myself a more mature professional in my team now that I know I can handle complex projects alone.

I have been feeling like I am failing to have a cordial R with W and that is poor on my side wrt the kids. Let me explain, now every time we exchange the kids she smiles and says oh goodbye Pack! Or she maybe asks me "why cant you just tell me goodbye like I am a person?", or she jokes with the kids or she tells me something about S2. When I hear or see this all I can think is, "too late W, you have gone too far and I deserve so much better". I dont want to be vindictive or harsh or disrespectful and I have mentioned before in this board that I dont want to be friends with W, I have good friends already and I expected something very different from our M. Again same as before, I have thoughts that I might be immature or vindictive.

Why is it so hard for me to trust my instinct and values as a man? I have never been a bad person, for sure, I should trust my heart and my head much more than I do. After all she has done and after all the blame, the accusations, the manipulation, threats and ignorance, this is how my heart reacts to this fake chit-chat talk she tries to start. I am sure some of you will understand me and help me. I will be forever grateful for all the people in this board because honestly you are helping me save Pack from this ugly wreck.

Thank you all! ((hugs)), Pack



Wow, very honest and forthright post, Pack. I am sincerely moved by your desire to share these deep, inner-feelings here, and talk about your struggles. We all have them, and so I am very proud of you for being able to come here and say "I should be crushing all this but feel like I am not."

I understand fully what you mean by not being her friend. And not wanting to even pretend. We all have people in our lives that want to be closer to us than we want to be to them. It is part of life. My advice is to just keep doing what you are doing. Do you. 1. Kid. 2. PIES. 3 EVERYTHING else. Keep sticking to business with your Ex. When she asks questions like "explain, now every time we exchange the kids she smiles and says oh goodbye Pack! Or she maybe asks me "why cant you just tell me goodbye like I am a person?" just something that validates her feelings. But I do not think you should do anything disingenuous, or that you aren't comfortable with.

Next time she says something like that, maybe just explain to her that there is a lot of water under the bridge and that you are still trying to sort everything out in your mind. Be honest with her. "I am still struggling with what our R should look like moving forward." Something that let's her know that you aren't where she appears to be in that regard. Reassure her that you will continue to work with her WRT the kids and coparenting. But beyond that you are still figuring out how to relate to her with everything that has happened.

As far as the incident with her dad. Remember, these situations are completely uncomfortable for the people on the periphery. My neice's baby-daddy, who was abusive towards her, came up to me at their son's 1 year-old b-day (pre-COVID) and shook my hand. I didn't want to shake his had, but the "nice" side of me had me doing so. But trying to know how to act around family member's exes is always uncomfortable. So cut him some slack. He is in an uncomfortable position around you in the best of circumstances. Not to mention what his daughter may have told him about you.


M(53), W(54),D(19)
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Hi Steve, all,

Thanks again for your posts. Things are getting better I think. I am working a lot on my PIES and on accepting that this is my new life permanently and fighting those thoughts about the value in all I shared with my ex-W. At the same time, I keep high in my head all the comments from LH19 (that I need to learn to walk away from things that dont work for me, that I should listen to the voice in my head that tells me I deserve better, that I must work on my boundaries and self esteem...)

I finished the project at work, it has been a great success! But now there is a new one coming right after holidays on the 16th August and I feel this year is going to be very demanding. I also got a second hand carbon road bike, it is quite old but it will do the job to get me started. Now that the kids are with W for some days, I am back to running and I can say I am better than right after covid. From an emotional point of view I am working hard on not chasing people and being a light beam for those that do want to be in my life, learning what women expect from us, having a clear vision of my principles and the man and father I want to be. Perhaps the best piece of news is that we might have a buyer for the house in Munich, that should finally set me free financially from our M. As you know, I struggle a lot with the house, I got some new pictures from the person that will help us with the selling and it just looks great. I cannot remove the emotional load the house has as an achievement and the plan for my life I had with her and the kids. I am trying to make an effort to think, with the earnings from the house I will afford a humble performance car, which I have always wanted as a dream, but it feels I am forcing myself to see this in a selfish way to accept my life plans have been dynamited. Hopefully you know what I mean.

Now that all that W has done, the stories about OMs and her attitude from day one is starting to hit me as I gain back confidence and see again the value in the things I had provided and continue to bring to my family; I am very scared of this vindictive attitude that is growing in me and the worst is how sometimes I still get occasional comments from S7 that he would love to have his mom and dad together again and all I can think is now the "no" is on my side as I deserve much better than all of this. Don't misunderstand me, I have a clear picture of my mistakes and areas of improvement, but now is like I despise the woman she has become and I dont want anything to do with her and I feel again like I am being immature in being unable to say "W, I have suffered a lot, but I wish you no wrong, I hope you can be happy and rebuild your life". But when I see her, I still see my W and the mother of my children and I cannot understand what we did so wrong that this situation is better for us four... what is wrong with my head?

I need support from the board in a subject. W had covid last week and she was mean to have the kids the first fortnight in July. We had a chat over email and when I asked her to clarify when she tested positive to make sure it was save for S3 she replied in a bitter tone via email that the doctor had told her last Tuesday and she needed not my permission to go out but only inform me. I dont know where this comments come from, eventually she had to put off the date till Thursday to pick them up and I have not known when she tested positive (if I ask is like I want to control her or get my nose in her life from her point of view). So after picking them up she has asked me if they can stay longer with her because I then have 15 days with them.

On the 23rd was my S3 birthday, all I could do is send W a message asking her to wish him happy birthday from my side. I got a picture and that was all. I went to bed feeling like crap, my son turns 3 and I am not there. And worst is this is the first of many to come...I need to get stronger emotionally, I know, but this hurts same as the day they all 3 left home in Munich and I was left there with my head spinning, crying and unable to understand what was happening.

Yesterday I was video calling S7 and I had the brilliant idea of asking him. This is what happened after I talked to S7 about his day and how he was doing.
Me: S7, mommy asked me if you can stay with her 1 or 2 days more, for me it is not a problem, are you ok to stay or would you like to come with me next Saturday?
S7: I want to go with you daddy.
W- Interrupts from the background: S7, you told me you wanted to stay.
S7: yes daddy, I what to stay. Mom said if I stay I will have time to open the new mario lego she got us.
Me: Oh ok! I have no new toys but yes of course you can stay, I wanted to see what you thought!
W - again from the background - I am not buying them, it is YOU the one that always buys them. Stop getting MY son in between this and manipulating them against me.

I immediately hanged up. I got a message later from S7 asking if I was mad, I replied I wasnt I just got nervous and I didn't want him to see any more fights between his mom and me. My friends were present, they rapidly told me I was making a big mistake, that my chats with S7 should be about how much I love him and how he is doing, and THAT is all.
I tried to explain it to them, they told me they knew it hurt beyond they could understand but my number 1 should be the kids, and for them I need to avoid all conflicts and suck up my pride.

I feel they are right and I messed up yesterday, so here comes my request for support. I talk about many things with S7, I try to show him I care about his opinion even when I make decisions against it. Did I make a mistake by asking him about this subject? what things should I share and what things do I need to keep away from him? How can I prevent W being snooping there all the time when I talk to S7?? can I even do that without hurting S7 feelings?

I honestly asked yesterday thinking I can grant her 1 or 2 days more (this is how stupid I am), even when I only have 15 days holidays this summer and I want to make the most of them with my children as these days are in between projects and I will have to go back to working until 18 every day. Now all I can think is, W I am sorry you got covid and could not enjoy them for longer, but I cannot compromise my holidays with them for you. I am not here to do any more sacrifices for you anymore. Should I let them stay 1 or 2 days more?? I feel like I try to be nice, to stay away from her and to heal. When we have informal encounters, she is all cheerful and nice. When she needs something from me or I go against her, we are back to blame insults and hurtful statements. Can I please have your opinion on what I have done wrong and need to improve and how to deal with these requests from W from the point of view of a strong man that is finally willing to show her I wont tolerate any more disrespect and humiliation?

Thank you all, I am talking to my new layer to file as soon as I sell the house in Munich. I have so much work to do on myself, but I am sure I will become the best man, father and partner I can be when this hell is over and I can finally drop all my attachment to our life as a family. This time I am really looking forward to your answers, thanks a lot, for helping me grow to become a better person and being blunt and sincere.

((hugs)) Pack

Last edited by Pack_19; 07/25/21 10:24 AM.

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Me 29 W:29
M: 5yrs T:10yrs
S:6 yrs S:1 yr
BD: "I want a D" 08/09/19
Sep: 10/27/19
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So Pack quickly you have to suck it up and put your kids first in those conversations. Your son thinks you hung up on him not your STBXW.

If you don’t want to give up time with the kids then don’t. No grand statements just say no.

You are still in love with the fantasy. It doesn’t exist.

Lastly, this isn’t who your STBXW has become. This is who she has always been. You just couldn’t see it.

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Good old covid, well my son had it and it so transpired that my s7 stayed with his dad, whilst s5 (had covid) and stayed at home with me. It wasnt very nice not to have s7 at home for 5 days in a row, but once he was back home, we were back to normal schedule. We are going away for over 2 weeks shortly, it doesnt mean that H gets to have the boys for longer before or after. I personally think if it interferes with what you already have planned its a simple no, you stick to your schedule.

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Hi Pack,

Yes, you goofed. I kinda get your thinking--"Does S slightly prefer Mom's or Dad's place? I'll let him choose so he gets that +10% happiness." The problem is, you're making your S choose between Mom and Dad. He should never have to choose between his parents. The stress this creates outweighs any benefit asking his opinion might have offered.

Instead of worrying about snooping, I'd try not to tell S7 anything, either on these calls or while at your home, that he has to keep a secret or that you worry about mom overhearing. I expect Mom to be paying more attention to what you tell S for a spell.

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