Fierce compassion, equanimity, integrity #2

[DnJ]

Good Morning cardinal

(((Hugs)))

Well done girl!

I felt bad for him. I mean, it wasn’t an ungodly amount, but it would have wiped out my small savings. I googled just to see, and found out we could file an amended joint return so that he wouldn’t owe so much. Reader, maybe I should have just let him live out the consequences of last year’s anger and impulsiveness, lack of foresight. That was on my mind. But I also felt like if I could help him at no cost to myself (he would pay me back the refund I was owed and would pay his tax liability), why not? It felt like the right thing to do. I would have wanted him to do it for me, had the situation been reversed.

That is a forgiving view. A view which serves you.

So I offered up the possibility. I talked to my IC afterwards briefly, and she appreciated that I factored my values into the decision, but also suggested it could also be a way of enabling him. Well, then I questioned my decision even more. I thought of what people might say here.

I say, and did just say, well done girl!

Offering to help had no cost to you. And not offering would have had a cost, a toll.

It would be enabling, if he was still angry, had a chip on his shoulder towards you, twisted this into blaming you, and so on. He didn’t/doesn’t. And you helped.

I am proud of you cardinal. The pull of letting him suffer his consequences is there. And if he had behaved in the stubborn blameful manner of the last years, I’m sure you would have left him to his deserved desserts.

You only control you. You realized last year his lack of foresight and prepared for paying more. You travelled in your own car to the appointment. You did so good walking your path.

H’s gratitude was genuine. And it sure doesn’t sound like it is from paying less income tax. He was vulnerable and you didn’t attack him. A common fear of the betraying spouse I would suspect. The LBS extracting their owed pound of flesh. As I’ve often said, forgiveness is not a widely held belief or value in current society; it is rarely displayed. Vengeance and tit for tat is the usual response. As much as H’s behaviour surprised you, your’s surprised him.

Consider his view point. He knows he doesn’t deserve such good natured treatment. Yet you did just that. And for your own values, not to manipulate. Actions based upon one’s beliefs and convictions are the ones that matter, the ones that truly have the best chance of influence. Sincerity in thought and heart matters.

Like, remember those feelings you put away, remember that hope? Still there! It’s hard to still care, to realize how much I still care. Sometimes I want to search until I find some love letter he’s written someone else, something, anything, that would maybe erase the rest of my hope, because when I am reminded it’s there, it’s painful. It’s sad because I miss him and I can’t do anything about it but accept that things are the way they are.

Oh the flickering flame of hope. Nice to see it is still there.

We all must unpack those put away feelings at some point. It is part of the path. Part of finding acceptance.

I submit a clarity to you:

“It’s hard to still care, to realize how much I still care.”

No, it is hard to not care.

Attempting to find something to erase your hope, to not care, to help ease the pain. (((cardinal))) I understand. However, that is a cheese-less tunnel. Acceptance, aside from accepting the way things are, includes accepting your feelings.

I miss J. Every. Single. Day. And I live and love my life. One can do both. Along with holding themselves and others accountable. Being responsible. Having integrity. And so on. Life is not simple, and is, at the same time.

I believe in hope. Life is much better looking through that lens, in my humble opinion.

I don’t have expectations that he will change—oh, geez, though, just realized I have expectations that he won’t change. He’s just so good at distracting himself.

You hit the nail right on the head.

Letting go causes a void and one oftentimes unknowingly grasps the opposite of that which they are letting go of. Expectations - hope with a timeline/deadline - of the opposite are commonly grasped. Letting go of the feeling and thought that H will change, completely makes sense to pick up that he might not. And that slowly turns into an expectation he won’t.

Having no expectations is the same as expecting/accepting anything (without the timeline ). In expecting no actual outcome, all possibilities become valid. And possibilities is where hope lives.

Letting go of our expectations also removes our usual binary view of things. And there is a myriad of possibilities. Never in a million years would you have expected what H just did. And yet, he just did it. Rather interesting, the limits we place upon our own view of things.

Of course this interaction would cue up all manner of mixed emotions. You know feelings will settle.

The answers to those “what’s next” questions for both work and life are most worthy, and your recent interactions have highlighted some most important values of your’s to ensure you include.

The future is quite unknown, where possibilities abound. Continue walking your excellent path towards your worthy goals.

D

[Eagle3]

Dear Cardinal,

I just wanted to let you know that you handled the situation incredibly well.

Sometimes it doesn't feel right, or it feels different, but as I can read you have everything under control.

XXX

[Sage4]

Cardi, wow sweet one, you have come so far. Your update was beautiful to read; it oozes gentle self-confidence and wisdom. You are trusting yourself, acting on compassion mixed with rationality. And the biggest sign of your progress is you asking yourself about the bigger questions in life: what do I want out of my profession? What's next? Where from here for ME?

And the hope component? I feel you, sister. One thought that I have been marinating on is 'what if hope never goes away completely?' I know intellectually that I have to move on with my life, find the best path forward for myself, regardless of H's role in it. And that is my primary fuel at the moment. So the hope element may just be something I have to learn to live with; it waxes when he is 'nice' and wanes when he turns back inward. My growth: moving on to my best self cannot be dependent on the feelings of another human.

DnJ has been instrumental in helping me understand that feelings come and go. So it makes little sense for me (us) to ballast our boat on another's feelings. A dear friend of mine shared an interested concept that he recently read about: we tend to mistake the strength of our emotional reactions for the strength of our logic. Let logic prevail. Allow hope to be a presence, but allow the future (logic, growth, safety) to eclipse hope. Both are allowed their light, but one is a little more powerful than the other.

And I will leave you with another quote shared from the same friend that touched me (and brought hope in a different sense):

"Now every time I witness a strong person,
I want to know:
What dark did you conquer in your story?
Mountains do not rise without earthquakes."
-Katherine MacKennett


Hugs, Cardi, I am so proud to know you and your story.

xx
S

[markw]

"Now every time I witness a strong person,
I want to know:
What dark did you conquer in your story?
Mountains do not rise without earthquakes."
-Katherine MacKennett
S

love this quote - it says so much in so little words.

[DnJ]

What dark did you conquer in your story?

I love that!

[may22]

Hi Cardinal,

Just wanted to pop in to say hello, you're amazing, I'm thinking of you. So proud and impressed at how you handled all of this. Your strength and growth are inspirational.

And... you're human to have feelings of sadness and hope. They're authentic and I love that you acknowledge them and honor them and baked yourself a cake.

Sending love and hugs your way.

xx M

[DejaVu6]

Gosh Cardinal. I am glad you decided to help him out. I think staying true to yourself and your values regardless of the other person’s actions is so, so important. Long after the hurt feelings fade, you will want to look in the mirror and be proud of how you acted during this time. You, my friend, will be able to do that in spades. I hope you make a really yummy cake and enjoy every bite. (((HUGS)))

[cardinal]

Thanks so much, friends, for your kind words and encouragement. I do feel good about my decision, that I was at a place where I could recognize all of the motivations and feelings that went along with it, but have enough distance to know that ultimately I was really making it for me. All of you have helped me along to this point, and I am so grateful.

However, that is a cheese-less tunnel. Acceptance, aside from accepting the way things are, includes accepting your feelings.

I miss J. Every. Single. Day. And I live and love my life. One can do both. Along with holding themselves and others accountable. Being responsible. Having integrity. And so on. Life is not simple, and is, at the same time.

I know intellectually that I have to move on with my life, find the best path forward for myself, regardless of H's role in it. And that is my primary fuel at the moment. So the hope element may just be something I have to learn to live with; it waxes when he is 'nice' and wanes when he turns back inward. My growth: moving on to my best self cannot be dependent on the feelings of another human.

DnJ, thank you, as always, for sharing your thoughts and your feelings here too. Your response and Sage's words too got me thinking about how maybe the next part of my path is learning to live with hope, to accept that it is. To accept that I still miss H and love him, and also I am living my life. Does this hurt sometimes, is there sadness alongside the contentment? Oh yeah. I don't think I can avoid it. I have to instead accept it.

Because the opposite--not feeling any sadness--is hard to imagine. I keep asking myself, how can you really love someone and then, one year, just not love them any more? I mean, obviously, this happens, but it hasn't happened to me. As hard as this is, I don't want to feel nothing.

H continues to be conversational, friendly, and today was cleaning his room and brought me an old notebook of his, from around the time we moved here together but before we were married. That notebook used to live in the living room, and shortly after BD I flipped through it and found a letter that he'd been writing to a friend before we were married, all about how well I understood him and how he was so happy to be with me. So that memory hurt. Then H showed me a funny drawing in it, that's all. It brought me right back to that time period, though, before we were M, to all that was then, and as soon as he left the room I was crying. It feels like he has no trouble bringing up stuff that happened in our past, like it's all a slightly fond, distant memory. Like since he's moved on completely, these memories or references are not fraught at all. Like he assumes I'm on the same page, fine with being friends and roommates and wanting nothing more. But for me, all these little references are kind of gutting, all the more because from what I see, they don't carry the same (any) emotional weight for him. It hits me all over again: he doesn't love me. And then my reaction highlights the fact that we seem to be in very different places. I start questioning again--how can he move on so quickly? What if he never really loved me? But I felt it--I saw it. Then how can it just disappear? How can 17 years just be all in the past, no big deal? MLC or not, maybe the simple answer is he loved me once and just doesn't love me anymore. But how can that be? ...

And I'm stuck in this particular little circle. I can acknowledge the pain and sadness, that it's just there, alongside everything else. But it's also just so dang hard to love this person and enjoy his company now but see the contrast between how he interacts with me, how I interact with him, and how I feel inside.

Two other things come to mind, though. One is that I was listening to an interview with a writer I love the other day, and she said, it often seems to be that people who are married the longest are psychologists or therapists or people who study human nature in some capacity, because they understand that at some point in any relationship you are probably going to believe you married the wrong person, but that doesn't mean it's true.

And also my friend who likes to say that in a long relationship or marriage, you probably won't feel like you're in love forever, but you have to recognize that feelings change all the time, and that doesn't mean you should base your decisions on them. (Is she quoting DnJ? LOL.) You may feel like you don't love your S for a year, but that doesn't mean that love won't return.

I've never had trouble finding love for H, even if some days I don't like him much, you know? Not in our M and not now. I know that is a strength of mine even though it hurts.

[wayfarer]

Hello cardinal,

I'm always watching just so you know but things are so different over here, I rarely feel I have much to contribute. Sometimes I feel too young to have much of anything wise to say. And sometimes I feel too lucky to put in my two cents in sitches that drag out like they do with a real MLC. But this struck me and I couldn't pass by without comment.

Two other things come to mind, though. One is that I was listening to an interview with a writer I love the other day, and she said, it often seems to be that people who are married the longest are psychologists or therapists or people who study human nature in some capacity, because they understand that at some point in any relationship you are probably going to believe you married the wrong person, but that doesn't mean it's true.

And also my friend who likes to say that in a long relationship or marriage, you probably won't feel like you're in love forever, but you have to recognize that feelings change all the time, and that doesn't mean you should base your decisions on them. (Is she quoting DnJ? LOL.) You may feel like you don't love your S for a year, but that doesn't mean that love won't return.

I've never had trouble finding love for H, even if some days I don't like him much, you know? Not in our M and not now. I know that is a strength of mine even though it hurts.

This was something H and I circled over and over as we R'd and still circle over and over again. He had never been in a relationship that lasted more than a couple of years before me. And He didn't really have an example of long standing love. He only had one in his life and there was an A there too. But they moved past it, but I can't say how much the LBW has actually moved past any of it. She still brings it up. It's been almost15 years since.

I however had my grandparents who are going on their 59th year. And my aunt and uncle who each married their high school sweet hearts. They are hitting mile stones this summer respectively at 30 and 25 years. I think a huge part of the reason I am the way I am is because I've learned to love through the hard stuff my entire life. I learned that you will not always like the person you love. You will not always love the person you love in the same way. That you will both change, and hopefully grow, and the best you can both do is wait for the other person to catch up or at the very least be willing to be supportive during that time. You will get hurt, and frustrated, and sometimes even apathetic in your relationship but if you always choose to turn inward instead of outward things will fall back into place, maybe not the the same order, but back into stead foundation.

I've seen all of those relationship bloom and wither, and storm and shine. I think people who don't understand that love is verb not a noun don't truly understand that love doesn't equal happiness. Love is selflessness in the name of a promise, a promise to weather the storms even the ones of our own creation. It's an agreement to do the hard things and make the hard choices not because it's what we want or because it makes us happy, but because it's what must be done. H said he never understood what selfless love looked until he watched me carry on with my life and the girls life bending over backwards to make things stayed as "normal" and as stable for them as possible. And how he was so awful to me and yet I treated him with kindness and never gave up on him. This isn't the way I would've wanted him to learn how long term love works. If I could've chosen a different path for us I would've. But this is the one we took.

Not everyone had the wherewithal or the ability to be self sacrificing to make love last. H apparently isn't. Maybe he never was. But you cardinal, you have what it takes. Take comfort in knowing that all that your heart has been through you are a person who can weather the storms and make it for the long haul. That takes strength, courage, grace and and insurmountable faith in humanity. How beautiful of a soul you are because of that.

[DnJ]

Hello cardinal

Acceptance is pretty neat. Yes, there is still sadness and hurt; yet it is greatly diminished - accepted as it were.

Hope returns and endures, and morphs somewhat; less for what our spouse might do and more for who we can/will become. It’s such an interesting path to walk.

I agree, you do not want to feel nothing. Even indifference still has some feelings, although greatly attenuated. And indifference is not a permanent situation; like all feelings, it is temporary.

It hits me all over again: he doesn't love me. And then my reaction highlights the fact that we seem to be in very different places. I start questioning again--how can he move on so quickly? What if he never really loved me? But I felt it--I saw it. Then how can it just disappear? How can 17 years just be all in the past, no big deal? MLC or not, maybe the simple answer is he loved me once and just doesn't love me anymore. But how can that be? ...

And I'm stuck in this particular little circle. I can acknowledge the pain and sadness, that it's just there, alongside everything else. But it's also just so dang hard to love this person and enjoy his company now but see the contrast between how he interacts with me, how I interact with him, and how I feel inside.

We do get stuck in that wee circular path for a bit. And we all need a certain amount of understanding before we can let go.

I am going to pass on a few things, a few items for you and your beliefs. You are free to challenge them, not just blindly accept them. In fact, I encourage you to challenge them for that creates strong beliefs.

MLC is real. As unbelievable as MLC is, is the very crux of the problem - it is so unbelievable (at first). You, of course, have not used the word unbelievable in quite some time (so very well done by the way since our minds are always listening). You are working on rationalizing H’s irrational behaviour which is leading to so many questions and challenges of your observations and beliefs. Rationalizing is part of gaining that understanding we need and seek.

MLCers become opposite of who they once were. They are driven by such emotional pressures and torment they just run from everything - not to anything, from everything.

MLCers are emotionally stunted and need to grow up. They are stunted from the time of their trauma(s). For most, this is during their informative years, so they are emotionally rather immature, and compound that with the crisis level emotional problems they are running from. These lost souls have their emotions cranked to eleven and cannot handle anything or anyone else. They have no empathy. An emotionally troubled individual is unable to reach out, to feel, another person for they cannot understand their own feelings never mind another’s.

MLCers do not not love you. Their love is just buried and ran from along with everything else. During their slipping away into the abyss much is lost from them. They have incorrectly projected and blamed LBS, kids, pets, family for their unhappiness and throw us all away. To do such an act requires burying much under layers of false justifications. 17 years is no big deal to H because that’s the way it has to be. One cannot love or empathize when one doesn’t love themselves.

MLCers may not find their way back. Granted a few do. Their path is their’s and on their time. They must face what has been unfaceable and grow and heal from there.

cardinal, you have a strong emotional intelligence. This clearly shows in your empathetic views, your compassion, and your love. From my own experience, a lot of these questions regarding H’s love, you asking of yourself as well - that challenging of beliefs and values.

That notebook used to live in the living room, and shortly after BD I flipped through it and found a letter that he'd been writing to a friend before we were married, all about how well I understood him and how he was so happy to be with me. So that memory hurt. Then H showed me a funny drawing in it, that's all. It brought me right back to that time period, though, before we were M, to all that was then, and as soon as he left the room I was crying. It feels like he has no trouble bringing up stuff that happened in our past, like it's all a slightly fond, distant memory. Like since he's moved on completely, these memories or references are not fraught at all. Like he assumes I'm on the same page, fine with being friends and roommates and wanting nothing more. But for me, all these little references are kind of gutting, all the more because from what I see, they don't carry the same (any) emotional weight for him.

MLC is emotional time travel on steroids. Like your trip down memory lane triggered from the funny drawing, H is similarly taken to his younger self and those hidden torments. For H his destination is from a time and place before you were even in his life. This is the time he is mired in. Emotionally stunted adolescent.

The drawing had you recall the period of those days. The emotions, the connection, the feelings, the future you looked upon and the promise it held, and the sharp contrast to the present day. You are emotionally strong and healthy and can handle it appropriately, crying being a healthy response.

H recalls that period as well - somewhat. His is more a visitor, like you stated, more of a fond distant memory. Remember he is emotionally mired at a time years earlier. His responses, behaviours, and emotions are those of that young guy. And that young guy didn’t know you, nor have much life experience, nor experiences or feelings of being with you, and so on. It is quite amazing, and so very darn hard to accept, rationalize, and believe.

H has, and has not, moved on from these memories. He is emotionally running and keeping ahead of them. When he tires, when he is at rest, especially at night laying in bed in the dark, his demons come out to play and torment.

Running requires a lot of emotional investment in maintaining his fantasy reality. His lack of apparent emotional weight to stimulus and memory is real and not. He really cannot face that he might be wrong, so he portrays the facade you see. Fate and life’s events will continue to steer and alter his path, it is up to him when/if he will yield and look within.

MLC or not, maybe the simple answer is he loved me once and just doesn't love me anymore. But how can that be? ...

For what it’s worth, it is MLC, and it is not simple.

Beliefs and acceptance. Keep challenging and questioning for understanding and acceptance is a pursuit as much as a destination.

I've never had trouble finding love for H, even if some days I don't like him much, you know? Not in our M and not now. I know that is a strength of mine even though it hurts.

That is an excellent conviction to possess.

It is incredible how deep love actually goes, well beyond feelings, most definitely a belief.

Hope and love at first blush would appear to keep one stuck, when it is in fact the opposite. This counterintuitive path is a blessed one. Define yourself by strong inspiring beliefs.

D