I have been reading and reading this over and over trying to get a sense of what to do.
Here's my story.
Me (F 38) and Husband (M40) have been together 10 years married 8 years. (Children S7, S6 and S1.5years) Live in Sydney, Australia
We have had a troubling time since the start as a result of his abusive and controlling nature as well as his gambling and alcohol abuse. He attended therapy before we became engaged and I thought for the most part his issues were over. His gambling was one of the conditions I put on him that it would stop after I discovered he had gambled nearly 10k before we were engaged.
While we were married , when we fought he would frequently tell me he wanted out and finally I saved him the trouble and said I was going to leave. This was our first seperation. (2018)
Without realising it I was LRT and GAL'ing and he realised he did want to work on us and did everything he needed.I was reluctant but he put in the work I thought and for the sake of our children (two at that stage) I wanted to at least try. He went to IC, Abuse Group Therapy, stopped drinking and gambling. We attended MC for a year and we finally felt that everything was good. We became more committed to our faith, we had our third child, purchased a house, his business was doing well and for the most part we were happy together.
I did feel our "troubles" were creeping back this last 12 months.(2020) I guess this was bought on by Covid, his business, just the state of the world in general. I wanted to go to MC as a sort of check in but life just got in the way. We would make an appointment but had to cancel because kids were sick, covid19 meant the next appointment was delayed etc etc
Finally one day (Nov, 2020) I checked an account we had that we keep for business purposes and discovered he was gambling. I wasn't snooping on him I was actually checking my payments that I had organised and accidently discovered it. I had told him after our first seperation that I would'nt try again, I felt a little broken after it to be honest and told him if anything major was to happen or we fell into the same path I would just leave. So I really didnt know what to do as I found out about it in front of him. I asked that we discuss it after the children went to bed that evening.
I was fuming to say the least, the lying, the carelessness with the business funds, it was such a betrayal to me.
We had a fight about it, he seemed both sorry and not sorry for what he did. I think it was more he was sorry I found out rather than anything else. However he promised he would stop. I asked him to do whatever he thought he could/would be willing to do in order to restore my trust in him. He said he would try but nothing came of it.
Come December and a Xmas lunch party he attended for work become an all night event fuelled by drugs and alcohol. I was really upset as he was supposed to come home after the party to help me put together a video for his parents anniversary party that was to take place the next day. He apparently did not appreciate that I asked him to come home at a certain time and that set him off.
We fought and argued over the next two months about our marriage as he revealed to me his does not love me anymore.
I wasnt so much upset at that as more his unwillingness to work on our marriage. He agree to MC and then disagreed and agreed and we were on this roller coaster for a while until he decided mid Jan he was done.
Since then I have been trying to actively implement the LRT. I feel I have not been consistent however.
He has been like a roller coaster of emotions. Angry, mean, happy, excited. He is living life like a single man at the moment. I suspect he is using some of the business cash payments to fund his current lifestyle because he is not touching our joint account. Our children have picked up on this and are upset with him for not being around as much and getting angry with them.
After his last episode I told him the children are our only priority and I refuse to do anything to do with the D or even consider anything regarding our S until he calms the F@#$ down.
He now is behaving much better around us all. He even went so far as to tell me he is still very sexually attracted to me. I decided to take advantage of this and have slept with him twice in a week. But I am unsure whether this was wise or not.
I want to Reconcile. I am not discussing anything with him regarding this and each time he wants to discuss our current stitch I either refuse or simply hear him out, say ok and leave the room. But he is aware I do not want this seperation/divorce.
Here are my questions
1. We are seperated but living together, he is sleeping on the couch. He wanted to leave the house but I am concerned about the children, they still remember the first time we seperated and occasionally discuss how much it hurt them. I asked him to stay and he at first reluctantly agreed but now is happy to. Should I keep him at home or in the interests of speeding this along ask him to leave in order to LRT more effectively?
2. Should i continue to sleep with him? He has made it clear that his attraction is purely physical and nothing else. We are very compatible sexually. I have read on the forums here for a WAH that sexual/physical attraction is important. But I am not sure if he is cake eating or if I am being a doormat. Sex was an issue pre BD as I was always too tired when he initiated it. I am not feeling the same now as I have had some health issues rectified.
3. He is only minimally contributing to household chores/taking care of the children. However, he does keep telling me if i want to do something or take out some time to myself that he is more than happy to take the kids. Should i take him up on his offer and insist we have a plan for the week so we both do our fair share? This was an area of conflict pre BD as I felt he wasn't contributing equally. My motivation for doing this is so I can GAL more effectively and in the interests of showing him how much worse off he is as this will eat into his current bachelor style life he is leading.
4. Finances. He is a spender and I am saver and this has been an issue since we first met. My savings and assets have been used for us to be in the position we are currently in. However, i am concerned because should he leave the home, I will not be able to afford running the household expenses on my own. Should i request we create a budget ( we tried to pre BD however he never committed to it). Again, my motivation in doing so is to show him how much worse off we all would be should we actually divorce.
5. Mental health. He was never formally diagnosed but I have long believed he suffered from depression or some sort of issue. His current behaviour aligns with the descriptions on here of having a MLC. Lost weight, has a fitness regime, better dressed, was going to buy a new car, all about enjoying the now and getting out there and having fun. I don't think he is having an affair but again who knows? Does my thoughts on this change my approach or is LRT and GALing enough.
6. Finally I am taking the approach of the less said the better, I am not arguing with him or engaging with him in conflict. When things get "testy" between us because he is one of his moods I deny any face to face contact until he stops. he can only TM at those times. That seems to be working. However, I am concerned that he is misusing business funds and has twice now deliberately sold some cryptocurrency we had despite me asking him not to. Do i leave this for now? How do I go setting boundaries with him? Should I be setting boundaries or should I simply be standing back, detaching and worrying about myself? I have read some posts on here and I am confused. I have sort out legal advice regarding the business as it is in both of our names but my lawyer assured me that anything he does will only impact him.
Thank you all, really looking forward to your thoughts and advice.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. 2
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Why on earth would you want to reconcile with this man? His behaviour is so egregious that staying together ‘for the children’ is quite likely to harm them long-term.
It sounds like you married a bad boy (abuse, gambling, alcohol, drug-user) and expected him to change. I’m kinda with Scout that it’s probably be better for you and the kids to find a healthy partner and limit his custody/involvement with the children to 50% or less if his behavior and local laws allow for it.
Originally Posted by Michka
I was fuming to say the least, the lying, the carelessness with the business funds, it was such a betrayal to me. I felt a little broken after it to be honest and told him if anything major was to happen or we fell into the same path I would just leave. I asked him to do whatever he thought he could/would be willing to do in order to restore my trust in him.
You took it very personally that a man addicted to gambling.. gambled. I think part of your work—reconciling or not—will be accepting who he is. A scorpion stings, as Aesop’s fable tells us, even if he doesn’t want to. I’ve known people more or less happily married to a gambler or an a alcoholic. I think if you want a successful relationship, he can’t feel you’re going to treat it as a personal betrayal and/or leave every time he slips. He will slip up.
Four whammies (abuse, alcohol, gambling, drugs) seems like too many for a partner. Abuse alone is too many. From a “good of the kids” perspective, I suspect they’d be better off growing up with the story “We left your father because he was an abusive drunk” than “I kept an abusive drunk in your life so you could have both parents.” If you divorce, and work on yourself, you may even be able to show them healthy step-parents.
Originally Posted by Mitchka
Should i continue to sleep with him?
The easiest question—if you’re enjoying it, and no expectations, why not? Play safe if you’re unsure about OW. It’s okay to sleep with the bad boy (or crazy sexy lady). Just don’t bring them home.
Originally Posted by Mitchka
I am taking the approach of the less said the better
This is usually true. Words fueled by feelings, words they already know, words that apply pressure are usually best unsaid. “Hi!” is okay!
Originally Posted by Mitchka
am concerned that he is misusing business funds and has twice now deliberately sold some cryptocurrency we had despite me asking him not to. Do i leave this for now? I have sort out legal advice regarding the business as it is in both of our names but my lawyer assured me that anything he does will only impact him.
Boundaries should protect you, NOT try to control him. If you’re unsure about the lawyers opinion in terms of assets, ethics requirements, or business evaluation seek a second official opinion. Sometimes people talk to a friend whose specialty is different and that’s not enough. Consider also getting an accountant to assess your assets to ensure you aren’t missing other funds. The laws in my state in the US are likely very different than where you are so I completely defer to local legal/financial pros.
1. Should I keep him at home or in the interests of speeding this along ask him to leave in order to LRT more effectively?
I would consider which one is better for the children? Is his physical presence still providing some kind of normalcy to the family, or is his presence at home generating more negativity in the house?
Originally Posted by Michka
2. Should i continue to sleep with him?
No, especially you already suspect that he's cake-eating and you're feeling like you could be a doormat. Not sleeping with him would give you more clarity emotionally as well.
Originally Posted by Michka
3. Should i take him up on his offer and insist we have a plan for the week so we both do our fair share?
Yes. trust his actions not his words.
Originally Posted by Michka
4. Should i request we create a budget ( we tried to pre BD however he never committed to it). Again, my motivation in doing so is to show him how much worse off we all would be should we actually divorce.
I don't think he sounds like a man who would care about having a budget. I think you should open an account of your own and start saving for yourself in case something happens down the line.
Originally Posted by Michka
5. Does my thoughts on this change my approach or is LRT and GALing enough.
You can't diagnose him, so yes it really is - who knows?? You control what you can - yourself.
Originally Posted by Michka
6. Do i leave this for now? How do I go setting boundaries with him? Should I be setting boundaries or should I simply be standing back, detaching and worrying about myself? I have read some posts on here and I am confused. I have sort out legal advice regarding the business as it is in both of our names but my lawyer assured me that anything he does will only impact him.
Boundaries would be for yourself. Ex: "If you lie to me about money again, I will file for divorce." Again, you can't control his behavior. Take a good look at your finances and make sure you're protected.
and I also agree with scout. What about this man is keeping you in this M? What makes him loveable? Don't you agree that you deserve better? I'm sorry that you are here......but it is a long journey and it starts with discovering yourself.
1. Should I keep him at home or in the interests of speeding this along ask him to leave in order to LRT more effectively?
I would consider which one is better for the children? Is his physical presence still providing some kind of normalcy to the family, or is his presence at home generating more negativity in the house?
Initially yes it was generating more negatively but my detachment and insistence he sort himself out as well as his concerns for the kids (I think) sorted this out. It has been three weeks now of very "good" behaviour. If he or I have had a concern (bear in mind it has only been related to household matters or the children, I am refusing any discussion of our R) it has been done very well I feel.
2. Should i continue to sleep with him?
No, especially you already suspect that he's cake-eating and you're feeling like you could be a doormat. Not sleeping with him would give you more clarity emotionally as well.
I am taking this on a day by day basis. It seems for him it has actually bought him much closer to me. It was an issue pre BD as I had a low desire? for it. This was because of my health issues and just life in general. He did tell me at BD that the rejection was a huge issue for him.
3. Should i take him up on his offer and insist we have a plan for the week so we both do our fair share? [/quote] Yes. trust his actions not his words.
I spoke to him regarding this and will implement a weekly schedule. We designed one together, its just awaiting being typed up and stuck on the fridge.
Originally Posted by Michka
4. Should i request we create a budget ( we tried to pre BD however he never committed to it). Again, my motivation in doing so is to show him how much worse off we all would be should we actually divorce.
I don't think he sounds like a man who would care about having a budget. I think you should open an account of your own and start saving for yourself in case something happens down the line.
I am also in the process of obtaining a second job. He was not happy that I am doing this but financial security is very important to me.
Originally Posted by Michka
5. Does my thoughts on this change my approach or is LRT and GALing enough.
You can't diagnose him, so yes it really is - who knows?? You control what you can - yourself.
This i have been really trying to do. I feel much better for it and I think he has responded positively to it at this stage. I am glad we are not fighting (although very aware that is because i have been very strict with my interactions with him and not engaging with him)
6. Do i leave this for now? How do I go setting boundaries with him? Should I be setting boundaries or should I simply be standing back, detaching and worrying about myself? I have read some posts on here and I am confused. I have sort out legal advice regarding the business as it is in both of our names but my lawyer assured me that anything he does will only impact him. [/quote] Boundaries would be for yourself. Ex: "If you lie to me about money again, I will file for divorce." Again, you can't control his behavior. Take a good look at your finances and make sure you're protected.
I have contacted the banks, my lawyer and our accountant. Except for the business earnings, I am covered.
and I also agree with scout. What about this man is keeping you in this M? What makes him loveable? Don't you agree that you deserve better? I'm sorry that you are here......but it is a long journey and it starts with discovering yourself.
I think I wrote the post focusing on the worst of him. This is not me defending him but rather, having read over it now and seeing peoples responses I may not have been as fair in my post as I should have been.
The issues he has with his abusiveness have been resolved. It was never physical or sexual. It was mainly him trying to control me and fights would ensue because I never allowed it. This only really started when we had kids. He did have anger issues pre engagement/marriage but he did seek help and that wasn't completely resolved until our first seperation. I think in hindsight we/he did not get the right support or advice from counsellors we saw. It wasnt until we seperated that we saw an amazing counsellor that he developed a great rapport with and she was able to support us throughout the process in a way that really helped.
The alcohol (other than that xmas party, he has not been drunk nor has it caused an issue for us since 2018 when we first seperated. This is the first time gambling has been an issue in nearly ten years.
I appreciate upon reading it again, that it seems like I am in a terrible situation but I have always felt that it was able to be fixed. However this time around I am very conscious of what I can and cannot do. trying to detach has really helped.
It sounds like you married a bad boy (abuse, gambling, alcohol, drug-user) and expected him to change. I’m kinda with Scout that it’s probably be better for you and the kids to find a healthy partner and limit his custody/involvement with the children to 50% or less if his behavior and local laws allow for it.
If you read my other replies, I feel that I did not articulate them well. Not quite the bad boy and I have never been concerned with his ability to father or his relationship with his children.
Originally Posted by Michka
I was fuming to say the least, the lying, the carelessness with the business funds, it was such a betrayal to me. I felt a little broken after it to be honest and told him if anything major was to happen or we fell into the same path I would just leave. I asked him to do whatever he thought he could/would be willing to do in order to restore my trust in him.
You took it very personally that a man addicted to gambling.. gambled. I think part of your work—reconciling or not—will be accepting who he is. A scorpion stings, as Aesop’s fable tells us, even if he doesn’t want to. I’ve known people more or less happily married to a gambler or an a alcoholic. I think if you want a successful relationship, he can’t feel you’re going to treat it as a personal betrayal and/or leave every time he slips. He will slip up.
This is something which I am slowly starting to appreciate. If and I know its a big if, we stay together, I may have to accept this. I guess the problem for me is I have huge issues with it having had a family member suicide from gambling as well as my father being the "spender" in my parents relationship. Financial security is important to me.
Four whammies (abuse, alcohol, gambling, drugs) seems like too many for a partner. Abuse alone is too many. From a “good of the kids” perspective, I suspect they’d be better off growing up with the story “We left your father because he was an abusive drunk” than “I kept an abusive drunk in your life so you could have both parents.” If you divorce, and work on yourself, you may even be able to show them healthy step-parents.
He has never been drunk in front of the kids ( he would generally get drunk outside of the house, come home and we would fight. But this has only occured once since 2018), nor has been anything less than a great dad. Not perfect, but I have never been concerned about it. Our issues have always been between us and they have for the most part been shielded from this.
Originally Posted by Mitchka
Should i continue to sleep with him?
The easiest question—if you’re enjoying it, and no expectations, why not? Play safe if you’re unsure about OW. It’s okay to sleep with the bad boy (or crazy sexy lady). Just don’t bring them home.
I have been, to be honest it has taken him by surprise and I think has greatly contributed to the pleasentness between us.
Originally Posted by Mitchka
I am taking the approach of the less said the better
This is usually true. Words fueled by feelings, words they already know, words that apply pressure are usually best unsaid. “Hi!” is okay!
Its been SO hard for me but the benefits occured almost instantly so I have been greatly motivated to continue.
Originally Posted by Mitchka
am concerned that he is misusing business funds and has twice now deliberately sold some cryptocurrency we had despite me asking him not to. Do i leave this for now? I have sort out legal advice regarding the business as it is in both of our names but my lawyer assured me that anything he does will only impact him.
Boundaries should protect you, NOT try to control him. If you’re unsure about the lawyers opinion in terms of assets, ethics requirements, or business evaluation seek a second official opinion. Sometimes people talk to a friend whose specialty is different and that’s not enough. Consider also getting an accountant to assess your assets to ensure you aren’t missing other funds. The laws in my state in the US are likely very different than where you are so I completely defer to local legal/financial pros.
I think this is best definition of what a boundary is. I have spoken to our accountant (she is my friend so I have her support. My lawyer does specialise in businesses so I am happy with his advice and I have contacted the banks to ensure no large withdrawals can take place without my permission.
1. We are seperated but living together, he is sleeping on the couch. He wanted to leave the house but I am concerned about the children, they still remember the first time we seperated and occasionally discuss how much it hurt them. I asked him to stay and he at first reluctantly agreed but now is happy to. Should I keep him at home or in the interests of speeding this along ask him to leave in order to LRT more effectively?
I find that most LBSs, and especially LBWs, that want to do IHS for the "kids" are actually doing it deep down for themselves. Be honest with yourself about this. Are you really wanting him there for the kids or for you? Also, doing things for the sake of the kids is rarely the best thing to do. Right now what your kids are being taught about relationships is that it is okay for married people to be cold, distant and sleep separately. Oh except when they want some nookie. As my favorite bald Texan TV psychologist says: "Kids would rather be from a broken home than in a broken home."
Asking him to leave would send a strong message that you aren't settling for half a husband.
Originally Posted by Michka
2. Should i continue to sleep with him? He has made it clear that his attraction is purely physical and nothing else. We are very compatible sexually. I have read on the forums here for a WAH that sexual/physical attraction is important. But I am not sure if he is cake eating or if I am being a doormat. Sex was an issue pre BD as I was always too tired when he initiated it. I am not feeling the same now as I have had some health issues rectified.
So this guy gets to act and behave anyway he wants, act like a single guy....but then come get into your bed and have his way with your body? THIS IS CAKE EATING. Completely and totally. It sounds like deep down (be honest) that you are using sex to try to get him to recommit. Your brain says you know it is just sex and physical, but deep down your heart thinks that a way to a man's heart is through sex.
This is up to you, but you have to decide if you want him in 100%, in 50% or not at all. Because what he is doing irght now is living a single life with the benefits of being married. That is a man's dream! But it will not get you to reconciliation.
Originally Posted by Michka
3. He is only minimally contributing to household chores/taking care of the children. However, he does keep telling me if i want to do something or take out some time to myself that he is more than happy to take the kids. Should i take him up on his offer and insist we have a plan for the week so we both do our fair share? This was an area of conflict pre BD as I felt he wasn't contributing equally. My motivation for doing this is so I can GAL more effectively and in the interests of showing him how much worse off he is as this will eat into his current bachelor style life he is leading.
So he has free child care, a maid, and a sex slave. (See my point above about a man's dream!)
Get a childcare plan in in place. Stop doing his laundry. Let him be on his own for meals. Stop the sex. Take away his cake. When he gets angry, upset, belligerent, etc, calmly tell him that you refuse to be in a MR with someone with one foot in and one foot out.
Originally Posted by Michka
4. Finances. He is a spender and I am saver and this has been an issue since we first met. My savings and assets have been used for us to be in the position we are currently in. However, i am concerned because should he leave the home, I will not be able to afford running the household expenses on my own. Should i request we create a budget ( we tried to pre BD however he never committed to it). Again, my motivation in doing so is to show him how much worse off we all would be should we actually divorce.
Drop that last reason. The reason that you get a financial plan is place it to protect yourself and your kids. If you get a D, he will be on the hook for support for a long time. He knows this. This is exactly why a lot of WAHs in particular drag their feet on D. Have you talked to a lawyer? I would highly suggest talking to one. You can usually get a free consult, but regardless there are legalities to all of this and you need a legal expert.
Originally Posted by Michka
5. Mental health. He was never formally diagnosed but I have long believed he suffered from depression or some sort of issue. His current behaviour aligns with the descriptions on here of having a MLC. Lost weight, has a fitness regime, better dressed, was going to buy a new car, all about enjoying the now and getting out there and having fun. I don't think he is having an affair but again who knows? Does my thoughts on this change my approach or is LRT and GALing enough.
No this changes do nothing you should be doing. MLC, new outlook on life, new woman in his life, your goal is the same: prepare for the worst (hope for the best), GAL, 180 (get yourself into IC, you have no control over him but you do over you!), and work on detachment! You need to get to a place emotionally where nothing he says or does causes you to have an emotional reaction. It take time and effort to get there.
Originally Posted by Michka
6. Finally I am taking the approach of the less said the better, I am not arguing with him or engaging with him in conflict. When things get "testy" between us because he is one of his moods I deny any face to face contact until he stops. he can only TM at those times. That seems to be working. However, I am concerned that he is misusing business funds and has twice now deliberately sold some cryptocurrency we had despite me asking him not to. Do i leave this for now? How do I go setting boundaries with him? Should I be setting boundaries or should I simply be standing back, detaching and worrying about myself? I have read some posts on here and I am confused. I have sort out legal advice regarding the business as it is in both of our names but my lawyer assured me that anything he does will only impact him.
Get a lawyer. Financial concerns are legal concerns. Don't get advice, get representation (see my comments above). Oh so you have a lawyer, good. Assume you are going to D, and make sure you are legally covered.
Michka, I can tell that you desperately want to save this. He knows that. Your best path forward is to embrace that you two are splitting up and act accordingly. Everything you are doing is to save the MR, and he sees that. He has you right where he wants you. Desperation is as attractive as pig rolling in the mire. Stop being deperate and start moving forward. He will either move with you, or he won't, you have no control over that.
Sorry you are dealing with all of this, but your best path forward is to stop trying to save the MR. Read this post:
