One foot in front of the other

[Elbereth]

H has been staying at another place this past month. I just found out he’s coming back to stay at the house for the week. This I’ll be the first I’ve been around him more than 5 minutes since the love letter episode. I’m not really sure how I feel about it. It’s cheaper financially and it gives him more time with our son. But I don’t want him to feel too comfortable like it’s cake eating either. I do plan to get out of the house as much as I can during the week.

But also hoping I can use this time to get the agreement finalized. But it also might be when he serves me D papers as he mentioned legal stuff coming. But it wasn’t clear if it’s just his comments to the agreement. I’ve been in the dumps lately so it’s time I fake it till I make it and be happy and GALing as much as possible this week. I definitely need to snap out of this funk I’ve been in.

Any suggestions? Should I avoid time with him like walks etc? Should I try to be in other rooms, etc? Our last convo was how I don’t want to be ‘friends’ but I don’t want to be enemies either, especially with son here and upcoming D process.

Feeling a bit out of sorts about it.

[DnJ]

Hello El

I appreciated your visit on my thread and have finally caught up on your’s.

I feel strongly that he is in a MLC and things with his OW will not last, but I have to protect myself in case he never snaps out of this new personality he is now. I've decided I can't be with this man who is currently showing this lack of character, integrity and with this level of selfishness.

Whether it is MLC or not, your actions are similar. Detach, focus on you, let go, find indifference, find yourself, strengthen your core values, unwind indifference, understand, empathize, accept, and forgive. (Just a brief summary. )

MLC has some signposts which set it apart from other spousal personality issues and cheating. Confusion is a big one. As well as a profound consuming depression.

The depression is usually hidden deep within the MLCer. Most do not lift their veil or facade to let anyone, including themselves, see the hurt, pain, and torment from long ago buried trauma(s).

These people are in an emotional crisis, the cause of which happened long before we ever came upon the scene. Their path and pain has nothing to do with us. The MLCer is completely ruled and driven by their emotions. Everything is based upon their emotions. Everything.

They are running from themselves, and don’t realize it. They project their pain upon us, the loving spouse. They blame us. They justify wildly. Their path is irrational. Nothing you say or do will alter it. At best your efforts will be neutral; more likely they would just prolong the MLCer’s journey.

Understand they are driven to run. They cannot handle what they are feeling. Something was buried when they were young and it emotionally stunted them, and they need to face it and grow up from there. Things buried alive always come back to haunt.

The running is the longest stage and our first real in our face look at their new life. Bomb drop is the start for the LBS; the MLCer’s slipping away started silently, 18-24 months earlier. The MLCer becomes the opposite of who they once were. They are driven to regain their lost youth, and in the process become lost souls.

MLC is a horrible painful existence. It is staggering how many turn to affairs, drugs, illicit or illegal actives, spend enormous sums of money, and many other such traits. Most become terrible parents. They absolutely believe their crafted narrative, and will expend incredible amounts of energies to maintain their fantasy reality. There is a commonality among those in an emotional crisis. No two are the same, yet there is plenty of overlap.

MLC lasts many years. I sincerely hope that your H is not in MLC. Unfortunately, his behaviour seems to fit. This is not an easy path for the LBS, and the path for the MLCer I would not curse upon anyone.

Their awakening is not guaranteed. If it does happen it will not be a snap out of the personality they now exhibit. It will be a quiet scared whisper of doubt. A doubt of their very existence. Their crafted reality tumbles to sand as they scramble in a futile effort in continual rebuilding and refortifying. They run from themselves.

The LBS gives time and space, for those will taken regardless. We step aside, for anyone; kids, parents, friends, family, clergy, anyone; blocking a MLCer’s path will be mowed down. With the LBS out of the MLCer’s picture, hopefully they start to realize that they are still unhappy and that we haven’t been involved for quite sometime...so maybe my unhappiness isn’t my spouse’s fault. And then they turn their attention inward. Stop running and grow. As I said, hopefully.

There is still a part of me that wants to be the lighthouse and stand for him, but there is other parts of my heart and brain that are telling me that is not what I should do. How do I know if it's worth doing? How do you tell the MLCer apart from the person you married, and if they have changed for good? Or if it was all a mirage in the first place and maybe they were never the person you thought they were? If I move on post divorce with finding someone new, how do I know I won't pick a bad apple again? How do I trust my judgement? So much was hidden from me, so how can I be sure the next time? These are the thoughts and fears that I am dealing with lately.

Asking questions is common and healthy. We all need a certain amount of understanding to detach and let go. This is a very counterintuitive process, especially with a MLCer.

Everything you do - do it for you. Not to win back H. Not to punish, nor coerce, not to manipulate their path.

Become a lighthouse for yourself. Stand for you. I’ve spoken plenty about these tenets on my threads. We find our values and convictions. We strengthen those which serve us, craft those which we aspire to, and alter or discard those which serve us not.

Please do not fret over the lack of answers to you questions. You are starting out, stay the course. Be patient answers are coming, they are counterintuitive, and I guarantee you will be amazed at what you discover.

I'm sure he will use this same excuse about work to postpone signing the agreement too. I'm expecting it.

Do be careful with expectations. Unmet expectations turn to resentments. A MLCer will not met expectations - ever. Keep your expectations at zero.

Hope is ok. Hope is timeless. An expectation is hope with a deadline or timeframe. A deadline does just that - kills hope, and turns it into an expectation.

You mentioned a deadline of one year that you’d stand. Please do remove that constriction. You have no foretelling nor schedule of your healing, you may require more time. H will require more. A future reconciliation would definitely require more.

I am at 3 years six months. My XW is still lost. She blew up her life at Thanksgiving. Threw the kids away, like they were old clothes, right there at the dinner table, and ran off with OM. Right after eating the pumpkin pie, there was bomb drop in front of my parents and kids. In three hours XW left with OM, I suddenly lived alone, me and my kids were abandoned, and I become a single Dad with sole custody. None of us saw it coming.

My loving wife was gone, and today is still a very lost soul. You’d be amazed at the woman and Mom she was. MLC is a horrible torment which consumes.

Maybe I'm just sad as I'm passed the denial stage and I'm just sad and confused by how bad of a person he is right now. I don't know. I believed in him so much (as a person with integrity). I feel I wasted ten years of my life on a lie. Sort of makes me anxious to get it all over with so I can be free to move forward. I know I will be fine. I know I can make a future for myself and it will be a good one. But I'm still sad that the future I thought I had was snatched away from me in such a cruel and deceitful way.

(((Hugs)))

The stages of grief. Denial is the first stage. Everything else is nonlinear. We will traverse our grief as we need to. We will repeat certain stages a few times.

Denial is a necessary protective mechanism of our mind. It blocks that which would destroy us until we are able to start to process it. That initial shock and zombie-like feeling is us in denial. Whatever we are denying is just that, denied from our conscious self.

Anger, depression, bargaining all happen in various orders for various parts and pieces of your loss as they are revealed to your mind. Your sad and confused current state is perfectly fine and normal.

The stages of grief lead to acceptance, which is basically emotional understanding. At that point one is no longer depressed, or angry, or sad, or attempting to return their life to normal. They accept.

A word on emotions and feelings.

Feelings are real. Feeling are temporary. I know and empathize on how “forever” they feel. Have faith. Feeling are fleeting when they are not reinforced.

An example of the fleeting-ness of feelings:

Smile. Right now.

See how you feel happier.

Now frown. Furl your brow. Really push your lips down.

See how you instantly changed from happy to upset.

Feelings are fleeting!

And are easily influenced by thoughts and actions, especially those of our spouse. That is why detachment is the single best thing you can do. Find detachment and let go. For if you don’t you will be dragged around.

Do not make decisions based upon feelings. Feelings change, and then so does the reason for the decision. Utilize logic and reason.

Further down your path, after ensuring your beliefs and values are those that you want, follow your values. Beliefs are slow to change and make excellent headings in concert with logical reasoning. However, for the moment, your values are a bit skewed - as counterintuitive or untrue as that feels. Have faith in the path, and the kind and compassionate folks who have walked before.

Any suggestions? Should I avoid time with him like walks etc? Should I try to be in other rooms, etc? Our last convo was how I don’t want to be ‘friends’ but I don’t want to be enemies either, especially with son here and upcoming D process.

Feeling a bit out of sorts about it.

It’s perfectly fine to feel out of sorts. Those are feelings, they are real, remember to treat them as such.

When you interact with H be kind and cordial. Friendly not friends. For you are not friends. My friends do not treat me that way.

I know. Kind of goes against the grain doesn’t it? Counterintuitive. It will feel wrong. That is your beliefs. It is going to take time for them to catch up to current events. You deep inside believe in the old H - perfectly normal and fine. Now, you work towards compassion and understanding while altering your core views to the new reality. This is part of finding acceptance.

I believe your H is within MLC, as such my suggestions speak to that. And to note, all mine and everyone’s suggestions have you in the fore. You my dear are the most important person in all of this.

El, H is with another woman. Yes, avoid going on walks with him. Do not remain in the same room. He is not living there. He is just visiting, and he is not a friend. I understand and empathize with the fact that you cannot prevent him entering the house. Do not be disrespected. Place boundaries when required.

I get it, you do not want to be enemies. H will not listen and will define you as he “needs” to. He will make you the enemy if he requires that. He is literally driven to run and you are going to get the blame. It is not fair. Not at all.

Also realize he will define you as friend if that suits his emotional need. Stick to your path. Your forearmed thoughts and questions are good and will help you see clearly.

Believe nothing he says and only half of what he does.

You cannot fix him, for you did not break him.

D

[ovrrnbw]

H has been staying at another place this past month. I just found out he’s coming back to stay at the house for the week. This I’ll be the first I’ve been around him more than 5 minutes since the love letter episode. I’m not really sure how I feel about it. It’s cheaper financially and it gives him more time with our son. But I don’t want him to feel too comfortable like it’s cake eating either. I do plan to get out of the house as much as I can during the week.

But also hoping I can use this time to get the agreement finalized. But it also might be when he serves me D papers as he mentioned legal stuff coming. But it wasn’t clear if it’s just his comments to the agreement. I’ve been in the dumps lately so it’s time I fake it till I make it and be happy and GALing as much as possible this week. I definitely need to snap out of this funk I’ve been in.

Any suggestions? Should I avoid time with him like walks etc? Should I try to be in other rooms, etc? Our last convo was how I don’t want to be ‘friends’ but I don’t want to be enemies either, especially with son here and upcoming D process.

Feeling a bit out of sorts about it.

Hi El,

I know that him coming back, even if just for a week, can add pressure. Add in the fact that he may or may not serve you and you're probably halfway to the nut house. Your best remedy is to let go of that and focus your mental energy into something productive. Remember, everything is a matter of judgment. You can take this positively or negatively and to whatever degree you choose.

If you can find some activity, work, house project, social life, etc (not sure how things are near you) that would be great! I would be getting out of the house as well. If nothing else, take a book to a park and hang out. That was one of my go-to's and my W often wanted to know where I had been. Reread the detachment and validation threads every day this week and you will be well on your way to the "not friends but not enemies" position that you seek.

[Traveler]

Hi Elbereth,

Wow--that doesn't sound fun. Who are they to you now? To me, he sounds like someone renting a room in the same house. The last time I was in that situation, I think I said "Hi!" or "Goodnight!" when appropriate, once shared my laundry detergent, and once borrowed his dish detergent. If that's your view, I would set boundaries on where he sleeps (not next to you), whether you cook for him (no), whether you do his laundry (no), etc. You are no longer partners, and he's not acting remotely like a friend. Being busy or away sounds good. None of this precludes being friendly! I was friendly with that renter. If it gets intolerable, don't forget the safety valve of staying at a hotel (shared assets!) with your son.

[Sage4]

Hi Elbereth,

First of all, can I say how sorry I am that you are here? But as they all say, this is a supportive place to be while you navigate this process.

My heart goes out to you in anticipation of H's return to the house. Live-in separation was the hardest thing I think I have ever endured, but it lasted months for me and my H did a lot of spewing and monstering. DnJ, CW and Over gave you some fantastic advice. I have a few thoughts to add about your upcoming week and in no particular order:

- Give yourself grace, lots of it. (Whether or not you 'snap out of the funk', you still give yourself grace. You're going through SO much right now.)

- Get out of the house as much as possible. Go for daily walks (runs, yoga, whatever endorphin-increasing activity you can). I like the idea of taking a book to the park. I believe we are in the same region and the weather looks to be pretty nice for a while, can you go hiking this week?

- Have your support network on speed dial. This isn't the week to think 'I don't want to bother people with my drama'. People who love you want to support you, don't be afraid to reach out.

- As hard (and I mean HARD) it is, don't engage in any R talks. You will never feel better afterwards no matter what was discussed.

- Don't overthink your actions and interactions with H. Nothing you do or don't do in this week is going to dramatically change the short term outcome of your situation (if H is truly in a MLC). Being true to yourself is going to make YOU feel better.

People would tell me 'you won't feel this way forever, things will get easier' and intellectually I could somewhat wrap my mind around it, but emotionally I thought there was no way I would EVER feel OK again. But guess what? They were right. Which is why I go back to giving yourself grace right now. You WILL be OK. But during the moments when you are not, that's OK too. It is all part of the process.

(((El)))

[Elbereth]

Thank you for your words DnJ, ovrrnbw, CWarrior, and Sage4,

Their awakening is not guaranteed. If it does happen it will not be a snap out of the personality they now exhibit. It will be a quiet scared whisper of doubt. A doubt of their very existence. Their crafted reality tumbles to sand as they scramble in a futile effort in continual rebuilding and refortifying. They run from themselves.

And are easily influenced by thoughts and actions, especially those of our spouse. That is why detachment is the single best thing you can do. Find detachment and let go. For if you don’t you will be dragged around.

Do not make decisions based upon feelings. Feelings change, and then so does the reason for the decision. Utilize logic and reason.

Further down your path, after ensuring your beliefs and values are those that you want, follow your values. Beliefs are slow to change and make excellent headings in concert with logical reasoning. However, for the moment, your values are a bit skewed - as counterintuitive or untrue as that feels. Have faith in the path, and the kind and compassionate folks who have walked before.

These things I am beginning to accept and are some of the reasons I feel I can move towards D even if doing so goes against my values of doing everything I can for my MR (my principles of taking vows seriously). But I can't protect myself or work through our problems (or his affair) if my H is in La La land and I have no idea if he will ever snap out of it. Logic tells me I have to protect myself.

El, H is with another woman. Yes, avoid going on walks with him. Do not remain in the same room. He is not living there. He is just visiting, and he is not a friend. I understand and empathize with the fact that you cannot prevent him entering the house. Do not be disrespected. Place boundaries when required.

I get it, you do not want to be enemies. H will not listen and will define you as he “needs” to. He will make you the enemy if he requires that. He is literally driven to run and you are going to get the blame. It is not fair. Not at all.

Also realize he will define you as friend if that suits his emotional need. Stick to your path. Your forearmed thoughts and questions are good and will help you see clearly.

Believe nothing he says and only half of what he does.

You cannot fix him, for you did not break him.

This helps. He arrived later this evening and mostly we've been in seperate rooms. Seems he wants to avoid me as much as I do him, so that is how this evening went by. We were cordial towards each other, and it feels strange to be avoiding him, but I'm trying to just move through the awkwardness of it all.

If you can find some activity, work, house project, social life, etc (not sure how things are near you) that would be great! I would be getting out of the house as well. If nothing else, take a book to a park and hang out. That was one of my go-to's and my W often wanted to know where I had been. Reread the detachment and validation threads every day this week and you will be well on your way to the "not friends but not enemies" position that you seek.

Thank you for the suggestions. I do have a place to go to after dark as well, so I may do that in the evenings after work. And I did reread those threads based on your suggestion and even screen-grabbed them for reference. Thanks for that reminder!

Wow--that doesn't sound fun. Who are they to you now? To me, he sounds like someone renting a room in the same house. The last time I was in that situation, I think I said "Hi!" or "Goodnight!" when appropriate, once shared my laundry detergent, and once borrowed his dish detergent. If that's your view, I would set boundaries on where he sleeps (not next to you), whether you cook for him (no), whether you do his laundry (no), etc. You are no longer partners, and he's not acting remotely like a friend. Being busy or away sounds good. None of this precludes being friendly! I was friendly with that renter. If it gets intolerable, don't forget the safety valve of staying at a hotel (shared assets!) with your son.

He is sleeping in the basement, so no, not next to me. I did make dinner as I am cooking already for my son, but I also took his offer for him to cook twice this week as well. The rest is going to be up to him, but when he has been here, he's been actually more helpful and such then he had been in the months before he moved out. Our son, I'm sure, is happy he is here so I don't see us heading to a hotel, but I do have options to sleep elsewhere if needed. And ways to escape his presence as needed.

- Give yourself grace, lots of it. (Whether or not you 'snap out of the funk', you still give yourself grace. You're going through SO much right now.)

- Get out of the house as much as possible. Go for daily walks (runs, yoga, whatever endorphin-increasing activity you can). I like the idea of taking a book to the park. I believe we are in the same region and the weather looks to be pretty nice for a while, can you go hiking this week?

- Have your support network on speed dial. This isn't the week to think 'I don't want to bother people with my drama'. People who love you want to support you, don't be afraid to reach out.

- As hard (and I mean HARD) it is, don't engage in any R talks. You will never feel better afterwards no matter what was discussed.

- Don't overthink your actions and interactions with H. Nothing you do or don't do in this week is going to dramatically change the short term outcome of your situation (if H is truly in a MLC). Being true to yourself is going to make YOU feel better.

Thank you Sage for this additional advice. I do feel I have been giving myself grace knowing that I am going through a lot and ignoring it won't help me...so I have been trying to move through the discomfort and sadness as well. And I've gone on walks almost daily (and yes, we've had some nice weather in general between the rainy days) so that has helped. I do worry about R talks as I have a strong feeling he is serving me D papers this week (and there is an agreement I asked him to review as well), so there will probably need to be some words around that. I'm hoping I can just say "I'm too emotional to discuss this right now, so let me absorb it and discuss it with you later", which will also give me time to review anything I get with my L. In general, most of the convos that have come up are H's bringing up wanting to move forward with the D (other than the love note episode), so there has been minimal discussion.

All in all, I've read bits and pieces of all your sitch's so having your words of wisdom on my thread are so appreciated. I do have a small and loving support system, but honestly, no one in my life has experienced anything like this. So, even though I feel love and support from them, I find the advice or responses from most of them extremely frustrating...and I often feel like I have to defend my feelings or actions to them. So this forum, and the books I've been reading, (as well as counseling and the marriage program I did) have helped me the most.

Thank you all... I feel more prepared to deal with this coming week.

[DnJ]

Good Morning El

I’m glad the evening went well with H around.

Watch out for your expectations. You expect H to drop divorce paper work on you. This will lead you to worrying when the other shoe is going to drop. Expectations affects how one behaves. That which we focus upon becomes bigger.

Our subtle subconscious behaviours affects others and sometimes we unwittingly promote that which we do not want by the very fretting over it. Be your kind and cordial self. Make those suppers, and enjoy H’s cooking. Tell him you like it, give feedback. Stay in roommate mode.

These things I am beginning to accept and are some of the reasons I feel I can move towards D even if doing so goes against my values of doing everything I can for my MR (my principles of taking vows seriously). But I can't protect myself or work through our problems (or his affair) if my H is in La La land and I have no idea if he will ever snap out of it. Logic tells me I have to protect myself.

Divorce does seem to be at odds with our principles, doesn’t it? Vows are serious stuff.

Consider this. H is supposedly actively working towards a divorce. You are responding.

Let H do the heavy lifting. You do not; for you really cannot prevent; block his path and you do not need be too helpful.

If you need financial protection or security than do so. This is a business deal gone sideways. Treat it as such. Logically, well thought out, and sans emotion. You can, and will, cry and scream about things later not during D negotiations and proceedings. And that is only if it gets that far, which is currently being pushed by H.

Something I found helpful was being accurate in thought and heart. The former we have direct control over, the later being influenced. Be accurate in your thoughts and clarity of situation.

But I can't protect myself or work through our problems (or his affair) if my H is in La La land and I have no idea if he will ever snap out of it.

Be careful with the language you use. Very few things are “can’t”, it is mostly “won’t”. DnJ “can’t” get pregnant. That is accurate. Lol

Our minds are always listening and absorbing. Your mind makes your reality. If you say you can’t do something - your mind will make it so. You can protect yourself while H is in La La land. It is more that you “won’t”.

Now, that is not a bad thing. Perhaps you do not need financial protection at the moment. That’s ok. Be accurate and clear. You have choice and options. Thinking you “can’t” leaves you powerless and adrift. You are not! You “can”, and at the moment you are choosing not to exercise that option. If/when you decide different, you “will” do it.

Can’t vs won’t. Can vs will. Do vs try. By the way “try” predisposed one to fail. It sets up our mind to allow or seek either completion or failure as validate outcomes. “Do” is much better than “try”. True, one may still not succeed, however the rate of success is much higher when one goes into things with a successful “doing” outlook.

I do worry about R talks as I have a strong feeling he is serving me D papers this week (and there is an agreement I asked him to review as well), so there will probably need to be some words around that. I'm hoping I can just say "I'm too emotional to discuss this right now, so let me absorb it and discuss it with you later", which will also give me time to review anything I get with my L.

Feelings. Do not make decisions based upon them.

If H does serve you papers - fine. Just put them in a pile and look at them after he is gone. Treat them like they are - papers. Shrug. No one get divorced in a day. You have plenty of time, and do not need to rush. If he does surprise you with paperwork, read them later and take them to your lawyer for discussion. You cannot control him, only yourself. You control your thoughts, actions, and reactions.

I do like your proposed response. You could even shorten that up some more for H; for yourself yes that is very true and accurate - good job speaking to your mind.

If H gives you paperwork. “Oh. Divorce paperwork? Thanks H”. Then put them unopened on your desk of counter or whatever. Actions speak so much louder than words.

I know how cr@ppy this all feels. How much it hurts. (((Hugs)))

Stay strong. You are doing fine.

D

[Elbereth]

Thanks for the above. Good reminders of the fine differences in feeling and thinking and acting. I like your points a lot. They make sense and feel less 'victim' and more able minded.

Well, I didn't do well with avoiding R talk. H seems confused for the need for the agreement about funds he's spent and in trying to clarify, we got into things a bit. It's surprising that he feels so justified in his behavior and how being separated is supposed to be for me (somehow supposed to protect me from being hurt any more) when I don't want to fund him having another life outside of our MR. H tries to tell me that he will be fair and honest to me, and I had to point out that I don't trust a thing he tells me. He does want to just file D he says. I tried not to get too deep into it. It wasn't a screaming match, but it was more than I wanted to discuss. I did feel very detached. So maybe that is progress.

El

[DnJ]

Hi El

Oh, I like less victim and more able minded. I can totally see myself using that phrase.

H seems confused for the need for the agreement about funds he's spent

Of course he did. Lol.

He has the attention span of a gnat right now. He is off in La La Land running around with fairies and unicorns. Things like bills and money and fair equitable splitting of martial asset and bank accounts is not on his radar.

he feels so justified in his behavior and how being separated is supposed to be for me (somehow supposed to protect me from being hurt any more)

Yep. Part of the script they tell us. And sadly, and more importantly, they tell themselves. They actually believe it! Remember emotional crisis; H needs to believe it. Otherwise he leaving a great gal and family for ... what again... yeah that would be hard to face. Hence the running is multi-fold.

He would love it if you would just go along with his narrative. Do not fall for it! Protect yourself. Know your rights. Ensure you see a L and ask lots of questions. See what you are entitled to, what the default outcome is (the worst case), what the likely outcome is, what rights and monies you can waive, what rights you cannot waive, what you are willingly to wave or negotiate away, and what you are willing to fight tooth and nail for.

H tries to tell me that he will be fair and honest to me, and I had to point out that I don't trust a thing he tells me.

Good do not believe him.

Actions vs words. Have his actions been honourable? Then how likely is it that he will follow through with what he says. Besides, he might have actually meant it when he said it, however everything is emotionally based for him and his feelings will flit away and so will his commitment to that promise (vow).

They will promise and swear on the souls of their children that there is no affair or cheating - and then get caught. Believe nothing they say, and only half of what they do.

But.... listen to what he says. A person in emotional turmoil can’t help themselves and they drop lots of clues. They are rather smug and feel good about themselves taking charge of their life and feel that nothing will ever go wrong, and they get quite flippant and open about content they probably should not speak about. This doesn’t last for too long, but while it does if you remain quiet and non confrontational they will spill the beans. They really cannot help themselves. (Caveat, this is not true for those that are very angry and start off that way. Your H is calmer; heck he is currently visiting you. Say nothing. No pressure.)

My XW would come back from her L and tell me about her meeting. It was so bizarre. Here she is working to divorce me and she is seeking my input and complaining to me about her L and the financial planners he made her see, the psychologist, the doctor, and such.

Remember the two main hallmarks of MLC are depression and confusion. The confusion is from the two, or more, lives pushing inside them. Eventually most choose the easy path and totally commit to the running. The confusion goes deep within them and they seldom will show it anymore. Of course, one cannot run from themselves; and in the darkness of night, laying still in their bed, with no distractions of delights to run too, they recall a past life which somehow superimposed upon the current one(s). Such is the outcome of choosing such an immoral path. Depression and sleep deprivation are very common among those in crisis. Their physical appearance and health takes a terrible beating; gray circles under the eyes, they age like a decade while they try to regain their youth. Perhaps you have notice such things.

Some advice. Do not tell him you don’t trust him. That will not do you any benefit. To date, it’s ok, what’s done is done. And your got to say your piece. H knows and there is no point in telling him again and again. That advice of non repetition goes for lots of things. For example, telling him you love him, or that you don’t want a D, and such. He’s heard it, he knows it. Our words will not change their mind, because they are in an emotional crisis. It is pressure and they will bolt.

By the sounds of things H doesn’t see the need to discuss monies already spent, I am wondering if you might need financial protection rather sooner than later. Consider that, with a business-like mind and attitude. Perhaps your locale has separation before divorce. That is how it is here in my locale. One must be separated for at least one year before divorcing. The separation is basically a divorce agreement - money and kids and how to split them. If so, a separation would be an easier path to get an agreement with (maybe). It gives protection and security without divorcing.

Most MLCers or WAS have a period when their guilt prompts them to offer better deals then later once they are more entrenched in their new wonderful lives. Again, not the right off the bat angry type. Those are just a battle from day one. My XW was the opposite end of the spectrum, she gave away everything - sole custody of kids, money, house, pension, cars. So weird and strange to see someone so sad and troubled that they throw their entire life away. Their. Entire. Life. Up to that point, tossed away.

So, no more telling H you don’t trust him. Listen lots and say little. A pretty common thing to do is to drink the STFU smoothie whenever you feel like saying something, especially if it is snarky. (STFU - if you can’t figure it out Shut The ___ Up. Lol. OH my goodness, I drank a lot of those during my XW’s “visits”.)

Do you have bank records? Account balances? Credit cards figured out? Mortgage paperwork? Etc. I recall this all being suggested previously in your thread and I believe you have looked after it. Just encouraging you and confirming that is the correct course for you, even if it feels wrong.

H says he want to file D. Hmmm. Words. Not actions. What to believe?

Answer: Yourself.

You follow your path. If you need protection then do it. If you can wait, and you want too (even if you don’t quite feel like it ), then do that.

H might change his gnat-like mind regarding divorce. In fact most flip and flop an incredible number of times, like thousands of times, hoping that we will take the ball and run with it. They are guilty and do not want to be seen as the bad guy. It’s a pretty irrational path they are on, so don’t worry when it doesn’t make sense. It mostly doesn’t make sense to them either. And they’re living it!

How are you doing? Do you feel detached still? Somewhat? You are further along than you feel, as odd as that sounds. One’s feelings take time to catch up, which seems weird when discussing the very detachment of feelings. It has to do with the fact that feelings are reactive. Beliefs are proactive, leading, inspiring.

A topic for another post, another day. I believe I’ve taken up more than enough of your thread. Lol.

Have a great evening my dear. I’m thinking about you.

D

[Elbereth]

H seems confused for the need for the agreement about funds he's spent

Of course he did. Lol.

He has the attention span of a gnat right now. He is off in La La Land running around with fairies and unicorns. Things like bills and money and fair equitable splitting of martial asset and bank accounts is not on his radar.

This made me laugh... I can visual it and it's not flattering for him. haha

He would love it if you would just go along with his narrative. Do not fall for it! Protect yourself. Know your rights. Ensure you see a L and ask lots of questions. See what you are entitled to, what the default outcome is (the worst case), what the likely outcome is, what rights and monies you can waive, what rights you cannot waive, what you are willingly to wave or negotiate away, and what you are willing to fight tooth and nail for.

Yeah, he's like, can't we just do it over the internet? I'm like, NO, I can't trust you. You started hiding money and spending behind my back even after we discussed telling each other what we were spending. So, yeah, I have gone to a L, and I am getting prepared to protect myself and come up with a strategy. I've also signed up for a financial course that will help me get through this as well as understand better how to set myself up on my own.

Remember the two main hallmarks of MLC are depression and confusion. The confusion is from the two, or more, lives pushing inside them. Eventually most choose the easy path and totally commit to the running. The confusion goes deep within them and they seldom will show it anymore. Of course, one cannot run from themselves; and in the darkness of night, laying still in their bed, with no distractions of delights to run too, they recall a past life which somehow superimposed upon the current one(s). Such is the outcome of choosing such an immoral path. Depression and sleep deprivation are very common among those in crisis. Their physical appearance and health takes a terrible beating; gray circles under the eyes, they age like a decade while they try to regain their youth. Perhaps you have notice such things.

Yes, he is running and I should have seen it coming by past behaviors with other things in his life. He won't change unless he faces what he is running from, and I am not sure he will, so that is also why I feel I need to protect myself. His selfishness runs deep too. And yes, he is aging before my eyes. So weird to look at him and see a stranger in his eyes and how unhealthy he looks. The loving part of me wants to hug and him tell him it will get better, but then I realize, he's no longer the man I knew. It would be like hugging a ghost. Meaningless and fleeting.

I have been gathering documents and am meeting with the L this week to review the plan. In my state it isn't a year, so it can a matter of months if it doesn't drag out. But since he's been dishonest, there probably will be a period of discovery. I'm not sure he has the fight in him, there hasn't been a lot of anger. At least since the BD. Before then there was, as well as criticism, judgement, lashing out, etc. I have been so confused over the last few years at what was going on, and so I think he's 2-3 years into the crises. And I now wonder if this isn't his first one.

How are you doing? Do you feel detached still? Somewhat? You are further along than you feel, as odd as that sounds. One’s feelings take time to catch up, which seems weird when discussing the very detachment of feelings. It has to do with the fact that feelings are reactive. Beliefs are proactive, leading, inspiring.

A topic for another post, another day. I believe I’ve taken up more than enough of your thread. Lol.

Mmmm...I'm not really sure how I am feeling. I definitely am up and down a bit. I've also been sleeping a lot more than I had been lately. But I'm doing my best to face the discomfort, rest as I feel I need it, and also take time to do things that bring me joy like long walks on the beach or playing with my cat or watching shows. I'm juggling so many things right now that I try not to get sucked into one thing at a time and try to do the uncomfortable (or not so fun stuff) in bursts, like for an hour here and there instead of spending the whole evening digging up paperwork for example.

Anyway, everyone can write as much and as often as they'd like on my thread and I find it so helpful and it means a lot. Thank you so much! I'll catch up more later.