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Originally Posted by OnlyBent
One question that jumped out at me May...is all the work that you have done and all the pain and hurt that you have felt, and continue to feel, worth it only to have a M that lacks the emotional intimacy that you desire?

Of course not. Not in the end. But we are only in the very beginning stages of piecing. I'm not prepared to bail out now after everything we've been through. And the same reasons I stood (my children) are still here, still have no idea any of this happened and I still think it is worth it-- for them and for my H and me-- to give this M the best shot we possibly can.

Thank you for writing this-- you've reminded me of the big reasons I'm here, and it is a good reminder to keep focusing on my ultimate goal. I may end up bailing in the end. I may not. But I want to know I tried. And truth is, we do have flashes of the emotional intimacy, more and more. But it certainly isn't where I want to be. Nor do I think true emotional intimacy will be possible until we've worked through a lot of the stuff around the A-- and we simply aren't there yet. We've barely started.

Having gone through all of this, I don't think I would be satisfied with a mediocre M again. M1.0 won't do it for me any more. M2.0 or bust! wink


Me (46) H (42)
M:14 T:18, D9 & D11
4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs
9/20 - present: R and piecing
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May,

I think you are doing really well and trying your best to forgive. I think it’s going to come down to one word “trust”. Can you trust him?

We’re finding in a lot of these situations that the affairs weren’t their first rodeo. Does your husband have of a history of any other affairs.

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Originally Posted by May
. And the same reasons I stood (my children) are still here, still have no idea any of this happened and I still think it is worth it-- for them and for my H and me-- to give this M the best shot we possibly can.

Having gone through all of this, I don't think I would be satisfied with a mediocre M again. M1.0 won't do it for me any more. M2.0 or bust! wink

I love it, May. For someone who used to describe themselves as having a tendency to control, I've been inspired by your ability to wait and see where he heads, to acknowledge what you're feeling, but not let those feelings lead you into rash actions. When you have acted (e.g., when you walked towards divorce) it's been decisive, believable, and had an impact. I hope your husband does the work to keep you. It sounds like you want an intact family badly--maybe you'd even accept a M1.5 instead of a full-blown M2.0? Obviously, a M1.0 wouldn't be worth it. Stay true to yourself, because the May you are is awesome.

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Hello my sweet May,

I have more to say and when I have time I'll write something more encompassing about what you wrote here and the questions I never answered on my thread. However, for now I just want to remind you. We spent almost 4 months not talking about the A at all. We spent 4 months basically dating. We were very cautious around each other. I didn't bare my soul. We didn't emotionally connect for a while. I think OverRainbow can speak on that too. I was scared if I let him in he'd just hurt me so we inched along to that point. The sweeping me in his arms didn't happen until after we were able to put things on the table. And his remorse is a constant under current. We almost work in reverse from the two of you. H constantly thinks every time I'm stressed, sad, upset, pretty much every negative emotion it's because of him. Honestly that gets annoying for me. I don't want to have to constantly reassure him there are other things in this world that can affect me negatively. I've more than proved I'm in this long haul.

I say all this so you understand. None of this is linear. And this side of the journey isn't going to be the same for every one. This is all one step at a time. I was in a mess for about 4 months. 8 months later I can finally say we're entering M 2.0. When I think about my exH and what I did there. It probably took us 2 years to get back to some version of normal. Where he felt secure and I wasn't thinking 24/7 I made a mistake not walking away for good when I had the chance. But he never changed. He was always going to do what he was going to do. So I did leave for good a year after that. When our new normal was exactly the same as our old one. Honestly, your H had you guys in a mess for 2 years. It's going to take you at least that much time to get back to where you were, pre-A. It'll probably take another year to really feel like your in M 2.0. You have a very long road ahead of you. I know you're good for it if you continue to choose it. But you can't use books or us as a place to put your milestones in piecing. You'll have to set those yourself. And you know them when you see them. The same goes if/when you start to see the signs pointing to an exit. You have to trust your gut now. Not your head or your heart. Trust your gut for this.

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Originally Posted by LH19
I think you are doing really well and trying your best to forgive. I think it’s going to come down to one word “trust”. Can you trust him?

Hi LH, I do trust him... but I'm a trusting fool as I have probably noted before. So take that with a grain of salt. But yes, I absolutely do trust him that AP is out of the picture and not coming back, and that he's learned his lesson on what is important and wouldn't ever risk this again. The trust has actually been there for awhile. It has been my head that was telling me I was dumb to trust him. It is only in the past few weeks that my head has caught up to my gut on this one. And my head isn't 100 percent there, either.

But-- do I trust that he can do the hard work to learn from this $hitshow, to be a better and bigger man, to ensure going forward that his actions align with his values, to admit his failings and work hard to improve himself, swallow his ego-- all the things that would have to happen to get to M2.0? That, I don't know.

Originally Posted by LH19
We’re finding in a lot of these situations that the affairs weren’t their first rodeo. Does your husband have of a history of any other affairs.

Yes, this was his first and only affair. It also wasn't like a little slip up though. If I'm trying to feel generous, I do think there were some aspects that made it last as long as it did without him being a total sociopath-- she lived 5k miles away so they only saw each other maybe 15-20 times total in the entire two years (at some point I counted it all up but have now forgotten). He also never had any serious GFs before me. I was the first person he ever said ILY to. (No longer the only person. Which is hurtful, obviously. Though maybe a tad bit unfair because I did have serious Rs before him... but at least they didn't overlap!!) He had zero idea of what it meant to break up with someone. I think he made a series of stupid and selfish choices that landed him in a situation he didn't know how to get out of. He didn't believe that R with me would be possible. he thought that once I knew what he'd done he'd be out on the street the next day. Anyway. No real need to rehash any of that right now, but just to say that yes, I do believe this was his only affair. We aren't in a Steve_'s wife sitch right now.

CW-- thank you. I think I am going to struggle with control forever! But I'm also starting to realize that one of the things that I want in M2.0 is to feel more like a partnership and less like me running the household with input from him. I was thinking about Sage's situation and how she completely handled everything, including her H, for years. My sitch wasn't as extreme as hers-- I have two kids, not four; my H traveled maybe half of what hers did; and my H *has* stepped up quite a bit in this realm throughout this whole mess-- but I do feel like I shouldered the majority of the emotional burden of running a household, and I did all the research for everything else we did and would have him weigh in on the options. I don't want that anymore. I want a full partner and I think that means me giving up (perceived) control over the future. I control me-- that's it.

Wayfarer-- I really appreciate you weighing in. I know this isn't linear and I guess this is my control side speaking again but it would all be so much easier and more comfortable if there was more of a path, I could check off the boxes of feeling like we're going in the right direction at least or not. I know there is no magic key that can tell me if this is all going to be worthwhile. Maybe if we get a really terrific MC that will help, someone who has been through this with others before and knows what it takes to be successful.

I guess the funny thing is that the script is so GD clear during the A. Every single f-ing WS says the same GD things. It would be hilarious if it weren't so horrible. So part of me feels like there should be a script for these next parts, too, you know? Maybe there is and I just don't know what to look for.

You know, though. My gut has never, ever wavered on any of this. My head is unsure and desperately wants more security. My heart is still hurt. But my gut has always said we'll get through this. (Again. My gut has been wrong, though. I believed him during the trickle-truth era when he kept telling me a bit more but that was it. When he told me for a year there was no-one else, that I had broken him sexually because of the SSM, the ILYB stuff. Then that it was only an EA, they had kissed once. Etc.)

Of course, no need to rehash. But my brain has a hard time trusting my gut right now. For a long time I was angry with him for taking that away from me, my own belief in my own intuition. But I realize that no-one can take that away from me! That is all on me. I can choose to not let this experience change how i see and interact with the world. I am a glass-half-full person and I mean to stay that way.


Me (46) H (42)
M:14 T:18, D9 & D11
4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs
9/20 - present: R and piecing
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Sometimes I try to imagine what I’d try to do in my sitch if it were at the point yours is now. I do feel like I’d feel many of the same feelings you’ve had/are having. Totally understandable considering what you’ve gone through. I think once I recognized my focusing on aspects of things (what’s going right or wrong or my own expectations), I think I would recognize myself doing that and try to “just let things flow”. That is what is hardest for me as I am the type of person who wants to feel in control. I don’t always adjust to things changing or not going my way. But I’m learning in my self inspection journey that I’ve gotten in my own way many times.

And, like the rest of the process, you can’t really control the outcome of your piecing or M 2.0 beyond your own actions and attention to the relationship. Have you tried to just flow with it, and try moving those expectations from your head for even just a week. Then try to evaluate the week after it’s over? This is something I’ve been trying to do, to try to get more comfortable with what I can’t control as well as to avoid the dwelling of things that has been my way for so long. Other than just this recent period I’m in, I think it’s helped me. I find I spend less time dwelling on things when the period has ended versus dwelling on what hasn’t even happened yet. If that makes any sense.

Anyway, not sure if any of this sounds helpful. Sending you hugs and kudos for how far you have already come. laugh


Me 52, H 56
T10 M7, 2nd MR for both
2 Step Sons (19 and 21)
BD: Fall 2020
D finalized: July 2022
XH Married AP soon after D day.



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May, it's so good to see you are moving forward. I think it's good to go slowly, to allow your gut and brain and heart get on the same page eventually. You've been through A LOT, and there's no reason to rush anything.

I know what you mean about the script being so clear. I think these WS think they are going through something so wonderful and new that no one has experience before. Yes, other people may do this and it's bad, but their relationship is different. It's special. Ugh.

Anyway, you are doing great. I'm sorry I haven't always commented. I am a bit in survival mode right now, but I think I am coming out of it.


me: 46 h: 49
m: 24 T: 27
DD1:20 DD2:17 DS:12
BD1: PA for 2 yrs 08/2016
BD2: OW is one of my closest friends 12/2016
BD3: H wants a D 11/2019
Now: He is in the same house, but has filed for divorce.
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{{{May}}} ... it’s so good to catch up on your sitch. When I came back to the forum I did spend a little time reading up on your progress before feeling ready to post about my own.

I am so pleased that you guys are moving forward, and that you have come so far. I can imagine that it has felt like snail’s pace in the moment, but when you read through 5 months’ of updates in an hour like I have done, the progress is so large and evident.

Like you said on my thread, it is so comforting to know that you guys are where you are. Our situations have seemed to run in parallel so much over the last 12+ months: the endings of the A, the relapses, the ambivalence, you overtake me, I drop back, you drop back, I go past...lol! I think one of my fears in coming back to the forum would have been to discover that you guys had made other choices. Admittedly that’s from a very selfish standpoint - i would have not felt as hopeful for my own sitch if I thought yours had gone pear-shaped. But of course I am also so pleased for you and your family that things seem to be on the right track right now.

I know exactly what you mean about the missing script. But I can tell you now that what I read in your updates has so many similarities to mine.... our Hs are still following a script from somewhere! When you talk about Hs’s humility, shame, guilt etc. I am seeing so much of this from mine too. It has taken a while for the A fog to lift but my H seems to be well and truly out of the fog and can see the A - and AP- for what they were: a truly toxic and destructive force. One thing that has made me chuckle is the ‘verbal filter’...or lack thereof that you used to experience so much with your H. My H has now started to operate with no verbal filter .... perhaps fortunately for me it is all historic data, and not real-time like with your H. I just think ‘ew, gross’ every time he opens his mouth like this, but it always makes me smile a little in thinking about your descriptions! I guess I have given H a safe space to share his emotions and he doesn’t know when to stop lol !

There were some other things I wanted to say in relation to specific points but I’m on my phone, in a car park, and it’s not easy to find the bits I need, so I will sign off for now and try again later!

Sending huge hugs May! So proud of where you are and how you are handling things! Xx


M:49 H:49
T:20 M:18
D:16 D:14

EA: Feb 2019-May 2020
Separated: Mar-early Aug 2020
H asked to reconcile: Jun 2020
EA relapse: Oct/Nov 2020
Recon #2: since Nov 2020
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Hi guys! Been a few weeks so thought I'd update and respond.

Things are going... pretty well, actually. His parents were just here visiting for a couple of weeks and it went fairly well. Two weeks is a loooong time to have anyone in your house (IMHO) especially when the guests are older and very set in their ways, and we all barely left the house since H and I are WFH and his parents don't really like to get out all that much. We've had a lot of rain too. We did all go to a beach house for a few days (kids were on spring break) which was lovely, and H tried really really hard to not provoke his father, since their relationship has been pretty strained over the past few years. (FIL has been watching a lot of Fox News, shall we say.) By the end we did have a bit of strain but the nice thing was instead of the tension making H and me blow up at each other, we were able to be a team and talk each other down when things got tense. Veeeery different from the past several years. MIL is still also quite angry with H for his A-- she talked to both of us individually a couple of times. House back to being very quiet which is nice.

In terms of H's remorse/behavior, there are a few new things happening. One, I had told him that I needed to hear that he was sorry and he loved me not just once but enough so that I believed it. (I also want to hear that AP is a sorry POS and he can't believe he ever thought he had feelings for her, but I don't think we're quite there yet and I'm trying not to push it.) The last couple of weeks, he now comes up to me daily, hugs me, and says he loves me and is sorry. If I get triggered or sad, he puts his hand on my arm or leg and says he's sorry instead of immediately getting upset that I'm upset. (If I can't let it go and get pissy, he will eventually get pissy back and say I'm ruining everything, so it isn't like this is all roses. But TBH the authentic apology does really help me and I'm much more able to not turn to anger in these moments, I think partially because of this.)

He also has brought up MC a number of times. Our old IC finally got her insurance straightened out, so we decided to see her as a couple for a few times to see how that goes, and if it doesn't work to find another MC. We talked it over (it was his idea as neither of us think it is healthy for us both to see her individually any longer, and I also truly don't think she's a great IC for him as he needs less of a validator/echo chamber and more someone who will push him gently in the areas where he wants to make change), and he went ahead and talked with her and made all the arrangements. I do feel ready for this step. I said to him that one thing I wanted to do from the beginning (especially as we both know her well in the IC capacity but not as an MC) was to set some goals together for what we wanted to accomplish, and he immediately agreed. He has said to me over and over when I'm getting upset -- May, we want the same thing. It just really struck me in that moment how far we've come because the first time we started to see an MC (when he wanted to check the box on the way to D) he'd refused to set the same goal of a better M with me-- he kept saying he didn't think we should take anything off the table, including D. That blew my mind and totally upset me through the entire 9 months or so we saw her, though of course at that time I had no idea he was having an affair and in hindsight it all makes so much sense. So while it hurts somewhat to think back and realize all the gaslighting that was going on at that time, it also does really strike me how very different he is right now than he was then. And, some of you might remember that early on in this R process I'd said one of the things I was looking for (WMD's short term goals!) was him doing the legwork to get us set up with MC. So checking that box feels positive.

Re-reading my last thread and my hangups on the humility and remorse flowing through every interaction... we aren't there. But there is definitely more there than there was, and I'm also less focused on it (maybe because it is no longer glaringly absent). I have more hope in M2.0 now than I did three weeks ago. Baby steps but there does seem to be value, at least for me, in taking stock a little less frequently so that change is more apparent-- Elbereth, just as you suggested. I think for me consistently remembering to focus on the present and take a longer view helps. I really tried to take your advice to not worry about it till I was ready to take stock and I think that really helped me too, so thank you.

OG-- that part about them going through something so wonderful that no one understands cracked me up. It is so sad and funny. It used to drive me insane. It still does a bit, even though he is off that script these days. I'm thinking of you and hope you keep updating!

POMMY! I hope you keep updating too. Would love to hear more of your insights on my sitch especially given all the parallels! My H isn't saying that AP is a nut job (though I'm not sure he'd tell me when he does since I've probably made too big a deal of it) so I don't know that he's out of the fog in the same way. And maybe he won't ever be, who knows. I hope so, though. I have a hard time imagining M2.0 and a fulfilling sex and romantic life with H without a very firm belief on his part that AP was a mistake and not all that great of a person. (Why is this so important to me? IDK. Maybe it won't be in the future. But it feels that way right now.) H is also less of a sharer these days, we don't talk about the A or AP much at all. I think he deeply regrets saying a lot of the filterless stuff he said during the A. He has said that he had a different goal back then--he wanted me to want to D him--and that I need to understand that lens when remembering all the cr@p he said about her to me. It was less that he really felt like that so much as he wanted to hurt me and push me away. Which is horrible and cruel, of course. But it did happen and neither of us can erase it.

Job front-- I am one of three finalists for this position but am not feeling especially optimistic, but also pretty zen about the whole thing. Like if it happens, great, and if not, it wasn't meant to be. I'm glad I put myself out there regardless. smile

Love to you all,
May


Me (46) H (42)
M:14 T:18, D9 & D11
4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs
9/20 - present: R and piecing
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It's so heartwarming to read a story that has a nice outcome like yours. Of course the ending is not yet written but I've enjoying watching your growth may. And I'm glad I no longer want to yell at your H anymore. lol!!


BD: Sep 2019
D in progress
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