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My condolences to your family.

And Gerda, your son is a fine young man. Well done!


Feelings are fleeting.
Be better, not bitter.
Love the person, forgive the sin.
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My condolences to your family. I think your son is a very wise young man and did the right thing. You've taught him well.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Sweet Gerda, my sincere condolences for the loss of your FIL.
Important in periods of grief to be there for each other indeed.


Me(45)EXH(44)
M:15 T:18, S19, S16 & S16
04/19-02/20 ILYB & OW1
12/20-08/22 OW2 (+pregnant-his child)
03/22-Divorce official
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09/23-possible back with OW2
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Gerda Offline OP
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Thank you, everyone, for the kind messages and empathy.

Another "side effect" of the MLC divorce disease -- no one except all of you thinks I would care about my FIL dying, and dying with so much suffering, or that I would grieve. I knew him since 1995. He was a really hard man and not a kind man, except to animals and his wife at times, but I had my way with him and he made me laugh, and he was someone I knew very well, knew all his stories, have photos of him as a child and an adult in my home, and would have taken care of in his old age. I have been crying a lot about him and for him and praying for him and didn't file things I needed for court out of respect, but then on Friday, four days after his death, H's lawyer sent some message about scheduling trial. Relentless.

Another thing happened, and I wanted to hear your comments about it -- those of you who have been here a while may remember that I had to have the house appraised in August, 2019, by a court-ordered appraiser who was extremely expensive and who did not measure the house, overvaluing it by an insane amount as a result and causing many of our troubles of today -- but even way overvalued H did not accept the appraisal and that's why we are still here. But anyway -- we were not allowed to be present for the appraisal and there was a huge drama when the appraiser showed up and I had to find a neighbor to take her through the house etc. I looked out my window beforehand and H was standing outside with some guy in linen pants who was obviously a broker. This guy pretended he was just a friend representing H, and would be coming inside. There was a scene on the street when I came out and he was chatting up the appraiser and I said, "You are a broker, get out," she had to call the court to ask, etc., huge drama ending with him admitting he was a broker and leaving. Then H tried to hire him as the broker and I said no and then found a year-old letter from this broker where he gave the same overvalue of our house to try to get H to be his client, H had sent it to me to try to force me to sell the house before he had filed for D. So I told the court he couldn't use that broker. So H submits the name of another broker, let's call her Julie, supposedly from another firm, and I dig up the year-old letter that was from this broker and his partner, JULIE! They were LYING again and again to try to get this guy, let's call him, Cockroach, in on the listing! I called Cockroach's boss and complained about the whole thing and even his boss seemed shocked at the story. This was all in fall of 2019. THe only broker more unethical was the one H hired after that, but he was such a low-life and outright stupid, he also wasn't effective at selling the place.

Cut to last night, S16 comes home from a night out with friends and asks me if I know Cockroach, because he is very good friends with Cockroach's son!!!! In fact, this kid had offered to help get S16 a job with his uncle, who is Cockroach's brother. S16 just found out about the connection it turned out that Cockroach had just taken his son and another good friend of S16's to H's restaurant, and they were like, hey, I know a kid with that last name, and H had offered Cockroach Jr a job!!!! S16 was humiliated that they would know about our family's problems, our financial problems, that the kid might work for H, etc., etc. He wanted to know what I would do if Cockroach's son invited S16 on a trip and I had to talk to the parents, and I assured him I would act normal and either say nothing or just say, "Hey, we have a weird connection but I'm glad our sons are friends." It was quite hard to navigate and hard to assuage S16's fears, because the truth is that the drama will probably continue, H probably LOVES that he can sneak his way into S16's life and get control of his feelings in that way. S16 asked me many questions that I did answer but which revealed some of this dark story. I told him that he had nothing to be embarrassed about, and that Cockroach might not tell the full story to his son because he would have to admit to unethical dealings. But they probably have a whole story about me too.

I live in a huge city with thousands upon thousands of brokers and thousand upon thousands of restaurants. WHY?!!! This is crazier than a Dickens story!

Comments please. All of y'all!


I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord with courage.
Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
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Gerda,

I see you've asked for comments, but I'm not entirely certain about what, so I'll make a couple of observations and draw from my own experience with these things.

Yes, it is a small world. I've had those uncanny encounters many times. I'd just assure your son that adults tend to navigate these issues and he shouldn't concern himself with it or let it affect his relationship with his friend.

I noted with my X that any time I told him what I wanted, it was almost a guarantee I would not get it. He had a need to hurt me and take from me the things I valued most. I assume this is his own issue and I try not to take it personally. What I will tell you, is that I left without something I thought I needed, only to find out what an albatross it would have been for me. I had to let go of many of my own perceived needs to get it done, be divorced, and finally have some peace. While I thought for a very long time he was the one who couldn't finalize it and couldn't let go, maybe it was me. When I did let go of care about what I kept and did not keep, it ended.

I want to be honest with you, and this is largely based on my own experience. I have a hard time picturing how you will ever keep that house. It sounds like the place where all of your assets are tied up. You guys can't work together to come up with a plan to keep it. I don't get the idea from you that your jurisdiction is one where you are going to be able to keep it if it comes down to the judge making the decision (and that seems to be where yours is going). I think the judge sent you both a strong warning in denying both of your motions. I wonder how you would ever get a loan to try to buy him out based on what you have said about your finances. From here, it sounds like your determination to keep it is the reason this has not been done.

At the end of the day it does not matter who sells your house or what they list it for. As long as they put it on MLS and the pictures are good (something I would try to keep some agency over, like approval of the listing), the market will tell you what the house is worth and what a buyer is willing to pay for it. If you price it too low, you will get many offers above the way the market has been. If you price it too high, the market will tell you and you will get none or they will make low offers. If your goal is not to sell and he prices too high, then it won't sell and you have nothing to fear; the experience will teach him about the value of the home more than any appraisal ever could. Perhaps then he would be willing to entertain one of your deals.

If you told him that he can choose whomever he wants to list it on two conditions, would he go for it? Condition 1--you get approval of the listing/pictures. Condition 2--you get to match the offer price (which I think would require you to have funding in place) by providing proof of financing within x days or it goes to the buyer. If you can't do that, again, I'm not sure how the court could make a ruling where you get to keep the house.

Everyone has to reach their own place on these things, but I don't think coming up with unkind names helps you, it causes you to vilify these folks in a way that keeps you entrenched. Very likely the realtor just wants to make a sale in a very competitive market where you are. That does not make him a bad person. Even if he has unrealistic ideas on the value of the house, as I've explained, that doesn't really present a problem for you if your goal is not to sell. Until you test the market, your perceptions and his will remain just that; hypothetical battles over something that can be resolved with an action.

I'm not expecting you to agree with me, and I'm sure you will have a million excuses for why it won't work (I too had many excuses for a very long time), but I say these things to you with care about what you have endured and a desire to see you using your many talents on something more productive than banging your head against a wall for several more years. I'm not sure what good you see in making offer after offer. At this point, they are likely all just noise. Just to change it up, if you aren't willing to do what I've suggested, how about going very, very quiet. No more offers, no more motions. Give him some time and space to see how he might step into the void.

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Gerda Offline OP
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Oh, I just wanted everyone to say, Oh my gosh, I can't believe that connection happened and either laugh or cry about it. Just feeling lonely.


I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord with courage.
Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
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Gerda, you aren't alone and the anger is something we can all understand. I'm sure other folks, like me, had a hard time deciphering what you were looking for and therefore didn't know how to respond. I've written many a post that didn't solicit a response. I often view it as journaling or just saying something somewhere anonymous (ha ha) so I can get it off my chest and move on.

I remember when you and the kids had some holiday get togethers. What about an end of summer repeat, something fun, festive, and with masked people in shifts? Something to lift your spirits and give you something to look forward to.

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Hi Gerda,

Don't let it get to you too much. There are many people out there with less good intentions and who will always have something to say about anybody else.

Know that you are someone who has the heart in the right place, and try to let it go, although I fully understand how difficult that sometimes is. (having equal issues with MIL who is constantly trying to convince the family that I'm not good for H, nobody follows her because they know she is a bad person)

Good-hearted people will see right through this you know.

Hugs (((((())))))


Me(45)EXH(44)
M:15 T:18, S19, S16 & S16
04/19-02/20 ILYB & OW1
12/20-08/22 OW2 (+pregnant-his child)
03/22-Divorce official
06/22-08/23 Reconnecting
09/23-possible back with OW2
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Hi Gerda,

What I took from your post is-- you're such a beautiful person. I'm so sorry about your FIL and it speaks volumes that you're grieving and praying for him. (((Gerda)))

And UGH about the broker and all the dumb connections.

xoxo May


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9/20 - present: R and piecing
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Hello Gerda

Wowee. What a busy weekend and couple of days. Today was only 13 hours unlike yesterday’s 16.

Originally Posted by Gerda
And tonight I am away from all that in my mountain cabin, watching how fast the moon crosses the sky and listening to all the insects singing into the stars.....

Yes. With the sun setting earlier the stars shine before bed now. Standing out under their gaze and listening to the insects sing, squeak, buzz, and chirp is kind of enthralling.

And when one notices how fast the moon or sun crosses the sky; that’s a nice sign of a peaceful time.


I do recall that time when you confronted H and his “friend” (broker) and prevented Cockroach from entering your house. Such a pair of sneaks those two were.

It is pretty wild that S16 and the broker’s son are friends. Small world huh?

I’d suggest not naming the broker Cockroach in your mind. That kind of thing tends to jade and taint one. And S16 and this kid are friends.

Good for you assuaging son’s fears regarding what his friend might know. And assuring him that you will be quashing drama and behaving adult-like in any future talks between parents.

This is just another wee test from the universe. Another opportunity to shine and grow. I’ve found blessing or curse usually depends on one’s point of view. smile

I did write my post before reading Own’s. I quite like her assessments. Don’t vilify friend’s Dad with names. And her financial / realty point of view is interesting and worthy of consideration.


S16 is growing into a fine man. I was impressed by his taking lead and going to see his Dad at the news of FIL’s death. In two short years son will be an adult, and I am predicting he is going to find his way just fine.

Son’s asking questions regarding the events from 2019 and his friend’s Dad’s involvement is fine. It sounds like you covered off the basics and facts without dragging this man through the mud too bad. S16 doesn’t need all the dirty little details.

Originally Posted by Gerda
It was quite hard to navigate and hard to assuage S16's fears, because the truth is that the drama will probably continue, H probably LOVES that he can sneak his way into S16's life and get control of his feelings in that way.

Yes, some drama probably will be attempted by H. Continue? I’m not sure. Does it take an audience for drama to survive? Like the noise of a tree falling when no one is around. Do not debate if there is noise or not, just don’t be there to hear it. And better yet, don’t get hit by a falling tree.

H’s sneaky ways does not get control of S16’s feelings. Nope. No way.

S16 controls his own feelings. He is a smart lad. He can and might even realize Dad’s attempts at influencing his feelings. Influence, not control. Perhaps that is something you and son can discuss. That would go a long way to assuage your fears as well as son’s.

I am sorry you are feeling lonely.

You are one of my favourite folks around here. Much more than an anonymous user ID. Deeper than the flat characters upon the screen. There is a feeling, caring, person, typing and sharing her life. Many many people read your words and are walking beside you.

(((Hugs)))

D


Feelings are fleeting.
Be better, not bitter.
Love the person, forgive the sin.
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