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Darling girl, I've been wondering where you are, and here you come, hitting it out of the park. Amen. Ditto. Absolute truth in your words.

Will the newbies believe you? Probably not, but some may and therein lies their hope, their salvation and the key to their peace of mind and sanity through this quagmire of doubt, hurt, abuse and horror.

Listen to Gerda. Or don't. But if you do, you'll be in a better place when the dust finally settles, and so will your children.


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

"Someone I loved once gave me
A box full of darkness.
It took me years to understand,
That this too, was a gift."
~ Mary Oliver
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Thank you so much, everyone, for the flood of love and commiseration!

That was really touching to hear from you all - Eagle, DnJ, DejaVu, Cardinal, CW, Job and even beautiful bttrfly. Your words hit me right in the heart but in a good way. And so impressed with all that you are doing -- surviving, thriving, writing novels, loving your kids, looking to the future without worrying so much about the time we have "wasted." And thanks, DnJ, for reminding me of how far I came, you are always the great supporter and friend.

Job, your praise is high praise, since you have "seen it all" more than any of us. If my post became a stickie, considering my journey, it would almost like winning an Oscar!

In my time away, the details of all our stories became smaller and the bigger truths loomed large. I came back to see so many posters going over the little details like I always did, not able to see that none of it mattered because their spouses were at least temporarily insane, at best like talking dolls. I looked back on my path and my past and everything got clearer. I always wondered what it would have taken to help 2014 Gerda to get more quickly to where I am now. I know what kept me from surrendering, from the terrifying freefall. And now I can see the outcome on my children of letting them witness so much abuse for so long -- and even the outcome on my was-band of enabling his behavior, of not fighting for myself in the first year of the divorce. These things are clearly bad, there is no question in what I am witnessing. I remember thinking in the early days, "Well, God is my lawyer," but I forgot that God had already provided me with all the gifts I needed to do battle and I didn't fight. I let so many things happen that caused me to still be stuck in the pit of divorce now. Now I know the rule, "Raise it or waive it," in court. You have to raise everything so it's on the table, or they will rip you to shreds in there.

So I know what is keeping those others from doing all the things I said to do in that post, and I see the same tropes in their posts as my posts for the first few years. Like everything, it is a matter of faith. Faith in the witnesses. I came to Christian faith that way -- trusting the teller of a tale helps you believe in the tale. Actually I remember once, before I came to faith, when my H was starting to change but not fully, I was having some dark moment (probably BECAUSE he had started to change) and I asked him how he could know that God was real. He said, "Well, even if you just read the bible or any of the stories of the saints, you can be sure that those people would love you and want only to help you in any way they could. And that kind of love IS God, so that is enough for me to have faith." I never forgot that, and when I did read Paul I knew I could trust him, as a start, or when I read Father Arseny or CS Lewis. I knew they loved me, even without knowing me, so I trusted them. I was the same when I had cancer -- I trusted my doctor so much that I just went to the doctor he told me to go to, and I trusted her so much I did whatever she said. I didn't even know what stage of cancer I had, and I tried not to read too much. I just asked myself if I could trust those people and if so, I didn't have to work so hard making any choices but just trustfully do what they told me I must do. I still remember going under the day of my surgery -- arms outstretched, total trust in my surgeon, praying as I counted backwards, total surrender to God, and the white light and the peace the covered me. My was-band was texting the other woman while I lay on the table, calling her his "secret other wife," I found out the next day, but I still think of that moment as one of the happiest moments of my life. The happiness of trust and faith.

We are all witnesses too. Anything we go through equips us to help another go through it, as long as we don't get bitter or become controlled by rage or fear.

Or when we become controlled by rage or fear, we don't act on it.

Or when we act on it, we forgive ourselves for suffering those wounds, and help someone else not act on it.

I still don't know anything and I am still as anxious and arrogant and desperate to control my situation as I ever was. But I trust myself as a witness and I know I am always motivated by love, and in that way I can always be sure I am nothing like H. I can't ever imagine a man loving me, I mean for real, but I think I am starting to understand that I am worthy of my own love and protection. I never protected myself before. I didn't think I deserved it. And that made my children suffer more than they had to, and taught my son the wrong way to treat us. And it enabled my was-band to undertake a campaign of terror that shows no sign of letting up.

Have not updated my sitch for a while and maybe will soon. It's not better at all. In fact it's worse. But I am clearer now on what to do. And I love you all!

Last edited by Gerda; 05/01/21 05:28 PM.

I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord with courage.
Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
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Darling G,
I meant to reply to your last post (it hit me so deeply, I have been marinating on it for weeks), and I don’t have much time to post right now, but just wanted to say thank you, you are amazing and I can’t wait to have a deeper discourse on all of this soon.
In the meantime, I value your words and perspective so much. My admiration is deep.
Xxxxx
S

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Sage-ertawnia of the Upper Reaches of Good Womanhood -- Your little note wedged its way into my psyche all week. It seemed mesmerizing to read that I did something of value, as ridiculous as that may sound. Which brings us back to... how we don't even realize how deep was the MLCer's reach, how much we take for granted that lie now woven into our spirits that we are not really worth anything to anyone. I am not even aware of that lie all the time, it must have just been my background noise -- but realized that if I was reading your note (and the others here on my thread!) sixty-two thousand times with disbelief, it points not only to your kindess and friendship but how long ago it was that we felt loved or liked and how deeply we believed the MLCer's lie about our worth.

LBS's, be alert! Most of what you are worrying about is based on a lie about who you are, what you did and what a marriage is supposed to be! It will be a veil over everything you do and think until you can start to see your own value and to see what is happening more clearly.


I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord with courage.
Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
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Thank you Gerda for this whole thread and the other posters who contributed. I am inspired by your strength and as a newer LBS, your words are like gold to me. Yes, at first, I was taken aback and very defensive on my actions. But even if you feel many of us LBS's don't listen, there are many of us that do hear you...even if we don't want to believe what we are being told. I've had periods of time where I have marinated on different thoughts and couldn't really write here. Stuck. Processing. Searching my soul. Trying to absorb the knowledge, the experience, the path that many of you have taken before me. Maybe I'm strong like some say and I saw the better path quicker than most. But to all, it's in their own time...not everyone can face struggles so fiercely...some take time to gather strength and acceptance before they can even think about the thoughts that are uncomfortable.

I'm grateful though that many of you show so much patience and gentle guidance. It's true. Going through this journey does create PSTD. And the fact that its not just one event makes it harder to process...living day in and day out trying to move forward, change things, accept things or let things go. All while more bomb drops, or terrible situations happen. I feel like it's almost multiple episodes of trauma...of which many are not strong enough to handle and shut down. It's overwhelming at times...

But the stories, the support, the advice, the experience, the gentle 2x4s, all of it...are gifts to us. Golden gifts. From strangers who are friends...and a lifeline to many of us. I am so sorry for your difficult journey. I wish I could hug you. But I can tell you that I am eternally grateful that I have you all to listen to and guide me. That we are not alone and that WE will all be okay. I know I couldn't be on this journey without everyone here. I hope watching us take your advice and move through our journeys faster/better helps you to be stronger in your journey as it continues. We are learning from you. You are GOLDEN. Thank you! (((Gerda)))

El


Me 52, H 56
T10 M7, 2nd MR for both
2 Step Sons (19 and 21)
BD: Fall 2020
D finalized: July 2022
XH Married AP soon after D day.



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Originally Posted by Gerda


LBS's, be alert! Most of what you are worrying about is based on a lie about who you are, what you did and what a marriage is supposed to be! It will be a veil over everything you do and think until you can start to see your own value and to see what is happening more clearly.

PREACH IT SISTAH!

In my case the lies lodged into my body and soul until I became in part who I was accused of being... externally, not internally. The schism between the two has caused more pain and anguish than the original lies.

What do I mean by externally? I weigh more than I ever have, much of it put on in the past 4 years due to extreme stress. My house looks like a war zone. The way I carry my self - where I once stepped lightly and with confidence and joy I find myself treading heavily, with a stance like I'm carrying the world on my shoulders. Is it all a response to my exh's lies? No, putting it all on his door would be unjust. But his lies are the foundation, and that foundation must be blasted to smithereens.

A male friend recently told me that he's seen glimpses of the vibrant woman I used to be, and he prays that I will let her come forward once more. She's in there, just beaten down.

xoxo

Last edited by bttrfly; 05/13/21 03:48 PM.

M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

"Someone I loved once gave me
A box full of darkness.
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That this too, was a gift."
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Just a quick note from me, Gerda, to say how grateful I am for your words. You are incredible.

xx May


Me (46) H (42)
M:14 T:18, D9 & D11
4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs
9/20 - present: R and piecing
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Indeed Gerda, as May stated. You are incredible.

These words are the reason why we, "not so newer and newer LBS'es dealing with MLC'ers", are making quicker steps in de right direction.

Please continu to give this advice, it helps many people out there, even the ones who are not (yet) posting.


Me(45)EXH(44)
M:15 T:18, S19, S16 & S16
04/19-02/20 ILYB & OW1
12/20-08/22 OW2 (+pregnant-his child)
03/22-Divorce official
06/22-08/23 Reconnecting
09/23-possible back with OW2
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Originally Posted by bttrfly
In my case the lies lodged into my body and soul until I became in part who I was accused of being... externally, not internally. The schism between the two has caused more pain and anguish than the original lies....

A male friend recently told me that he's seen glimpses of the vibrant woman I used to be, and he prays that I will let her come forward once more. She's in there, just beaten down.



If it's any comfort, bttrfly, I would never have thought this post came from you. In my mind you are butterfly-like -- full of light and clarity, just sometimes wings weighed down by a heavy rain.

In my novel there is a character who is an LBS, and she has a long monologue where she says something just like this, that after a while, blooming out of your desperation and despair, you become the very repulsive being he thought you were, you become the hate and the lies.

I think it's not only an understandable outcome -- it might even be developmentally appropriate, like when we had tails in the womb. We are just being born now, or soon, and look how long it took us to agree to that rebirth.

These comments from you and Elbereth and May and Eagle were AMAZING to ol' Gerderina, true sustenance. I sometimes opened up the forum just to read your words again, ladies. Thank you.

I have so much to report, so so so much. But drowning as usual in work and tasks, never even enough time to sleep.

But one big thing is that D12 cut off contact with H. Of her own volition entirely. She came home from their last visitation totally distraught, could not stop crying. She was grinding her fist into her face saying, "I JUST WANT TO PUNCH MYSELF IN THE FACE WHEN I'M WITH HIM." And even said she wanted to kill herself when she was with him. I asked why she wanted to hurt herself if she was angry with him, and she said she just wanted to not feel how bad it felt. I told her that I could tell him she wouldn't see him but she had to be ready to confirm this when he asked her and to confirm it if a social worker asked her. She said yes, and then we did it. Three days of completely insane texts followed, including from his mother telling her that she would not see her unless it was with H (keep in mind she has seen neither grandchild in I think three years and they were the center of her world before BD) and saying that D12 was cruel to her father and was clearly just repeating my words because she said to my MIL that her dad was "not well mentally" and that it was too overwhelming to be with him. (And of course some doozies to me from H.) Finally D12 agreed to block them. She told me that as bad as it felt to be rejected by her own grandmother, it was better than how she felt when she was with H. Since then I have noticed a real shift in D12. She is sad and emotional but it's like a huge weight was lifted -- or not a weight, more like a vise that was twisting her into knots and pretzels. She is more... normal seeming now.

D12 has been telling me various things that H told her to swear she would not tell me. And one was that he is opening a restaurant with the same friend, godfather to my kids, who paid for his divorce lawyer for a while (until I wrote to his wife and that ended that!). I was really looking forward to the idea that once he got his equity and we were divorced, he would leave my city. Nope. He is opening a restaurant 5 min walk from my home.

And I have never said before what our family business was, but I need to say it now, just so you can understand how deep this weird replay goes -- it was a restaurant.

He ran our restaurant into the ground and had an affair with another woman, his "soulmate," and abandoned our restaurant and family and our home and pursued his dream of finally leaving our city. Now he is opening a restaurant on the shoulders of a "true friend" who can finance it (which is what I did when he wanted to open ours, via loans) literally five blocks away from where he drove ours into the ground before abandoning it. He even tried to hire some of our old cooks, who I considered brothers. And somehow this hurt me more than many things -- these two cooks' wives left them at the same time as my BD. We cried on each others' shoulders many times and they hated H and saw literally in front of all our eyes what he did to our business and to me and our kids. They filled in where he couldn't -- e.g., helping me run the place without him while he took money from the register and drank cases of wine for free. They helped with birthday parties, they built a bike on my son's birthday, they watched movies and helped with lemonade stands for my daughter, they made breakfast lunch and dinner for the kids and gave them presents on birthdays and Christmas. After the restaurant life was over (documented in other threads!), we were always planning to hang out and then Covid happened. And these two guys are going to work for H again now.

That was hard for me to take, honestly. Because H now I understand to be mentally ill plus MLC. His replay is on repeat and each repeat gets more horrific. I have accepted that he is not what I thought, and I can see that clearly now, looking back. But these two other guys I thought were so good, and they suffered just what I suffered. We were so close. So that feels like a real betrayal.

But mostly just my focus in my posts now is to provide some insight to you new folks and to point out patterns that you will encounter if your MLCer follows a similar path. I did everything to save our business, everything to save our marriage, everything to just wait it out. And after eight years, his replay is starting over again, just with our business instead of with another woman.

There is nothing you can do to stop this MLC train. Stop trying. It's on its own track. Just step aside, lest you get hit by that freight train barreling forward. Like a train, he won't even notice you lying with broken legs on the side of the track. Just get out of the way and start walking into the beautiful forest or mountain or town right there where you found yourself. Find out what's out there and how and where you might end up and on which adventure. You might hear his train in the distance but just ignore it and keep walking.

OK, much more to update regarding the latest motions and court appearances but it's almost 2 am and many miles of work to go before I sleep before I sleep.

XO to all my DB beloveds....

- Gerda

Last edited by Gerda; 05/30/21 05:56 AM.

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Wait for the Lord with courage.
Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
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Good Morning Gerda

Originally Posted by Gerda
There is nothing you can do to stop this MLC train. Stop trying. It's on its own track. Just step aside, lest you get hit by that freight train barreling forward.

100% agree.

One must step aside.


I am proud of D12 (and you tell her that if you wish). What she did, standing up for herself. So excellent! Remarkable! Good for her.

Unfortunately it took quite a sum of emotional torment and disrespect from Dad for her to finally have had enough. Her explosion outwards is so much healthier and better than holding it in and burying it.

At the moment she feels this way, and we know feelings are fleeting - unless they are reinforced. As she calms and finds her center, her intellect will take over and her values. She is thirsty to know she has done right - ensure she is well quenched. Now, more than ever, she is looking to you as her positive role model. Dad, having been rejected, is her negative role model.

It is little wonder that D12 has done this. Adolescents, are becoming young adults, are thinking, feeling, and believing for themselves. Part of that is the rebellious stage, which last around 25 years. I’m kidding, it only lasts 24. Lol

Rebellious, growing up, standing up to disrespect - all good normal healthy things. She is just starting her path to adulthood, and has taken quite a good step, IMHO.

It is wonderful to read how D12 seems more normal now. An emotionally unhealthy person can cause one to twist and pretzel into such a tight knot. Nice to see D12’s knot has loosened.

I empathize with your feelings of betray regarding your previous cooks and “brothers”. How could they go over to the dark side? Right?

Remember this is not about you. Set your ego aside. You are causing yourself to feel betrayed. (((Hugs)))

It’s been eight long years since their wives left and your BD. Much has happened in your life and their’s. They might need the work. H is probably spinning quite a different narrative. Eight years is a long time, and these guys haven’t been living it; they had their own paths to find. I would lean towards they do not realize how far gone and how much a train wreck H is. They may soon find out. Or maybe not. Maybe H will make a go of the restaurant.

It is interesting how H has queued up the restaurant again. Using his “true friend” as a financial backer. These MLCers are trapped in time, repeating their loops and recreating their events; all while running from their buried torment and pain. H has his friends, even his Mom, encouraging his narrative and reality. We know there is bucket loads of trauma from H’s mom. And she lashed out towards D12; grandma lashing out at her granddaughter to defend her son; which illustrates just where MIL is actually at and how far gone she is as well. H is getting ample reinforcement of his narrative.

MLCers will, are driven to, find people sympathetic to their cause and view of things. Anyone who stands up, or sees differently, is thrown aside. I suspect if D12 will remain strong, her Dad will sharply cease contact. He is blind to her views and feelings, and at the moment stuck repeating his pain.

My kids all suffered experienced similar rebuke from their Mom. And her family/friends went silent towards them. It’s been three and a half years since any of my kids’ (XW’s side) aunts, uncles, great aunts/uncles, cousins, and so on have reached out or returned any contact. Shrug. Blood vs water.

Notice the strike through in the word suffered. I admit, I added that for illustration. At first, suffered would be apt. However, looking back, experienced is all it really is and was. One only suffers that which they allow. Be the captain of your soul. Steer yourself towards strong moral headings and values in life. (Some other encouragement I’d pass on to D12 directly if I could. It did wonders for my kids.)

It is wonderful to hear from you my dear friend. I am so interested in how the court and business side of things is going, and completely understand how difficult it is to find the time to post. Please get some good sleeps (when you can smile ).

D


Feelings are fleeting.
Be better, not bitter.
Love the person, forgive the sin.
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