Happiness

[kml]

But you have the best chance of success getting them to agree to a favourable settlement during that short window while they are feeling guilty or high on affair fumes.

Agreed!!! Mine wasn't particularly fast, but was very straightforward. He has apparently complained for years afterwards even though our financial split was very by the book. The only thing remotely negotiable was whether the alimony would be based on what I was currently making, or what he felt I COULD be making - we split the difference. I traded off the last two years of alimony for something else, (can't remember what) but that would have made no difference because he retired shortly after the abbreviated alimony was done and so I began collecting my share of his pension which is slightly more than the alimony was.

Scout - your H sure sounds like he was already cheating when you got pregnant or right after. His pathological behavior is so extreme. I'm so glad you were able to get out and get the finances settled quickly. I wouldn't sweat the visitation - he's unlikely to take half of what he has, and that may be for the best for your child. (And I would have strangled him over the cheese fries incident - do NOT get between a pregnant woman and her food!)

[may22]

Hi Scout,

I think with distance you can find empathy for these broken people. The idea of looking at your child and not experiencing that primal rush of love, doubting your own parents' love for you... that is all just so sad.

That being said, I still read your description of his behaviors towards you and it makes me so angry. I guess you can't expect a broken person to act in any other way, but it burns me that his outlet was cruelty towards his pregnant wife/new mom and baby son.

So glad that you are on the other side of this, and hoping that you get that parenting plan signed soon.

xx M

[CanBird]

Wow Scout... I'm so sorry for what you've been through. You are doing great mama. I love reading your story. When I first started on this board, I thought success was saving your marriage. It's not. It's about saving yourself. And you are a success.

Keep on Keepin' on

[Gerda]

(((Scout))))

Like you, I didn't realize that these things were signs of a disordered love.

I think for both of us, we mistook our ability to love them for a true mutual love.

I didn't know that anything better was possible, except in fairytales. I am still not sure except that the guys I know here and maybe one other IRL give me the hope that it is possible for a man to keep loving a woman in a True and self-giving way.

And I think that at least in my case, my love did make H try to be his better self. But I guess that ultimately when MLC hit, the mask or the attempt or whatever it was became too hard.

It sounds like your H was struggling with his demons from day one.

[scout12]

Thanks everyone. Even though it’s all done and dusted, it’s nice to know that my experiences are validated. It’s so crazy how your brain is able to justify and excuse that stuff while you’re going through it.

It was interesting to reflect on those times going into S3’s birthday this week. Kind of a bittersweet feeling. While he was two I could still get away with calling him a baby. Although that’s laughable because he’s always been 99th percentile for height and weight and has been mistaken for a four year old since he was two and a half. But regardless, I don’t think you can call a three year old a baby any more

X messaged me at lunchtime on S3’s birthday. He said he would love to talk to him if I could tell him a good time to call. He signed off “hope you are having a great day”. I told him when and he did indeed call right on time; in fact, two minutes early. I put him on speaker and handed the phone to S3.

Now, while it’s true that three year olds are not the greatest conversationalists, my boy can talk the hind leg off a donkey. But this call was awkward. It was the obligatory call you have with a distant relative who doesn’t know you that well. To be fair, it was the first time he’s ever talked to his dad on the phone.

How was your day? “Good”.
Did you get any presents? “Yes”. What did you get? (silence from S3)
Are you being a good boy for Mama? Are you doing the dishes and helping with cooking? “Yes” (weird question, but he does help me in the kitchen)
Are you lying? Sounds like you’re lying (X laughed). “No, I’m not”.
Are you happy? “Yes”
I miss you. “I miss you too”
Do you want to have a party on Sunday? “Yes” What do you want to eat? (silence from S3)
I love you (silence from S3, then after about ten seconds he said “I love you”)

By comparison, when we video chat with my parents S3 rambles on and on, asks them questions, volunteers information etc. After five minutes on the phone with his dad, S3 said “Mama, I want to say goodbye to him.” On a positive note, he also said he wanted to give him a kiss and a cuddle. X said “you will on Sunday, okay? I promise.”

About half an hour after the call, I got a text from X.

Thank you for that, I really appreciate it

[Gerda]

Ugh, heartwrenching for S and for who H used to be. You handled it well, Scout!

[kml]

Who asks a 3 year old if he’s helping do the dishes??? I think your ex needs some education on child development!

At least the rest of the call was appropriate and your ex is behaving himself. I think the best one can hope for with someone on the narcissist/ sociopath spectrum like him, is that he will act like a good father so that he will look good in the eyes of others. This will probably happen more when he has a girlfriend observing his actions and less during times that he’s single.

My (much more benign) narcissistic ex looked like a great dad - so long as they were participating in the activities that HE wanted to do, and so long as they made him look good. Once they got older, developed adolescent issues, became more troubled - he became less and less of a dad. I hope your ex stays in relationships with women that he will want to “look good in front of”.

[scout12]

Gerda, I want to call attention to something you posted.

I am still not sure except that the guys I know here and maybe one other IRL give me the hope that it is possible for a man to keep loving a woman in a True and self-giving way.

Here's the thing. I am happy to do 50/50 in a relationship. Loving like a man is easy. I can meet him halfway. I can split the bills. I can be there for him when it’s convenient for me. I can hang out with him as long as it doesn’t interfere with my plans. I can pass time with him when I have nothing better to do or anyone better to see. I can be his “equal”.

I could easily love like a man.

But I’m a 100% kind of girl. I don’t meet people halfway. I am all or nothing. So until I find someone that will meet me at 100%, I will save all of that effort for me and my child.

Dearest women, you know exactly what you are willing to give. You know you love 100%, so don’t settle for 50/50. Two halves do not make a whole when it comes to relationships. If it's not 100/100, you are being exploited. Until you find a man that loves you like a woman would, save that love for yourself.

I, too, question whether men have what it takes to love like a woman. We live with the danger of being molested in public places, routinely harassed at work, sacrificing our bodies to give birth, breaking our backs to maintain a household, being used for sex over and over, while simultaneously being slut-shamed, then eventually abandoned for a younger model of ourselves, raising that man's children while he feeds his impulses and addictions into oblivion...

To live amidst all that and STILL continue to give endlessly of yourself...

That is what it is to love like a woman.

ETA: and that is why the number one attitude to break in our children to prevent them ending up here in twenty, thirty, forty years is ENTITLEMENT. Especially those of us raising boys.

Happy Valentine's Day

[DnJ]

Good Morning scout

Loving like a man is easy. I can meet him halfway. I can split the bills. I can be there for him when it’s convenient for me. I can hang out with him as long as it doesn’t interfere with my plans. I can pass time with him when I have nothing better to do or anyone better to see. I can be his “equal”.

I could easily love like a man.

But I’m a 100% kind of girl. I don’t meet people halfway. I am all or nothing.

You are projecting H’s poor qualities upon men.

Men love 100%. Trust me on this!

I, too, question whether men have what it takes to love like a woman. We live with the danger of being molested in public places, routinely harassed at work, sacrificing our bodies to give birth, breaking our backs to maintain a household, being used for sex over and over, while simultaneously being slut-shamed, then eventually abandoned for a younger model of ourselves, raising that man's children while he feeds his impulses and addictions into oblivion...

Perhaps you never read my thread.

Men do not have the market on irrational, immoral, deceitful, manipulative, lying, cheating, filthy, family-destroying, self-distructive behaviours.

We too break our backs maintaining home and house. We too get use and abused for sex, for money, for home and hearth (to name a few). We too get abandoned. We get shamed and ridiculed and commonly blamed and prejudged (case in point).

People have an incredible ability for evil. And an incredible ability for good. Gender plays little part in that. It takes two to cheat!

I am a man. And a damn fine one at that. Honourable, loyal, faithful, truthful, sincere, reliable, and loving.

I’m sorry you are hurting from XH’s inadequacies. (((Hugs)))

Love

D

[Gerda]

I gotta disagree with you both! I think a man's love is very different from a woman's, and that's what I like about it!

And I don't agree, DnJ, that you know how to give love 100%. I would say you know how to give love 670,616,629%, which is also the speed of electricmagnetic waves and light.

I love how a man loves! It's very different from how a woman loves, and I love receiving that kind of love and giving my 100% woman love. I love to write characters who can do that and to read about them in great lit. I did receive it enough to know what it is -- it's just those guys either didn't want to keep me or it was fleeting or conditional, like my H. Or I guess with my H it wasn't so much conditional as totally disordered and ultimately was potentially a mask for a lack of love.

Ultimately, whether you are a faith person or not, I think that Paul's admonition on this is the key to it all. What he tells each of us to do indicates what is hardest for each of us to do --

In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body...This is a profound mystery...However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

It's kind of the men are from mars and women are from venus idea -- in other words -- he had to tell wives to respect their husbands because that doesn't come as naturally to us as love. We women often think a man has to earn our respect and are mystified as to how our loving love is not understood or having the impact we want it to. Likewise, respect is very natural to a man, but the raw and open heart required for love comes less naturally to men, who may be less driven by feelings or less in touch with them or who were taught to block them. (Except you, DnJ. But not totally. I've always said that detachment might come naturally easier to you than me, and your being a man may be part of it.) Paul has to tell the men to love and the women to respect because he knows it comes hard to each side and that the other side is longing for it. A great book on this is called, Love and Respect but I see the idea in secular books too, including one that perhaps maybe one or two of you just might have heard of before called, Divorce Busting.

I regularly watch my friends who seem to have decent marriages subtly tear their husbands down though they truly love them. And likewise I regularly have watched my guy friends stumble around the fragile hearts of their wives though they truly respect them.

I know that MLC was not my fault, and now, deep on this journey, I realize that my H may have been battling his mental health demons from day one, but I also did a lot of work to change myself the first few years, and I know that I was a very loving and self-sacrificing wife but really not woman who showed her husband that she respected and admired him very often. I don't think that would have changed the path of MLC, but it has already changed my interactions with men and maybe one day will allow me to be a better wife to someone. When I'm like 80.

And that is my two cents on this topic. Flame away, posters! : )