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#2914387 02/04/21 06:01 PM
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CanBird Offline OP
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Let The Negotiations Begin!


Here we go! The time has come for me to reach out, and being negotiations with xh, on taking over the house. (Received conditional Loan Approval) We are both on the title/deed. The decree states we sell & split. However, we both must agree on everything going into the sale. *It is what it is…. I was emotional & signed under duress.*XH sent me an email months ago, in early December asking me what my “plans were”. In simple terms, he stated, “I think selling would be the best option…. unless you can buy me out somehow”. I never did reply to the email. I literally just searched and didn’t see a thing. I’m sure I mentioned something somewhere, in a text.. like we want to stay in the house…but we’ve never REALLY talked.

SO, here we go. Where to start? I start here, with you all of course…lol… I appreciate, and do listen to the opinions of family & friends, but they really don’t understand the MLCer/WAS person that xh has become. Heck, I don’t really know who I’m dealing with either, other than he does not communicate. I’ve said this before, hopefully with the topic of the house as the subject, he’ll take part

Communication with xh: Because this IS a serious matter, that needs attention, I need to get his attention. I need to draw him in to read his email and get the conversation going there, on email.
What to say? “House plans. Let’s discuss. See email.” How’s that for starters? To the point? My loan lady said to get negotiating, get things and writing (I can do this myself) and get him to sign. Easier said than done, when I still have no idea where in the world xh is… but believe he’s probably with ow in the EU. Or they are traveling (insert barf emoji here). ANY way…. Once that’s done, we know where we stand. The rest will get taken care of at closing… (house gets signed over to me/he gets removed from the title & his payment is deposited to him). Oh how I enjoyed listening to my loan walk me through this. EMPOWERING! I AM EXCITED to be at this point! YES EXCITED!!

Okay, so, I throw out the bait for xh. He’s still a duck (THE BIG DUCK) And I’m Elmer J Fudd.. (most of you will get that reference…lol… Once xh takes the bait, then the negotiations really begin.

Debt facts FACTS: There’s a mortgage..in deferral .. until April & a home loan. He’s the borrower on both. Decree says we pay off both, if house sells & I get a larger portion in return because my dad gifted the down payment to get the house (again, nothing in decree about buying the other out.. it is what it is).

My loan lady suggested saying, “I’ve been pre-approved for a loan. I’d like to discuss the house”.

My father: “I’ve been pre-approved for a loan. I’ll assume all debts, the home loan & mortgage, in return, you sign the house over to me”.

My friend, wants to go in gentle and then if needed, come punching and kicking with things like, “This is D4’s home… you ABANDON us. I signed that agreement under duress. We can revisit that. A judge would see that I’m entitled to x,y,z.”…

I see everyone’s point. In the end, it’s up to me. What would you say? I know I’ve asked this before, but this duck is actually getting lined up. Before it was just bobbing in the water..

Ps- I’m also working with a wonderful accountant & I LOVE HER! Great when you speak to someone that gets your situation and wants to see you get what you need.

pss- Talking to a NEW guy online.. just chatting. Great distraction.

psss- I managed to separate the roots from the stump and remove a large portion of the problem. A lot of work still needed to fix things, but that’s all small stuff.


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Ok, Can, I'm going to jump in here.

Do not do what your friend suggested. That makes it antagonistic from the get go. Remember, if you start nice in a negotiation, you have a place to go. If you start rude/demanding/or hostile, you have nowhere to go.

I say go with the loan lady suggestion. You start neutral and get a read what he is thinking, if anything. You can always add detail later.

He wants two things presumably:
1. Off the loan;
2. Some cash.

My guess is that he also wants:
3. D4 to have a stable home;
4. Not to feel like a real dirtball to Can.

Therefore, don't go with dad's suggestion. With interest rates, etc., a new loan is the way to go. Forget the old. Don't bring up the past. Look forward, and not back. Likely less guilt for him. Use the debts as negotiation against the payout price.

Then if and when he responds. Ask him what he wants to do before you tell him anything. That's your only chance to potentially hear that. You can always tell what you want or what the concerns are with his approach.

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Originally Posted by CanBird
Okay, so, I throw out the bait for xh. He’s still a duck (THE BIG DUCK) And I’m Elmer J Fudd.. (most of you will get that reference…lol… Once xh takes the bait, then the negotiations really begin.
Wabbit season!

Originally Posted by CanBird
My loan lady suggested saying, “I’ve been pre-approved for a loan. I’d like to discuss the house”.
Don't show too much of your hand. Saying you've been pre-approved begs him to ask the question of "for how much".

One thing that worked with my ex-wife on the utility bills for example was pointing out that she had no control over them but was still responsible. She hustled and got her name off of those quickly.

I was pre-approved for probably 60% over what the equity was in the house. But my offer to my ex was for her portion of the equity and then I think about 10% more in case as a spousal payment. I rolled it all into my mortgage and still ended up with a good bit of room. That extra money though was very useful during bargaining as I knew exactly what my limits were.

I've not followed your story CanBird but if it follows the typical pattern your xh will just want to sever ties, not be responsible for any past debts and get what cash he can out of you. Some are nastier and want it all and to leave the behind spouse with nothing but from what I've seen most just want their precious freedom.


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I agree with OwnIt 100%. I would follow the suggestions of the loan lady. Do not do what your friend or your father stated because you will end up paying more than is necessary. The debts are bargaining chips only to be brought out during negotiation of the payout price.

Try to keep things neutral and calm. The less you come out swinging the better your chances are of getting what you want or darn near close to what you want.


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Good Morning Can

Do not reveal your hand. One of the easiest and hardest things to do in leading and negotiating is let the other person speak first.

Open up a dialog and then be silent. Most people cannot take silence and fill it in. An emotional person will blurt out all kinds of things. Hopefully XH suggests something more or less in line with what you are considering. That would make it “his” idea, from his point of view. MLCers ping pong about quite a bit. Something they feel is from them has a better chance of them sticking to it.

Coming out guns a blazing will have XH dig in. Best to remain calm throughout the entire process.

As Own stated XH presumably wants off the loan and cash. Remember to keep this business and focused on your goal.

I would suggest you tell XH little. Simple and to open the door. Hi XH. Call me, I’d like to discuss the house.

See where he takes this. You know your goals. Work with whatever happens next, to reach them.

D


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Why do you have to reveal any of that?

"Hi, H. I decided to get the sale of the property settled now, but as a buy out instead of a third party sale. Do you want to split an appraisal or each get our own and take the average?"

That's all you need to say.

Your agreement says that you split the proceeds. The proceeds are whatever is left after paying off the mortgage and any other debts. In this case, you ask the mortgage company for a pay off letter and just subtract that amount from the appraised value and subtract any other debts you are supposed to cover and pay him half of the result. He doesn't have to know how you are getting that money, that's none of his beeswax. All he has to know is the amount and the date he gets the check.

As far as I know, my H is the only one on these boards dastardly enough to force an LBS with kids to play the market to see if he can get a higher price.

If he says yes to the above, you can have your accountant's take on the capital gains issue and how to structure the buy out to make sure the cost basis is correct. You can also see if you can get a credit for half what a broker would have been paid, at least as a bargaining chip. Get the agreement signed as quickly as possible and say that he will be paid within ninety days of signature so you have time to get your DUCKS in a row. : )

Last edited by Gerda; 02/05/21 04:32 PM.

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Fridays interview went well. It was via video with 3 panelists. I was the only one with video on; the rest audio only. One of the panelists showed himself at the beginning & end.

I sent a thank you follow up this morning. Minutes after that, they spoke to my Dr/dentist employer, for a reference. The Dr txt me right after the call ....


Just got off phone with him...he said, "wow she sounds great, we are in the final stages of selecting our candidates so this is very good to know." Couldn't get any other info from him, but it sounded super promising, and I told him there wasn't anyone who would be more professional and compassionate than you to work with our veterans. keep me posted.



Wow. I was blown away. I knew he'd have nice things to say., and this really made my day. smile

That's that ducky situation. Nothing else in the water. Floating around a few thoughts before I got hunting wink


~Never Give Up ~
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Mar BD
June BD
Dec Aow/xgf
2020
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Feb he flys2 ow
Mar returns stuck here C19 Lckdwn
Apr he leaves for work until Nov
Oct D FINAL 2020
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Oooh, fingers crossed!!!! Sounds promising!

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No contact since.....Christmas. This Ducks migration pattern is unknown...okay, enough of the silliness.

I drafted this up as the first... bread crumb. The first few words are critical. I need for his interest to be peaked enough to click and read the full context. In doing so, I will know (within a certain app) that he's actually received and read it. You can't always get that certainty with all msgs. It is what it is. And...here it is:


House Plans: Let's discuss moving forward. Coming to an agreement, where D4 and I remain in the home. Where would you like to start?



Thoughts?

I'll be working on a letter as well, the one he'll sign. I'm putting it out there to the universe. Let's see it through.


~Never Give Up ~
2019
Mar BD
June BD
Dec Aow/xgf
2020
Jan he wants D
Feb he flys2 ow
Mar returns stuck here C19 Lckdwn
Apr he leaves for work until Nov
Oct D FINAL 2020
Living MY Happiest Life Ever
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Originally Posted by CanBird
House Plans: Let's discuss moving forward. Coming to an agreement, where D4 and I remain in the home. Where would you like to start?
Hmmmm - not sure.

Assuming your ex is typical he would be both lazy and wanting to be in control. I know for me that it helped to present une fait accompli. Given options you can perhaps expect him to bounce around and nothing to be accomplished.

Less is often more otherwise the ducks wander around and make a mess on the lawn. Given that you know him the best would you say that given a clear proposal he would take that and then go off and play with the fairies?

There were some key components to how I got my own deal:
- knowing that she was greedy and wanted both my and OM's money
- knowing that she would never start working on anything hard
- knowing that there was a certain amount of guilt and "not wanting to be the bad guy"
- knowing that she had always relied on me to be the organized one
- knowing that she believed me to be completely honest and trustworthy
- knowing that she didn't want her dirty laundry aired in public or in court

Now - I don't actually "know" if what I "knew" was true or what she actually did believe. For one thing, I believe she wanted out of the house. In the final days she complained about it and I did know that OM had a decent little house already. Turned out she was highly offended by the suggestion that she didn't "need" or "want" the house.

The proposal she accepted with modifications was as a deal where I bought her out of her equity in the house, gave her a lump sum of money and then a fixed amount of spousal support for a fixed period of time. AND a clause that neither party would for any reason re-open the agreement. So she could be with OM and not have me chasing after arguing that she no longer needed spousal support. As my lawyer pointed out to me, people will lie about all sorts of things.

So - she was able to get out of the house, get "her due amount", and never be accountable to me for her past or future actions.

Your own path will of course depend on where your own ducks roam.


On BD
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T27, M26
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BD-9-Mar-16
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I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good.
But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
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