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Nick,

I read in a book once that it takes 7 positive interactions to offset 1 negative interaction for resentment not to build. It's nearly impossible for resentment not to build in long-term marriages.

Again this was a likely outcome. Your W does not view cheating as you do.

More then likely she wore a mask for 27 years.

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W and I spoke to D18 with wife about school stuff D18 is not completing. I asked W to do the talking because I've been on both kids and W has been kind of undermining me. This is an issue that I raised in November when W was thick into OM and not paying attention to whats going on in the house.

W starts and she makes her point. And she keeps going on and on reiterating the same point. D18 starts crying a little but W keeps going. I finally tell W she need to stop and she asks me, wait I thought you wanted me to be the heavy. I said but everything that needed be said has been said.

Now W looks a little dazed, like why did I want her to stop. I go over to D18 and hug her, tell her we just want her to live up to her potential. W is still standing there in a daze and I tell her go hug your daughter. W says what? I said go hug your daughter. W snaps out of it and hugs D18, crises averted for now. And its a nice tender moment beause they obviously love eact other and W just wants whats best for D18.

W and I leave the room and I ask do you want a little constructive criticism, and if you don't thats ok. She agrees. I tell her the exchange with D18 happened many times between me and you. You get on a roll and dont stop, and the other person is ovrwhelmed and just shuts down. W surprises me and actually acknowledgs.

W says we let he kids get away with a lot and its true. I say maybe we should have them join the Army. Then W tells me a story about her friend who I know and her experiences in the Amy. And we effortlessly fell into this conversation, just like old times.

And I start to feel uncomfortable, because the story, while not intimate, was kind of personal, like between a H and W, and thats not where we are. So I kind of cut it off because even though I enjoyed talking, and during the M, when we weren't arguing (which was most of the time) we talked for hours

I also kind of wondered if WWs have those kind of talks with OMs, or do they just have pillow talk and laugh about their LBS.


Me 57/W 53, M 23, T 27

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Okay, first, if you want your W to handle it then you need to let her handle it. Nick, you are a lot like I was, you seem to treat your WAW/WW like a child.

I like the approach on the constructive criticism, offering it but not forcing it on her. Well done. And on ending the conversation about the friend's Army experience. Well done.

But just like the discussion about the driver's license, try not to father your W. That could have been one of the issues in your MR that brought you to this point. I know it was in mine and I was appreciative to the posters here that pointed that out to me during my sitch.

"I also kind of wondered if WWs have those kind of talks with OMs, or do they just have pillow talk and laugh about their LBS."

Cheeseless tunnel. Why go down it?


M(53), W(54),D(19)
M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
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Thanks LH, her journal shows wnen she was single, she was the OW, that was trying to gain some validation by getting her man. I never saw any indications of her being a cheater during most of the marriage like in a PA. Could she have been in EA. I know she would not share the password to her email, which I thought was kind of odd.

When I confronted her about her bubble bath phone call, she claimed to have two male confidants that she shared stuff wit since high school. If thats true, i do consider that somewhat cheating.

It was only recent that she had been on the phone a lot and did not allow anyone to see the screen and she had unexplained absences.

If you are saying now that she does not think she is cheating I agree.

So I guess what I'm saying is there was some sort of dishonesty during the whole relationship, which rose to her having a PA when she BD or maybe before.


Me 57/W 53, M 23, T 27

D21/D17

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Steve spot on for the criticism of the driver license discussion. That was pointless I never should have broght that up, it served no purpose.

As for the most recent convo with D18, I stepped in only when I felt that it was abusive, but didn't contradict W in any way.

As for treating WAW/WW like a child, it's true. i've even told her in the past, I'm not your Dad, you need to figure this out on your own. I felt like during the relationship I was trying to get her to be responsible, to up her game. I think all I got was a lot of resentment.

Last edited by NickWing; 01/28/21 05:07 PM.

Me 57/W 53, M 23, T 27

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So, you've been IHS since October. What is the purpose or goal here? Are you hoping to out wait her waywardness? Do you believe she'll come to her senses and want to save the M?


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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No, I’m looking for a place now and we will be selling the house in the summer as both kids will be in college. The advice here is to not leave and when I caught her in the bubble bath on face time I was reluctant to leave because I thought that was really reckless behavior as we had kids in the house. I had images of Oms parading through the front door past my kids on the way to the bedroom.

I know she doesn’t want to save the marriage. I actually have more coaching paid for but I don’t really think there is much point. So I think we are pretty much done. I was pretty much NC for three weeks in January because we both took trip. I was actually annoyed when we had to email about D18 school.

Is she wayward or ww. Idk. I know she gets all dressed up once or twice a week and runs meaningless “errands” but she’s not at night or overnight. She’s having some sort of affair, but no tattoos piercings. She had her teeth whitened but kind of stopped working out.


Me 57/W 53, M 23, T 27

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Originally Posted by NickWing
I actually have more coaching paid for but I don’t really think there is much point.

Hopefully, the coaches you hired also have skill in helping you move forward with your life--e.g., no contact, working through baggage, crafting your new life solo--and eventually finding a great partner.

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They are the D B coaches.


Me 57/W 53, M 23, T 27

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Quote
Is she wayward or ww. Idk. I know she gets all dressed up once or twice a week and runs meaningless “errands” but she’s not at night or overnight. She’s having some sort of affair, but no tattoos piercings. She had her teeth whitened but kind of stopped working out.


LOL! Sorry, the sitch is not funny. I'm amused at your descriptions. (By the way, wayward wife=WW.) The outward things you see is evidence of rebellion. Every box may not be checked for every person. Not every WW is going to get tattoos, piercings, or stay out all night. Waywardness holds an attitude of harsh resentment, disrespect, extreme self centeredness.....and rebellion. I could include a lot of other negative things, like deceit, blame, lies, loss of attraction for her H, owning no responsibility, etc. The one thing that might stand out (or not) is the hardness of her heart. She can put on an act when it suits her, but she carries a cold, hard heart. This shows up in her attitude, speech, and actions.

The main difference in a walk-away wife and a wayward wife, is that the WAW doesn't have a hidden agenda that involves another man, or GGW activity. The WW does. The WAW doesn't act out in rebellion. The WW does.

What is it that made you decide she was having a MLC? Was it her age? You know, every woman that gets older doesn't go into a crisis and start acting like some crazy alien. I think a lot of H's just assume it must be MLC, since the age fits. Did your W suffer some trauma in her childhood (like abuse, molestation, etc.)? Did her mother go through MLC?


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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