Tom, I wish you and Sally nothing but the best and hope for happiness for you two. I sincerely do. There are always exceptions, and maybe you'll be. But in general, in the vast majority of cases, starting a new R when you have unresolved feelings and business with a previous person will end poorly. That is why dating before coming to closure with the Mr that is ending is not encouraged. We've talked before about the statistics regarding 2nd and 3rd marriages, and I think a big reason for those statistics is people jumping right into something new too quickly.
Tom, it is your life. Don't let strangers on the internet "sting" you. Maybe you'll be the exception, and it isn't like you don't have history with Sally. But for her sake you need to be honest with yourself. What would you tell Sally if your W wanted to R? What would you do?
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Completely true. Posters must post at a frequency in which you approve of and only say what you want to hear, in the way you want to hear it. If not, you get rude and mean and belittle others.
You came here looking for advice and left out something that would change how and what people post to you. In the same breath, you accused people of not asking for all the information saying their assessments are wrong because they don’t know anything.
Basically, if you lied to us about sally for months, how is anyone supposed to trust what you post and put forth valuable advice?
Now you only call on a few folks for the purpose of validating your “progress” when for 6 months you’ve not been truthful.
by prior arrangement, please loiter somewhere else.
Your reply to LH indicates not much improvement in listening. Being able and willing to listen to criticism is a key relationship skill, useful in business, too. I LOVE when my customers complain. That attitude sometimes catches them by surprise, but without criticism, it's harder to decide what to improve on next.
Better Replies--
1. "I get you don't feel I considered your advice to do X. I did, I just felt X wasn't right for me because of Y. I'd definitely like to hear what you think about me and Sally so I can get it right." 2. "I value any advice you're kind enough to offer about Sally and I. 3. "I'm listening."
I'm sure you've grown in other areas. I recall you have a list? Consider adding this! If I recall correctly your ex-wife asked for therapy, indicated communication was a problem, and now won't talk to you. Make listening a habit, so it's easy even on a hard day after your honeymoon period with Sally.
Back after a four-week hiatus. I needed some time to figure out a few things. I will be responding to previous comments in a bit.
I want to reiterate some things that were said earlier. Some of the advice came from Steve85.
I'm going to ignore comments from people who don't have my best interests at heart, whose motives are not edifying. You know who you are. Your motives are very clear, you want to criticize and hurt and throw zingers. Look inside your own hearts at your motives. And by "edifying" I include criticism as long as it's constructive and not personal. I received and accepted a lot of jarring yet constructive criticism here during my first few weeks. Later on I got some from may22 which I very much took to heart.
To the rest of you -- I don't say this because those with the dirty motives are personally hurtful. I didn't get to be a senior exec at a tech company because I didn't have thick skin and know how to thrust and parry with the best; and also get pretty good at assessing motive when someone starts talking. In the workplace, people with dirty motives don't last long in my meetings or on my staff.
Like everyone else here, I am a work in progress. If you don't like something I said, be patient and see how it develops over time. Demanding things through a keyboard is never effective. Also, it takes time for someone to recognize good advice, wisdom or common sense. It might not happen the first time those words are put on a page here in DB. So accusing me of "not listening" is ... well, perhaps premature. Maybe what was said needs some time to simmer. Or maybe what was said was baloney. People need time to process information, and processing isn't instant. And not all advice given here is good advice. We can all equally be the judge of that.
Final point. I was accused of being dishonest for not telling about the relationship with Sally upfront. But please hear me out before concluding such. When I joined DB last August I wanted a perspective on the things I didn't understand yet -- the end of my marriage. Saying, "I already have a girlfriend" would have distracted from the perspective I really needed, which was "why did my wife leave me?" Girlfriend or not, that was a legitimate burning question I had, and the answer is independent of whether I was seeing someone. And, when Steve and Vapo and others were saying emphatically "don't date!" my cheeks blushed because, while I respected their opinions, I was already involved with someone and couldn't undo it. I knew I would eventually have to reveal the relationship, but I wanted to explore the other things first.
Like any good book, not all parts of the story need be told in chapter 1. At least that's what I had been thinking when I joined DB. Still -- to those of you who claim it was deceptive anyway, I plead guilty. But my intentions were not to be deceptive.
Now on to some thanks. Everyone was extremely helpful here on DB during my early few weeks, and the information was pretty jarring. I was told not to be a victim. I learned about WAWs and LBHs; I read that WAW testimony that brought me to tears because I could hear my STBXW saying those very words. I learned about the three DB principles and took them to heart; they have been the centerpiece of much of my therapy since last fall and I also have discussed them in depth with Sally. Rose's comment about love languages was also immensely helpful; I had heard about them but not taken them seriously, and now Sally and I talk about them all the time. DB has been immensely helpful for me, and I am eternally grateful to DBers for having been part of that.
OK. Enough said. Happy to dialogue about this further.
You may be overestimating your own importance when you accuse people of having it out for you. At worst, people are commenting because they're bored. At best, people are trying to help you realise your blindspots.
I guarantee that nobody is lying in wait on your thread, rubbing their hands with glee whenever you post, asking themselves 'how can I f*ck Tom's sh!t up today?'
With all due respect, you are not important enough to have haters. None of us are. We are all just anonymous chumps fumbling along in life trying to do the least amount of harm.
(Pretty sure I'm on the ban list so not expecting a response, but I encourage you to keep working on humility and self-awareness in therapy).
Tom, what would be useful to understand is that most of us here have been the recipients of a lot of deceit and lies at the hands of our WS. So you can understand why people on here have a low tolerance for dishonesty and BS. Your initial posts talk about being single, getting ready to star dating again, etc. it’s not a great look. Add to that your aggressive and defensive nature and it’s not hard to see why you have clashed with many on here.
That said this is a great roadmap for areas that you could focus improving yourself. I know that I used to resort to being defensive and argumentative, once I started to see these traits in myself and others I realised how ugly traits they are.
Me: 41 W:42 T: 14 M: 11 S: 6
"What happened happened, and couldn't have happened any other way...because it didn't"
I just read an article on how narcissists are very successful at work. Tom, that article came back to me as I read your latest post and you pointed out your success as an IT executive. What scout wrote also resonates along those same lines. I hope you will take that as an outsider making an observation, and not a personal attack. I don't know you well enough to attack you personally. (That was another thought I had reading your post, how can strangers on the internet personally attack another stranger on the internet?)
Hope all is going well Tom.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I'm going to ignore comments from people who don't have my best interests at heart, whose motives are not edifying. You know who you are. Your motives are very clear, you want to criticize and hurt and throw zingers.
Hi Tom,
We can only guess at what motives you ascribe to us. I've interacted enough with scout, OnlyBent, Steve, and myself much more than you. I doubt they or I have the motivation of hurting you.
Originally Posted by Tom
Look inside your own hearts at your motives.
Hm? To help Tom, within the 15min I have before my son's breakfast warms up, lol. I like helping people and this forum. I spent a minute considering if I was or wasn't on your ignore list and whether to have a cup of joe before or after. To the first point, figuring out was too much work. To the second point, a cup of joe after sounds better when I'm in no rush. So, I wrote this message to you with care!
I'll mention my last message again, and support much of what Scout, OnlyBent, and Steve said. I get some of their or my advice may be blunt, or not in the form you want from free advice. These are genuine perspectives from real people, offered from a place somewhere between boredom and a desire to help. I have interacted with these people for months or years, and suspect more of the later. I'm glad you feel Tom 2.0 is an upgrade, and you're enjoying life (last you told us) with your new girlfriend.
I'm sure you've grown in other areas. I recall you have a list? Consider adding this! If I recall correctly your ex-wife asked for therapy, indicated communication was a problem, and now won't talk to you. Make listening a habit, so it's easy even on a hard day after your honeymoon period with Sally.
Thank you and this is excellent advice I took to heart, in fact many months ago.
One of the things I learned (therapy has helped a lot here) is that respect is so central to all relationships, and is even more central than communication, only because if you live a life of respect then communication almost becomes automatic!
We are all guilty of not listening actively, especially when our spouse, SO, or close friend is talking too long about something that is not of interest to us. Sure, we might claim to respect that spouse, but if we really REALLY respected them we would actively listen not when it's important to us, but when it's important to them. Especially then.
I've been working on this actively with Sally. Sometimes I even take notes. Usually it's about those friends of hers that I can't meet because of covid, or something about her mother or family. If the topic comes up a month later, and I remember itsy bitsy details that everyone else forgets, I get a wonderful reaction -- "Tom, you remember that? Thank you!'
To me at least, communication problems are often the result of putting up walls, or being unreachable, or not caring enough. If I can respect those I love enough to care about what they care about, and try to be consistently good at it, then I think I have taken a big first step.
My ex would have called me a terrible communicator. She would be right, although we had both fallen into this pattern. But here we are with a broken marriage, and Tom 2.0 is doing his darndest, as if he were a teenager, to show more respect and through that be a better listener and communicator.
