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Originally Posted by SaltyDog
The big reason I want to detach right now is to protect myself from more pain. As long as I am getting a jolt of anxiety every time my phone goes off, or wake up in the middle of the night and can't go back to sleep because all the thoughts come pouring in, or getting gutted when the next bomb gets dropped, I feel like I can't be free. As long as some part of me is still including her in my decision making in any way - what will she think, what effect will it have on her - the I can't be free. And it seems like until I truly detach, those things will keep happening.


Focus on the bolded print ^^^^

Making YOUR choices and decisions will help you get there...

Focusing on YOUR decisions will help you detach.

Double edge sword there....

Chin up buddy, it will come in time....



Originally Posted by SDawg
This has been challenging for me because I've gone from blaming her for everything and being resentful to focusing on myself and how my actions contributed. From there, it is easy to start feeling guilty and upset with yourself because hindsight is 20/20. I'm trying to work on this and cut out the negative self-talk and all that stuff, but those parts are hard to set free.



When you laser focus on yourself, and your actions...

Be totally honest with yourself about what is real, and what isn't..

Own your crap, and let the rest go...

You can only address what is yours...


Originally Posted by SDawg
Yup, it is. And the day of the week should be irrelevant, and when it comes to core values it is, but when it comes to emotions and how I feel and what I want to do and if I'm angry/sad/jealous/hopeful or something else - that rollercoaster won't stop. I try to be mindful, to note things, to try and put space between me and them, and sometimes it helps but most of the time I'm thinking "Yeah, I'm mindful of how sh!tty I'm feeling right now!!!"


Then focus on you, and your core values...

What are they ?

Am I showing them, or hiding behind them ?

Dawg, this is a process...

It takes time...

Remember that nothing you did, was done intentionally to hurt anyone (I would hope)...

Learn from your mistakes, then dust off and get back on that horse...

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Been a few days so thought I'd share an update. Things have been OK of late, mostly because I have stopped most of my detaching in order to make Xmas as good as possible given the circumstances. There have been a few occasions where she has brought up my being distant, ignoring her, etc. and I've mostly shrugged it off. She also found a couple of books in our Amazon account I bought about separation and recovery from betrayal. I wasn't trying to hide them or be sneaky so I told her I was working on me. She sent a snarky reply about how that doesn't seem to involve being vulnerable (she's big on Brene Brown) or open with her since I've been so distant. I calmly replied that I can't be vulnerable without trust and I can't trust her if she's on dating sites. She replied "OK" and dropped it. I didn't push it and am not going to until after Xmas where I plan to lay out 2 options - 1. We decide to work on us, I will be open and vulnerable, and she will stop all dating. 2. She won't stop all dating and we will go from this soft separation into a full one where I can move on and fully detach. My guess is it will be option 2.

Since she's been back though she has told me repeatedly how good I look and how I've lost weight and added muscle. She's liking that, lol. I've also continued to GAL, going to jiu jitsu and getting my butt kicked whenever I can, reading reading reading, and booked a whale watching trip on a zodiac and a deep sea fishing trip for when I'm down at the coast.

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Originally Posted by SaltyDog
Been a few days so thought I'd share an update. Things have been OK of late, mostly because I have stopped most of my detaching in order to make Xmas as good as possible given the circumstances.

What does stop detaching mean to you? I think you may be confused to what detachment means.

Originally Posted by SaltyDog
She also found a couple of books in our Amazon account I bought about separation and recovery from betrayal. I wasn't trying to hide them or be sneaky so I told her I was working on me.

This seems like manipulation on your part.

Originally Posted by SaltyDog
She sent a snarky reply about how that doesn't seem to involve being vulnerable (she's big on Brene Brown) or open with her since I've been so distant. I calmly replied that I can't be vulnerable without trust and I can't trust her if she's on dating sites. She replied "OK" and dropped it. I didn't push it and am not going to until after Xmas where I plan to lay out 2 options - 1. We decide to work on us, I will be open and vulnerable, and she will stop all dating. 2. She won't stop all dating and we will go from this soft separation into a full one where I can move on and fully detach. My guess is it will be option 2.

My suggestion would be just to move to option 2. If she brings up working on the marriage you can discuss it at that time.

Originally Posted by SaltyDog
Since she's been back though she has told me repeatedly how good I look and how I've lost weight and added muscle. She's liking that, lol.

It's standard WW manipulation.

Originally Posted by SaltyDog
I've also continued to GAL, going to jiu jitsu and getting my butt kicked whenever I can, reading reading reading, and booked a whale watching trip on a zodiac and a deep sea fishing trip for when I'm down at the coast.

This is good stuff. Keep it up!


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Quote
She sent a snarky reply about how that doesn't seem to involve being vulnerable (she's big on Brene Brown) or open with her since I've been so distant.
I'm anxiously awaiting the day that the amateur psychologists and wannabe experts put the word "vulnerable" into the vocabulary graveyard. I've heard that word more in the last couple years than I've ever heard in my life. Obviously you're W is in lala land if she thinks you should be opening up with her right now.

Quote
I didn't push it and am not going to until after Xmas where I plan to lay out 2 options - 1. We decide to work on us, I will be open and vulnerable, and she will stop all dating. 2. She won't stop all dating and we will go from this soft separation into a full one where I can move on and fully detach. My guess is it will be option 2.

Skip the part of the plan where you layout 2 options to her and proceed with option 2. If she was open to option 1 you'd know it.

No reason to stop detaching.

She is not your woman, so continue to act like it.


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Originally Posted by LH19
What does stop detaching mean to you? I think you may be confused to what detachment means.

Stopping communication beyond necessary family needs? Maybe I'm confusing it with going dark.
Originally Posted by LH19
This seems like manipulation on your part.
Probably was in some ways, but the books were 100% worth it.
Originally Posted by LH19
My suggestion would be just to move to option 2. If she brings up working on the marriage you can discuss it at that time.
That's a good idea. Hadn't thought of that. Thank you!

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Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
I'm anxiously awaiting the day that the amateur psychologists and wannabe experts put the word "vulnerable" into the vocabulary graveyard. I've heard that word more in the last couple years than I've ever heard in my life. Obviously you're W is in lala land if she thinks you should be opening up with her right now.

I get why she wanted me to be more "vulnerable" back before this all happened. I was anything but. I come from a long line of Stoic Finnish folk who aren't big on showing emotion. I do now see how this isn't the best thing for a relationship, but yeah, thinking I'm going to be all open and vulnerable with her so she can go on Tinder an hour later is nuts.
Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
Skip the part of the plan where you layout 2 options to her and proceed with option 2. If she was open to option 1 you'd know it.

No reason to stop detaching.

She is not your woman, so continue to act like it.
Both you and LH had the same reaction to not share option 1, and I like that. I also do feel slightly empowered by the fact I am getting my sh!t together finally and feeling better about myself. Not because it's going to make her swoon and fall into my arms, but there at least some times where I feel like I've taken some control back in my life (got a long way to go though) and when the gut punches or hurt happen - they move on quicker and hurt a little less each time.

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Originally Posted by SaltyDog
Stopping communication beyond necessary family needs? Maybe I'm confusing it with going dark.

Oh boy, you don't even know the fundamentals.

"Success depends upon previous preparation, and without such preparation there is sure to be failure." ~ Confucius

Originally Posted by SaltyDog
Probably was in some ways, but the books were 100% worth it.

I am sure they are but I would start with DB basics. Also, she can see right through you.

Originally Posted by SaltyDog
That's a good idea. Hadn't thought of that. Thank you!

The only thing that has an effect on a WW are strong actions.


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Originally Posted by SaltyDog
Been a few days so thought I'd share an update. Things have been OK of late, mostly because I have stopped most of my detaching in order to make Xmas as good as possible given the circumstances. There have been a few occasions where she has brought up my being distant, ignoring her, etc. and I've mostly shrugged it off. She also found a couple of books in our Amazon account I bought about separation and recovery from betrayal. I wasn't trying to hide them or be sneaky so I told her I was working on me. She sent a snarky reply about how that doesn't seem to involve being vulnerable (she's big on Brene Brown) or open with her since I've been so distant. I calmly replied that I can't be vulnerable without trust and I can't trust her if she's on dating sites. She replied "OK" and dropped it. I didn't push it and am not going to until after Xmas where I plan to lay out 2 options - 1. We decide to work on us, I will be open and vulnerable, and she will stop all dating. 2. She won't stop all dating and we will go from this soft separation into a full one where I can move on and fully detach. My guess is it will be option 2.

Since she's been back though she has told me repeatedly how good I look and how I've lost weight and added muscle. She's liking that, lol. I've also continued to GAL, going to jiu jitsu and getting my butt kicked whenever I can, reading reading reading, and booked a whale watching trip on a zodiac and a deep sea fishing trip for when I'm down at the coast.


Why is it her choice? Salty, you have more control over this than you think you do. The problem is that you aren't detached and you are thinking like a a weak, overly attached beta male. "Please get off the dating sites and work on us! PLEASE!"

You do not get to choose if she is on dating sites. You do get to choose whether or not you are a soft separation or a full one. Likely you like this soft one because you are too afraid to move to full separation. So what you have done so far is taught her that it is okay for her to be on dating sites and STILL demand you be vulnerable. -puke-

So rather than give her a choice, the right move here is to move on to full separation. You do not discuss this (remember, action not words). You simply decide what full separation looks like and move to that. ACTION.

Stop engaging with her on things like the above conversation. Most LBSs say too much and that is exactly what you are doing. The barb about vulnerability should have been ignored.


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Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by SaltyDog
Stopping communication beyond necessary family needs? Maybe I'm confusing it with going dark.

Oh boy, you don't even know the fundamentals.

"Success depends upon previous preparation, and without such preparation there is sure to be failure." ~ Confucius .
Yeah, I had been using detaching to describe going dark. Found this post that helped. I'm still definitely detaching in regards to "us" and trying to be aware of getting sucked back in.
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2537289

Originally Posted by LH19
I am sure they are but I would start with DB basics. Also, she can see right through you.

Most likely, but I am caring less and less about that. Looking back I know I wasn't being honest about some of my intentions and that I was being manipulative rather than genuine. I'm nowhere near where I need to be, and the urge to throw out snarky and hurtful comments is SO STRONG, but I'm slowly moving in the right direction. I realize now that the urge to throw out those comments is evidence I haven't detached. If I had, I wouldn't care so strongly about wanting to do it.

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First I wanted to say that I've found the best posts on here are the ones that trigger my defensiveness. Thank you for nudging me out of my comfort zone.
Originally Posted by Steve85
Why is it her choice? Salty, you have more control over this than you think you do. The problem is that you aren't detached and you are thinking like a a weak, overly attached beta male. "Please get off the dating sites and work on us! PLEASE!"

You do not get to choose if she is on dating sites. You do get to choose whether or not you are a soft separation or a full one. Likely you like this soft one because you are too afraid to move to full separation. So what you have done so far is taught her that it is okay for her to be on dating sites and STILL demand you be vulnerable. -puke-

So rather than give her a choice, the right move here is to move on to full separation. You do not discuss this (remember, action not words). You simply decide what full separation looks like and move to that. ACTION.

I agree with your overall sentiment and it makes me want to puke when I think of the situation we are currently in. I agree with you and the others that it shouldn't be presented as a choice for her and instead should instead be me telling her what I am going to do. The reason I want to discuss it vs. just doing it is back when we first talked about all this and laid out what it was going to look like we agreed to things like still having family dinners on Sundays, still doing things as a family (Xmas, New Years, etc.) and now that agreement needs to be changed/dissolved and understood that things will be different moving forward.

Last edited by SaltyDog; 12/23/20 05:02 PM.
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