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Recap: Very briefly, H had a two year long distance affair, came (mostly) clean about a year ago after a lot of trickle truth but very ambivalent, she might be the love of his life, blah blah blah. We're now three months into reconciliation attempt #3 (maybe 2.5, since I don't know if we should really count the trip we took in August when he was NC with AP as a reconciliation attempt-- more like a break from hostilities). First time in Feb he said they were NC but it was more like 99% not 100% NC, she got back in touch in late May, blew up again, waffling for a couple months. We went on a family trip in August supposedly to try to begin to reconcile and he was NC with AP, but within a week of returning he was back in touch with her and wanted to S/D. I said, OK. We worked out all the basic details on finances and custody, he found an apartment, and we were working on what to tell the children (D8 and D10, who have zero idea anything is wrong). Then, H said he got to the very precipice of D, needing to pull the trigger on the apartment, and realized he can't do it, he doesn't want to D. He came clean on a number of final lies, including pulling out a box of memorabilia he had from the A and throwing everything in the garbage in front of me. That was mid-September. Wow. Feels like a long time ago.

Doing these recaps and re-reading my previous recaps is kind of an interesting exercise. I actually feel I've come a pretty long way in the last month, reading my last recap. Here's a quick inventory of where I am:

-- I believe and trust he's been NC with AP. We have 100% transparency, device passwords, all the rest. I realized yesterday looking at him on his phone that it no longer occurs to me to wonder if he is talking to her. A couple of months ago, I was still checking up on him regularly on WhatsApp to see when he was last active. I haven't done that in weeks.

-- Even though I clearly still have a lot of anger and pain to process, it feels much reduced from where I was a month ago, when it was truly overwhelming and actually frightening to me to contemplate. I was scared it would overwhelm me like a raging forest fire. Now I know I can let it come and let it out (love that punching bag) and it will pass. I also feel like I've developed healthier ways of dealing with it that I had before. So, progress here, even though I know I still have a ways to go.

-- IC has been going well, I think for both of us. He said to me the other day that he hasn't talked to IC about how he feels about AP for a month at least and he's been focused on questions of his identity (why he did what he did) and our R. I've also moved past spending every moment of my weekly IC call on my feelings around H and the A, and the last couple of calls have been focusing on some work-related stuff as well. So, that feels like progress-- IC said it seemed as though the "in crisis" mode was ending. We're in a bit of a hiatus from IC because of Christmas and an insurance snag. We have talked about MC. I think I'm ready for it. He suggested it again the other day. Previously, I did not want to go until I felt H was over AP as I have a boundary around hearing how he feels/felt about her. I'm waiting to see if H does any legwork on this on his own.

-- I feel a lot less anxiety about him rekindling the A. I'm really not worried about it. Whether that is because I feel that it is over in a way I hadn't before, or because if he does it again I have a plan, I'll execute, and I won't look back-- and there are definitely some attractions to life without worrying about how to reconcile and piece with a H who cheated-- I'm not sure. But that anxiety has abated.

-- The way H talks about the A has changed, a lot. He takes responsibility for what he did without trying to justify it immediately with the SSM (though if we talk about it long enough, we always get there eventually). He has apologized sincerely and repeatedly for hurting me, for lying, for the betrayal. I'm sitting with this because for whatever reason it doesn't feel like enough, to me. I have this fantasy of him saying it was all a horrible mistake, he only thought he was in love with her but it was just a manifestation of his own pain around the SSM, or whatever. I guess this is probably on me to figure out why what I'm hearing isn't good enough, at least isn't for me where I am right now. He said the other day that he didn't think he was "in love" with her anymore and that he was getting over her, but he is refraining from saying he's 100% over her, doesn't give a flying F about her, or whatever else I'd love to hear. Even so, I will say that this has changed a lot from three months ago. Progress, I guess, though feels sad and gross to me to have to even be measuring how attached your spouse is to another woman.

-- I have wanted to have a post-nup signed that will enshrine the agreements we made back in September for what would happen if we Ded, around finances, the house, and the kids. I would like to still have this signed for a couple of reasons-- one because I have a fear that some of the generosity was motivated by guilt and the A, and two because I want everything to be ready to go if he gets back in touch with her (or anything else happens that triggers me to walk). It feels to me somewhat of an insurance policy for deciding to try this last time to work it out rather than walk ("third time's a charm!" instead of "three strikes, you're out!") He agreed to this early on, though when it has come up since he's been reluctant. We talked about it a couple days ago and he said he still feels like it is going backwards from his perspective, but if it will make me feel better he is willing to do it.

Last Christmas, I was pretty positive that this would be the last holiday as a family. The big final BD-- the night where we were talking about him moving into the basement for three months and what that would look like, and I said something along the lines of "if you F her we are done for good" and he said "May I've been Fing her for two years"-- previously he'd only admitted to an EA that was half the length of time-- was December 30. So there are things that feel really odd and sad in prepping for Christmas and all the rest with the backdrop of what last year was like.

I've been working very hard on focusing on myself, letting go of any illusion of control over things which are not in my lane. Thinking a lot less about what is or is not going on in H's head and redirecting that energy into myself and my kids. I feel this has mostly been a positive exercise for me, though letting go is something I have to keep doing over and over-- it isn't a one-and-done for me. And, I think I also need to watch myself here, to be sure I am not letting my behavior slide from the tranquil focused-on-me detachment it is in my head into a kind of mean, IDGAF-about-you space.

Last night, we took the kids to see Christmas lights as a surprise and got ice cream. We all had a ball. It occurred to me at some point that after our last conversation, I see him for the very first time as a partner in this whole process of R. It was surprising to me, as that was one of the things I wanted more than anything in the beginning of all this mess but I never ever felt I had. It was more that we were two lonely individuals grasping our way in maybe the same direction, maybe not. I'm not sure what specifically triggered this shift in my perspective, or how valid it is. But it feels different. We will see.

Gerda, LH, Blu, OG-- I'll respond to your posts separately.

xx M


Me (46) H (42)
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Oh May, this warms my heart.

Originally Posted by may22
Last night, we took the kids to see Christmas lights as a surprise and got ice cream. We all had a ball. It occurred to me at some point that after our last conversation, I see him for the very first time as a partner in this whole process of R. It was surprising to me, as that was one of the things I wanted more than anything in the beginning of all this mess but I never ever felt I had. It was more that we were two lonely individuals grasping our way in maybe the same direction, maybe not. I'm not sure what specifically triggered this shift in my perspective, or how valid it is. But it feels different. We will see.


Honestly in those months after the OW breakup and before H asked to come back into the MBR and told me he loved me that's what it felt. Like two people trying to get a foothold as roommates and co-parents and maybe we were going the same direction, maybe we weren't. And honestly I felt things take a turn after our anniversary. I think I had spent so much time convincing myself that he was going to walk no matter what that I had ignored what was happening until July. But looking back I knew. Things just felt different. He became more reluctant to leave the bed after our weird no strings whoopie. Even the whoopie was different, but how he was around the family just felt all around different. It felt like he was happy with us. That he enjoyed being dad and husband even if he was half in and half out, and that was the first time it really felt like that in a long time. Like he wasn't trying to mentally or physically escape from us. That he wanted to be in this family, and he wanted to be in it with me. And that I really did want to try to be that family again. Not the 3 plus 1 we had been living for a long time.

Thinking of you xoxoxo

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Thanks WF... it feels different. Good, different. I'm skeptical though. I want to sit with this for a few weeks and see if I still feel like this come January.

I told him from the very beginning that this was what I wanted, to feel like we were partners in this moving forward. I said to him yesterday, hey. I feel like we're on the same side on this for the first time, that we're partners. He gave me a strange look and said thanks for getting on board. He said he'd felt like we were partners in this this whole last time around. Not quite sure what to do with that, if it's true or if he's fooling himself. Sitting with this.

Originally Posted by LH19
So I have been thinking about your situation and am going to throw this out there. Is it possible the that you were is this fight to keep your family together and once you succeed you realized that part of the package isn’t really all that great after all?

Yes. of course.

I think Oceangirl talked about on her thread feeling like there was no good choice? Just $hitty and $hitttier? I have definitely felt that. I mean, what I really wanted, which is an intact family with an H who didn't cheat on me, is no longer on offer. No matter what happens, that will always be the truth.


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Hi May,

Originally Posted by May
I told him from the very beginning that this was what I wanted, to feel like we were partners in this moving forward. I said to him yesterday, hey. I feel like we're on the same side on this for the first time

I'm glad you have this going into the holidays! It is so rewarding to feel like partners.

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Originally Posted by may22
Thanks WF... it feels different. Good, different. I'm skeptical though. I want to sit with this for a few weeks and see if I still feel like this come January.

I told him from the very beginning that this was what I wanted, to feel like we were partners in this moving forward. I said to him yesterday, hey. I feel like we're on the same side on this for the first time, that we're partners. He gave me a strange look and said thanks for getting on board. He said he'd felt like we were partners in this this whole last time around. Not quite sure what to do with that, if it's true or if he's fooling himself. Sitting with this.

Originally Posted by LH19
So I have been thinking about your situation and am going to throw this out there. Is it possible the that you were is this fight to keep your family together and once you succeed you realized that part of the package isn’t really all that great after all?

Yes. of course.

I think Oceangirl talked about on her thread feeling like there was no good choice? Just $hitty and $hitttier? I have definitely felt that. I mean, what I really wanted, which is an intact family with an H who didn't cheat on me, is no longer on offer. No matter what happens, that will always be the truth.

I meant him more as a the person he is now and not what he did in the past.

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Originally Posted by may22
Last night, we took the kids to see Christmas lights as a surprise and got ice cream. We all had a ball.


I had to start here, because you inspired me! The kids asked if we could go look at Christmas lights last night. I was tired, we just got home from a week-long trip, it was getting close to bedtime. Despite my desire to stay home and do an early bedtime, I said yes. We packed up hot cocoa in to-go cups and went for a drive. It was cozy in the car, people have put so much effort into their light displays this year and the best part was that the kids and I had lots and lots of deep conversations about H, our current situation and how they feel and what they need. We came home and no one wanted to get out of the car. It felt like a cocoon of goodness, safety, love, understanding. But I wouldn't have gone if I hadn't of read this post just before we left! So thank you, May! xx

Originally Posted by may22
I told him from the very beginning that this was what I wanted, to feel like we were partners in this moving forward. I said to him yesterday, hey. I feel like we're on the same side on this for the first time, that we're partners. He gave me a strange look and said thanks for getting on board. He said he'd felt like we were partners in this this whole last time around. Not quite sure what to do with that, if it's true or if he's fooling himself. Sitting with this.


This interaction stood out to me as I am learning more about narratives and how we can only control our own narratives. It is always a little shocking when we discover someone (close to us) has such a different view of the same experience. It is not our role to try and change someone's narrative, but just to listen and try to understand it as best we can. And maybe in that quiet-listening we start to better understand past behaviors, actions and conversations a little better.

Does it matter if it's true or not? It's his narrative and his alone.

Your comment here compliments this idea:

Originally Posted by may22
I've been working very hard on focusing on myself, letting go of any illusion of control over things which are not in my lane. Thinking a lot less about what is or is not going on in H's head and redirecting that energy into myself and my kids. I feel this has mostly been a positive exercise for me, though letting go is something I have to keep doing over and over-- it isn't a one-and-done for me. And, I think I also need to watch myself here, to be sure I am not letting my behavior slide from the tranquil focused-on-me detachment it is in my head into a kind of mean, IDGAF-about-you space.


I really loved your update, you can see how far you have come from the beginning of your sitch to today. Hope you're having a great weekend!

xx

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Originally Posted by may22
I mean, what I really wanted, which is an intact family with an H who didn't cheat on me, is no longer on offer. No matter what happens, that will always be the truth.


Acceptance is hard isn't it May, really hard. There is a famous quote out there that helps me deal with acceptance, think it might have been Churchill, but I might be wrong.

"You never know what worse luck your bad luck has saved you from"

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Originally Posted by may22
I told him from the very beginning that this was what I wanted, to feel like we were partners in this moving forward. I said to him yesterday, hey. I feel like we're on the same side on this for the first time, that we're partners. He gave me a strange look and said thanks for getting on board. He said he'd felt like we were partners in this this whole last time around. Not quite sure what to do with that, if it's true or if he's fooling himself. Sitting with this.

May, I know this is so painful for you ... but my thought when I read this is, at least there's a chance. I never got one. So bravo to you for keeping this option open.

Originally Posted by may22
I mean, what I really wanted, which is an intact family with an H who didn't cheat on me, is no longer on offer. No matter what happens, that will always be the truth.

Sigh. In this regard we have similar wistful desires. All I wanted was to keep my family intact too, "til death do us part."

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Originally Posted by Gerda
I think you need to commit to one side of one fence for a time. And it seems like you want to keep the marriage.

So my advice would be to declare a moratorium on R talk and just do IC. Make an actual rule not to do that and just to have fun for a while.

Gerda, I follow along your story on the MLC board and find you such a light. And what you just posted on Sage's thread... wow. I was utterly blown away.

I've been chewing on what your posted to me for a few days and wanted to respond.

On this one-- you're right in that I'm choosing to try and stay married. I've had a difficult time this fall doing this, partially because when we tried in the spring, before AP got back in touch with H (she reached out to let him know she was moving on, this was his very very final chance (it wasn't), btw she slept with someone and felt guilty about it so had to tell him) I was able to approach reconciliation with an open heart and optimism and then felt such whiplash when it all fell back apart.

This time... I feel burned from the last time. Even though so many things are different now than they were in the spring, I still am having a hard time committing on my end. It is like I'm straddling two different paths, like two tracks in the dirt, and for a few months it was OK to have one foot in one tread and one foot in the other. But they're starting to deviate, and I am starting to feel like I can't keep walking both. I have to choose, and I'm choosing the M path, but so scared to let go of the other.

We have basically done what you're suggesting, without naming it. I'm wondering about suggesting that we do set aside time to talk, but not about the A or our R-- just to talk about other things, important things, like work and life and all the rest. (Thinking of Yail's advice to drop the labels and be curious about H as a human being, and also see if he has any curiosity about me beyond the labels, Blu.) I feel like I need SOME reassurance in some way that we aren't just going to sweep this under the rug and go back to what we were. I do not want that. But what he wants is to work on rebuilding our emotional connection and perhaps this can be done in some ways, now, while we each still work on our own issues.

Originally Posted by Gerda
When the thoughts of the AP come your way, remember that they are from the darkness. They are a very real wound but your H is not going to be able to heal that wound. I don't know how you heal that wound without God, but if you don't have a faith life, I think you just have to keep giving over that pain to time and the universe. Expecting that your H will be able to say or do the right thing to heal your wound is a pipe dream. You can only hope that you build a new history with him.

I know this, intellectually. I think I even know it in my heart. I want so badly to evict her from my head. It is getting better, a lot better, but she still creeps in, sometimes, and I want to look at him and somehow dump all my pain onto him, because he did this, and how could he, to me, etc etc. I have been able to control that impulse now too, but it still does come. Telling myself to give it over to time and the universe-- that is difficult for me, because I am a checklist person and I want to DO something to fix this.

I think this part, giving over control or the illusion of control, to streeeeetttch out my timeline-- this is my biggest lesson in all of this. One I need to keep teaching myself. And, validating to myself in the moment that these are real wounds (as much as my H would wish they were not) that these feelings come from darkness, and to give them back-- that helps.

I'm not religious, but my H was. Up until the A he went to mass every single weekend as he had his entire life. He's framed his discomfort with the Church around issues like marriage equality, but I am certain that the fact that he carries a mortal sin has something to do with his discomfort. I'm not sure what he will do about this. He doesn't have a strong connection to the priest at our church and told me if he does go to confession at some point, it won't be with him. And his father is a deacon and parents are vvv religious (his father has decided that H should take this opportunity to convert me) and as my H is also having a lot of difficulties in his relationship with his father right now, I think the whole issue of religion has gotten tied up in that relationship for him as well. Anyway, it does make me feel a bit sorry for him, that his faith is not something he's able to lean on right now.

Originally Posted by Gerda
If you don't trust him, you can't think he can fix that. He can destroy your trust further but only you can decide to trust again. In faith world we say that we don't have to trust the straying spouse because we trust God. In a secular sense I would say that this means making peace with NOT trusting him and knowing that you will be okay no matter what he does, and deciding if you want to hang out with this guy and go on dates and enjoy the kids together and then COMMIT to that and keep your doubts and fears and the rest between you and your journal, your IC and a daily hike into the hills overlooking the sea where you literally talk out loud the entire time and give all that pain away.

I do think that keeping my own healing in my lane and focusing on me is really the only way to go, right now. I do feel a sense of shared partnership with him that is new, but I'm not sure quite yet if I want to trust it. I feel much less worried about him getting back with AP, but not sure if that is because I truly sense it is unlikely now for a variety of reasons or if I also know I'll be just fine if it happens. (But part of me is worried about NOT being just fine if it happens again if I continue down this path. Is this the part where I just need to let go, to trust in God and the universe that I will be okay?)

Originally Posted by Gerda
I used to imagine murdering the AP. I hated her so much. I didn't get rid of that feeling. I just kept asking God to heal it. I think he did, a little, but they also I think broke up, and my H became so monstrous that I can't ever R with him again so I almost feel sorry for any woman who would get sucked into his vortex. But I do pray for him to be healed, and I wonder if you can just keep giving that responsibility for fixing your H and for healing your very real, very deep, very painful wound to the universe. It's too big for you, for any of us. I don't know if you saw this in my thread but a priest once told me that the pain I felt should not scare me, the way that when you have a broken arm and it throbs, you don't think it is breaking again. You know it's already broken, and the pain is coming from that already broken place. This helps me a lot to deal with my pain and not expect that any human being can fix it for me. It just has to heal.

This helps, a lot.

Thank you, Gerda. Your words have given me a lot of strength.


Me (46) H (42)
M:14 T:18, D9 & D11
4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs
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Sage!! I'm so glad you went out to look at Christmas lights with your kids and it makes me so happy to think that I maybe had a little tiny hand in that joy.

One of the things I did early on in my sitch and I've held onto-- even sometimes need to remind myself to do it, too-- is to be more spontaneous. Say yes. I found I was so used to saying no, especially to the kids, that it was just habitual, almost. No, we have to get home and do homework. No, tonight's a school night. No, mommy had a long day at work and is tired. I started saying YES. If I couldn't think of a real reason to say no, I just said YES. In fact, have I ever told you about the day of yes? H went on a business trip in January and the girls and I did a staycation at a super fancy hotel (we'd won two nights in a silent auction). The hotel room had two bedrooms and a giant beautiful bathtub and all you could see out the windows was ocean. I told them we could have one full day of yes, when I would say yes to anything they asked. They didn't ask for anything unreasonable so it was easy-- but we lounged around in bathrobes and they took bubble baths and we watched movies and ate sugar cereal and I went in the pool every time they asked. Oh, it was so fun. (Pretty much it got down to what they wanted was my undivided attention and as much screen time as possible.)

Anyway, I just was glad to hear that you went and had fun. I feel like one of the things I lost over the past decade whether because of motherhood or work or whatever was my sense of spontaneity. Everything had to be planned or it didn't fit... and I wasn't always like that. (I mean I was sort of like that, but not to the extreme place it went.) So recapturing that ability to throw my plans out the door and delight in the moments is a gift.

In terms of my H's narrative... I hear you. I just am not totally sure he means it in the same way that I do. I think I'll just let it be, though, as you suggest. What he means by it, how it compares to how I think about it-- nothing to be done about it anyway, though. I think I'm just going to note it, as well as my own feelings on the subject, and revisit in January to see what it feels like then.

I have some thoughts to post on your thread but it is getting late! Maybe tomorrow! xx M


Me (46) H (42)
M:14 T:18, D9 & D11
4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs
9/20 - present: R and piecing
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