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Old Thread - Courage-2
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2909490&page=1

Not a lot going on but it's new thread time.

Originally Posted by kml
I applaud your desire to help her S18 learn a few life skills. I’d say a good short list would be:
How to do his laundry (and perhaps how to fold them and organize a dresser drawer. )
How to cook a week’s worth of cheap healthy meals. (Recipes included)
How to keep a budget (I was gonna say “and balance a checkbook” lol - shows how old I am!!!!)
How to do basic cleaning like scrub a toilet, clean a stove, mop a floor - and a recommended cleaning schedule
Given his ADHD I'm not sure on the right approaches on this and TBH can't make much investment in helping this boy. We did actually talk about laundry yesterday and I gave him the very very basics. Wash in cold - everything together is fine for a bachelor who only has clothes of more or less the same colour and fabric. Dry sweaters on the drying rack, everything else in the dryer. Like with most things that I've worked with him on, I presented it as "no big" which he tends to go along with. He said that he may give it a try today but that he has so many clothes now (he got a lot of his grandfather's clothes) that he's not short. I emphasized to him that "my" practice is to have a structured schedule where I do laundry every week but suspect that that's a direction that he may never take.

As far as the other things go, he has sisters and a mother to help him. Theoretically a father as well but his Dad's life skills as far as I can tell leave a lot to be desired as well not to mention the fact that he and his Dad spend zero time together and do not have a healthy relationship.

I had a talk to him when I drove him in to work a short while ago and while he has no specific plans on where he'll be living, he did agree that the two options I presented of living with his oldest sister or at his grandpa's house for at least a short time after New Year's were fairly reasonable. One of the roadblocks for him getting on this assistance program is that of course his birth certificate and health card are in places unknown. I'm not at all surprised. He and his mother will figure that out. She is capable of being quite competent. His main concern is about his job at the grocery store. I asked if he's told his boss about his current uncertainty and got a vague answer - so probably no. I did suggest that he could ask for a leave of absence if he ended up moving out of the area at least temporarily. That's about all I can do. I can be slightly accommodating, but not for any amount of time.
Originally Posted by ginger1
But I don’t care about her. Stop. Rescuing. Stop rationalizing ways you try to take responsibility for her. Or try to nice her. You aren’t her dad. Your “nice guy” is really out of control. It’s going to leave you totally broke. Please work on this stuff in IC.
I think you're over-reacting here and reading in far far more than the reality. Paying for a couple of sessions of counseling is no big and I take no responsibility for her at all. And that's all I'm doing. I'm not going to counseling with her, nor trying to fix her.

Originally Posted by ginger1
We weren’t afraid you were going to stretch the actual relationship. Just the part of her using you. Using your home as a storage facility. And what is her plan for her S18? Is she going to take him until he gets this assistance and finds housing? Or is it now your job to ensure he gets proper housing beyond this breakup. I can’t even believe he wears dirty clothes because no one ( and yes, he should be washing his laundry) is cleaning them or taught him. When he was 16 and on his own , who the heck washed his clothes? Was the poor kid going to school with dirty clothes. This is child neglect.
I think that generally speaking all of the kids were neglected. What I had put down to exhaustion is perhaps apathy. I can't really do anything about that. They're not my kids.

Storage will be the biggest issue. Because of the very clear threat that I'll throw everything out that is still here at the start of May S should be very motivated to get it moved. And she should have enough of her legacy to be able to pay for a big storage unit to put it into. I'm not going to be in a situation like with the younger kid's Dad or her former partner where things are left for years and she is in and out stashing stuff.

My plan is to work with S in concert with her oldest daughter - who while a bubble-head is the one who has always looked after her mother and gotten stuff done - to get the stuff out of the house. I have no problem doing the packing if necessary and my fingers are itching to get to it but if they take ownership of that and have a plan where they come in to the house and empty a room at a time for example that is fine by me. Shortly after the New Year rings in I'm going to start that dialogue. They may push back suggesting that it's none of my business on how or when they get the stuff out, but yes - yes it is.

Originally Posted by Ginger1
I also don’t want to invalidate you finally seeing her true colors. That’s great. But the work on your end now is now to not rush into things, get to know a persons actions, not words, and not to rescue or even “raise” women like they are your teenage daughters. And recognize why you are driven to do this. It’ll be hard work, but worth it
What I think I need to work on in IC isn't so much my need to rescue but rather my poor boundaries that allow people to take advantage of me. A big part of what ended this for me was the fact that she just expected me to take care of everything and everyone and not have to lift a hand. From one point of view, the reason I needed to end this relationship was because of the fact that there was so much expectation of me taking care of things from a practical and financial point of view and that wasn't a role that I want. When it became blindingly obvious even to me that they would never "up their game" I had to make the choice to end it. And then find the testicular fortitude to "be the bad guy" and do it. On their own, they would have just continued along and I'm sure that if I hadn't been firm about it that her D19 and BF would be here as well and I'd be cleaning up after them as well.

I'm looking forward to my first IC session. I'm figuring that I'll tell her stories about my past and how the way that I've dealt or not dealt with things have caused me problems and hopefully she will provide me with insights and tools to work on those behaviours. She is the pro after-all and very likely will see facets of me that I can't see and that may not be visible here either.

---------------

Not a lot else going on. It seems that the flower shop is a-buzz about my new "single" status and the clerk who served me made a point of mentioning that FSL was in earlier and that I'd missed her. I need to make sure that that stays on a just friendly basis. She's a nice person and I like her but romance is definitely out not to mention that she may still be in a relationship.

When I was in the bank on Saturday I made an appointment for December 12th to close down my existing accounts and switch everything over to the new ones. I've set up my book-keeping software as well to start fresh in the new year. I've not seen any indication that S has looked even though I told her that the books would be visible to her until the middle of the month. It's cloud based and there's a footprint kept of each device logging in. She's also not spent any money out of those accounts in the past week. I've set myself a reminder to remind her about her loan payment the week before it comes out. Hopefully that will be a short term thing.

I've decided to do some re-wiring in the kitchen. If I end up using a hot-plate the single 15 amp circuit that is in there isn't up to the task. I have 2 open circuits on the old fuse panel I can use. I'll use the screw in fuses and take one of the two outlets in the kitchen and put the two new circuits on it. I have easy access to the box and where the wire would run. That is more or less what it's supposed to be anyway to have it to be to code but I never bothered because it was fairly rare that we'd pop the breaker which was more due to managing when power got used vs consumption. Wire is pretty pricy. I was surprised. Sometime in the next week or so I'll pick up about 100' which should be lots for this as well as the other project I want to do this winter of adding a wall sconce to the upstairs stair-well. Being as it will be in the middle of the wall I'll need to add some additional bracing to take the weight - the best plan so far is to glue backing pieces to the inside of the wall. I can run the wire from the ceiling light at the top of the stairs to the sconce as they will be on the same switch too. It should be good other than the terror I will have of working at a height above the stairs.

I had been thinking of doing the kitchen this weekend but the price of the wire put me off. Being as I'll be working in the panel I also need to power down the whole house. I'll need about 100' of wire all told allowing for wastage. Since I was the one who re-wired this house on my own years ago I have few worries about my abilities on this. Take my time, plan, pre-prepare, test and all will be good.

The indication from S is that she probably won't be taking her stove in the short term but I need to plan as if it will be leaving at any point and the rewiring is a good idea regardless. Her Dad's house has a decent stove I am sure and she said that any apartment she would move in to would probably come with a stove. Not my problem other than starting the shopping for a new stove that I will need at some point anyway. I've been watching as well for new tables which I will eventually need too. I can get a pretty good deal on a decent wood table in the second-hand market for not much money. My big office desk would do as a table if it needs too.

I'm really looking forward to re-imagining these parts of the house.

I've started work on my Christmas shopping. For my daughter and her husband I've pretty much settled on getting them a gift / welcome basket from local Seattle vendors and have a few museums and parks to check out to get them a membership. They would probably prefer the zoo but given current restrictions I'm not sure how much use they'd get out of that.

For my son I'm figuring on "comfort" things for his apartment. A nice crocheted throw blanket for his couch, some frame pictures of some of his ancestors. I may get some sort of cat tree for "the girls". I picked up a duck for our Christmas dinner when I was shopping.

I'm going to pull out my Christmas decorations today and start putting some up. S has probably 8 or 9 boxes of decorations plus a lot of outdoor stuff - mostly broken second / third hand stuff. I recall last Christmas how it was a couple of days before and I had to help get their tree up - the boxes were pulled out, rummaged through, a couple of things put out and that was it. The reason given was that their "real" Christmas was at her Dad's place. Again - where the press releases don't measure up to the reality.

I'm slowly reclaiming the house. A bit difficult for the next month as I told S that she has until the end of December to get her stuff packed and I don't want to cause too much of a kerfuffle by shifting things around. I've done some "tidying" though and have most of the MBR, office, laundry room, kitchen and living room back. There are still heaps (literally) of her stuff around even in those rooms. But they are more functional and usable. I have no reasonable expectation that she'll take the bulk of the stuff with her before the move-out deadline but then again, I could be wrong. I do have a history of that.

I have the very few of S's pictures etc that were hung down and packed away. Funny that that was one of the sources of conflict between us that when were were unpacking and I saw a nice picture that had been buried in her apartment for years and hung it up that she was highly upset and offended that I didn't consult with her first. She only hung up I think one picture and that was to replace a clock where the tick was bothering her. She has literally dozens of pictures etc, many of which still have the original price tags on them stacked up under the back stairs. They were never hung up in her apartment either.

I've noticed that my health is progressively getting better. I think that I even look better. The haunted tired look that I saw in the mirror is pretty much gone and I rarely get any sort of chest pain. Other aches and pains are also less. Early next week I'll get my first shingles shot with the followup shot in a couple of weeks after that I belive.

I have some meat in the slow cooker to make chili for dinner tonight and will make some garlic toast to go with it. I even have a bottle of wine for me.


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I don’t really see the need for you to wait for her to pack her things. Given past experience, when she moved in with things hastily thrown into bags, I can’t imagine you packing some boxes is going to interfere with her “method”. Just label them as best as you can and I’m sure it’ll be better organized than she would have done.

Last edited by job; 11/30/20 09:01 PM. Reason: corrected posting for kml
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Happy December 1st! I have some of my Christmas decorations up including the few lights I use in the front porch. Santa can't find my house if it's not decorated laugh

First decent snow of the year started yesterday and is supposed to go through today. My motivation to be able to use the garage is increased. I did at least remember to flip up my windshield wipers so they don't get frozen down. Busses are all canceled - presumably out of an abundance of caution since the weather isn't currently all that bad.

---------

Even though I've said that I'm going to do any of S's packing for her, I can't help but "tidy". I reclaimed a bit more of the house yesterday. I took the TV out of the office and packed up the random electronics and video games that were literally piled all over the entertainment unit in the living room. I haven't seen the top of it for a while and now see the dust crazy I also went in to S13's room and swept up the hamster litter, food and poop that was all over everywhere. S had slept in there the last time she was here so I moved her laundry hamper etc into there. Her - ahem - battery operated boyfriend will probably get put away somewhere more discrete.

Still no word from or about S. I actually had to read back to see when the last time she was here was. Surprisingly to me it was only mid last week - it feels like multiple weeks. Mind you she was in and out and we barely interacted. Given the weather I don't expect to see her today or tomorrow but then you never know.

I'm taking Friday off to consume a vacation day that I can't carry over and working from home Thursday due to the fact that there will be other people at the plant who aren't normally there doing jobs that are actually important so our paths may cross again. I would imagine that she will give me a heads-up before coming to the house. She did last time. I'm honestly not expecting her to do much actually useful packing. Her priorities are in my mind skewed but at this point aren't surprising.

Today's plan is to finish moving all of S's stuff out of the main MBR and start working on "tidying" the kitchen packing up those things that I know that I won't use or that are either in the way. I can't imagine that she would be doing any of her Christmas baking here. She thinks of herself as a very dedicated baker but the 4 different types of flour on the counter have been barely touched. One I know has suspicious black dots in it but perhaps it's supposed to? If I separate "her" stuff from "my" stuff then if she questions whose is whose then the questions are easier.

I am worried that S18 won't get his support program figured out before the end of the month but like many things that's not my issue. A few core documents such as his health card are just plain missing so he needs to get a new one. I had a browse through S's various papers and couldn't see it. I told him that if he needed a ride in to the government offices that I could oblige. I think it's still not hit him much that he'll be embarking on his new life - probably rather unreal. He certainly doesn't seem to miss his mother. I can usually tell his stress levels because of his hyperactivity which plays out on a chin-up bar I installed in the kitchen doorway and he's been fairly calm as such things go.

Well - back to my math. I need to figure out how to get 33 tonnes of product out of a tank that has 22 in it, leaving enough in so that the pumps will work properly.


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Feeling proud of myself. Over lunchtime I cleared off the counter and most of the drawers in the kitchen of stuff that doesn't belong to me.

Turns out that my counter is HUGE - room now for my griddle, kettle and other things that undoubtedly end with the letters "le". Tea-potle?

It was so hard working around those things but they were "needed" and when I complained I was reminded on how much bigger the counter was in her apartment (it wasn't).

I can feel echoes of the same nervousness that I felt when I was cleaning up the house after my ex left - "touching her stuff". Perhaps something to address with my therapist. S had a tendency to do what my ex did and be stern and do the "shouldn't you have talked to me first" speech. On some things that makes sense but she would do that when I would find a pile of boots and put them out in the mud-room.

If any of that stuff is needed (unlikely) the boxes are clearly labeled and easy to get to. But more importantly to me, the kitchen is now much more functional again. And I need to go shopping still for a paper-towel holder.


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I want you to notice how relatively little time and effort it has taken to get your house starting to be liveable again. Just in case you're ever tempted to think "maybe I didn't give her enough time to step up to the plate" - no, you DID. She isn't capable because she is a hoarder (and may have other issues too).

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Happy Wednesday!

I finally heard from S this morning. Her D26 is having some complications from her mis-carriage and they had to take her in to emergency last night so she said she won't be here until Saturday. I'm translating that to be "at the earliest - maybe".

I let her know that her S18 did his own laundry last night - he asked if I could walk him through it - it was no big deal and I think bumped up his confidence. As suspected it was all the same colour (black) and more or less the same fabric. The lint trap on the dryer was nice and clean when I checked it after.

I also let her know that S18 is still needing his health card to apply for his program.

And I told her that I've been "tidying" but that all the boxes are clearly labeled and easy to get to. I didn't bother telling her what but she won't be surprised that it's the kitchen.

Got an "ok-thanks" back.

So - part of me is relieved that she is now aware that I'm packing up her stuff. She should know that when I say "tidy" that it means a lot more than just dusting.

---

I've gotten the kitchen about 85% dealt with. Most of what is left isn't in my way. There are some bigger issues like the fact that the table and stove are S's but those are longer term issues. I've been doing some reading and I may well have a number of good options for a new stove. Certainly for a table. No sense getting anything though before I need to. Stove maybe if I stumble across an amazing deal.

I do need a bunch of "every-day" stuff which I'll get from the local dollar store. Trivets, a new rolling pin, measuring cups etc. A number of the spices probably went with S when she did her first purge of the kitchen so those need to be replaced. I'm going to keep my eye out for a good deal on metal mixing bowls. B introduced me to those and they are the best of things.

I'm glad in many ways that I got a chance to go through through the kitchen on my own for this first pass. I remember fairly clearly what I had and this means that the number of items up for dispute are much smaller. If I had doubt about "whose it was", I packed it. I'm not going to cause drama over a spatula - except perhaps my favourite one.

---

I received an email from the organizing committee for our regional science fairs where I'm one of the judges. We're doing an on-line virtual fair this year. It's going to take more effort for these kids to get their projects together as it will be more than a soda bottle with Mentos (almost had one of those explode on me when the kid was demonstrating it). It will be fun. I'll set aside those days as vacation as before. I have 5 days that I need to consume before the end of March and think I'll take a week off in February. Always lots to do even if I can't travel.

I put together my draft 2021 budget and it looks pretty good. Taking off all dependents and hangers-on makes quite a difference. Being a numbers nerd I have my finances showing in the budget going back to the 1990s. Interesting to see how things changed over the years.

I may tackle my re-wiring project on Friday while I'm off.

Originally Posted by kml
I want you to notice how relatively little time and effort it has taken to get your house starting to be liveable again. Just in case you're ever tempted to think "maybe I didn't give her enough time to step up to the plate" - no, you DID. She isn't capable because she is a hoarder (and may have other issues too).
Oh - I'm sure she's got a boat-load of issues well beyond what I can imagine. Then again - so do I.

I think that I'm over the idea of "I didn't give her enough time" quite a while ago. She was capable of making incremental improvements. Sometimes by leaps and bounds. But her daily habits made those improvements unsustainable. I do hope that she's on good behaviour while visiting her daughter. I did some reading and see that significant bleeding this far after a mis-carriage is unusual.

I do worry a bit that this may impact S getting a new place but TBH I full expect her to live rent-free with her daughter or at her Dad's house for the next while. Financially and for other reasons it makes a large amount of sense and S - while others may dispute it - is a pretty sensible person. But those are her choices to make and not mine. I'm just reassured that there are few reasons why she can't be living elsewhere.

Nice sunny day here. When I take S18 in to work I'll get my first shot of Shingles vaccine. That should allow me to be all up to date on that before the end of the month. Not sure what the impact would be on getting a COVID vaccine as well but I honestly don't expect to be able to get one of those before March.

I have a steak out thawing for my dinner tonight. One thing about having S18 here is that it motivates me to eat better to provide him with a good example. He regularly sees me making various dishes for myself out of fresh and simple ingredients and I think is beginning to look at that as "normal". It's very rare that he asks me to drive him through a take-out window.

Back to doing math! The tank has gone from 16 inches to 8 - how many more drums can I fill and what is my order pattern looking like before I have to get a new load with a 4 day lead time .... Wheeee!


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Andrew,

Sounds like you are coming right along on the "clearing of spaces" and starting to feel a bit better as you accomplish more and more. If you have a Goodwill near you, you may want to see if they have a store set up. I use to find some great things there, i.e., metal mixing bowls, etc. In some of the stores, they carry furniture as well and you may stumble across a nice table. Also, the month of January should be a good time to see about a stove, if you happen to need one

I'm sorry to read about S's daughter and hope that she's okay. As for S18, kudos to him for doing his own laundry. That's a start and he probably just needs someone to work with him and show him a couple of times what he needs to do.

BTW, how is kitty doing?.


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The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Metal mixing bowls are great. But one other option - CMM has a set of nesting mixing bowls that are plastic - but have lids, like Tupperware. They're a great option as you can also use them for food storage too if need be. Or maybe you can find metal ones that come with lids?

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As for the miscarriage - sometimes with a spontaneous miscarriage you might not shed all the tissue - in that case they need to do a D & C, basically a scraping out of the uterus. That should fix the problem, it's not a huge procedure. It's unfortunate because it's stressful when she's already grieving the loss of a desired pregnancy, but she should be ok. This is not uncommon.

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Originally Posted by job
BTW, how is kitty doing?.
He's snoozing in the sunshine wondering when next he's going to get fed. The living room is south-facing and we have the bright sunshine we'll often get after a heavy snow. I annoyed him just now by going down and checking his paws and they are a lot better. Still a small amount of litter stuck to the fur but the destructive behaviours he was showing have stopped and the litter box appears normal.
Originally Posted by kml
As for the miscarriage - sometimes with a spontaneous miscarriage you might not shed all the tissue - in that case they need to do a D & C, basically a scraping out of the uterus. That should fix the problem, it's not a huge procedure. It's unfortunate because it's stressful when she's already grieving the loss of a desired pregnancy, but she should be ok. This is not uncommon.
Yeah. She's a nice kid. She has a warm place in my heart because she and a friend once baked me a birthday cake. My ex paid them to do it - the last cake I got in fact (long story).
She's an amazingly hard worker and extremely capable but a bit of a bubble-head. She used to work at a place for a while, do a great job, get burnt out then just "vanish" and reappear in a different town with a different job and do it over again. As you may recall in many ways it was her that raised her siblings and her mother.
She used to be a semi-professional dancer and works as a server so is very physically fit and should get through this I would think with few problems. It will give S something else to think about and feel useful about.
Originally Posted by kml
Metal mixing bowls are great. But one other option - CMM has a set of nesting mixing bowls that are plastic - but have lids, like Tupperware. They're a great option as you can also use them for food storage too if need be. Or maybe you can find metal ones that come with lids?
Given that I rarely store anything for more than a couple of days before either using it up or freezing it lidded bowls probably aren't too useful to me. We used to have a set of these sort of bowl but the lids pretty much never got used even "back in the day". As an unsurprising aside, my stock of food storage containers has dwindled to next to nothing. I have no idea where they went but have learned that if I loan anything to S or her crew that I never see it again. I just re-ordered a particular rather rare book that I had loaned her - it was part of an writing contest and a couple of baking dishes that I had sent home with S with left-overs have completely vanished as well. Sigh.

I'm figuring that for the next 6-8 months that there will be a fair bit of restocking of this or that. What I learned when my ex left though was to wait and see if I actually "need" something before I get it. It's amazing how little I actually need.

Originally Posted by job
If you have a Goodwill near you, you may want to see if they have a store set up. I use to find some great things there, i.e., metal mixing bowls, etc. In some of the stores, they carry furniture as well and you may stumble across a nice table. Also, the month of January should be a good time to see about a stove, if you happen to need one
Even if for whatever reason S doesn't want her stove - highly unlikely - I'll still replace it. We have a good number of thrift and second hand shops around. One of S's "hobbies" was shopping in there and her closet plus her stuff she put in boys' plus piles on the floor are a testament to what sort of deals are out there. The big one around here is called Value Village and they are associated with a charity that goes around and picks up donations. I disposed of a "lot" of things that way back in the day including kitchen-ware.

------

I really want this to all just be over but know that there are no short-cuts. Hopefully S will spend minimal time here and come New Years Eve I will be able to take back the house in earnest. I have some plans on how I can store things that will probably just take up 3 or even maybe 2 rooms even if she doesn't take very much.

Regardless for now, I'll continue with my "tidy".


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