This journey is an incredible opportunity of us LBS. Full of blessings. A great fulfilling life, where that which truly matters is first and foremost.
Glad to see the kids are doing well. I’m sure bring a cell phone brings piece of mind for them (and you). S12 has some control over his situation with the ability to call you. That makes things much more manageable for a person, control vs no control, even if it is just a little bit - like a having a phone available.
Doing great girl.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
We had our week long Chinese New Year break here, and ExH for the first time since BD had the kids two nights straight. He booked a hotel for two nights, told me that they're going to see his parents the first day. I was curious what he had planned for the second day, but I didn't ask. They were staying at a fancy hotel downtown, maybe strolling around in the city? shopping for new clothes? Taking them to buy toys?
So when the kids came back, I asked them what they did. which was ... nothing. They played on their devices in the hotel room the WHOLE night. S10 said he was the only one who paid attention to time and he realized that it was almost 11pm so he told everyone to turn off their devices and they should go to bed. S12 said, "You know, dad is always konked out. We pretty much took care of ourselves, with video games." Apparently ExH ordered room service for dinner, and the kids ate on their own while he continued sleeping. Later when ExH woke up and realized that S8 didnt eat (like any kid who's preoccupied with video games) and got angry, and according to S10, "Dad grabbed S8 with his legs and yelled at him and he was crying". I asked S8 if he told dad that he was hurting, he said, "I was crying so much I couldn't say it, and it hurt so much that my cry sounded different". S10 then said, "I told dad that he was hurting S8 but he didn't listen to me"
Well. My heart broke in pieces. I told the boys that it was not their fault. I told S8 that he shouldn't have been treated that way. I told S10 that I was so proud of him for trying to help his little brother, and it was not his fault that it didn't help. I asked them if dad was drinking. they said yes. he had his bottle of whiskey. I think at this point they know that dad is drinking too much, and dad is not a responsible adult.
Speaking to my L about this tomorrow. I'm not sure what constitutes child abuse here in this country. But I do worry that it will get worse. S8 wasn't injured, but it sounded like it could be traumatic to me. I feel like under the normal schedule of having the kids over at his place for a few hours over the weekend is okay, even if he's passed out, the kids are old enough to hang out on their own. I am afraid of escalating this to no visits at all. I really need to think about it.
I am thinking about writing ExH an email. maybe he didn't even remember that this happened. Will he find his conscience? Is he going to threaten the kids next time he has them, to not "report" anything to me? How can someone who's been abused and who has always been SO vigilant about how other people treat our children, possibly become the abuser?
Don't engage ExH over this. There is literally no point. You will tie your own hands if you do. He will know that your kids are reporting back to you. You don't want him to know that an sooner than necessary. I'm so sorry for S8. That little should not have to deal with this mess, and as much as I know you want to nip this in the bud, regardless of country, you have to establish a pattern. Establishing a pattern involves you going against your mothering instincts and letting some not so wonderful things happen because you will have to be able to establish that this is who ExH is now. You are blessed to have such sweet boys who look out for each other. If you choose not to battle this out right now it's still better to not approach ExH. Because you will end up with kids who are told to keep their mouths shut or else. As to how he could become this person. This is the person the abused become when they are functioning on instinct vs their higher selves. People like us are wired for abuse, and when put in a position of power, under stress and not in our right minds that monster that's been sitting in the recesses of our minds will rear it's ugly head. The only consolation I can give you here is that person is not the H you knew. That is not who H really is. But it is who H is right now.
Outside of all that ugliness. My dear it's so good to hear how well things are going at the new job, and how well you're doing with everything else. Don't let the mean girl get to you at that place. People who don't outgrow that crap by adulthood have some serious issues. And lord knows if she pushes you she'll learn who she is messing with
I agree, don't tip your hand to your ex yet. Speak to your attorney and find out what recourse you have, what evidence you might need, what steps you can take, etc.
Also - I don't know if there are people in his life (NOT you) who might be able to do an intervention and get him into treatment for his alcoholism? Does he have family or friends who can see it? Because the best result for everybody would be for him to get treatment and get sober. The second best solution is for him to have supervised visitation.
I'm so sorry to hear this. I'm angry on your behalf too. It isn't right.
I don't have any good experience in this sort of thing, but trust WF and kml and the others here who had dealt with MLC and substance abuse crazy. I 100% agree that in as much as your long-term goal is ensuring your kids' safety and happiness, it makes sense to gather information and talk to your L before talking to your ex. I'd recommend thinking through every step and deciding if it is more likely to help or hurt your long-term goal. In/re the idea of emailing him-- knowing the irrational and unhealthy place he is right now, can you imagine any good coming of that conversation? Is there any chance in h3ll that he'll be able to listen? I'm afraid that the likely outcome is what WF says, and the kids will be told to shut it, and your ability to hear what is happening may be curtailed.
If I were in your shoes I'd be scared about the what ifs (I fall prey to this a lot though). I guess instead of going off against your H before you're fully prepared and have everything that you need to be documented documented, I'd think of how you might give the kids the tools they need to be safe in the possible situations. Just like you've given them phones-- have you talked explicitly about when to call you? What it is okay to say no to daddy about, like not getting into a car with him if he's been drinking? Does S12 know how to handle a fire extinguisher and call whatever your equivalent is of 911? Do they have find my iPhone or whatever equivalent on their phones so you know where they are? Make sure they have some granola bars or something in their bags and water bottles when they go over there so they'll always have something even if your ex totally spaces on feeding them? I know you shouldn't have to do this, and you don't want to scare them. But they're great boys, they'll get through this, and I was babysitting by the time I was 12. It is not too early to learn about some of this stuff (and maybe they have already). Maybe a consult with a child psychologist isn't a bad thing either, both to get documented third party evidence and to get some guidance on how best to support them as they deal with their dad now and into the future.
All of this with the big caveat that I am not an L or a child psychologist and this could be all wrong... and I don't know the laws in your country (like here is might not actually be a great idea to go to a psychologist before you had all your ducks in a row, since they're a mandatory reporter and you might find yourself moving more quickly than you'd like in that situation). All just ideas for you to take/leave/discuss with your L. But just wanted to know that I'm thinking of you, I'm hurting for you and those sweet boys, and that I believe in you.
xx M
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
Yes, there is no point in showing your hand to ex. Do speak with a lawyer. I do agree you need a pattern of behaviour. And more than that, a documented pattern of behaviour. Write this event down, the date, time, place, etc. Also get pictures of things like any marks on S8’s legs from clutching fingers and such.
I am very sorry the boys and you have to deal with this. Finding out what legal and enforceable recourse you have will be a good thing.
When is the next overnight visit?
I do hope ex allows someone into his corner and he gets the help he so very much needs. Unfortunately, that is not you. Look after your boys. And well done with explaining the situation to them.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Thank you all for your sweet advice. I am documenting everything, and it is all still so ridiculous to me. I spoke to my L, and as I suspected, there is no recourse unless we have clear evidence of alcoholism (which is pretty much impossible to get) or unless something realllly bad happens. I think I will have to dive deeper into this topic of alcoholism with the boys earlier than anticipated.
The good thing is that so far ExH hasn't asked for regular overnight visits. And he does not drive (gets around by cab). The sad thing is there is no one here to help. I've reached out to his best friends last year to no avail. I hesitant to talk to my in laws about this, it will probably do more harm than good (They don't have any pull over ExH historically).
May, thank you for those points and I will really need to think about how to best arm my boys to deal with this situation.
Well, I am a little scared. If this is the beginning of the downward spiral, I wonder how fast it will go. Actually, come to think of it, I would say he's been on this decline for the last five years. I can foresee the next five years to not be so great for him. Maybe I need to speed up the D process and take a less than ideal deal now so I won't have to possibly end up paying child support to him if he loses his job!!?
Gosh, It's crazy to think that in 5 years my eldest will be 18!!!! I sure hope these precious babies of mine will grow up to be responsible, caring, loving, righteous men.
Again, thank you guys for all your input. It's so great to have this community here.
Maybe I need to speed up the D process and take a less than ideal deal now so I won't have to possibly end up paying child support to him if he loses his job!!?
Hi Wooba,
Wow, I'm so sorry you're going through this. I can't imagine having to discuss alcoholism with my kids so young, and how hard it must be to hear your child was in pain and you're powerless to do anything. Re: locking in child support now, where I live, child support can be updated anytime circumstances change--e.g., when someone loses their job or gets a raise. It might be wise to double-check with your L if it works the same or differently near you.
I suspect Wooba meant to say spousal support. Yes, it’s a good reason to push the divorce, because you’re right - if he becomes unemployed and then you divorce him, he might possibly be able to get spousal support. If he keeps his job until the divorce is completed, worst cases scenario is just that he doesn’t pay his child support.
Ah, wooba, I'm so sorry H seems to be spiraling and his behavior is directly affecting your sons. I can't imagine how hard it would've been to hear that report. From what I've read of your boys, it does seem very clear that they will be looking out for each other as you are looking out for them too. Thank goodness they have each other, and that they have you to guide them through this and reassure them that it is not about them! I think they are on their way to being responsible, caring, loving, righteous men. They are already showing those qualities in the way they care for each other. ((wooba))
Re: locking in child support now, where I live, child support can be updated anytime circumstances change--e.g., when someone loses their job or gets a raise. It might be wise to double-check with your L if it works the same or differently near you.