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A Message from Michele
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Joined: May 2019
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Originally Posted by Wolfman
I am also the one who asked her to move in with me, not her. She was very hesitant about doing that. I convinced her. We were together for 9 months before she moved in. Back in May or June I was just so crazy about her. We talked about getting engaged by the end of the summer. So in her mind why protect herself if we are talking about getting engaged/married. I felt the same.


I guess this explains why she was so upset when you refused to get engaged after she got pregnant. Sigh frown

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At the end of the day, I think a person has to do what they believe is the right thing. Listening to others voice their viewpoints can be helpful in emotional stressful situations. If those viewpoints don't match your belief system, you have to decide what is the best decision for you and your children (including this baby).

Since you've told us the seriousness of your indecisiveness, I have understood you a little better. It must have a negative affect on not just you, but those involved with you. Some things in life, such as choosing a color of paint, doesn't call for a person to rely upon whatever it is that guides or directs his soul, consciousness, and heart. However, when it comes to life changing/altering decisions......a person needs wisdom, and especially, to know his own values and principles. Even then, it can be very difficult, b/c you are dealing with lives. It's hard to set emotions aside, maybe impossible in some cases, but IMHO, we have to make those type of decisions based on what we believe is right. Everyone won't agree with the same moral/ethical code you may have, but it is not about doing what someone else wants. It's about your integrity, honor, belief system, etc. Sometimes, our problem in making decisions is that we want to please someone else, and really don't want them to be upset at us.

I hope in the weeks to come, the two of you can just get along and keep the drama down. That might help you come to an easier decision. Have you tried getting through the days without mentioning marriage or counseling? Does she bring up the subject of marriage most days? I do think she feels pressure and that's partly why she's pressuring you to marry her. If she didn't want or plan to get pregnant, she's having a rude awakening. Both of you are, I would imagine. Maybe I'm going out on a limb here, but I think any woman who is pregnant has the need to feel safe, protected, and to know she and the baby will be taken care of. Some women don't get those assurances, but they still have that natural need, b/c she is entering her most vulnerable state (other than when she actually gives birth). Now, I didn't say all of that to make you feel more pressure to marry her. I'm just sharing what I believe are the natural needs or instinct, so to speak, that comes along with the pregnancy. It's kind of like an animal that starts nesting, or searching for a safe place for its offspring. I am still a bit suspicious of her not showing her true self until she gets pregnant, and now trying to manipulate/pressure you into marrying her. Even if that's the case, I still believe pregnant women have innate needs that drive some of her actions. I'm not trying to excuse away all of her behavior, but after reading your previous post where you told us more about the dating and moving in together, it kind of sounds as if you might have misled her......which wasn't at all how I perceived your other posts. It doesn't change your situation, but I don't see her in quite the same light in which you had been painting. I mean, you almost sound like two different people at times, but maybe that's just me. So, moving along......

Does her parents know she's expecting a baby? B/c I think you said something about that being a source of her pressure to get married before the baby is born. Whether or not it is true, or she's simply using it to manipulate you, IDK. Does her parents give emotional support to their daughter? Would they cut her out of their lives, if she wasn't married? That seems pretty drastic in today's world, but who knows? Sorry, I'm probably saying things completely unnecessary at this point.

You sure have a lot to consider, and I don't envy you a bit.

((hugs))

P.S. Has she started her new job?


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Just who I was looking for and thinking about how you doing Wolfie long time no see

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Originally Posted by may22
hi Sandi,

(Sorry Wolf to hijack)

Originally Posted by Sandi
Why would you have freaked if you were already living with the man? I mean, would it have been due to finances and the responsibility of being a single mom? If I'm understanding you correctly, you had no qualms about living together outside of marriage. I guess it's difficult for me to understand how it would be a necessity to live together before even becoming engaged, but pregnancy would bring a different moral code into the relationship. And if it's not based on morals, then what is it?

I guess it is a moral thing for me. Again, I'm not religious, but I had never seen divorce as an option and have only slowly come around to it from constant pressure on this board, which is weird as a "divorce busting" board but that is neither here nor there. I feel strongly about giving children, if you choose to have them, the best possible environment and for me, that would mean parents who are married to each other, to the extent that is under your control. I know plenty of people who have kids together and aren't married. That is their choice and I don't judge. It just isn't what I had always imagined for my own life.


May I have felt that way too. Divorce is not an option. I wasnít always happy with my ex but I felt like I had to stick it out for the children. I feel that kids should have both parents. I think everyone has an idea what family is. I believe itís being married with the kids. Donít get me wrong, if there is drug abuse, physical abuse those sort of things are a no go for me or would be good for the children. Just my opinion, we are too quick to ďreplaceĒ people who arenít working out like they are supposed to. We have become too desensitized to the idea of divorce. I honestly thought before my divorce it was ďno big dealĒ because I saw and heard about it all the time. Keep in mind for me too, no one in my family ever got divorced or did I have any friends growing up that came from divorced familyís. I am only going by what I saw and heard in the media. I just donít think itís fair for the children, to bounce back and forth between homes, to have no stability. So for me I truly want it to work for me and my GF, I donít want to have more kids without stability. So May I am kinda on your boat with that. Oh and you are not hijacking at all. I love all the commentary.

I am going to address each one of your posts separately.


M:42 XW:41
T:19 M: 15
D:13 S:10
BD: 8/10/18
Moved out: 8/18
Moved in: 9/18/18
Moved out: 4/22/19
D papers signed 11/4/19
D final 3/18/20
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Originally Posted by sandi2
Thanks for responding, May. I try to learn from others on the board, and that's why I'm trying to understand your thinking.

I have been thinking about this just recently, how some people may feel a bit pressured. I don't think it's intended, but in trying to help someone through their pain, it may be perceived as pressuring. I do believe we all speak from a place of experience, directly or indirectly. It does bother me, however, to know you have felt pressured by the board. Some of us speak rather bluntly, and it may sound as if we are being harsh, or maybe superimposing our views on someone else. However, what does it accomplish if the other person can't freely make their decisions based on the information they are given? It's their life, and we are suppose to be a support group. Sometimes, we might need to be reminded, lest we get carried away with trying to get them to see our own views.
((hugs)


I donít mind the blunt speaking. It just bothers me when people insult others. We are all different and live our lives differently. I just like to get other peopleís advice because sometimes when you are in the thick of things you donít see everything. I donít want anyone to sugar coat anything for me. I want the truth and I want it straight forward. I completely understand why some of you get frustrated with me. I am just trying to put everything together from what I am going through, to things I read, to the advice from this board. Again, I apologize for coming on here and not giving the whole story. Sometimes on here I feel like that peopleís point of view is everything and we must listen. I was on other marriage saving websites at the beginning and some of their views were the complete opposite of what is told here. Which can make things confusing. So, I try to hear everyone out and then make my decision. Sorry if I made it sound like tell me what to do, and then I didnít do it. That is frustrating. I should have phrased it differently.
Gotta run. Oh and Sandi my GF has another job and started Monday.


M:42 XW:41
T:19 M: 15
D:13 S:10
BD: 8/10/18
Moved out: 8/18
Moved in: 9/18/18
Moved out: 4/22/19
D papers signed 11/4/19
D final 3/18/20
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Originally Posted by Wolfman
Originally Posted by may22
hi Sandi,

(Sorry Wolf to hijack)

Originally Posted by Sandi
Why would you have freaked if you were already living with the man? I mean, would it have been due to finances and the responsibility of being a single mom? If I'm understanding you correctly, you had no qualms about living together outside of marriage. I guess it's difficult for me to understand how it would be a necessity to live together before even becoming engaged, but pregnancy would bring a different moral code into the relationship. And if it's not based on morals, then what is it?

I guess it is a moral thing for me. Again, I'm not religious, but I had never seen divorce as an option and have only slowly come around to it from constant pressure on this board, which is weird as a "divorce busting" board but that is neither here nor there. I feel strongly about giving children, if you choose to have them, the best possible environment and for me, that would mean parents who are married to each other, to the extent that is under your control. I know plenty of people who have kids together and aren't married. That is their choice and I don't judge. It just isn't what I had always imagined for my own life.


May I have felt that way too. Divorce is not an option. I wasnít always happy with my ex but I felt like I had to stick it out for the children. I feel that kids should have both parents. I think everyone has an idea what family is. I believe itís being married with the kids. Donít get me wrong, if there is drug abuse, physical abuse those sort of things are a no go for me or would be good for the children. Just my opinion, we are too quick to ďreplaceĒ people who arenít working out like they are supposed to. We have become too desensitized to the idea of divorce. I honestly thought before my divorce it was ďno big dealĒ because I saw and heard about it all the time. Keep in mind for me too, no one in my family ever got divorced or did I have any friends growing up that came from divorced familyís. I am only going by what I saw and heard in the media. I just donít think itís fair for the children, to bounce back and forth between homes, to have no stability. So for me I truly want it to work for me and my GF, I donít want to have more kids without stability. So May I am kinda on your boat with that. Oh and you are not hijacking at all. I love all the commentary.

I am going to address each one of your posts separately.


My only thing with this is that making bad decisions on top of bad decisions only complicates things. Read the story of David and Bathsheeba from the Bible. It is a cautionary tale.

Also you brought a baby into a world of instability by getting your GF pregnant. That was an unstable relationship, from what I can tell mostly based on sex, and you using sex to self-medicate at the loss of your W. So to say now you want to provide that child stability, that ship has sailed! My W's parents are divorce since she was a kid. Then remarried, with step-brothers and sisters involved. To have people come into your life every other weekend for your childhood is not stability. The idea that you could ever provide this child traditional stability like elude to in your quoted post is a pipe-dream.

And I can almost guarantee that this relationship will be fraught with severe ups and downs for however long it lasts, and has little hope of being long-term. The odds, and history, are severely stacked against you.

Good luck Scott, you've got difficult days ahead.


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Originally Posted by harvey
Originally Posted by may22
Just to note... many many flight attendants are furloughed or out of a job right now. I have a friend who is a flight attendant with a ton of seniority-- been flying for 20 plus years. She's furloughed and depressed. Her husband is still employed so they aren't going hungry, but if she was completely dependent on her own earnings-- she'd be in trouble. And this is a person who a year ago was jetting off to international destinations and bringing friends, getting facials in Korea and shopping in Hong Kong because... well, why not? That was her job and her lifestyle, which has all now come crashing down. And, many of the jobs that flight attendant skills transfer to easily (customer facing retail, hotels, restaurants, etc.) are also all unavailable right now with tons of people out of work in those industries as well.


As somebody who works for a major airline, I can attest to this. Over 50% of our employees took LOAs for 1 month-1 year. Then, nearly 40% of our employees took the out or early retirement. The ones of us left are working 30 hours/week until things get back to normal. The airlines are taking a massive hit, and a flight attendant just might be destitute at the moment.

I'm not sure what advice to give Wolfman. I'll just wish him the best. What he and his GF are going through is not easy.


Thank you Harvey. She was recasted when she could not go back to work. She was living the life flying all over the world and getting paid to do it. She was also nice enough to take me with her a few times and bonus she pulled me up to first class on those flights. I never flew first class before, and man, it was amazing, she definitely spoiled me.


M:42 XW:41
T:19 M: 15
D:13 S:10
BD: 8/10/18
Moved out: 8/18
Moved in: 9/18/18
Moved out: 4/22/19
D papers signed 11/4/19
D final 3/18/20
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 609
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Originally Posted by MLCxH
There appears to be a lot of analysis of the GF's motives but should that really matter in what the best decision for Wolfman is?

In my opinion, there are two things that matter. The first is what does Wolfman want? Does he want to live together with his GF or not? I feel that is a personal decision to be made by him alone based on his preferences and his moral convictions. . The second is are there legal consequences to his decision especially long term ones?


Not going to lie. After my divorce now that is something I am worried about. I never thought about that with my first marriage. But now, that will be something on my mind, always. No matter who I marry. The financial hit really stunk. So going forward that is something I will always think about. Thatís aspect of divorce scarred me. Something I really need to think about.


M:42 XW:41
T:19 M: 15
D:13 S:10
BD: 8/10/18
Moved out: 8/18
Moved in: 9/18/18
Moved out: 4/22/19
D papers signed 11/4/19
D final 3/18/20
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 609
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Originally Posted by IHCLACS
Just who I was looking for and thinking about how you doing Wolfie long time no see


Hey buddy how have you been? Havenít heard from you in a while. How is your situation?

Hope everyone had a great thanksgiving. I know if you are here it could have been a tough day, hope you all made it through.


M:42 XW:41
T:19 M: 15
D:13 S:10
BD: 8/10/18
Moved out: 8/18
Moved in: 9/18/18
Moved out: 4/22/19
D papers signed 11/4/19
D final 3/18/20
Joined: Jan 2019
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Need to get more up to speed on WM's current situation. But if I were you WM. I would demand a paternity test from her and watch for a reaction. Trust their actions not their words. Put up some boundaries and rules on the relationship until further notice. Your rules. No co habitation until further notice. You got some big red flags of a chameleon and a potential NARC there buddy. Sounds like you fell for the ol bait and switch again and she is already giving you ultimatums. Don't let her emotionally manipulate you. Use logic and reason.

Last edited by IHCLACS; 12/01/20 08:04 PM.
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