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Originally Posted by Steve_
I thought about something today regarding hope, maybe it will help you.

I don’t need hope, I have DBing, other research, and time on my side, one way or another I will win from this situation. I will get better and better as I get farther away from this sitch and either my WW will have to make genuine changes that I have the support here to sort through or I will eventually find someone better and be happier. So no matter what the outcome is, I win. And so do you.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2826516#Post2826516


Originally Posted by sandi2
This man is often referred to as a "man's man". The attributes that attract the female can be detected in his persona. It shows confidence, strength, independence, assertiveness, and authority when needed. Even other men sense that this guy is not someone who will bullied, made the butt of a joke, ridiculed, and other forms of disrespect. He doesn't just go along with whatever the crowd wants, and that's why he is often portrayed in movies as a rebel. He is not a "yes man" who jumps through hoops trying to get someone's approval. He knows his own mind and lives by a code of honor. He is a take-charge kind of guy when action is needed. He doesn't get pi$$y, whine, fuss, tattle, or sulk like a girl. He isn't pushed around......especially by some b'tchy female, and if that means he has to get a little rude to shut her up, then he's not afraid to do so. He knows how to use his voice and his body language, to put a horsey female in her place (which simply means he doesn't cow down and is not about to let her push him around, belittle him, or manipulate him.) In the bedroom, he is sexually dominant, and women find this very attractive.

I think all the above applies to how this type of man should interact with his W. (Just to clarify, he does not get violent or abusive to his W.) This type of man knows there is a time & place to show tenderness, sympathy, understanding, etc. He also knows when he needs to apply tough love in his MR, and with his children. Although he and his W are a team, there is never a doubt that he is the final authority. He is the leader, protector and provider of his family.

He will show his W respect and lovingness,...….as long as she is mindful to show respect to him. However, if she displays any form of disrespect, manipulation, b.s., entitlement, tantrums, or actions we often see reported on the forum......he immediately deals with her bad behavior! He doesn't let her get away with treating him badly, and demonstrating those type of behaviors. He is the head of the family, and it's up to him to keep order in the MR and his family.



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Originally Posted by ericmsant2
I wanted to share with you some of my thoughts over the past few weeks. Some of this may be a bit of a ramble; however, I believe that some of you may find it useful.

I have entitled this post….. The star is inside of you.

There is no magic bullet, magic pill, set of actions, set of words or specific post that can ensure that your marriage will be saved. Not one. The advice that you receive here will vary. Some will be very related to your specific sitch – some will not. I see a lot of people still focused on your spouse. Still focused on what they do, do not do, say, do not say, act, their actions. I understand this, I was there at one point too. What I feel is missing is the “work” that is needed to FIX YOU. We say often around here…”we didn’t break ‘em so we can’t fix ‘em”. So ask yourself – do you still believe that? Do you? Are you still worrying about every word you say, every step you take, every action you do? Do you still live a life walking on eggshells? Do you live in FEAR? Do you worry if you should leave the bedroom, take off the wedding band, make dinner, do the laundry, go to work? Does you every decision get run through a process where you think…….”what is my spouse gonna think or say”? Do you try and overcompensate for your crazy spouse? Do you do everything for the kids…to protect them? Have you totally devalued yourself? Have you tossed aside your own needs and wants? Do you walk around in guilt? Do you really think that…..that time, 10 years ago that your forgot the cranberry sause on Turkey day that it cause your spouse to wig out? If so, why?

I can go on and on about the stuff people have written, the post I have responded to and have read. Heck I was there too. IMO, the root of all of this is one word.

FEAR

When you come here…you are afraid, afraid of everything your spouse does, is doing, saying, etc. The answer to the issue though is NOT YOUR spouse – it really is YOU!

Stop for a second and ask yourself…..

Why am I afraid my spouse may leave?

Why am I afraid my spouse may divorce me?

Why are you afraid? Can you answer it honestly? Do you understand and know the root of YOUR fear? Yeah..yeah..yeah…I get it…”the kids”, “our family”, “our friends”……”the house”….”the finances”… I get it.

These ^^^ though are SURFACE answers. They do not get at the ROOT of the issue. Why are you so worry about the house? Do you think you will not be able to afford it? Do you think that you will not be able to maintain it? Do you love your neighbors? Do you just love that “woofy” your dog can walk around and all of your neighbor adore him? Stop for one second and ask yourself…… “what do these FEARS say about ME”. Can you see how you are devaluing yourself? Can you see how you may be assuming a deafist attitude? Can you see that in reality…..YOU WANT to CONTROL EVERYTHING.

CONTROL….. we like it. It is safe. It allows us to put everything in a little box. IMO, some levels of control KEEP US STUCK. They keep us from LOOKING INSIDE and facing OUR FEARS. So we cling to them. We figure out nice ways to hide behind them. Do you really think you can control everything? Do you really think that what you do, do not do, say, do not say….will CONTROL how your spouse acts? Now, I am not saying that your actions may not impact someone else. I am not saying that a love and compassion do not help heal, promote happiness, etc. No. What I am saying is that STANDING for your marriage does not mean that YOU ACCEPT that you are treated like dog poop. What I am saying is that YOU cannot spend every waking moment in FEAR of EVERYTHING YOU DO. At the end of the day, you cannot control your spouse. At the end of the day….NONE OF YOU, NO ONE ON THESE BOARDS, NO ONE….can make your spouse wake up, come home, become a better person. Some of you may say I know this. My response to you is….so what are YOU really doing for YOU.

IMO, doing the “work” is about facing YOUR FEARS. It is about, letting go of the notion that YOU can control everything. Doing the work…mean that you look inside. I will use my life, my journey as an example……

Some of you have read my journey, at least what was posted. I was an abused child. My mother was…well not the greatest. I was pretty messed up. At one point I become a drug addict. I was put away as a kid. I was homeless for a short period of time. I was broken. So…what does one do, HE CONTROLS. He controls how close he allows people to get. He manipulates his relationships, he keeps everyone at a distance. He carries around a ton of guilt. He lives in TOTAL FEAR and he USES CONTROL to manage that fear. He thinks….well if I am good H, or a good worker..that I can control the outcome of my job, my marriage. Now, I am not saying one should not be a good H, or a good employee. Nope. I am using this as an example of how sometime we control things. The control….keeps us from looking inside. Lemme give a few specific examples:

Specific to me….I tried to control everything. I’ve listed a few examples as reference for some of you.

I became super DAD. I did everything for my kids. My ex would leave at 5am and come home at 11pm. I did the laundry, cooked, cleaned, house work, a full time job, pick up and drop off the kids – pretty much a full time single parent. Although I do not regret it….i could have done things differently. Allow me to explain….. being as busy as I was with the kids, was in a small way, helpful in keeping me from looking inside. You see, I felt that I needed to protect them, I felt that I needed to control what they saw, what they heard, I wanted them to NOT have any pain from the divorce. I tried to CONTROL IT. ALL OF IT. Yes, some of you may say…it was for a good reason. My response to that is…was it? YOU really cannot control everything. The kids, will at some point FEEL this. They will feel the issue that are going on in the household. They will feel the stress of your spouse actions. YOU really cannot CONTROL it. You may think you can but all you are really doing is postponing it. Needless to say, I kept controling the sitch…take the kids here…make sure they did not see mom monster on me. The control prevent me from FACING MY FEARS. FEAR of what you may ask….

FEAR of….
Could someone like me really be a good parent, would the kids no longer love me, would the kids grow up to be F’ed up, fear of FEELING like maybe I was really a crappy dad, fear of what they would think of me? FEAR….that DEEP DEEP DOWN INSIDE…..I DID NOT BELIEVE IN ME! Yep…the deep issue that really needed to be deal with was ME. I did not believe in ME. I used everything else, the kids, my sitch, everything to HIDE from facing and learning about ME.

FEAR of….
Facing my role in the demise of the M. What did I do wrong? Why was all of this my fault or was it? Was I done? Why wasn’t I done? Why did ex wife have an OM? Was that my fault? To deal with some of these fears I controlled. I controlled how I felt. I did things, said things, did not do things….all for the sole purpose of getting my ex back. The bigger question was WHY? What was I afraid of? When I really started digging I did not like some of the answers that I found. I was fearful of: losing my house, change, change in my lifestyle, change in my income. Would I find someone? Could I find someone? Did I really love my w? What did love mean to me? Hell could someone like me even really love?

Finding the answers to these questions was painful. It required me to face every single one of these fears. It is no easy, fellow posters. Not easy at all. IMO, though….if you do not do it YOU will never really find your true self, your true happiness. When I started to dig, I realized – yes I did love my ex. Yes, I was capable of love, I also realized…..that I did not really KNOW how to LOVE MYSELF. That I based my own sense of SELF on what other thought, said, felt. That I had hid for a long, long time behind a viel of FEAR. When I finally learned how to love myself, learned how to ACCEPT EVERYTHING about myself….well then I was FREE. Free to choose for ME.

I have a seen a lot of poster post very similar questions ….

1) Should I leave the house? Should I leave the master bed room? My answer to these is this….WHY do YOU want to leave or stay? Are you staying because you are afraid? Afraid that you are not strong enough? YOU can! You are strong enough! You will survive this! Only though if you really look inside and UNDERSTAND why you feel the way you DO. It is only then, can you make choices that are NOT based in FEAR. It is only then that you can determine if you are done or not done.

2) Am I am done? I think I am done? I want to be done? MY answer – Define done. What does it really mean? Why does it even need a definition? Why put yourself in a box? Personally, I think it is our way of controling everything and as I have said….IMO, CONTROL is just a way for US to NOT have to FACE our FEARS. IMO, you can be done. You can change mind later. You actually do not even have to decide today, tomorrow….YOU can JUST LIVE. Live a happy life. Make a promise to YOURSELF that I CHOOSE happiness. Let go of the darn need to control everything. YOU CAN’t. Can you really control what your ex does? If you end up getting divorced – can you control what the judge says, his/her attny says – NO. YOU CANNOT. ACCEPT THIS! Instead of using the energy trying to figure out if you are done..use it to figure YOU out. Use it to understand yourself and accept your own fears. Use the energy to sit down and really figure out what you want and WHY? The star that you look for….the answer to all of YOUR questions is really inside of YOU.

3) Do I confront H or W about OM/OW? What do YOU really want to do? Better yet – why? What are you afraid of? Are you afraid they may leave? Are you afraid you will piss them off? Are you afraid they may file? Do you really think you can control it? FACE your FEAR! Why are you afriad? What is the root of the fear? Is it that you never really valued yourself? Is it that you are afriad if they leave how you will put food on the table? If so, is that who YOU really want to be? Dbing DOES NOT say you should be treated like crap. It is about health boundaries. Are you afriad to tell your spouse to stop texing OM/OW in front of you? Why? YOU matter! You are worthy of LOVE and RESPECT too. YOUR feeling do matter. Now I am not saying that you should confront today, tomorrow…what I am saying is UNDERSTAND why you are making the choice you are making. Cause if it is the result of FEAR – you have not address the real issue. FACE your fears.

I can go on and one with all sort of examples: The key point that I want to make to many of you is…..

Inside of you is a star! That star is your guiding light. Not me, not another poster. YOU. YOU are your guiding light. Ya just have to get past the fear. You just have to ACCEPT YOU, learn to LOVE you, Choose happiness over everything else. Find the issues and fears that you have and then slay them – one at a time. They may not go away today…but just knowing what they are EMPOWERS you to make choices that are TRUE to YOU. You are star! Every single answer to your question is inside you.

If you work on you – fully – if you totally commit YOU to YOURSELF, to healing YOUR core. You will be happy. You will have an inner peace and joy.

Stop looking at your spouse – focus on you and face your fears!

Life is a river…..it flows…it changes….. YOU can’t control it.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
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Originally Posted by Zues126
The goal of this post is to avoid misinterpreting their WAS's mixed messages resulting in actions that hurt ourselves, our WAS's, and our chances for the M.

If you're an LBS it's important that you don't assign too much meaning to signs of warmth or indecision from your WAS. One of the easiest mistakes to make is to assume other people feel and think similar to how we do. In our LBS minds it's easy to project how we feel or how we desperately want our WAS's to feel onto them. Maybe this is part of denial, we simply can't imagine things not working out so we are just waiting for the sign that shows us this is the part of the movie where everyone falls back into each others arms.

Hey, we're human, we're going to feel desperate at times and get our hopes up at times. That's fine. We just can't let it derail the road we need to walk.

WAS's are much farther gone that we think. On these forums we say the marriage is dead at BD. That maybe if you do your work and they do theirs a day might come when the two people you become reengage, but this relationship is dead.

This isn't about giving up hope. I'm 100% in favor of standing for a marriage. It's about not allowing ourselves to be strung along and fed crumbs so we end up enabling an impermissible situation.

I remember when, 90 days after BD, my XW started sending me emails that demonstrated some regret. I'd been warned and was trying very hard to be deliberate and cautious. Very hard. I waited hours before I'd respond. I'd check with the boards. I was TRYING to reign my emotions in. But when she used phrases like "She hated divorce" and "She liked the person I was becoming" and "She missed talking to me" and asking if I was seeing anyone or if I still thought about us together, I was SURE this was a big break through! She finally was seeing what I saw, that we can work this out!!!

She called me late in the night and said she was drinking a little and she missed me and our marriage and was so lonely she didn't think she could make it through. I, the white knight I was, drove over to see her because she sounded like she was in a dark place.

You all buckled up? When I got there, she freaked out because OM was sleeping upstairs in the marital bed passed out. She was depressed because he had just told her he wanted to break up with her. I'll spare you what was by FAR the worst part (for those who like pain you can dig up my old thread) but I had a chance the next day to open up her phone and I was blown away with what I saw. She had been with many different guys, and she had a different persona via text message exchange with each of them including new OMs she was lining up. She also had one with her friend talking about how "Great, now I have to push Zues away again because of yesterday..."

This isn't my thread, but I hope this example is better than a general warning. Conflicting feelings and some sadness does NOT equate to remorse and commitment to the marriage.

So, how is it that they can express genuine regret, pain, loneliness, and warmth without meaning 'let's get the band back together?'
Simple. Those feelings are genuine, they just aren't commitment.

Pretend your WAS started using heroine habitually. Or started gambling away all of their money every paycheck. Do you think that they'd feel regret at times? Do you think they'd feel the pain of the consequences of their choices at times? Do you think that they'd miss their old life at times? Of course they would, but that's totally irrelevant. We know they do. The ONLY thing that matters is whether they have felt enough of those things to hit the rock bottom to where they'll actually commit 100% to changing their lives for the better. Even then it's lip service and only time will tell if their actions match their words.

So why do they do this to us? Simple. To avoid consequences.

Some is avoiding physical consequences. Maybe they want to control the speed of the breakup, like when you wade into cold water little by little. They aren't ready to be splashed yet, they're still working up to it- but they are going to do it on their time, in their way. They don't want you charging around now they have to deal with consequences like being cut off financially, or having family or mutual friends hear about their behavior, and it sure is easier to get you to agree to give them whatever they want whenever they want it when you are blinded by hope.

Some consequences they wish to avoid are emotional. So long as they string you along they aren't sacrificing their marriage for their love affair because they know they can get you back at any time, so they are just indulging themselves because they deserve to feel better. No, they don't want you back, but by knowing you are still there they don't have to deal with the sense of loss the same way they would if you moved on.

So how can they say they say they want to repair the marriage one day and then not follow through the next, you KNOW they were being genuine at the time. Hey, I'm not saying those emotions aren't real, just that they aren't the same as ongoing consistent behavior. There is something I call "Medicating with positive intent". Think of it this way. Say a friend is in an abusive relationship. Their partner just slapped them around. They call you crying and saying they can't take anymore. So what do they do? They talk to you for hours, making plans about where they will go, what they will do, and on and on. Guess what? Now they are feeling better. Empowered. Hopeful. They feel alright again...hmm...now they feel alright again, and guess what? Things aren't that bad. They do love so and so. They can get through it after all. I don't know about you but I've seen too many examples of people that truly convince themselves they are going to make a positive change because the good feelings that follow their well intended proclamation are all they really needed, no reason now to bother with all of that following through hard work stuff. It'll be ok. Right?

So what's an LBS to do?

Well, the first step is to read this like ten times and really understand it. Because while our feelings will be all over the map, we have a responsibility. If we truly love our WAS's we need to allow them to experience the consequences of their choices. This is the best chance to save the M. And if that isn't possible, consider it the last gift you give to someone you pledged your life to, ending on a positive note after all of the hurt. That gift means that when they are engaging in unhealthy choices that are destroying their lives we don't make it easy for them to keep doing it.

I'm not here to script out verbal responses to temp checks and displays of emotion, but the underlying message you need to communicate are things like this:
-Your not the shoulder to cry on anymore
-Getting back together isn't that simple anymore
-You are firm in your boundaries and won't accept [open marriage, loveless marriage, sexless marriage, uncommitted partner, disrespect, etc]
-You've told her everything you have to tell her and have nothing left to say (no R talks, never ever ever ever)
.

From our LBS view it seems like we're destroying our only hope. But WAS wants to have the R talk!!! If I blow them off then they'll blame me for being the one that ended it.

Hogwash. If WAS is seriously remorseful and ready to do anything and everything to work on the marriage they will let you know. They won't play games. The 'well then, that's why we can't work' card is manipulative and proof there is no lasting remorse. Any R talk that doesn't start with them going first with a list of apologies and re-commitments is just proving to her that you are willing to compromise your boundaries and remain emotionally involved with a wayward spouse. I repeat, this is hurting yourself, your WAS, and your chances of preserving your family.

In conclusion, if you are seeing signs that your spouse wants to return, post all about it here. Get it out of your system. Overreact on these forums. Tell us how it's going to work out after all, that we were wrong, that YOU KNEW your WAS, you KNEW they would fall back into your arms, that you think you are in piecing, etc, etc, etc. But please, for all that is good and holy, stay detached from them outwardly and give them time to see if they actually recommit, show true remorse, and prove it to you with consistent behavior over time. Keeping DBing and may you make it to the other side, whatever lies ahead.


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Originally Posted by Steve85
Next time a mutual friend calls and says wants to talk about your W, say "I don't want to talk about it, but I am willing to discuss how I am doing!" And then talk about how awesome your time with S3 is. How you've been staying busy. And how you've been work on yourself to be the best you can be. FOCUS OFF HER AND ONTO YOU!


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Originally Posted by Sage4
This is all so hard and you are in a tremendous amount of pain. I know it is hard to imagine, but every single person on this board has felt the same pain your are suffering at the moment. And we are all here, all surviving and many of us doing even better than we were pre-BD.

So, can I give you a few things to hold onto right now?

1. Forgive yourself.
2. Time will heal.
3. This too shall pass.
4. The heart is a wonder.

The rejection is clouding your ability to see your own life clearly. It happens to all of us. But you and only you are responsible for dealing with your reaction to the rejection. Once you have had a chance to really engage with that rejection and understand the root of your reaction, you will be well on your way to healing. So start there. In time, you will see that everything you are experiencing actually has little to do with your W and everything to do with your own emotions. So you really have way more power and control than you know. You will get there, we all do. Take one small step at a time.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
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Mixed messages is a horrible thing. The spikes in feeling good about things and then the drop once you realize it's not real is hard.

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Originally Posted by ScottB
I learned a simple lesson tonight. I texted my wife to ask for one of our laundry baskets back. We had four of them and she took all of them and I just wanted one (I now have none). So 3 hours later I’m sitting here gripping because i haven’t heard back. That was stupid. Go no contact, stay no contact, buy a stupid laundry basket.
Originally Posted by Steve85


When you do things out of the emotion. Anger ("SHE TOOK ALL THE LAUNDRY BASKETS!"). A sense of right ("I SHOULD AT LEAST GET 1 OF THEM BACK!") Or even hurt: ("WHY WOULD SHE TAKE ALL 4 AND LEAVE ME WITH NONE?") It is hardly ever going to be the right thing. I learned in my own sitch years ago that when I was emotional, DB principles went out the window. But when I remained calm and even, and even chuckled at the circumstance ("Ha, she even took all 4 laundry baskets...what a nut!") then I was able to think clearly, remember what I had learned, and apply it.

It doesn't come naturally though. Our first instinct is to do what you did. I failed early on too, but I remained committed to DBing and got better at it. I was never separated from my W, we were IHS, but she did a lot of little things to "test" me. Learning to let go and realize BEFORE you give into your instincts that "it is just a laundry basket!" will eventually become easier for you.

One tactic we try to get LBSs to try is to come here and use the forum as a test balloon. "Hey, my STBXW took all 4 of the laundry baskets when she moved out. Should I text her and ask for one back?" The forum is really good at giving you advice before you take action. So next time you have the urge to fire off a text message, even in response, come here first and get advice.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
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Originally Posted by Joe2017

I had a lot of threads, so to recap if you don't know my story: Thanksgiving time three-ish years ago my W dropped the "it's not working out" and the ILYBINILWY stuff. I find evidence of OM. WW denied and went full aggro on me. Called the police and tried to get me arrested in front of our kids. The whole thing was crazy. Few months later the D was final. Maybe the fastest D in the history of this site. I lost my truck, my house, and dog. Like a country music song. I thought I was losing my life.

About a year later I got a very sincere apology from her. My ex wanted everything back that she threw away. She had it good with me. So we dated again, and she called OM and told him she was wrong for getting involved with him. She took a STD test. She apologized to my kid. She was subservient. And she eventually went back to her narc ways. Being dishonest, etc... then I found out about an addiction issue she successfully hid from me during all the years of marriage. We split up again. We're friendly now. Sometimes she'll call or text me. It's not a big deal. She's been forgiven. She knows a lot of people and will probably be beneficial to me in the future for business purposes.

Anyhow! Three years later and I'm great. My kid is doing well. I finished school. I got a decent raise at work. I bought a new vehicle. I bought my own house that is MY HOUSE. I've had a lot of time to reflect. I went and got a life. I've read a lot about narcissism and learned new ways of healthy coping. I learned a lot about myself. I have made self improvements. I hopefully have taught my son what a strong independent person looks like.

During my D, this site helped save my sanity. The 2x4's, the truth I didn't want to read or hear, the positive thoughts and constructive criticism all helped me. We are all lucky to have this resource.

Some of the big things I learned are:

SAVE YOURSELF. NOBODY IS COMING! Sound harsh? It is. You might find help along the way, but it is up to you to save yourself. You still have to go to work and pay bills. You still have to be a parent and mentor your kids. You still have to be an adult. But you also still have to have fun. You have to laugh again. You have to accomplish goals again. You have to smile again. You still have life to live! GO LIVE IT!

Invest in your own mental health. I went to counselors. I went to Divorce Care. I read books. I read the Bible. I even got medicated until my mood evened out. This goes along with saving yourself. These things are important resources you may need to utilize, because depression and anxiety are formidable enemies that can be lying in wait. Save yourself!

Narcissists will never change. My ex wanted me back, but in a really selfish and codependent kind of way. I had to realize that I'd never be able to trust her again with my emotions, because a narcissist does not care about anybody else's emotions! If your WS is a narcissist, you likely just thought they loved you. But in reality, they are incapable of truly loving anyone else. They are instead, highly skilled manipulators. You know how you read thread after thread on these boards of wayward spouses (of any gender) that all have the same playbook? Yeah. It's an unchangeable mental condition. They ain't gonna change.

Spend the money on a good attorney. The big D is a complicated business transaction. I had a very straightforward process and the WW's attorney was still a very aggressive and very offensive person. If I did not have a well-seasoned attorney on my side I could have easily been manipulated during my moments of weakness. Did I mention divorce is a business transaction? Divorce is a business transaction. Business is brutal. Invest the money in your own future, hire a good attorney.

I did not NEED my ex back. I only wanted her back. I wanted my life back to the way things were because I was comfortable until the BD. I spent years developing our family, our relationships, our home. That's a lot of investment! But at no time did I actually need my spouse to return. I just thought I did, I desired that outcome. But I also wanted a Ford Mustang when I was a kid and I never got it. And things turned out just fine.

I am really good on my own! I still get lonely, but it's OK because I learned that my loneliness is NOT me missing my marriage. At first it seems this way, and WOW do the two feelings go hand-in-hand in the beginning! But they are NOT the same emotions. Things are messy in your heart and your head during a D. Me being lonely is cured by an hour with my kid or a phone call with my friends. Anyone coming out of a LTR needs to read everything they can about codependency. Even if you're not a full blown codependent, learning ways that codependents heal can really help you GAL. And GAL will save your life.

My heart goes out to all of you living through your own situations. Divorce is one of the hardest experiences to survive, but you will make it! You might piece your marriage back together, or you might not. No matter which outcome occurs, you will GAL and become version 2.0 of you. It is going to be OK! Don't give up!






Originally Posted by AnotherStander
Hey Joe, that's an awesome post and really resonates with me as I approach 10 years post BD. My XW isn't a narcissist but I can 100% back up every bullet point you made. The goal to surviving and eventually thriving isn't to save our M, it's to uncouple ourselves from our spouse and find our own footing. People talk about codependency like it's a bad word but really that's what marriage is SUPPOSED to be- you depend on someone else and they depend on you. You're a team. To lose half that team is a very difficult thing indeed, you feel like your life has been ripped in half because it HAS. So you've got to find a way to make yourself whole again, and as nice as it is to have some support through that, we really have to do all the heavy lifting ourselves.

I think most of us come out the other side never wanting to be -that- codependent again. Good or bad, we tend to keep new romantic interests at arm's length. That's not to say we don't open up to them and such, but we do that while maintaining our independence. We can do just fine on our own, or with someone else. As you said, we learn we don't NEED anyone else. We might want them, but wanting and needing are very different things. I want a Lamborghini but I will never have one and I am happy anyway grin

Anyway, that was a great post full of wisdom. Glad to hear you are doing well!



"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2910193#Post2910193

Originally Posted by AnotherStander
The good news is there's plenty you can do to tilt the scales! That's kind of the point of DB'ing, you make yourself into this awesome man with a great mix of alpha and beta qualities, and eventually when your W looks back then that is what she sees, not some sad, depressed, desperate wreck.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
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