LH, AS, and Ready2Change had some greats posts on that thread - so check those out. I have nothing to add right now, but wanted to start my new thread.
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Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
You are welcome. The moderators attempt to visit the threads when they have the time and if we see links, we remove them. At some point, if a poster continues to post links after we have warned them, we have the option of warning again and then putting that poster on moderation. I didn't want to see you put on moderation.
Last edited by job; 11/10/2010:06 PM.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
So, we were supposed to divy up the furniture tonight because she is moving out soon. That did not go well. I’m seeing the value of no relationship talks but it’s really hard when these decisions need to be made. My son stayed home from school today, he’s struggling with sleep, said he had a headache and a sore stomach.
At bedtime my daughter asked if we were getting divorced. She asked if we were going to remarry other people or remarry each other, and said she couldn’t decide who got her fish.
This stuff is real and tough.
It feels very close to I’ll have your lawyer call my lawyer. I’m starting to get angry - vapo said that’s the next stage - maybe that’s good, I don’t know.
Sorry Scott. I know how tough this stage is. Death by 1,000 little cuts. It really, really sux. You will get through this though. Promise. BTW... My D12 has a fish at my place AND at her dad’s place. The hardest part of that is remembering to feed the little sucker when she is at her dad’s.
Hopefully things won’t get so bad that you only talk through lawyers. That’s when the cost of things start to increase. My sister used to work as a family law paralegal and she could not believe how petty people get. She’s seen clients have their lawyer write a letter to their ex-spouse because the other person got their kids’ bangs cut...or a letter to a parent for refusing to give their kid prescribed medication because it was the other parent who took their kid to the doctor. Really really dumb and unnecessary stuff designed to do nothing but continue the conflict.
Keep your kids at the forefront of your mind and what is going to be in their best interest and you will come through this okay. Don’t base your decisions on your feelings. Take the high road as much as possible and rise above so that you can look back and be proud about how you handled yourself - regardless of the outcome of your M. You will be very glad you did and so will your kids. (((HUGS)))
Anger is normal and anger is good. If turned inwards it becomes depression. Just remembeto vent safely. Go yell at a tree in the middle of the woods or take a baseball bat to a trash can.
SB: What furniture do you think you would like, maybe this will be easy to work out? - W: I'd like the kitchen table and chairs and the banquet table that goes with it. SB: This might be more complicated than I thought then, that's a lot of furniture. W: I wasn't planning on taking anything but you wouldn't buy me furniture for my new home. SB: If you hadn't gone and bought the house before we headed to mediation we would have been able to go through a process to figure this out. W: If you hadn't told me to stay after I told you not to, I wouldn't have had to buy the house.
And from there it was a dumpster fire. When I get triggered I just can't get it under control. I try, but I just get too emotional. I don't know, Its so frustrating and I feel like a bit of failure. I just want her out of the house so I can have some peace.
We literally recorded our conversation because she has accused me of consistently saying something and then going back on it and I've done the same. The recording did force her to check herself, and me too. This just needs to be over. I'm sick about it.
My son is sick and home from school again. Feels worse than yesterday. Such a mess all the way around. I feel like just giving up.
It’s just furniture that can be replaced. She takes that then you take something of equal value. You are trying to make it seem that you are letting her go. If you argue every point that sets you up as her adversary.
Remember validation. About buying the furniture. You sound frustrated is that how you feel? Same with buying the house.
Scotty B learning to control you emotions should be a top priority in your self improvement. It will help you also in the business world.
I’m curious as to when you say “I feel like giving up”. What does that mean to you? If you decided you were giving up. What would change?
SB: What furniture do you think you would like, maybe this will be easy to work out? - W: I'd like the kitchen table and chairs and the banquet table that goes with it. SB: This might be more complicated than I thought then, that's a lot of furniture.
Scott, I'm not sure what you were expecting? She owns half the furniture, now unless you want to saw the table in half and divide the chairs up equally there are going to be things like this that go IN TOTAL to you or your W. You keep the living room furniture, she takes the dining room furniture. You keep D's bedroom set, she takes S's bedroom set. That sort of thing. If you want to keep more than half of it then you pony up money so she can buy furniture.
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W: I wasn't planning on taking anything but you wouldn't buy me furniture for my new home. SB: If you hadn't gone and bought the house before we headed to mediation we would have been able to go through a process to figure this out. W: If you hadn't told me to stay after I told you not to, I wouldn't have had to buy the house.
She has a point. You can't have it both ways. I know this is horrible to go through but you have to do it and you have to strive to be fair. Either divide up the furniture or help her purchase furniture. That's the fair thing to do.
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And from there it was a dumpster fire. When I get triggered I just can't get it under control.
Then tell her you need to take a break to cool off and will resume it with her later. Don't let your emotions get the better of you in front of her. Go for a walk or jog or drive or to the gym and whatever it takes.
What you're going through now for me was the most difficult time. Get through this and I think you'll find things start to improve quite a bit.
SB: What furniture do you think you would like, maybe this will be easy to work out? - W: I'd like the kitchen table and chairs and the banquet table that goes with it. SB: This might be more complicated than I thought then, that's a lot of furniture. W: I wasn't planning on taking anything but you wouldn't buy me furniture for my new home. SB: If you hadn't gone and bought the house before we headed to mediation we would have been able to go through a process to figure this out. W: If you hadn't told me to stay after I told you not to, I wouldn't have had to buy the house.
It is easy. You made it hard.
it could have been:
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SB: What furniture do you think you would like, maybe this will be easy to work out? - W: I'd like the kitchen table and chairs and the banquet table that goes with it. SB: OK.
In the future, use I statements, not you statements. Do not quibble over little things.
Many ways to skin the cat. Most things can be assigned a dollar value. One person assigns a dollar value and the other person can pick if they want the value or the item on their half of the balance sheet. Maybe do this with the big ticket items.
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SB: What furniture would like? - W: I'd like the kitchen table and chairs and the banquet table that goes with it. SB: OK. What do you value it at? W:$2000 SB:OK. (Then you do the same with an item you want) Keep alternating
Why are you doing this in person? Can you do this via email? That helps keep the emotions out and gives you both time to think and respond.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
SB: What furniture do you think you would like, maybe this will be easy to work out? - W: I'd like the kitchen table and chairs and the banquet table that goes with it. SB: This might be more complicated than I thought then, that's a lot of furniture. W: I wasn't planning on taking anything but you wouldn't buy me furniture for my new home. SB: If you hadn't gone and bought the house before we headed to mediation we would have been able to go through a process to figure this out. W: If you hadn't told me to stay after I told you not to, I wouldn't have had to buy the house.
And from there it was a dumpster fire. When I get triggered I just can't get it under control. I try, but I just get too emotional. I don't know, Its so frustrating and I feel like a bit of failure. I just want her out of the house so I can have some peace.
We literally recorded our conversation because she has accused me of consistently saying something and then going back on it and I've done the same. The recording did force her to check herself, and me too. This just needs to be over. I'm sick about it.
My son is sick and home from school again. Feels worse than yesterday. Such a mess all the way around. I feel like just giving up.
Oh my. The dumpster fire was you initiating the convo and then proceeding to talk way too much.
Let her come to you. Listen and validate. Don't haggle over things that don't matter.... And furniture does not matter.
You're letting you emotions guide you. Doing that will eliminate any chance of future R. Stop talking. Stop whining. Pull your big boy pants up and be an alpha..... Not a jerk.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Lots of good advice here on dividing up stuff. I also used the, "X is worth $Y to me" approach. This allowed us to divvy up everything in our house in one weekend and was far easy than figuring out exact valuations. I'm sure my ex-wife got some steals and so did I. For cars and houses, we got real valuations.
Scott, I get how hard these reality of the practicalities can be. My worst day was the day I came home from work and saw boxed and suitcases all packed for her to move out. It was devastating, especially how calm and unphased she seemed. I had to leave because I couldn’t stop myself crying. That was 3 months ago to the day, I am so much better, the thought of those practicalities bother me about 1/10th of what they did that day. Hang in there mate.
Me: 41 W:42 T: 14 M: 11 S: 6
"What happened happened, and couldn't have happened any other way...because it didn't"
I’m curious as to when you say “I feel like giving up”. What does that mean to you? If you decided you were giving up. What would change?
It means that I don't want to divorce bust anymore. I just want to be emotional and let stuff fall where it does. I don't want to try anything anymore. I just want to react, cry, whatever. I'm so worn out.
AS:
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Scott, I'm not sure what you were expecting? She owns half the furniture, now unless you want to saw the table in half and divide the chairs up equally there are going to be things like this that go IN TOTAL to you or your W.
I spoke to my attorney yesterday, who I hadn't spoken to in some time and she was pissed. She felt as though my wife was creating a mess. She's putting a ton of pressure on the situation by not waiting for the process to begin. All of these issues are meant to be handled in the process of mediation. By buying a house, trying to take furniture, and demanding access to all the money she is creating a disaster. My attorney said that if I don't like something and we can't agree then tell my wife she'll have to wait until mediation. I should not be put in a position where I am forced to make decisions AND if she wants to buy furniture for her home, which are not marital assets, then that will come out of her half. Anyhow, it was good to talk to my attorney. I agree that she owns half of everything, but we have to agree to stuff. She can't just make decisions and she shouldn't be pressuring me by buying a house that she needs to furnish. Not my problem. Of course, because my feelings are mixed up in this and my kids will live there is becomes my problem. What a mess.
R2C:
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It is easy. You made it hard.
I'll say that's fair, but if we had at least started all of this in a process, it would be easier. The fact she bought a house and now wants to establish custody of the kids, furnish the house AND stay on my full payroll in the meantime is a bit much. I was ready to give her the living room. The furniture in that room will cost about $5k to replace and the current stuff is junk. The dining room will cost less to replace and its nice. Net is probably only a delta of $3-4k. Not meaningful when we are looking at splitting up a significant pot of money. I'm just struggling with stuff and not making great decisions because of the pressure. Hopefully I can keep your comment above in mind when this comes up again.
And I agree 100%, this needs to be done over email.
Steve85:
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You're letting you emotions guide you. Doing that will eliminate any chance of future R. Stop talking. Stop whining. Pull your big boy pants up and be an alpha..... Not a jerk.
You're right. And Steve85, I know you were in a similar position. This isn't easy.
CW: Thanks for the thoughts.
OnlyBent:
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Scott, I get how hard these reality of the practicalities can be. My worst day was the day I came home from work and saw boxed and suitcases all packed for her to move out. It was devastating, especially how calm and unphased she seemed. I had to leave because I couldn’t stop myself crying. That was 3 months ago to the day, I am so much better, the thought of those practicalities bother me about 1/10th of what they did that day. Hang in there mate.
I'm dreading it. I take the kids on vacation the week of 11/21 and when I get home lots of stuff will be gone and I'll be alone. I'm not ready for it. I can feel the anxiety just thinking about it.
I spoke to my attorney yesterday, who I hadn't spoken to in some time and she was pissed. She felt as though my wife was creating a mess. She's putting a ton of pressure on the situation by not waiting for the process to begin. All of these issues are meant to be handled in the process of mediation. By buying a house, trying to take furniture, and demanding access to all the money she is creating a disaster. My attorney said that if I don't like something and we can't agree then tell my wife she'll have to wait until mediation. I should not be put in a position where I am forced to make decisions AND if she wants to buy furniture for her home, which are not marital assets, then that will come out of her half. Anyhow, it was good to talk to my attorney. I agree that she owns half of everything, but we have to agree to stuff. She can't just make decisions and she shouldn't be pressuring me by buying a house that she needs to furnish. Not my problem. Of course, because my feelings are mixed up in this and my kids will live there is becomes my problem. What a mess.
Scott, my apologies, I somehow missed the part where the two of you had plans to engage in mediation. I think your lawyer's advice is spot-on. Your W is driving all this, and any bad timing is on HER, not you. If your mediation isn't scheduled yet, or is scheduled way past when W plans to move, well that's your W's fault. If the two of you can peacefully resolve division of furniture then go for it, I'm sure the mediator would tell you that if you can do that on your own then no problem, one less thing they have to assist with. BUT, like your L said, if you can't resolve it then put it off to the mediation. "But I'll have to move into an empty house blah blah blah!!!!" Just validate. "I understand this is frustrating for you." "So then give me XYZ!" "No, we don't agree on that. And since we can't come to an agreement we will have to resolve things through mediation."
Again like I said before, listen and validate, but hold your ground on what you feel is fair.
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I'm dreading it. I take the kids on vacation the week of 11/21 and when I get home lots of stuff will be gone and I'll be alone. I'm not ready for it. I can feel the anxiety just thinking about it.
I'm not going to sugar-coat this. This whole process is probably going to be the hardest thing you go through in your life. Certain steps, like the actual separation, are extremely painful. It feels like getting your insides ripped out. The best advice I can offer is allow yourself the pain and misery and suffering. Let it happen, don't pretend it's not happening. Don't try to bury it in a dark corner somewhere. Allow yourself to grieve. It's the shortest path to recovery. I am not a crier, was raised in a "men don't cry" household and as such, even if I want to cry I find it extremely difficult. But man oh man through BD and S I cried so much it was nuts. I bet in one week I cried more than I had in the previous 50 years before that. I have a 30 minute commute and would cry all the way to work. Then all the way home. Even after getting home sometimes I would lock myself in the bedroom and cry some more. It brought no immediate relief, but I think eventually it helped me get over things. Let it out in whatever way works for you. Maybe you scream in your car. Maybe you cry. Maybe you work out until your muscles are screaming out in agony. Maybe you gripe to a close friend (that doesn't know or talk to your W). I personally did all those and more. Please avoid drinking though, my brother nearly became an alcoholic after his separation. He gained a large amount of weight and was drinking every night. He let himself and his house go, and he really never has gotten over it even though it's been over 10 years.
I'm not going to sugar-coat this. This whole process is probably going to be the hardest thing you go through in your life. Certain steps, like the actual separation, are extremely painful. It feels like getting your insides ripped out. The best advice I can offer is allow yourself the pain and misery and suffering. Let it happen, don't pretend it's not happening. Don't try to bury it in a dark corner somewhere. Allow yourself to grieve. It's the shortest path to recovery. I am not a crier, was raised in a "men don't cry" household and as such, even if I want to cry I find it extremely difficult. But man oh man through BD and S I cried so much it was nuts. I bet in one week I cried more than I had in the previous 50 years before that. I have a 30 minute commute and would cry all the way to work. Then all the way home. Even after getting home sometimes I would lock myself in the bedroom and cry some more. It brought no immediate relief, but I think eventually it helped me get over things. Let it out in whatever way works for you. Maybe you scream in your car. Maybe you cry. Maybe you work out until your muscles are screaming out in agony. Maybe you gripe to a close friend (that doesn't know or talk to your W). I personally did all those and more. Please avoid drinking though.
OMG..Yes. The pain I felt was worse than the pain of my brother passing away.
The only thing I would like to add is to find a safe place to express and feel all your emotions. In the presence of your spouse is not a safe place to do this. You are the Rock than can handle this when in her presence.
Crying is an emotional release and I always feel better after a good cry. I channel my anger into productive actions. I keep thinking a rage room would be fun. Driving in my car with music triggers all of my emotions and I can let them out while driving. If they get overwhelming, I can pull over into a parking lot. I can scream with Anger. I can get sad and cry with some songs.
Hang in there brother.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
I’m curious as to when you say “I feel like giving up”. What does that mean to you? If you decided you were giving up. What would change?
It means that I don't want to divorce bust anymore. I just want to be emotional and let stuff fall where it does. I don't want to try anything anymore. I just want to react, cry, whatever. I'm so worn out.
Scotty I know how you feel. I tried for two years to keep my family together. It's ok to cry. When my ex and kids took a trip for a week without me after D was filed, I was doing great great and enjoying my alone time. Then one day out of no where I hit the floor crying uncontrollably for a half hour. I couldn't even move it hurt so much. This is all a distant memory for me now.
I think it's time to lay down your guns and walk away. You fought a good fight. Four years in limbo is enough. Time to start thinking about your future in regards to the three of you as a family. What do you want to do with the house? We had a living room I was only in at Christmas time. It had all her furniture and she didn't want a TV in it. So the first thing I did when she left was put a 70 inch TV on the wall and bought all new furniture. Now it's my favorite room. You get to make all the decisions and can include your children too.
What you do not want to do is burn any bridges because you have no idea what the future holds. Hold firm on what's fair, cry when you are alone and keep moving forward.
Unfortunately by the time you got here your fate was sealed (you had no idea) and there was absolutely nothing you could have done to have prevented this outcome. I am really sorry and I do promise you that you will be happy again.
However I would like to make an important point. And that is that WE ALL came to this site to bust the divorce. WE ALL came here to save out marriage.
But this is not the point of this site. Divorce busting is not about saving marriages. It is about saving oneself. I will repeat this VERY important point. Divorce busting is not about saving the marriage, it is about saving yourself, getting through one of the most dificult times in your life and coming out the other end as a better person with more knowledge and newfound superpowers.
Divorce busting is about coping with sadness, coping with destruction of your life, coping with descimation of your family and it really does seem that your whole life gets turned into one hot mess.
What ever you are feeling at the moment, it will get better, you will be happy once again, you will thrive.
Hang in ther, you are not alone. There are people from all over the world in your corner rooting for you, willing to take the time out of their lives to help you get through this.
I took my wedding ring off when I went to sleep last night. I didn’t put it back in this morning. I don’t think I’ll wear it again. I had a nice talk with a family member. She said that she had heard what I was going through and the first thing out of her mouth was, that’s not Scott’s fault, he’s a catch. He’s loyal and loves his family. That’s her fault. And then she said she wanted to take me out with her friends to cheer me up - a bunch of 30 year old girls.
I told her a bit of my story, and this person knows us, she said I need to let go. She said that my wife was messing with my kind. She said she is controlling and manipulative and she has this over me because I’m a good man who never gives up. She said because I ve never failed at anything I don’t know how to let go, but I failed at this and it’s time to let go.
She also said my wife really should get into counseling and on an antidepressant but, that’s not my job anymore. This family member is really good with relationships and personal dynamics. I’ve heard similar things from others, but this time it felt like it hit home.
I need to stop letting her control me by giving up, dropping the rope, and letting go.
Scott, you didn't say whether this family member has any interactions with your W, but if she does then this could blow up in your face. Sometimes people think they can be the Great Peacemaker and they try to intervene and "wake up" the WAS. The WAS sees it as the LBS trying to "rally the troops" against her and will react on a scale that ranges from "aggravated" to "nuclear explosion". Don't talk to people unless they don't know your W from the Queen of Scotland and will never interact with her.
I had a coworker whose W had run up their credit card and emptied their bank account without his knowledge (not because she wanted to leave, she just had a problem controlling her shopping habits). He was DONE and immediately left her and filed for D. She called me (I was his boss), his family, their church pastor, and half a dozen of his coworkers to try to get us all to "talk some sense" into him. Oh man oh man what a disaster that was, he had been firm about leaving her but not angry about it, but after that he was absolutely furious and wanted nothing to do with her.
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She also said my wife really should get into counseling and on an antidepressant but, that’s not my job anymore. This family member is really good with relationships and personal dynamics. I’ve heard similar things from others, but this time it felt like it hit home.
You are correct about it not being your "job". In fact, you are the last person your W would take that suggestion from. We've seen any number of WAS's get into therapy, typically the therapist tells them what they want to hear and helps steer them towards divorce. So that's no magic bullet in saving the M unfortunately.
We've seen any number of WAS's get into therapy, typically the therapist tells them what they want to hear and helps steer them towards divorce. So that's no magic bullet in saving the M unfortunately.
Its also important to know that the therapist can only work off the story being told to them...
Me: 41 W:42 T: 14 M: 11 S: 6
"What happened happened, and couldn't have happened any other way...because it didn't"
Steve - the person I spoke to was 66 with a 30 year old daughter. And if hanging out with a fun 30 year old family member after this is wrong, so be it.
I was walking and typing and trying to protect a degree of anonymity, so i might not have been clear.
I’ve had a great night. Went and had a bourbon with a friend. Came home to dinner cooked by my wife, then went to a neighbors and sat by his firepit and drank some beers. It was great. Not sure how my wife felt about the night, but I had a good time. Now I’m watching some Ted Lasso, and will go to bed in the hour. Win win win.
I’ve also learned that when I feel anxious a 30 minute walk really helps. This morning was lonely. Everyone is still here but I can feel the future - at least in the short term, as everyone slept.
Just need to get through this week so i can get to our vacation with my family next week.
Steve - the person I spoke to was 66 with a 30 year old daughter. And if hanging out with a fun 30 year old family member after this is wrong, so be it.
I was walking and typing and trying to protect a degree of anonymity, so i might not have been clear.
" a bunch of 30 year old girls."
I guess you didn't mean that?
Edit: oh, maybe I assumed you followed through on going out with her and her friends. Apologies if I misunderstood.
Last edited by Steve85; 11/14/2007:26 PM.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Tonight was interesting. My kids went over to a neighbors party, I was struggling as to whether i stayed with NKY wife or went along. I had been invited, but my wife didn’t know, she hadn’t been. Anyhow, she said I should go with the kids . Once I got there they asked what she was doing and they invited her to but she stayed at home. So the kids and I had a great time while she did who knows what. It was a little weird and made me sad, but oh well.
Same here. Though my W is buying extremely expensive clothes and accessories for her self. Closing in on 10 grand for just a few items. Also new boobs and fillers.
They change. You need to be prepared for that as detachment will continue to take time.
Me: 34 Stbxw: 30 D:5 D:3 Mini bd: May/June 2019 Married: Aug 2019 BD: 6th Dec 2019 OM Confirmed: Feb 2020 March 2020: I filed for D Waiting for D to be finalized and W to move out end of January 2021
Tattoos, boob jobs, new clothes, new BFFs, new attitude, new words, its clearly a thing. These aren't the same women we once knew. Theoretically should make detachment easier, because its a stranger!
Me: 41 W:42 T: 14 M: 11 S: 6
"What happened happened, and couldn't have happened any other way...because it didn't"
Tonight was interesting. My kids went over to a neighbors party, I was struggling as to whether i stayed with NKY wife or went along. I had been invited, but my wife didn’t know, she hadn’t been. Anyhow, she said I should go with the kids . Once I got there they asked what she was doing and they invited her to but she stayed at home. So the kids and I had a great time while she did who knows what. It was a little weird and made me sad, but oh well.
Why would you struggle with the decision to go to the party or stay with your stbxw? I really trying to understand your mindset? Help me.
LH - I’m not detached. I feel sorry for her that she’s all alone. And I like being with her, even though she’s not right. Anyhow, I went - so that’s a positive. And I slept until 8am today - the latest I’ve slept in weeks.
My wife isn’t getting fake boobs yet, and she’s not working out like a fiend (she’s put on weight), and she hasn’t bought a ton of new clothes. I’ve actually been impressed as she buys stuff for her new home because she’s buying used furniture off of Facebook marketplace.
Anyhow, regardless of what I do or what I learn I feel like I’m stuck in LH’s path. Nothing I can do to change it other than to move on to try and save myself. It just [censored]. I do think she might have some kind of personality disorder though it could just be perimenopause. Or, she’s just changed - I guess that’s hard for me to accept so I’m looking to blame it on something.
At least I had a fun weekend hanging out with friends each night. First time I’ve had a weekend like that in years.
So this kind of stuff drives me crazy. I found out that she enrolled in a Narcissistic Abuse Recovery Program for $97. I already knew she had labeled me as a narcissist. It drove me so crazy I asked my therapist at the time and my coach if it was true, they both laughed at me.
So she is 100% scapegoating me by labeling me with a condition and taking no ownership of our problems.
She’s convinced that’s what you are, so really not so strange. How she was convinced doesn’t really matter. Change in for the better and knowing yourself is what matters. Maybe she’ll notice/understand. Maybe not. But I totally get that it “drives you crazy”. It helped me to internalize that I probably won’t ever be having that discussion.
Me: 34 Stbxw: 30 D:5 D:3 Mini bd: May/June 2019 Married: Aug 2019 BD: 6th Dec 2019 OM Confirmed: Feb 2020 March 2020: I filed for D Waiting for D to be finalized and W to move out end of January 2021
I sometimes joke that statistically, everyone in my single parents' group was married to a narcissist--the term gets imho overused these days. There's obviously a difference between having Narcissistic Personality Disorder and being self-absorbed sometimes--welcome to the human race! She is trying to grow--as usual, not in the way you as a LBS would like or choose. If she pays attention, she will hopefully learn either your actions have little to do with NPD, or some techniques for better advocating for her own needs and boundaries in the relationship. Worst case, you can chuckle as she tries NPD abuse techniques on you such as Gray Rock or The Robot. I get upset when I'm called a liar when honesty is very important to me. It would suck being labeled narcissistic by a love one when you actually care about being a good person. You cared enough to share this diagnosis with others and check-in that they don't believe you have too many such traits.
She s far gone. I’ve just been thinking about it. The roots of this stuff go deep. All her new training on narcissists basically says if I do something good it’s a mind game, and If I do something bad it’s the real me. It reinforces her beliefs going back for years. It’s just crazy to me and so sad. This is almost over. Just a couple more days and she’ll be out of the house.
She s far gone. I’ve just been thinking about it. The roots of this stuff go deep. All her new training on narcissists basically says if I do something good it’s a mind game, and If I do something bad it’s the real me. It reinforces her beliefs going back for years. It’s just crazy to me and so sad. This is almost over. Just a couple more days and she’ll be out of the house.
Don't go thinking about what's going on in your W's head. Do not go there. It is a dark and weird place that you want no part of. Stay away. Buy a wristband and snap itwhen you start thinking about her mind.
So this kind of stuff drives me crazy. I found out that she enrolled in a Narcissistic Abuse Recovery Program for $97. I already knew she had labeled me as a narcissist. It drove me so crazy I asked my therapist at the time and my coach if it was true, they both laughed at me.
So she is 100% scapegoating me by labeling me with a condition and taking no ownership of our problems.
It happens/ has happened to all of us to some extent. There's a guy I know here locally that posts here sometimes. Very solid, kind, easy-going person. His wife enrolled in a local group for mentally abused women to help her address all the "mental abuse" he has heaped on her over the years, which as far as I can tell is completely in her mind. Wow, you want to talk about a group that feeds the WAS narrative! Like throwing gas on a fire.
My XW also at one point decided to explain to me how I needed therapy. She was right about that, but I needed it to deal with her waywardness and abandonment of me and the marriage, not because there was anything wrong with me! The therapist is the one that helped me understand there WASN'T anything wrong with me. Now she has nothing but good things to say about me, but around BD and for a couple of years after that was certainly not the case.
There was a WW that used to post here years ago who had reconciled with her H (not Sandi, there have been others too!) I remember her saying the hardest part of reconciling for her was having to explain to her friends and family why she was getting back together with the man that she had demonized to them for 2 years! She said she struggled with it so much that she actually considered not reconciling just to save herself the grief and embarrassment of having to tell everyone she had made it all up to justify her actions. How crazy is that?
I learned a new term today. Over Functioning. I’ll read on it more tomorrow, but my coach said I need to work on not over functioning. I found that really interesting, a new concept for me.
But the little I read, I am guilty of it. Had a great call with my coach. So that makes for a good day.
Vapo nailed it. Focus on you, Scott, not her. Who cares what she thinks. Move forward to being the best Scott you can be and living the best life you can live!
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
There was a WW that used to post here years ago who had reconciled with her H (not Sandi, there have been others too!) I remember her saying the hardest part of reconciling for her was having to explain to her friends and family why she was getting back together with the man that she had demonized to them for 2 years! She said she struggled with it so much that she actually considered not reconciling just to save herself the grief and embarrassment of having to tell everyone she had made it all up to justify her actions. How crazy is that?
I've often wondered how many actually consider reconciling but let this get in their way?
Me: 41 W:42 T: 14 M: 11 S: 6
"What happened happened, and couldn't have happened any other way...because it didn't"
Yesterday my colleagues invited me to a happy hour. It was fun. As I was leaving I realized that I've probably only gone to happy hour 5 times in the last 14 years. It was a combination of trying to work hard and also a guilty feeling knowing that my wife was at home with the kids and I wanted to get home to help out. Now the reality is, that I was afraid that if I went to happy hour and she found out she would get angry with me and I would be "in trouble." So it was just easier to turn down the invites and not go.
I do feel like that says something about our relationship, and its not a good thing. She did close on the house on Monday. She is buying furniture and dividing our furniture up. She hasn't brought up that I haven't been wearing my wedding ring, and oddly she continues to wear hers (technically we had agreed to keep them on until 11/27 but I couldn't wear mine anymore).
This week my DB coach really cracked me up. First he pointed out the Over Functioning take. Then he made the point that because I have over functioned, my wife has not needed to grow - in effect, I stunted her growth by taking ownership of stuff that wasn't mine to own. An example was last week when I felt bad about going to a friends to hang out because she would be alone.
He also asked me "When is Scott going to say enough is enough?" I thought that was pretty powerful. He said I need to go have fun. When I talk to her empathize. Don't be cold and unfeeling. Treat her as a capable woman. And that I need to make my decisions and not be needy.
An example: I had asked her if we were getting divorced or separated. He said enough of that. I get to make that decision to. All great empowering advice.
She'll be out of the house soon and I think that will make all of this a lot easier. I'm trying to plan two ski trips with the kids - which is super fun to think about, and who knows what else. Once I have some time on my hands I hope to get after it, just wish this Covid stuff wasn't going on.
Sounds like you put your W on a pedestal and your life revolved her and you had no outside interests. That’s probably why she feels smothered and trapped.
Also weird you guys agreed to remove your rings together on the 27th and then you broke that agreement and took yours off. Was keeping your word an issue in your marriage?
Once you get her out of the house you will feel more at ease. All you’re doing right now is closing a chapter in your book. Many chapters of the book remaining to be written.
YShe hasn't brought up that I haven't been wearing my wedding ring, and oddly she continues to wear hers (technically we had agreed to keep them on until 11/27 but I couldn't wear mine anymore).
Two red flags here. First, are you a man of your word or not? You agreed to keep them on until 11/27. She is living up to that.....you are not. You claim "I couldn't wear mine anymore". Is this a weight issue? You gained weight and it won't fit? Or are you using hyperbole to justify your breaking your word?
Second, "She hasn't brought up that I haven't been wearing my wedding ring". SERIOUSLY? After all this time you are still making decisions (take off my ring) hoping to elicit a reaction from her? And sorry, but if you are typing the quoted sentence then that means you were looking for her to notice. You are way too far along in this to be still making these kinds of rookie mistakes.
Originally Posted by ScottB
This week my DB coach really cracked me up. First he pointed out the Over Functioning take. Then he made the point that because I have over functioned, my wife has not needed to grow - in effect, I stunted her growth by taking ownership of stuff that wasn't mine to own. An example was last week when I felt bad about going to a friends to hang out because she would be alone.
Glad you find that funny because I find that sad. Where is Scott's backbone to say "this woman is leaving me. Forced me to have a conversation with my kids that broke their and my heart. And continues to push forward with things that are painful. Yet I feel bad about going to a friend's to hang because of how it might affect her!" You do not see that as being a problem?
Originally Posted by ScottB
He also asked me "When is Scott going to say enough is enough?" I thought that was pretty powerful. He said I need to go have fun. When I talk to her empathize. Don't be cold and unfeeling. Treat her as a capable woman. And that I need to make my decisions and not be needy.
Exactly what I was getting at above. Again, you might find it funny, I find it sad. Sad that Scott has so little self-identity that he cannot even do things for himself without "feeling bad".
Originally Posted by ScottB
An example: I had asked her if we were getting divorced or separated. He said enough of that. I get to make that decision to. All great empowering advice.
Holy crap. Really?? Why not just go get a hat or shirt that says "I am a needy, whiny baby." And wear it anytime you are around her to remind her of that fact.
Originally Posted by ScottB
She'll be out of the house soon and I think that will make all of this a lot easier. I'm trying to plan two ski trips with the kids - which is super fun to think about, and who knows what else. Once I have some time on my hands I hope to get after it, just wish this Covid stuff wasn't going on.
Careful here Scott. I think you are looking at her being gone as a good thing. However, I fear that this will cause you further setbacks. The reason is that I've seen a lot of LBSs that thought "If only we didn't live together" only to later regret that and wish like heck that she still lived here so they could show their changes. I hope you are right and it does get easier for you, but you seem to struggle so much with what she is and isn't noticing (see the ring above) that I am concerned the distance is going to create anxiety for you, not alleviate it.
I say all of the above not to 2x4 you, but to get you to see what you still need to work on. I love the last part of the last paragraph. About the ski trips and enjoying time with your kids. But a lot of what you are still expressing in your posts concerns me that you aren't doing a good enough of job of focusing on you. GAL, 180ing and self-improving, and working on detachment.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Careful here Scott. I think you are looking at her being gone as a good thing. However, I fear that this will cause you further setbacks. The reason is that I've seen a lot of LBSs that thought "If only we didn't live together" only to later regret that and wish like heck that she still lived here so they could show their changes.
Well seeming they are getting divorced I think it would be a good thing that she moves out. I would be uncomfortable living with your ex wife for sure.
Careful here Scott. I think you are looking at her being gone as a good thing. However, I fear that this will cause you further setbacks. The reason is that I've seen a lot of LBSs that thought "If only we didn't live together" only to later regret that and wish like heck that she still lived here so they could show their changes.
Well seeming they are getting divorced I think it would be a good thing that she moves out. I would be uncomfortable living with your ex wife for sure.
So now you're a fortune teller!
Seriously though you missed the point. It's not that they are living together since she's moving out, is that Scott thinks that will be a positive for his state of mind. I'm warning him that her being gone may make his state of mind worse. I've seen that a lot with a LBS.
Last edited by Steve85; 11/18/2008:57 PM.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I didn’t miss the point. He’s getting divorced and her moving out will be a huge relief for him. Not say his road is going to be easy there will certainly be ups and downs but he can’t start detaching until she’s gone.
Having experienced it, IHS is hell, and I did not handle it well. Being in that situation only caused me to do things that pushed my W further and further towards D and OM. She moved out, was it the worst day of my life....a resounding yes. But I am in a way better place and have regained a lot more control over myself. Am I still going to get divorced, yeah, it’s almost certain, but I don’t live in the hell that was the two months from June to August.
Me: 41 W:42 T: 14 M: 11 S: 6
"What happened happened, and couldn't have happened any other way...because it didn't"
Steve85 and LH19 are making two very good individual points.
ScottB, make sure you know why you are taking certain actions. They sound positive initially, however it all changes if they are for the wrong reason. Why did you take the ring off, why do you take such meaning from her still wearing hers?
Dig deep and understand your motives and reset if you need to. Heck, put the ring back on until the 11/27 it really doesn't matter to her at this point, so it should not matter to you.
Are you starting to pick up the rope again ScottB? drop it bud, let it go slack. When she leaves you don't want to be holding it.
Don't think about what you should do to make her see changes, she will just pity you.
Focus on ski holidays, experiences for you and your kids. Things are moving forward for you ScottB, your sitch is improving each day, although you may not feel it fully yet, you are now at the cusp of building a better future brick by brick.
It was a combination of trying to work hard and also a guilty feeling knowing that my wife was at home with the kids and I wanted to get home to help out. Now the reality is, that I was afraid that if I went to happy hour and she found out she would get angry with me and I would be "in trouble." So it was just easier to turn down the invites and not go.
I'm not trying to put everyone in the same box, but what you've described seems to be an overwhelming theme I've seen over the years. There are many who have NGS, and some that seem to go beyond being a nice guy. Those are the ones who fit the description above. Not only are they afraid of their W's disapproval and anger, but they spend their life trying to placate her just to keep her in a peaceful mood. He leaves the decision making up to her, and he becomes more passive by the day. He becomes a "Yes, Dear" H, and there is absolutely nothing manly or attractive about a "Yes, Dear" H. Some men think love is treating their W like royalty, and proceed to do all the house work, yard word, cooking, laundry, taking care of the kids, etc., etc., so the little princess doesn't have to lift a finger. This is wrong on so many levels I don't where to begin! It ruins a woman, b/c she grows to disrespect him as a man. She is bored with her life, has no responsibility or accountability, and she's not attracted to the man who is running around like Suzie Homemaker, in order to keep the peace with the little princess. Obviously, he has no idea what's he doing, or he would stop this nonsense immediately.
Spoiling your W is not love! If you make her the commander of your life.......you will live to regret it. She will drop you and go looking for a man she can't control. She doesn't want a wimp (no offense), she wants a man who is not afraid of her and will bloody well do whatever he wants. Ever wonder why some females are attracted to bad boys? It's not b/c they are bad people, and it's not b/c he abuses her. However, it's how he interacts with her (as well as other people) and she is drawn to his masculinity and independence. He doesn't succumb to the whelms or moods of others. She senses his authority, and his take charge-attitude, and she respects him for not allowing her (or anyone else) to treat him like cr@p. He keeps her in her place, (to use an unpopular phrase), and if she tries to challenge his manhood, his leadership, disrespects him in front of others, or gets all pi$$y b/c she doesn't like the way he order their food (or whatever)...... he has no problem setting her straight and if she can't be straighten out, he has no problem dropping her. The bottom is line is always respect. ALWAYS! A wife cannot feel desire for a husband she doesn't respect as a man. That will never change, b/c that's how God designed her.
He stands up for himself, and isn't a people pleaser, scared, little boy. (No offense) Now, I'm sure some feminists would not like how I've worded some of this, but I'm trying to get you to understand that you cannot allow your woman to wear the pants in the relationship. She may be the boss at work, but when it comes to your relationship........you are the leader, and if she refuses to cooperate, somebody has to have the final word, which should be the one in charge. You are the president and she's the vice president. I'm not saying you can't listen to her views and wishes, but when it comes to making decisions, the leader has the final say. She'll test you! But the minute you hand over your b@lls, she no longer values you as a man.
Scott, I give you credit for speaking the truth. Now, here's the thing I hope you'll seriously consider. YOU are the one with this problem, and the next relationship will be the same as this one if you don't change your way of thinking about marriage and women. What caused you to fear her disapproval? Why did you cut everything out of your life, except what was she permitted? IMHO, this is not love. You lose your identity as a man, and become co-dependent on a wife who doesn't even respect you. Find out why you felt this way, b/c you can change if you want to change. However, you do need something or someone to teach you. You could marry the sweetest gal in the country, but if you can't stand up to her when she says something disrespectful, or makes a facial expression that indicates her disrespect for you (you know her attitude is disrespectful and she'll continue to get worse). The sweet girl you married will change, and not for the better. A husband's passivity brings out the worst in the wife.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Having experienced it, IHS is hell, and I did not handle it well. Being in that situation only caused me to do things that pushed my W further and further towards D and OM. She moved out, was it the worst day of my life....a resounding yes. But I am in a way better place and have regained a lot more control over myself. Am I still going to get divorced, yeah, it’s almost certain, but I don’t live in the hell that was the two months from June to August.
Everyone is different. I did IHS with a WAW/WW, for a few months and was able to detach and back off enough to get her to move back to the marriage. But we've seen the "grass is always greener" dynamic on this board. Where the IHS LBH struggles thinking it will be easier with the WAW out of the house. And the physically separated LBH struggling with wondering what's she is doing and who she is doing it with.
Since Scott had struggled mightily with detachment, I think he is going to struggle with separation as much as he did with IHS. I hope I'm wrong for his sake. But he's got a lot of pain coming. The moving out. The kids staying over there. The inevitable OM coming on scene (whether he's new or she's had him in shadows the entire time). We've seen this movie before.
PS or IHS, the lBHs that struggle the most do GAL the worst, and focus too much on the WAW. Scott has epitomized that. I was hoping the divorce busting coach would help him, but then I see him still making the mistake of asking her if they are just separating or getting a D. He's struggled and her moving out isn't likely to help him. Especially since a very wise person told me a very important truth: WAWs don't need their own place to find themselves or work on the marriage, they need their own place to sleep with other people.
I just hope Scott is gaining the strength to face what is coming his way.
Scott, I'll keep you in my prayers my friend! Remember, you can't control her, but you do control you. Focus on what you can control!!
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Now, I'm sure some feminists would not like how I've worded some of this, but I'm trying to get you to understand that you cannot allow your woman to wear the pants in the relationship. She may be the boss at work, but when it comes to your relationship........you are the leader, and if she refuses to cooperate, somebody has to have the final word, which should be the one in charge. You are the president and she's the vice president. I'm not saying you can't listen to her views and wishes, but when it comes to making decisions, the leader has the final say. She'll test you! But the minute you hand over your b@lls, she no longer values you as a man.
I guess the obvious modification for us feminists--who don't want unequal (president/vice-president) romantic relationships--is "You are the president OF YOURSELF. When it comes to making decisions ABOUT YOUR ACTIONS, the leader has the final say." Which still means don't accept being bossed around.
Now, I'm sure some feminists would not like how I've worded some of this, but I'm trying to get you to understand that you cannot allow your woman to wear the pants in the relationship. She may be the boss at work, but when it comes to your relationship........you are the leader, and if she refuses to cooperate, somebody has to have the final word, which should be the one in charge. You are the president and she's the vice president. I'm not saying you can't listen to her views and wishes, but when it comes to making decisions, the leader has the final say. She'll test you! But the minute you hand over your b@lls, she no longer values you as a man.
I guess the obvious modification for us feminists--who don't want unequal (president/vice-president) romantic relationships--is "You are the president OF YOURSELF. When it comes to making decisions ABOUT YOUR ACTIONS, the leader has the final say." Which still means don't accept being bossed around.
hoo boy! Thanks CW!
(And in the interest of sharing a different perspective... there is nothing more of a turn-off to me than a man who thinks they are the president and I should be the vice-president. I could never respect someone who thought that way (and by the way I do agree that respect and desire are connected). Whatever floats your boat but not all women have an innate need to be told what to do.)
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
LH: You’re right, I did put her on a pedestal. She was my purpose in life. I gave up poker, slowly withdrew from friends to “save the marriage”, dealt with her infidelity, and took all of her feedback to heart to change who I was. I did everything she asked and I lived in fear of disappointing her. Not a healthy way to live.
I always kept my word in our marriage, but I needed to take the ring off for me. This was about me finally standing up for me. You may read that differently, but that’s how I feel about it. I needed to begin to take control for me and do what I want.
Steve85: I took my ring off for the first time in our marriage one week ago. She has taken her rings off over the years as a way to punish and hurt me. I couldn’t wear it anymore because it was preventing me from moving on. Second, I am still afraid of her – that’s crazy. I’m afraid of when she brings up that I haven’t worn mine and I’ll have to own it. I obviously have work to do. I am co-dependent and have struggled with self-differentiation and detachment.
And when I say it cracked me up – I wasn’t laughing, I meant the irony of it all. After all I’ve been through, I still can’t detach. I still worry about her, and she still influences my decisions. And I completely agree that I’ve lost myself and it is sad. And I am looking at her being gone as a good thing. I need to rebuild myself and I need space to do it, even if it comes with pain. And I agree with LH that her moving out will help me finally detach. Its very hard still sleeping in the same bed, eating dinner together as a family every night, and being in the same space after the kids go to bed, etc.
LPlates: I took my ring off because it was a constant reminder of my commitment and my marriage. I couldn’t let go of anything with it on. I needed to begin to let go. She determined we would wear them till 11/27. I had wanted to take them off a week before and I agreed to something I shouldn’t have.
And LPlates, very perceptive – I do think I’m picking up the rope, I’m not sure I ever laid it down. I feel like I’m crazy. I feel resigned to what is happening and I waffle between acceptance and non-acceptance. And thanks for the encouraging words. I really appreciate it.
Sandi2: I don’t disagree at all with you on the NGS but what’s crazy is her perception that I make all the decisions, that she has no power and no decision making authority and that I don’t think about her at all. That is what really messes with my head and makes me second guess myself. It has also continually drawn me in to do more around the house, to pull away from my friends, etc. as I’m called selfish, a narcissist, controlling, etc.
And that first paragraph you wrote was dead on. I just couldn’t break out of that cycle because if I did less I would hear about it. And she said her love language was acts of service so I always felt the need to do more. It didn’t start in this place it was years and years of her beating on me that moved me to do more and more and give up more and more to “save” the relationship. I think I’ll learn from this on the next one. I think the key will be taking enough time to recover and find myself again.
Steve85: IHS never happened at my house. The only thing that happened was we didn’t have sex. There was some intimacy in several times she got naked and let me give her massages, and that was returned once, but no hanky panky during.
CW / May22: My wife believes I have a my way or the highway agenda. I grew up in a family where you spoke your opinion, it was honored, everyone spoke, and then you worked together for the best outcome. My wife grew up in a family where her voice was not honored. I really couldn’t understand that until this year. So I would speak my mind and she would stay silent and then resent the decisions I made. If I asked her for her opinion on anything, she would just defer to me and resent me for it.
All and all, I hope to grow and get stronger. I don’t want to get divorced, but I do want to become a better version of myself. I need to detach, I think the space will help with that. We will never go back to the old relationship, but maybe there is a new one in the future with her – or someone else. Time will tell.
As divorce busting goes, I think the theme is that this for me; if its for her I’m doing it wrong. And I think the space will allow me to focus on myself. Its scary but has a chance to be really good.
Like I 've said before Scotty, my W moving out was the worst day of my life, 3 months later I'm ok. Certainly the pain of that day is gone. I'm not advocating to for either, what I do want to tell you is that you'll be ok. And as I've been told by many people, and am starting to believe, is that life will be great again soon, whatever the outcome.
Me: 41 W:42 T: 14 M: 11 S: 6
"What happened happened, and couldn't have happened any other way...because it didn't"
Well, today is the last day. I’ve been waiting for this day since she bought her house. I’m still sad though. I never thought I would be in this place. I accept it. I’ll move forward. But it hurts. The kids and I leave for a week to spend the holiday with my parents. I look forward to their love and comfort. When I get back half the stuff in the house will be gone. I know I’ll adjust, but today I’m sad.
Well, today is the last day. I’ve been waiting for this day since she bought her house. I’m still sad though. I never thought I would be in this place. I accept it. I’ll move forward. But it hurts. The kids and I leave for a week to spend the holiday with my parents. I look forward to their love and comfort. When I get back half the stuff in the house will be gone. I know I’ll adjust, but today I’m sad.
Scott, you have to brace yourself for the inevitable. Likely she has someone waiting in the wings. I remember when my W was wanting to get an apartment and move on, I consulted with an anti-D author and she told me that women didn't need their own place to work on the marriage or to find themselves. They needed their own place to sleep with other people. So you have to brace yourself. The appearance of an OP, either one that was there all along or a brand new one often sets LBSs back, especially those that have struggled to detach.
So just focus on you and your kids. You will get through this and be healthy and happy! But you have to work on yourself.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Struggled all day and then my wife was home and left to go someplace with the kids. A neighbor invited me over to a block party and saved me. Having a lot of fun. My wife came home and wanted to know where I was. Went home and made dinner about an hour after she was looking for me and then shocked her when i went back over after dinner. She seemed really surprised and less than thrilled. But it saved me and saved my night. I would have been bumming at home but now I’m having a great time. I’ll head home in a couple of hours, sleep, and then off to vacation. Small wins.
Struggled all day and then my wife was home and left to go someplace with the kids. A neighbor invited me over to a block party and saved me. Having a lot of fun. My wife came home and wanted to know where I was. Went home and made dinner about an hour after she was looking for me and then shocked her when i went back over after dinner. She seemed really surprised and less than thrilled. But it saved me and saved my night. I would have been bumming at home but now I’m having a great time. I’ll head home in a couple of hours, sleep, and then off to vacation. Small wins.
GAL is for real. When you do it well you'll be shocked at how much it helps.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Friday night, after dinner I went back over to the neighbors, my wife seem agitated by that. At 10p I took my daughter home with me and locked up the house. My mother in law, who has been instigating my divorce, sent a card of support to my son (but not my daughter) and he had no interest in it. Not sure I mentioned it but she is abusing their grandfather who has dementia and should be reported to someone.
I went upstairs to put the kids to bed and realized that i guess my wife had gone over to the same party i was at so i text her to let her know i had grabbed my daughter and gone home.
She came in and said goodnight to the kids and was ridiculously angry. I think she thought i had locked her out on purpose. I asked her what was wrong when we got in bed and she said “good night Scott” in an angry tone. I wanted to push for ore but let it go. And I kept telling myself “I’m not responsible for her feelings.” But admittedly it was hard.
The next morning the kids and i left for vacation. On the second day here. It’s going well, the kids are happy. I’m doing okay but surprised by how much I miss having her around. I figure it’s good to go no contact while we are gone and we’ll see how much healing I can do this week. But so far, I can feel that this is going to be a little harder to let go of in the weeks to come.
It is nice not to be walking on eggshells this week though.
Two small things. First, stop asking her what's wrong. Second, not only should you be no contact when you are on your trip, you should be no contact from here on out.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Steve is right in both accounts. No contact should be your main focus (apart from being a father) the next few weeks. Also, no idea analyzing what made her angry. Could be anything really. Though great job not taking pushing for more!
Me: 34 Stbxw: 30 D:5 D:3 Mini bd: May/June 2019 Married: Aug 2019 BD: 6th Dec 2019 OM Confirmed: Feb 2020 March 2020: I filed for D Waiting for D to be finalized and W to move out end of January 2021
Three days into vacation with the kids, no contact with my spouse. The consistent low dose feeling of anxiety that comes and go is interesting. I know that will wane in time. It’s just interesting to feel this heartache consistently. 20 years is a long time to be with someone so i guess regardless of how much fun you’re having, when you know your relationship is over, it’s just going to be there for some time. I know it will eventually go away, a little more days by day, but I thought this week would be easier surrounded by family in a warm beautiful location. Off to go fishing with my son and dad.
Three days into vacation with the kids, no contact with my spouse. The consistent low dose feeling of anxiety that comes and go is interesting. I know that will wane in time. It’s just interesting to feel this heartache consistently. 20 years is a long time to be with someone so i guess regardless of how much fun you’re having, when you know your relationship is over, it’s just going to be there for some time. I know it will eventually go away, a little more days by day, but I thought this week would be easier surrounded by family in a warm beautiful location. Off to go fishing with my son and dad.
It only goes away when you make the conscious decision to drop the rope and let go. I sense you still haven't done that. I get the sense that somewhere, deep down inside, Scott is hoping that the no contact through this vacation will get her to change her mind.
Scott, she is moving out. You are more than likely getting a D. You need to just face those facts, and move on with life. Yes 20 years is a long time to be with someone. But you are so hyper-focused on the R ending that you aren't really letting it go. It is holding on despite saying you are letting it go. You cannot fix this. No matter what you do. All you can do is learn to be a healthy, happy Scott. And that starts by not letting her control your happiness when she is 100s of miles away.
You've got this. You will be better than just fine, you will be awesome!
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
LH: I really had to think about that. I generally have not wanted her to feel bad feelings so I’ll listen and empathize. But I’m definitely more emotionally reactive when I feel as though I’m the cause.
Either way I’m three days of no contact. I won’t reach out to here while I’m on vacation, which ends Friday. At that point we will have to discuss kids logistics.
LH: I really had to think about that. I generally have not wanted her to feel bad feelings so I’ll listen and empathize. But I’m definitely more emotionally reactive when I feel as though I’m the cause.
Either way I’m three days of no contact. I won’t reach out to here while I’m on vacation, which ends Friday. At that point we will have to discuss kids logistics.
Logistics do not count against no contact. Just make sure to stick to business.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
LH: I really had to think about that. I generally have not wanted her to feel bad feelings so I’ll listen and empathize. But I’m definitely more emotionally reactive when I feel as though I’m the cause.
Either way I’m three days of no contact. I won’t reach out to here while I’m on vacation, which ends Friday. At that point we will have to discuss kids logistics.
The problem is Scotty is you are not responsible for her feelings and it is certainly not your job to make her feel better anymore. You two really need space from one another.
It’s one thing to know I’m not responsible for her feelings and a completely separate thing not to feel it. I believe The space will end and separation will clear that up.
It’s one thing to know I’m not responsible for her feelings and a completely separate thing not to feel it. I believe The space will end and separation will clear that up.
Space, time and separation can help Scott. But I have to caution you that if you do not put in the work you will still remain stuck. We had a poster here who literally was forbidden by law from reaching out to his separated spouse (TRO) except for matters of child custody. We watched him struggle for the better part of two years, despite all the time, space and separation. He wasn't even allowed to exchange their child with her, it had to be arranged through others. Yet because he did GAL so poorly, because he stopped working on his own self-improvements, and because he couldn't make progress on detachment, despite all of that 2 years later he was still hopelessly attached.
This is why I say IHS or physical separation, the magic is in the DB efforts. Those that struggle the most whether they see their spouse everyday, or whether they are physically separated, are the ones that do GAL, 180s and detachment the worst. This is why I hate to see people try to short-circuit it by dating before they are ready. I tell the story all the time of my ex-GF, and how I was hopelessly attached to her. I would date other girls, and as soon as my Rs with those other girls would end, guess who I missed? Not them, her! Because I hadn't properly dealt with the emotional baggage I was carrying from her.
Scott, you just spent the first 4 days of vacation counting the days of no contact and lamenting what you'll come home to. I implore you to start making plans for big GAL. Keep improving yourself and have a plan and goals to do so. And work on untangling your "feelings" from her words and actions. No space and separation can do that for you.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Based off this one statement, you still have lots of work to do on yourself. Do you understand why I say this?
Originally Posted by ScottB
R2C: is that because I care how she feels and it bothers me?
LH19 and steve85 gave you insight.
From my pov:
1) You are making an assumption about "why" she is agitated. 2) Even if your assumption is true, you seem to be taking it personal. 3) Your focus should be on your emotional state, not hers. 4) Her emotional state should not shift yours. It is OK to empathize and validate. 5) This is not an "I statement". I believe that part of the growth that should happen during this phase of your life is going from an external focus to an internal focus. (for example: I was angry. I was frustrated. I went golfing. I decided. I went to dinner alone. I enjoyed it. I bought new clothes. I didn't respond. I just listened. I ended the conversation first. I didn't let it bother me. )
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Scott, I mean your very presence agitates, aggravates and annoys her. This is the thing many LBS's struggle with, I know I sure did. That woman who loved you and was crazy about you and stared at you with googly eyes now can't even stand to be in the same room with you. That's your current reality. As long as she's in the same house and sleeping in the same bed, the resentment will grow and grow. Like most of us did, you may still be clinging to the notion that if you do the "right thing" then she will go back to normal and love you again. You might not say it out loud, but you are thinking it. We all did. There simply is no "right thing" now though. Anything you do is either "see this is why I can't be with him anymore, he always does stuff like this" or "why is he fixing this now, it's too late, can't he see that?" The very fact that you do 180's will just make her even more resentful. "Why didn't he do this when I wanted him to?" Being a LBS is a no-win situation. All you can do is start laying the groundwork for a new relationship with her in the future while appreciating and understanding that you have already lost her.
So today is thanksgiving. Do i continue with the no contact or do i at least reach out with a happy thanksgiving. She’s alone today as far as I know. I figure a happy thanksgiving text would be nice. Thoughts?
Well Scotty B it depends on what you are trying to accomplish. If you are looking for your shot of dopamine then I wouldn’t do it. If you think you saying Happy Thanksgiving is going change her mind then I wouldn’t do it. If you are that super detached guy who doesn’t care she may read it while being in bed with another the man then I would say go for it.
So today is thanksgiving. Do i continue with the no contact or do i at least reach out with a happy thanksgiving. She’s alone today as far as I know. I figure a happy thanksgiving text would be nice. Thoughts?
No where in the rules of no contact does it make exceptions for national holidays. She's not your W anymore since she fired you as her husband. Stop continuing to act as if she is.
Last edited by Steve85; 11/26/2003:18 PM.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
LH - I get that my marriage is over. I was raised to do the right thing, forgive and move on. I was married to her for 14 years and dated for 6 before that. Seems like the right thing to do; not to get me something or anything like that but because it’s the right thing to do.
Just leaving a note from doctor glover. “Nice Guys Don't Finish Last, They Rot In Middle Management“
Me: 34 Stbxw: 30 D:5 D:3 Mini bd: May/June 2019 Married: Aug 2019 BD: 6th Dec 2019 OM Confirmed: Feb 2020 March 2020: I filed for D Waiting for D to be finalized and W to move out end of January 2021
Let me tell you a little story as I am home alone tonight on Thanksgiving. I like you once was desperately trying to keep my family together and that’s how I stumbled on to DB. I actually DB pretty well as to the point that my ex and I had sex up until she left. I was convinced she was just going through something and in time she would certainly realize what she had done to my kids, my family and myself. Now I will also admit that while married I wasn’t my bad self so I sympathized with her. So when we first D I would do kid’s birthday and Christmas together and even once went over to check her house when she thought someone was breaking because I thought it was the right thing to do and she would certainly see I was different. So about a year ago she calls me to tell me she’s seeing a guy that I know who is a friend of one of my friends. So now every get together has to be vetted through who is getting invited. Sometimes when I’m invited I’ll be asked how long I’m staying. So guess what? That makes me not want to spend time with those friends. Even though it’s really not their fault because they were thrown in the middle. So lastly to keep my house I had to get assistance from my dad which was found out by my sister and has the family in an uproar.
There’s more but this is getting to long anyways. Your journey is just beginning and you are going to have many ups and downs along the way and I am guessing that at some point after all the destruction to the many people involved. You saying Happy Thanksgiving to her will be the last thing you feel like doing.
LH - I’m not sure how many threads you started over the years but I did read through your first one and it did remind me of my situation. I would have been curious to read more.
I got back from vacation and dropped my kids off at their moms new house and came home to my house without the kids and walked in to see half of everything gone. I was able to keep my heart rate down and avoid a panic attack, but I could feel it. It made it all very real. My marriage is done and I know we are getting divorced.
I’m going to dinner with my cousin tomorrow night so that I have something to do. I’ll workout and I’ll try to rearrange some furniture so it doesn’t feel So empty.
I get the kids back on Monday, which is a blessing. And then I have them next weekend. I figure today was a tough day. I just have to work to make good decisions, one after the other, heal from this and move on.
Ok great you just surpassed one of the tough steps in the process. Try to put yourself focus on all the new changes you want to make to your house.
I only have one thread that I really don’t post on anymore. I am really only here to try to help people understand what’s really going on based on years of being here and research that I have done. For the WW is typically the pursuit of happiness and for the LBS it’s usually usually the loss of stability and control of their life. A life time of Disney and Hollywood movies make both sides think it’s about love but it’s not it’s just the human brain trying to keep us safe.
The brain makes up narratives to justify its case. The LBS will say “divorce destroys children” and the WW will say “kids are resilient”. Each side is going to hold onto their story until the end as each side fights for their position.
Scotty I know you mentioned the the quote I have in my signature and how powerful of a statement by Will Smith. It’s very true and you will see it. You will come to see that you will only want people in you lives who want to be there. I will never again try to convince someone to be in my life ever again.
So yesterday was tree decorating day in my house. This was the third one without my ExW. The first one was a little tough. The second one was better but a faint hint something was missing. Yesterday it was 100% normal and is our new tradition. Lots of laughter and memories being built. My daughter and I went out and bought some new stuff for the house.
You won’t feel this way forever Scotty B. You will think back and be proud that you did everything in your power to keep your family together. You will also start to see your W for the person she has become and my guess is that as you distance yourself you will realize she’s not the amazing person you married anymore.
I'm a bit bored today. I have plans at 6:30p that I'm looking forward to. Its a beautiful day out and I'm trying to go through work emails but I'm not getting any of them done.
I'm home alone and its real quiet. I'm reflecting on some of the things LH wrote. Specifically the idea that really this is all about having something going on that I can't control and that I'm dealing with that. I don't know, this is confusing.
I read through a lot of my notes from the past 10 years that I wrote and that she wrote. It makes me a little crazy but I feel like it also helps me process things.
The idea that I’m actually struggling with the loss of control - that’s my issue - as opposed to the idea that I love my wife, who I’m losing.
Regardless I had a great night out with my cousin. It was a great distraction. Hope tomorrow goes well, I get the kids back Monday. I’m also hoping it gets cold enough to start skiing, that would be awesome. All and all, considering this was my first full day at home alone, I’d rank it a success. Scale from one to ten, a solid 8.
We men are fixers. So when we see our W broken we get out the tool kit. But you can't fix her no matter how much you love her. That loss of control is difficult, but once you reach acceptance it gets a lot easier. Work on letting go completely. And remember, true love is wanting her to be happy even if it means being away from you. (I find most LBSs love the idea of being a couple more than really loving their spouse.)
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I’m glad you had a great night with your cousin. Again, I think you will find that everything is not as bad as you imagined it.
Steve is right that if you truly love someone you want them to be happy not matter what. True romantic love only works when it’s reciprocated. She’s not there right now. Doesn’t mean she won’t be there again someday. Nobody knows what the future holds Scotty B you just have to keep moving forward.
Heading out tonight to a steak house with a friend. Get the kids back tomorrow. CleAned our the kitchen of all the food I didn’t want, and the fridge. Went to the store and restocked. I dropped off Tupperware, a coat, and some other BS. I was just going to leave it on the porch but my daughter wanted to see me. Gave her a big hug and left.
Now I’m heading to the gym. Might clean up he lawn when I get home or work. The first time I got a stretch of five days without the kids is not until 12/9. That will be hard.
Hope you enjoyed dinner tonight - it's hard to beat a well cooked steak and a good bottle of red wine!
Although like you I never wanted to be in this position, I've also appreciated the freedom of clearing out the unwanted things around the house. It's nice making the place your own.
It's going to be tough to be without the kids for a prolonged period. My recommendation is to make a list of things to do around the house and make some plans with friends in advance, so you can stay busy and productive.
Me:39 Ex-W:37 M:7 T: 9 S:6 D:3 BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20 OM1 affair ends: May '20 W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20 W files for D: Jul20 OM2 confirmed: 9/2020 Divorced: May '21
I was raised to do the right thing, forgive and move on. I was married to her for 14 years and dated for 6 before that. Seems like the right thing to do; not to get me something or anything like that but because it’s the right thing to do.
I was married for 12 and dated for 6. We have 3 kids. My youngest was 5. She is now 19.
Originally Posted by LH19
I am really only here to try to help people understand what’s really going on based on years of being here and research that I have done.
Same here.
Bomb drop and Divorce Remedy were my foundation for personal growth. That was over ten years ago. I am still committed to it.
Originally Posted by ScottB
So today is thanksgiving. Do i continue with the no contact or do i at least reach out with a happy thanksgiving. She’s alone today as far as I know. I figure a happy thanksgiving text would be nice. Thoughts?
You treat her like you would treat one of the kids teachers. Do you send text messages wishing the teachers "Happy thanksgiving?"
Listen, You have a lot of work to do on you. You have to challenge everything you believe. You have to make different choices to get different results.
Your W has lost her attraction for you. You may be able to seduce her back. You will have to completely reinvent yourself to even have a chance of this happening.
The way you behave and the way you interact with her will change her perception of you. Time and space will help.
Start going down some rabbit holes on ways to increase your understanding of attraction and seduction. One example: "Entrepreneurs in Cars". There are many others. I have been down the PUA rabbit hole. Some good attraction skills in there, but you have to wade through a bunch of unethical BS to find the gems. But if you see what is working and why, you gain insight into changing your behavior for the better.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
