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#2907862 11/07/20 06:52 PM
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DejaVu6 Offline OP
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Link to last thread: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2902442&page=10

Thought I should start a new thread as I had reached 10 pages.

Got back from my visit with TDH late Tuesday night. Had a great time. The weather was beautiful. TDH and I wandered around his community and did some Christmas shopping. He’s like a lot of men I know and tends to do his shopping on December 24th so this was a new experience for him. I met both kids and his ex. We had planned to spend time with his S11 (which we did and it went well) but my meeting his ex and daughter was quite by accident as we ran into them at a shopping centre. She was outwardly friendly. His D9 seemed excited to meet me. TDH said she had been mad when she found out her brother was meeting me that night and not her so she was happy we ran into them. I couldn’t help but notice that TDH seemed happy about it too. We were all wearing masks but eyes are pretty easy to read. She looked a bit surprised whereas he looked a little pleased with himself. I get it. Nothing like finding happiness after being devastated by a cheating spouse - especially when their Plan A didn’t work out the way they wanted. I think he felt a bit vindicated. Later on that evening, she passive aggressively changed the plans. Originally she was going to drop S11 off but we ended up having to go pick him up. I didn’t mind but TDH thought it was in reaction to her meeting me because these were plans they had made the day before and she had no real reason to change them. When we went to get him, I also met his two nephews (adorable little blond boys dressed up in the cutest costumes) and his ex’s sister who was quite friendly.

Had an “incident” with XH. Got a text from him on Monday saying he was about to have a talk with D12 about her rude behaviour at the diner table and that I would probably hear about it. Just after reading this, I got a text from D12’s friend’s dad who asked if I had a couple of minutes. He said he had intercepted a disturbing text from D12 to his daughter that he thought I should know about. She had texted her friend that her dad had grabbed her head at the dinner table and forced her to look at OW and that he hadn’t warned her and she was “a bit scared”. So..I texted XH and told him that I had received a disturbing text about him and D12 and that we needed to talk face-to-face when I got back. Shortly after, my phone rang and it was him. First time in almost two years that we have talked on the phone...texted, yes, but never a phone call. Anyway...we talked about it. He said that I had to know he wouldn’t hurt our kids. I, of course, said that I didn’t KNOW anything about him anymore and that I didn’t think he would based on the 13 years we were together BUT he also lied to me for years so I really have no idea. And that wasn’t me being difficult, it’s just the reality. He was pretty upset but also reasonable. The bottom line is that he can’t put his hands on our kids if he is angry...no exceptions. I also FaceTimed D12 and she was okay. She said she and her dad worked it out. Her dad told me that she said I “hit her all the time” so we clarified what is a tap on the leg to get her attention or on the shoulder out of jest and what is actually hitting/abusing someone and how people would interpret her saying that I hit her. She looked a little shocked...lol. Anyway...suffice it to say she won’t be saying that anymore. I then FaceTimed S12 who witnessed the “incident’ and he told me that D12 was being really rude and had been treating everyone like crap for weeks and they were just sick of it. Sound familiar Ginger?? He didn’t think she was hurt...just surprised. S12 is super sensitive so I know if he thought his sister was being abused in any way, he would tell me. D12 is back home and seems like her normal cheerful self (with the odd moody period) so hopefully this whole thing is behind us and lessons have been learned.

Got a text from first XH last night. It said I had been on his mind and he just wanted to see how I was doing. He has been checking in with me fairly regularly since XH and I split. I’m trying not to read anything into it but it is odd...after all these years. We’ve always held each other in high regard but this seems a bit different. I get the impression that if I told him I wanted to try again, he’d be all for it. He’s a great guy but I have no romantic feelings for him whatsoever so it would never happen. That was a different time...a different life...a different me. There is no going back. I feel bad for him though. His life hasn’t gotten better since we split. He remarried and has been separated from her for at least ten years. She won’t give him a divorce and he doesn’t have the money or energy to force one. She has the house and he pays her so much every month that he can’t afford a place of his own so he lives with his parents. His job doesn’t pay a whole lot and he doesn’t have benefits so no pension other than what the government gives out. And no savings either. He’s 55 so doesn’t have a lot of time to work with. Eventually I think they will sell their house. Hopefully he will get his 50% of the equity but she may try to find a way to screw him out of it and he isn’t the type to put up a big fight.

Also a hiccup with TDH this weekend. Nothing dramatic...just something I have to think about. TDH and I have the same values when it comes to relationships and family. He’s incredibly loyal, honest, loving, thoughtful, etc.... all the things I want in a partner. However...we see things very differently when it comes to politics and world issues. I am not a political person by any means so this doesn’t come up very often. But it comes up a lot more these days given the climate we are living in currently so I am aware that it seems like a bigger deal now than it normally would. I wouldn’t say TDH is a political person either...it is more that he is almost apolitical in that he thinks all politicians are corrupt and is a couple steps away from being a conspiracy theorist - one is just as bad as the other. I have more faith in humanity than that and I do think that some are better than others. I think Donald Trump is dangerous whereas he thinks he is entertaining. The one thing I have to admire about him though is that when these things do come up, he’s totally calm and it doesn’t bother him whereas I get pretty irritated. He doesn’t get why. He says he accepts that I believe what I believe and he thinks I should do the same. For the most part I do but there are just a couple things that make me shake my head because they are so out there. I also know that my family would be in the same boat as me and he has already had a run in over with with my BIL who is the smartest person I know. TDH said he learned his lesson in that regard (BIL can intellectually run circles around most people - he has an amazing memory for facts and he NEVER loses an argument) and I shouldn’t worry about it because he knows how to hold his tongue. He also says he worked it out with BIL the next day and apologized because he didn’t realize how strongly BIL felt about what they were talking about. So the question is... can you have a long term relationship with someone who has the same values as you but has some (not all) different beliefs? XH and I had the same beliefs but very different values and look where that went. And everything else with TDH is soooo good so on the odd occasion this comes up, it seems really stupid that it bothers me. IDK.

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It would be a dealbreaker for me, for a couple of reasons. 1) I couldn’t be with somebody so blind to the obvious racism, misogyny and homophobia ( he passed a rule that doctors can refuse to treat my trans son). To me that speaks to a lack of empathy and loving kindness - sure, it’s easy to be kind and loving to family and friends that look like you, but the real test of character is how you feel about “the other” and people less fortunate than yourself.

2) Someone who is not intellectually astute enough to fact check information they get on the internet would simply not be a match for me.

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Good Morning DV

Originally Posted by DejaVu6
He says he accepts that I believe what I believe and he thinks I should do the same.

That is a pretty solid place to be. Accepting that others can be different from you. And that that is ok.

Originally Posted by DejaVu6
For the most part I do but there are just a couple things that make me shake my head because they are so out there.

A rather judgemental viewpoint, which is the norm for present day society.

My musing on forgiveness touched upon this, the continual stirring of the pot by media, commercials, friends, family, everything. Keeping people on edge and off balance. It feeds our ego’s need to be right.

There are hot-button topics that people react to. React not respond - important different. Politics and religion to name a couple. Many many friendships and relationships have been destroyed in arguments over hot-button topics. I know quite a few people who have taken their anger and myopic view/belief to their grave. Years and years of unforgiving hatred towards someone who has a different view/belief. And why? (Well because their wrong! Lol)

Right and wrong is a matter of view point. In your query, it’s the view of Donald Trump that is contentious. It’s such a polarizing topic - politics. And it doesn’t need to be. However, that is exactly where “they” want you to be. Each side is so entrenched in their own views, they are quite unable to see beyond them.

I don’t know TDH, so I would not call him blind. For to me it doesn’t sound like TDH is blind; it sounds like he is rather open-minded. The accusation of him lacking empathy and kindness falls right back upon the accuser who cannot see the other side’s views. One is vulnerable when empathizing, and vulnerable is not a position we take when entrenched within our own beliefs.

A person’s test of character is not limited to how we deal with just the “the others” and people less fortunate. How we deal with all people, especially those with a different view/belief, is the true test.

The US politics is such a battle ground. That phrase, battleground, is use often, and it whips up the very emotional irrational reactions I am speaking about. Donald Trump didn’t pass a rule that refuses treatment - it takes congress to pass rules. It is a democracy not a dictatorship. The entire house passes the rules and law, not just one man (or woman). Contrary to what the media feeds our egos. The entire elected legislative assembly is responsible.

However, to your question at hand.

Originally Posted by DejaVu6
can you have a long term relationship with someone who has the same values as you but has some (not all) different beliefs?

The answer - it depends.

And, it depends upon you.

“...make me shake my head because they are so out there.” Approximately half of the population sees it one way and half the other. Each jumps upon their soapbox and screams that they are right. Are 250 million (plus the countless others across the globe) really “so out there” ?

In the end you can control only you.

For the most part politics comes up only every four years. Other than that, life just goes along. Seriously, look at your life. Fact checking is an excellent idea, yet difficult because google-able facts are filtered. Looking at your own life, like a scientist would, is as far as you need to go. Seek actual verifiable results. How did things go? Was I employed? Did I have enough? Was I happy? Whatever metric you want to use. Find your own answers - not what you’re told your answers are.

In the end you can control only you.

Are your beliefs really that different? Do you believe in democracy? The right for others to have choice? To have different views?

Democracy is an excellent belief. Yes, at times “our” side will not “win”. Yet, democracy wins. The will of the people. And for someone who believes and has faith in humanity, that should be a very good thing.

I suppose I could summarize as don’t make mountains out of mole hills.

It’s ok that the different view point bothers you. I guess it comes down to how entrenched you are. Personally, I believe you are wise and can see your ego affecting you.

Feelings are fleeting. Beliefs are slow to change.

Encourage and reinforce your beliefs that are beyond the petty partisanship views, for those don’t really serve you. You and TDH are great together. Is the rare not seeing eye to eye really a dealbreaker? It will be if you make it so.

It’s a mole hill, treat it as such.

D


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Originally Posted by DejaVu6
I think Donald Trump is dangerous whereas he thinks he is entertaining. The one thing I have to admire about him though is that when these things do come up, he’s totally calm and it doesn’t bother him whereas I get pretty irritated. He doesn’t get why. He says he accepts that I believe what I believe and he thinks I should do the same. For the most part I do but there are just a couple things that make me shake my head because they are so out there. I also know that my family would be in the same boat as me and he has already had a run in over with with my BIL who is the smartest person I know. TDH said he learned his lesson in that regard (BIL can intellectually run circles around most people - he has an amazing memory for facts and he NEVER loses an argument) and I shouldn’t worry about it because he knows how to hold his tongue. He also says he worked it out with BIL the next day and apologized because he didn’t realize how strongly BIL felt about what they were talking about. So the question is... can you have a long term relationship with someone who has the same values as you but has some (not all) different beliefs? XH and I had the same beliefs but very different values and look where that went. And everything else with TDH is soooo good so on the odd occasion this comes up, it seems really stupid that it bothers me. IDK.
This is a tricky thing to navigate. It comes to respect. Do each of you respect the other's different opinions. Take a look at the VP elect. A Baptist married to a Jew.

I think you nailed with the comment on values. How do you each treat and think about the disadvantaged for example.

It's not stupid that it bothers you. Beliefs are the core on which personalities are built - they define who you are.


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But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
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DejaVu6 Offline OP
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Thanks for your responses.

KML...That’s the weird part... he doesn’t agree with anything DT says.... he can’t stand him. But he thinks that everyone else in his position is just as bad...just less vocal about who they are at their core. I have more faith than that and on the odd occasion this comes up, it’s what bothers me the most.

D - I knew if there was anyone who could see the middle ground in this, it would be you. What you said about our egos needing to be right is something I’ve thought a lot about. Fact checking is so difficult these days. I believe in science and reputable journals and reputable journalists. TDH questions how I know they are reputable and at the end of the day, I can’t really say exactly HOW I know it except that I went to university for years and learned to think critically. I also know when someone is talking out of their a$$ and praying on people’s fears and vulnerabilities and promoting hate...and it bothers me.

To answer your question... yes, he believes in democracy. He believes in treating others fairly. He is not racist or misogynistic. He is beyond friendly and respectful to everyone. He has a really open mind in a lot of ways...maybe too open...lol. I don’t know anyone like him so, in a way, I like that he makes me think about my beliefs even though he can’t really change them. You are right. These last few years have really tested people. Ended a lot of friendships. My BIL recently ended a 30-year friendship over it. The guy he no longer talks to was a “different” kind of guy...has an MBA but doesn’t really work...does odd jobs and lives off his parents. But he’s also a real sweetheart if you were to ever meet him. Open, accepting, and kind...but a DT supporter. I guess he and my BIL had one too many arguments about it.

TDH does force me to question my own open-mindedness, no doubt. Because like you said... I do believe in democracy and freedom of choice. TDH always says that you should be able to do what you want to do as long as you aren’t hurting other people. I agree with that to an extent except that I am also a full believer in the concept of the bully, the victim and the bystander.... it is the bystanders who give the bullies their power. Having said that, I also know that if TDH saw someone being bullied or hurt, he would be the first to step in...regardless of that person’s race, gender, etc... So his stance, or lack thereof, on world politics is mystifying to me. Anyway...thank you for taking the time to weigh in. As per usual...you’ve given me a lot to think about. (((HUGS)))

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Andrew... TDH 100% respects me. He even says that he is quite sure I am smarter than him...lol. We do have the same values although he is definitely less politically correct than me when it comes to language but most people are...lol. I am my mother’s daughter and she was as politically correct as they get. smile

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Quote
Donald Trump didn’t pass a rule that refuses treatment - it takes congress to pass rules.


DNJ you are incorrect - he changed the interpretation of a regulation to accomplish this, side stepping congressional approval. Here are excerpts from the nor news account at the time. Google it. “ The Trump administration on Friday finalized a rule that would remove nondiscrimination protections for LGBTQ people when it comes to health care and health insurance.” “ It is one of many rules and regulations put forward by the Trump administration that defines "sex discrimination" as only applying when someone faces discrimination for being female or male, and does not protect people from discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity.”

And I don’t agree that “opinions” on both sides are equally valid. Were people who believed slavery was good on the same moral ground as people who believed it was an abomination?

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NPR not nor

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Originally Posted by kml
And I don’t agree that “opinions” on both sides are equally valid.

Wow!

When one invalidates, devalues, nullifies, or makes worthless the other’s opinion, is the recipe for continued conflict. Deciding whose opinions are valid and whose aren’t, is disrespectful and turns people into second or lower class persons, leading to the very real problems that exist and persist.

I have been called evil for my consumption of meat. My respect for vegans to follow their beliefs and values has not been mutual; having some more strongly entrenched to give me a blast. Their views and opinions are valid, apparently mine are not. People can vilify anyone, when they choose to. Right and wrong, good and evil, are muddied and seldom easy to label with absolutely certainty. I am an evil man to some. Oh well.

At any rate, kml, I do respect your opinion and wisdom. I think and believe you are a good and wise person. You are highly skilled, intelligent, and dispense really good advice. I listen to you closely and appreciate your views.

I do apology DV. Hot-button topics. In my professional life I am required to lead. Imagine carrying two buckets; in one hand is a bucket of gas, and in the other a bucket of water. Problems/conflicts are like fire; spreading and destroying. I choose which bucket to use, and which to influence others to respond with as well. The great majority of problems do not call for more gas, they require utilizing the bucket of water. That has served me well in both my professional and person life. Thank you for appreciating the middle ground on which I stand.

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What I’m saying dnj is that there’s a limit. Slavery is a good example. Homophobia is a good example. If your “opinion” is that other people are less than you and should be discriminated against, that’s a form of evil. Evil and good are not the same.

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