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A parallel-parenting situation is better than an attempted co-parenting situation. If/when things improve, co-parenting will evolve from parallel-parenting. Please do not imagine too many future negatives regarding parallel-parenting. One really cannot predict. It is good to be mindful of possible hurt to the children; be equally mindful of the possible good as well. Remember, the grass is greener where you water it.


I will co-sign this. I've been parallel parenting since the start, 18 months ago, and only now is co-parenting starting to look like a distant possibility, and only because I am feeling ready. If it can be done with a baby/toddler, it can be done with older kids. If anything, your older kids are probably noticing more than they need to see during these co-parenting attempts.

Parallel parenting is not unkind, to H or the kids, it's just one of the many ways that divorce can happen. Your kids being older can understand why you've chosen that route. Mum's rules at mum's house, dad's rules at dad's house. You discuss major parenting matters when they arise and live your separate lives with the kids otherwise. What makes you think it would harm their relationship with their dad? That should be his responsibility to sort out.

In my sitch, we use email for formal matters, text for urgent matters, and a notebook that travels between households for day-to-day matters. The only thing we don't do is communicate in person. It's a sanity-saver.


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Sage, if time could rewind, I would go NC a lot sooner than I did. It’s natural for us to try to make sense of everything, try to understand what the MLCer is going through....but like Gerda said, there is no point talking to the Crazy. When consistent sanity returns, you will know. Don’t get caught up on the occasional niceties he’s showing.

A parallel parenting situation is actually best for the children in this scenario, because the MLCer is so unpredictable (or predicabily crazy) and it’s pretty much impossible to come to a consensus on anything with your H at this point. The children’s relationship with dad is out of your hands. Your H needs to worry about that himself. I totally agree with scout on this. My house my rules. His house his rules. Kids are smart, they will observe and figure out who’s the reliable and responsible parent they can trust.


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Originally Posted by scout12
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A parallel-parenting situation is better than an attempted co-parenting situation. If/when things improve, co-parenting will evolve from parallel-parenting. Please do not imagine too many future negatives regarding parallel-parenting. One really cannot predict. It is good to be mindful of possible hurt to the children; be equally mindful of the possible good as well. Remember, the grass is greener where you water it.


I will co-sign this. I've been parallel parenting since the start, 18 months ago, and only now is co-parenting starting to look like a distant possibility, and only because I am feeling ready. If it can be done with a baby/toddler, it can be done with older kids. If anything, your older kids are probably noticing more than they need to see during these co-parenting attempts.

Parallel parenting is not unkind, to H or the kids, it's just one of the many ways that divorce can happen. Your kids being older can understand why you've chosen that route. Mum's rules at mum's house, dad's rules at dad's house. You discuss major parenting matters when they arise and live your separate lives with the kids otherwise. What makes you think it would harm their relationship with their dad? That should be his responsibility to sort out.

In my sitch, we use email for formal matters, text for urgent matters, and a notebook that travels between households for day-to-day matters. The only thing we don't do is communicate in person. It's a sanity-saver.

I 100% agree with Scout. Co-parenting is over rated IMO. You talk about medical or school issues via text or phone call.

Sage I think you have to make a decision and stay consistent with it because your actions are likely confusing to your STBXH. I think every time he's nice or asks questions you get your hopes up and loosen your boundaries only to get reality thrown your way again. Then you want to tighten the boundaries again. Can you see why this is confusing to him?

When you moved over to the MLC forum I was concerned that you were doing it to hold on longer. I think it's time to let go and move on with your own life.

Take care Sage.

LH19 #2911816 01/04/21 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by LH19
When you moved over to the MLC forum I was concerned that you were doing it to hold on longer. I think it's time to let go and move on with your own life.


Just wanted to chime in here because I know that when my heart was RAW, this kinda comment would kill me and would also propel me into not visiting the boards anymore.

Also MLC is LOOOOONG. It takes forever. You are a baby LBSer in terms of MLC. You might want to keep coming here off and on for years just to have kind voices who understand the insanity. Maybe one day your H will wake up and you'll want to talk about that too, whether you "moved on" or not.

In short, I agree about the boundaries but not about letting go and moving on. It's just not possible to get there because someone tells you to. Maybe you want to stand for your marriage and NOT move on. That's your choice and it's a beautiful choice! You do not need the pressure of trying to move on and feeling bad about yourself because you can't or don't want to. You just need to figure out some boundaries that will give you some peace and keep the MLC monster outside the back door and not at the kitchen table. You don't need to know what is going to happen or anything else. You just need to put one foot out in front of you and then the next one. Right now you want to figure out how to get the boundaries you need to parallel parent and have less contact. Take one tiny step per day -- e.g., "This week I will not answer any of H's text except on Fridays." And after you do the step successfully, give Sage a big hug and say, "Well done! This is dang hard and I did that!"

Last edited by Gerda; 01/04/21 07:06 PM.

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Hello my sweet Sage,
There's not much here to be said that hasn't already been said. I only have a few things to add.

First and foremost being you are not responsible for how another person feels about you or themselves. Your H's words and actions speak volumes about who he is and say nothing about who you are. MLC or not that's a universal truth and you know this. It is not your job to make H feel better, do better, be better, or whatever else he's trying to dump on you as your responsibility. Only he is responsible for his actions, reactions, and interactions.

H asking what you need I don't believe was a ruse. But that's my personal opinion. My exH and my H, when he was in the worst of this, would peek out and I could see who they used to be. It may last a day, an hour, a minute, a split second and then it's gone. He may have truly wanted to know what you needed when those words came out of his mouth, but that doesn't mean he was able to care or process what the answer was. And that's what you need to try to remember. Even if you get glimpses of who he was he isn't that man any more and it's best for you if you don't open yourself up to a person who isn't capable of taking care with your thoughts and feelings.

Friendly not friends is very, very hard when you still love that person, but the best way I was able to manage it was self preservation. I know that that is how I've been conditioned. self preservation above all else. I know that will be very hard for some one as empathetic and serving as you are. But this is a time in your life where radical self love means you choose what will keep your heart, mind and soul safe above all else. No matter who it hurts. As long as your children are not hurt by you in the process keep that at your forefront at all times.

I have gone between parallel parenting and co-parenting with exH over the last 18 years. We co-parent when he's capable. We parallel parent when he's not. H and his ex have parallel parented since they split D16 was around 3 when that happened. Co-parenting is best case scenario, but that doesn't mean it's possible. And you can't successfully co-parent with a parent who isn't in their right mind. Mental illness, AODA issues, crisis. What ever it is, it can't be done, and as long as you are willing to come together when things are incredibly important than that's all that matters. And as far as what's important, that something I'm going to need you to sit with an revise. I know one of the kiddos was having a hard time transitioning from house to house and you deemed that as important and wanted H to get on board. Honey, that wasn't important enough to engage with a person who is incapable of empathy. That was a matter you and kiddo should've talked out together. You will not be able to count on H to be receptive and helpful with the kids 100% of the time. If it isn't a major medical, educational, or mental health decision you are going to have to work most of this out on your own. You can't co-parent with a person who isn't capable. And every time you try to involve H and he doesn't carry his fair share, or gives you a non-answer, or a completely unreasonable solution he will find away to turn it into you being overbearing, or manipulative, or crazy, or what ever he wants to pin on you that week. You can't give him opportunities to pin you down.

Sage, this game is hard for you because it's game you've never had to play before. But you will have to play it if you want to survive a divorce and parenting with this man for years to come. It's a really hard thing to come to terms with. It's a really painful thing to watch someone you loved so much become a complete stranger. But it does get easier. It does become familiar. It does become second hand. It's like a very, very long game of poker. You can't tip your hand. It's best if you play close to the vest, and assume that the other player is almost always bluffing.

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At this point, standing and moving on look exactly the same. Actions aren’t any different . Standing basically means not dating anyone else or filing for divorce. Both involve letting go and both involve moving on. Moving on doesn’t necessarily mean dating. It means you live your life the way that benefits you and your children . So no matter which you chose to do, both look the same .

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Gerda, you hit the nail on the head again with your wisdom. Don't engage with crazy (loved the Ophelia reference).

DnJ, you are helping me see the difference between friends and friendly, among your other sage advice.

Scout and Wooba, thanks for expanding on the parallel parenting discussion. Things can start out as one path and morph in the future. But for now, I need to protect myself above all else. I am less afraid of parallel parenting the more I read your perspectives and experiences.

LH, you are right on all your points. My actions ARE confusing for H, although it took you saying that for me to really understand it, so thank you. I need to get consistent in my actions for ME. As a side effect, it may clear up that confusion for H.

And I also agree with your comments about moving to MLC forum. I do believe H is going through an MLC and the perspective from this side helps me understand the 'script' coming from him-- and externalize it so that *I* can heal. I deeply admire long-term standers on this forum, but I know in my heart that I will move on before too long.

WF, your advice as per usual, is spot on. Your experience with parallel parenting, self-preservation, not being responsible for someone else's feelings, friendly not friends (and how hard that is when you love someone) just hit all the right buttons at this moment.

Ginger, yes! I can 'stand' for the time being, but I know if the D goes through I will move on and date. And that in the meantime, they both look the same anyway.

-----

I am moving to a place where self-love is more important than love for or from H. Right now, H is not here to save me, protect me or love me in the way I want to be loved. Only I can save myself and I can't save myself when I am trying to save others.

I am also coming to terms that not only do I not want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me, but I also don't want to even be around anyone who doesn't desire my company or treat me with basic respect, kindness and regard. I have enough healing and growing to do at the moment to be swept up in the tornado of someone else's projections.

I read some super old posts here by Robx and Gucci Loafer, who took a fairly hard-line approach towards their WAS and dropping the rope. Although not all the advice resonates with me and my situation, it did help me to define my need to move on emotionally and has helped me begin to craft my own roadmap towards truly dropping the rope. If you're interested in reading the threads, this one was particularly helpful for me:

https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2035926&page=1

I have taken some small steps towards reclaiming my sense of sanity. I am learning more about parallel parenting and am warming to that approach. It has been about a week so far and honestly it is better than I thought it would be.

I am examining my 'triggers' and how they inform my actions. For example, my house is more messy than it has been in a long time. I don't really care (it's clean enough to be healthy and dirty enough to be happy!) my children are creative and active and they don't care, I was doing it to absolve myself of my H's mean comment about me being messy, which he recently reiterated and it kind of made me snap inside. Letting go of caring what he thinks around this is a big step for me.

Instead of keeping a perfectly clean house, I have gone on walks with friends, spent an hour each night playing games with the kids and prioritized getting really good sleep each night (going to bed with the kids rather than staying up and cleaning once they go to bed).

Thanks for being my sounding boards, dear friends!

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I am also coming to terms that not only do I not want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me, but I also don't want to even be around anyone who doesn't desire my company or treat me with basic respect, kindness and regard. I have enough healing and growing to do at the moment to be swept up in the tornado of someone else's projections.


Bingo!

Also - re: the housecleaning: one of my ex's complaints about me was that I wasn't a tidy enough housekeeper (actually the best thing we ever did for our marriage was get a cleaning lady to come in once every two weeks). But recently I digitized all our home movies from when the kids were little, and you know what? Our house looks awesome in every one of them! Almost like a beach casual house out of apartment therapy or something. Uncluttered, no dust bunnies, pretty darn clean for a house with three kids and a German Shepherd who shed a lot!

Teach the kids to clean with you once a week for your OWN sake (and theirs), but let go of your H's negativity around it.

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Originally Posted by Sage4
LH, you are right on all your points. My actions ARE confusing for H, although it took you saying that for me to really understand it, so thank you. I need to get consistent in my actions for ME. As a side effect, it may clear up that confusion for H.

And I also agree with your comments about moving to MLC forum. I do believe H is going through an MLC and the perspective from this side helps me understand the 'script' coming from him-- and externalize it so that *I* can heal. I deeply admire long-term standers on this forum, but I know in my heart that I will move on before too long.


I am glad that my comments helped you to understand the dynamic.

I read once in a book that people like to diagnose people that break up with them with depression, MLC, etc. so they have an excuse to continue to love someone who hurt them so bad. After all they are full grown adults who know the difference between right and wrong. They CHOOSE to do what they do knowing they are hurting many people involved.

Imagine being in court and the lawyer tried to use the MLC defense. Sorry defendant you are guilty as charged.

Again this doesn't mean you will never get back together again. It just means you are moving forward with your life.

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Dear Sage,

Yesterday evening I scrolled a little bit on my phone and came across the following. I guess this is how we all need to feel at some point. Not immediately, time will tell...

When I think about him and me and what happened between us, I get pretty sad at first.
Or is it empty?

Not just because of what he did but because of what I let happen and to whom I let myself fade.

I stopped being who I was and too often forgot to stand up for myself.

I wanted him to be right and the kids of course, but where was I in all that story ?!

I lost bits of myself, I put them away to keep what was there.

My intuition was the first thing I put in a box and aimed high in a closet, then my internal compass, also somewhere in a box, and finally my common sense.

That was somewhere in the non-existent basement.

My mistake, of course, not his.

Of course he never asked me to do that, but he never asked me to take the boxes back out of the cupboard.

And in the end it all turned out not to be enough to save it. Or to save him. Or the family.

But I do know that my self-love and self-esteem were stronger than what was in the closets and basement.

I felt that forgiving myself for what I had failed myself and where I went wrong were crucial to moving forward.

Of course I also had to forgive him but the love for myself was fortunately greater to continue with a high head and a broken heart.

And where my thoughts of us first make me sad, then they make me powerful and happy.

It taught me to regain full access to myself, every millimeter of myself is my property again.

Ultimately, we only have to live with ourselves.

To learn to live.

Or to survive, if things go against the grain.

But don't let anyone take your self-love or self-esteem away from you. Own it. Claim it.

Afterwards you will say to yourself: how did I allow that? How did I allow that?

No one is so important that you have to sell yourself short.

So, be aware if you see yourself putting things in the closet.

It is not worth it.

You are worth more.

For all the love in the world, no one is worth short of yourself.
❤️


Me(45)EXH(44)
M:15 T:18, S19, S16 & S16
04/19-02/20 ILYB & OW1
12/20-08/22 OW2 (+pregnant-his child)
03/22-Divorce official
06/22-08/23 Reconnecting
09/23-possible back with OW2
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