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I would recommend you have a consultation on your own with an attorney. Just to find out what are your rights, and what is reasonable to expect. All too often these “let’s work it out ourselves” situations result in the woman getting shafted more often than not.

Then ask for a little bit more than you’re entitled to, so you have some room to negotiate.

If you’re in the US and have been married less than ten years, consider waiting until it’s been ten years - there are potential Social Security advantages.

Meanwhile collect all the financial records you can, including tax returns, info on any pensions or retirement funds he has, etc.

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Hey Sage,

My exH and I were able to work things out without an intermediary but I was the WAW that left and I took hardly anything. I was very ready to walk away with out a lot that was due to me just to be done. I had I held out a little longer before filing we would've made it to 10 years but it wasn't worth it to me. Like at all. I'm definitely with Own. If you can do this without 2 lawyers and a judge, it's best. I know there's a huge group of folks on here who truly believe that you should be looking out for #1 and get all you can, but as I was with H #1 I was ready to be with H #2 I was more interested in being done and having my bases cover than getting what I "deserved." I will say that I had an attorney behind me in both cases, just in case. A lot can be done if you're willing to let go and let god, but you can't trust that your unbalanced STBXH will do the same. I was separated for a year from exH before I filed he had a lot of time to reflect. The other thing I totally agree with Own is work out custody, placement, visitation first. Everything else is just confetti after that. Don't let him use those kids as bargaining chips.

xoxoxo

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Dear Sage—just popping in for a moment to say I am thinking of you and am so sorry for the loss of your dear pup. I am glad H was able to share the grief with you and say goodbye—maybe this is a small comfort. These pets are family and also witness the changes in our lives. They share so much love with us. I have a really hard time imagining ever parting with our two cats, who came into our lives on our first anniversary. The director at my new job was talking about losing her first dog years ago—the first dog that was really hers and saw her through many firsts in her life. She said when the dog died she thought she would be devastated, but she was surprised to find she felt an overwhelming sense of gratitude for the years she shared with her. Every time she would open the door to her house, she would think of the dog with love and gratitude. (I think maybe there is part of me that wants to apply this to M to, but not at the moment—that wasn’t where I meant to go...). I’m tearing up just thinking of it. Anyway, sending you all the hugs and best memories of your pup and feelings of gratitude for the time you had together.


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Sage, do you think he would do mediation? If you are not super knowlegable about your rights and the likely outcome of a D trial, you might get confused if you are directly negotiating with MLCilio.

You could also have a consult with an organization that helps women navigate legal rights. I forgot where you live, if I ever knew it, but in my city there are a bunch of them. I have gotten three great consults over the loooooong years of my D nightmare and they really helped me each time with a trajectory I needed to figure out. One time they set me up with a counseling session and gave me two bags of groceries!

The other thing you can do is post specific questions here. Between the fifty of us, we may know the answer.

You are a strong woman to be able to grieve a little WITH your H about your loyal dogfriend even when that dogfriend was such a symbol of the union that your wasband stomped upon while asking you to watch (as per my previous post!).

From my household of D, S and dog and cat to yours, hugs and empathy.


I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord with courage.
Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
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Just reviewed and remembered you have four young children and a joint business. No way should you be negotiating this with him without legal advice. There’s just far too many things to be considered.

Will one of you buy the other out of the business? Four small children is a lot of child support (and a boatload of childcare expenses if you were to take a job). What about college expenses when the children are older? Is there a family home? Do you have accurate financial records on your business? (Many women have had to get forensic accountants to find where the money is hidden). With four small children, how much of the actual work of the business have you been doing? Does it have resale value?

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Also you said: “ H has completely unrealistic expectations of what a D is going to do to him (us) financially. This really concerns me because we have the potential to D amicably or collaboratively, but the only way he is going to avoid those huge consequences is if I walk away with nothing (totally unrealistic, not going to happen). So I worry that his lack of understanding is going to create huge conflict when he realizes the truth and he will blame it on me and things will get ugly. We have crossed this bridge a few times over the last 6 months where he has an unrealistic idea in his head of how things are going to unfold and then is shocked when they unfold according to common sense consequences. ”

Negotiating with him without the benefit of a lawyer telling him that what he expects is unreasonable and no judge in the land would give him that is unlikely to be helpful. I would have a private consultation with a divorce attorney - without letting your H know about it - and get a clear picture of what you can expect to get.

Also, give us some (general, non-identifying) information on the financials here and we can probably offer some advice. What kind of joint business is this? Is it a joint business because your name is on it for tax purposes or do/did you have a significant hand in building/running it? Does it have resale value? What job skills/qualifications do you have? What could you earn on your own? Does it make a lot of money or is it just barely paying the expenses of a single household and unlikely to cover the expenses of two? Are there assets, like equity in your home or equipment owned by the company? Are there employees? Do I remember correctly that there was something hunky about you being paid a salary even though you did little work as some kind of tax dodge?

Get copies of the business returns and your tax returns, the business accounts, statements on any retirement accounts or pensions, and bring that information with you to your attorneys visit.

Knowledge is power. And if the finances are not going to be enough to support two households, you need to start figuring out how to address that long term.

Most likely he wants to negotiate yourselves so he can cheat you out of what is rightfully yours. Find out your rights and where the money is.

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Also don’t forget life insurance in him sufficient to cover child support until the kids are grown and spousal support.

kml #2913527 01/26/21 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by kml
Also don’t forget life insurance in him sufficient to cover child support until the kids are grown and spousal support.
My ex-wife has a policy on me with her as the irrevocable beneficiary more than sufficient to cover the support payments if I get bumped off. I was annoyed at the "irrevocable" part but that seems to be standard stuff and also at the fact that I have to pay for the policy.


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Everything that KML said! And if you don't believe her, read my threads. I am the poster child for all those things, including the shared business, and look what happened to me and is still happening! And I HAD lawyers but they were terrible, and my judge is terrible, so you have to be prepared to understand everything you are entitled to, even if it's to know what you are secretly willing to give up for the sake of peace. Getting any interim agreement in place is good because then you can establish status quo and ask to keep it til the kids are in college.

My dad also told me, based on his D from my MLC mom, that he got very good advice from his lawyer at the time. Cut all ties, leave nothing open. For my dad that meant giving her a credit for alimony and child support on her share of the house, so that after their D, they had no cause to have any financial discussion ever again.

Last edited by Gerda; 01/26/21 03:26 PM.

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Conversely, I had to pay for the policy on my ex-husband (which, in a way, was good so that there would be no risk of him letting the payments lapse) and he made me reduce our existing policy by half (so I couldn’t “profit” from his untimely death lol). I seriously think he was projecting - if it had crossed his mind to bump me off to get out of paying alimony, maybe he thought it would cross my mind to bump him off for the insurance money???

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