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Re: Where's the banana [Re: AndrewP] #2906078
10/18/20 04:19 PM
10/18/20 04:19 PM
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bttrfly Offline
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I will grant you that.


M 20+ T25+
S 15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
H moved out 4/24/15
D Final 12/23/16
When God gives you a new beginning don't repeat the same old mistakes. It's 2020, anything could happen; eat dessert first!!!!
Re: Where's the banana [Re: kml] #2906079
10/18/20 04:23 PM
10/18/20 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by kml
(Btw Don I think the fact that Andrew is considering these things is proof that heís digesting what weíve been telling him.

I 100% think Andrew is digesting and agreeing with most of what we say. That's not my point. He agrees. He knows this is not a healthy R and if somehow a magic wand could just erase it all and no one would get hurt, he'd be fine with ending it. However, there is no such magic wand. My point is we here in DB land are often still focusing on showing how S is not a good fit and has lots of flaws where I think the focus needs to move on from that to, how can we help Andrew get out of this situation and just as importantly, not repeat it. He's not arguing with us - he agrees so he's clearly digesting most of it. Now, how can it be solved?

Originally Posted by kml
As I recall you arenít exactly Johnny on the spot with taking advice either wink We all have to take things in on our own timetable.

LOL, not at all sure what this refers to as I've not asked for nor received any advice in a long, long time and even then it was pretty casual stuff - other than perhaps with my seperation, gulp, 15 years ago now? I've never been in a toxic situation like this and can assure you someone like S would never get more than a single date out of me - if that would even happen as I'm extremely picky on the front end and disqualify most of them before we even get on a date. With me, I often don't agree with the advice given - which is why I don't follow it. Again, I get the strong feeling, Andrew agrees with us. He just can't bring himself to consistently act on it and/or perhaps feel down to his bones that he truly does deserve more than what he is getting and it's not his job to save S and her family from her own dysfunctional craziness.

I think Andrew is firmly on the road and headed in the right direction. We just now need to figure out how to get more gas in his tank to get him across the finish line.


DonH
Midwest
Me 56
WAW-EXW 55
Met 11/95 / Married 5/00
Bomb 6/20/05 / She Filed on 6/2/06 / Divorced on 10/9/06
4 who'd qualify as GF since D & dated about 25 women since D
Re: Where's the banana [Re: AndrewP] #2906080
10/18/20 04:25 PM
10/18/20 04:25 PM
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a free mousepad for an edit button, sigh ---

I think it's important to note that people are complex - well, most people are complex. I'd like to move this to a place where we can call out the dysfunction for what it is, have (fierce) compassion, but also state clearly that taken off a moral issue, this isn't likely to work as the two principals are fundamentally incompatible.

this might make it easier for Andrew to do what he needs to do and say what he needs to say, by getting rid of any judgment/good vs bad, and just sticking to the facts. he wants to live one way, she another and there's very little room for overlap. plenty of people in relationship can't live together. plenty more find out that the relationship doesn't work when they do live together. cut the losses while the damage is still relatively minor.

does this make sense?


M 20+ T25+
S 15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
H moved out 4/24/15
D Final 12/23/16
When God gives you a new beginning don't repeat the same old mistakes. It's 2020, anything could happen; eat dessert first!!!!
Re: Where's the banana [Re: AndrewP] #2906081
10/18/20 04:29 PM
10/18/20 04:29 PM
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also Don, I wholeheartedly agree that Andrew would benefit greatly for focusing solely on himself and his patterns in relationships. It's not only his way out of this morass but also a way to prevent repeating this in the future.

hope that puts a little more gas in the tank ...


M 20+ T25+
S 15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
H moved out 4/24/15
D Final 12/23/16
When God gives you a new beginning don't repeat the same old mistakes. It's 2020, anything could happen; eat dessert first!!!!
Re: Where's the banana [Re: AndrewP] #2906089
10/18/20 07:47 PM
10/18/20 07:47 PM
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Quote
I did not know a sacrifice you made was your brothers. That is so very sad. Did you mention this before?


I missed this part of the story as well. Please elaborate!

Quote
thoughts about my list and how to proceed in a positive - ie - non confrontational / blaming way in the therapy session would be appreciated.


- Loss of pride in my home
How could you possibly have pride in your home when it's very much disrespected by S and her family?

- Loss of so much that was important to me - family, pets
You gave up your pets and son for S and her clan to move in. I don't know the story with your brothers. Fortunately, your daughter is far enough away to be able to maintain the same relationship you had before S.

- Feeling like the whole burden is on me and "dancing as fast as I can" just to get less than the minimum done
Communication issue. I know you prefer to not "rock the boat" and just do it yourself. You've tried the chore chart, but I think more effort in enforcing the chart from BOTH of you would have helped. I know you're not their father, but you are the man of the house and you should be able to enforce home rules.

- Feeling like my voice isn't heard and doesn't matter
Another communication issue.

- No longer having my own relationship with my own children - S requires to be involved in gifts, cards etc
You don't have to let her be involved in gifts/cards/etc. She can't "require" it. You can do your own thing with your own children. This one is on you - probably due to not wanting to rock the boat again...

- No time for me or my own interests
Well, this is tough when you're taking care of an entire home full of people who don't take responsibility for their roles/things. You need to prioritize yourself and delegate tasks to others. and there needs to be consequences if tasks are incomplete or poorly completed.

- Poorer health and worse diet
Meal planning and making time for exercise would be beneficial.

- Lack of exercise
Exercise/health needs to be a priority. You don't need someone to exercise with you in order for you to take care of yourself.

- Money issues - it was expected that there would be no negative financial impact
Poor assumption on your part... or perhaps communication issue as you don't really know much about S's finances. This should have been ironed out prior to her moving in. But since it wasn't, you 2 need to get on the same page with the budget. It's strange to me that she's over-spending when she is used to not having money.

- Feeling that this is a very "dark" environment. Dirt clutter and actual darkness - S doesn't like bright sunshine
That explains why she never wants to go for a walk and sleeps until mid-day and stays up late in the dark night. Did you know this about her before she moved in?

- The lack of reciprocity - what "does" S bring to the relationship?
Something only YOU can answer... I'm not sure besides chaos and filth.

- Little overlap of time together and loss of most of the day with her being asleep while the world is shining and spinning out there
So what "does" she bring to the relationship?

- Living with a hoarder is hard
Especially one who doesn't think she has a problem with hoarding.

- Dirt, stink, no ownership / being accountable for dealing with stuff - passed on to D26 or boys and picked up by me
Goes back to, what does S bring to the relationship?

- Dramatic decrease in living conditions
This is sad and goes along with the loss of pride.

- Feeling taken for granted in many ways. A good example is when suddenly her entire family started coming every Sunday for me to make them dinner - a tradition they never had.
So why are you in this relationship?? frown

Would you consider staying together if S moves out? I think that's the best chance for your relationship to work out. It's not uncommon for couples to be together for many years and not live together.

Re: Where's the banana [Re: AndrewP] #2906132
Yesterday at 02:02 AM
Yesterday at 02:02 AM
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AndrewP Offline OP
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Policeman at the door this evening. S's father died sometime last night and was found this morning.

I'm calling a time-out. She's doing ok all things considered. The kids, especially S18 are pretty broken up. D26 is here now.

I only met her Dad a few times. Decent widower who was very proud of his neat as a new pin house and told the same 5 stories over and over.


On BD
H52, W50
T27, M26
S21, D23
BD-9-Mar-16
D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18
I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good.
But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Re: Where's the banana [Re: AndrewP] #2906134
Yesterday at 02:25 AM
Yesterday at 02:25 AM
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Oh no! Well at least they all just saw him on Thanksgiving. Thatís a blessing.

Does she have siblings?

Re: Where's the banana [Re: kml] #2906136
Yesterday at 02:47 AM
Yesterday at 02:47 AM
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Originally Posted by kml
Oh no! Well at least they all just saw him on Thanksgiving. Thatís a blessing.

Does she have siblings?
One brother in British Columbia who will be a problem. He's the one who was sent off to foster care. S is the executor but when she called him the demands had already begun. It's going to be difficult. There's a modest estate and I don't think the will is at all clear. I'm staying out of it.

At Thanksgiving S's S22(?) was also called in Australia and so they had a video chat.

D26 has shown up and is largely taking over caring for her Mom and making sure stuff happens. Her usual role. They're planning on going down to the city tomorrow and start dealing with stuff. I expect a "lot" more stuff will be showing up here - presumably once the estate is settled.

I expect that we'll still be doing our couples counseling next week but everything is up in the air right now. The important thing is to ensure that she feels safe during this difficult time.


On BD
H52, W50
T27, M26
S21, D23
BD-9-Mar-16
D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18
I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good.
But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Re: Where's the banana [Re: AndrewP] #2906137
Yesterday at 03:08 AM
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That is very sad news.

(((Hugs)))

Iím sure S and her kids enjoyed Thanksgiving super and visiting with him.

Andrew, S will need some guidance and support over the next while - itís ok to help.

D


Current
Me52 XW49 S23 S22 S19 D18

Oct 8/17-BD, Moves in w/OM, Leaves Kids
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
Dec 9/17-Legal Separation
Oct 3/18-W Files
Apr 6/19-Divorced

I may give up, but not today.
Re: Where's the banana [Re: AndrewP] #2906138
Yesterday at 03:24 AM
Yesterday at 03:24 AM
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And the flip side is - she will hopefully inherit enough that she will be able to afford to move into an apartment.

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