Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 9 of 11 1 2 7 8 9 10 11
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
Oh Hoch, please don't be afraid to post about your mistakes. Don't fear what the board may say, and don't fear you have disappointed anyone here. This is about your life, and if you can't be painfully honest with us......how can we help you?

(((hugs))) You've taken all the responsibility for the breakdown in this MR. You see yourself as a failure, and it's eating you alive. I know you love her, and feel you can't live without her, but this goes beyond loving, IMHO. I mean, this is pure fear I'm seeing in your recent posts. Is it about abandonment issues? Are you a control freak? Are you a perfectionist? What is really at the steering wheel here? Have you read Steve85 link in the blue shaded portion of the first page in newcomers? If not, maybe it would help to calm your anxiety.

My FOO always thought you could work through relationship problems by getting the cards on the table and talking it out. I nearly talked my poor H to death in our early years of M. He doesn't talk, so it usually turned out to be a monologue. It feels natural for us talkers to approach our spouse with concerns. I, too, am a confronter. So, I understand the urge to confront her.

Here's the thing about confrontation. You must have a plan that follows the confrontation. You are seeking an explanation from her. What if the explanation doesn't come, or what if it falls on deaf ears and you get nothing? I think confrontation immediately puts the other person in defense mode. They may counter attack, but it's still a defensive move. Therefore, what will be your next move? See what I mean? If she denies and lies, your confrontation does nothing more than alert her that you are suspicious and she needs to cover her tracks better. It seldom solves the initial problem.

Quote
Just before a zoom meeting about my son’s schooling, my wife opened her laptop and I saw she was looking up apartments. My heart froze. I asked if they were for us to move (we had talked about an even cheaper place), or for her to move out. She said “either or,” and reiterated that “it’s not a decision to be made lightly.”

After the meeting ended, I couldn’t stop myself from saying, “I don’t want you to move out. I want to improve this.” She said she’s “just looking for options, not making decisions.”

I said “it hurts me to see you in pain. I never wanted to see you in pain. I see you going through this and I want to do everything in my power to help you. I still love you, even though you feel like you’re failing. I still believe in you.”

She said, very calmly, “the problem is, I can only ever be a partner, I can never be a wife.” I said “it doesn’t change how much I love you, it doesn’t change how much I believe in you. And I don’t want you out of my life.”


Some women might give their eye teeth to hear their H say what you told your W. However, the W who doesn't soften is the one who has hardened her heart against her H. In that case, his tender caring words have little affect on changing her mind. I know it must be very difficult to understand. I wish I had the ability to explain it better.

Having the relationship talks add a lot of emotional pressure to her, and causes her to resist, resent, and run. It's not you.......it's her. The more you express concern, love, needs, etc., the more she'll pull back. That's the nature of a hard hearted wife. At this point, relationship talks are not your friend.

Quote
You guys, I don’t know what I’m doing. With this pandemic, with this situation. My heart feels like it’s being pulled out of my chest all over again. I don’t know whether to have faith or not. She sure sounded definite. I’m failing at DBing. I’m failing at detaching. I’m failing at not bringing up the R. I feel ashamed to post here because of how much I’m f*ing this up. I’m going backward.


I think the majority of newcomers can't wrap their minds around the concept of DBing. I mean, they read the advice but they just can't shed their old ways of dealing with a spouse. Some of them can't even see how they are pursuing and pressuring. They are afraid and try to control or change the mind of their spouse. Right now, fear is your biggest enemy, Hoch.

I may have a different take on faith/hope. I don't believe in blind faith. There has to be an object of faith. Faith, IMHO, is not holding your breath and praying a situation will go as you desire. For me, faith is a spiritual function, and I don't put faith in other human beings. God is the object of my faith, and I trust Him to have his perfect will for whatever situation I find myself. His will and His timing is perfect. Mine is not. Therefore, things may not go according to what I desired at the time, but that's okay b/c my will and my timing are imperfect. I know He will do what's best, if I'll get out of His way.

There is a difference in hoping for the best outcome, and being paralyzed by what we can't control. Fear can paralyze us to where we can't function. Hope gives us freedom in ways we may not have considered, and a little thing called time. I guess some people do have to give up hope for their M, in order to just move on with their life. That's something the individual has to decide. I don't think anyone around here will judge you. It's your life.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 98
H
Hoch Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
H
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 98
Thank you so much folks. Your kind words keep me afloat.

It’s been two days, and I’ve barely slept. I keep expecting her to tell me she’s moving out, and I keep hugging my kids like it’s that last time. I’m just now starting to relax by a hair, but still terrified. I definitely have deep seated abandonment issues, and it’s pulling me apart.

I need some advice, and this time I’m coming to you WELL ahead of doing anything stupid.

My wife may or not be asexual. My guess - and faith - is that she has a low libido, is traumatized from our rocky relationship and her compulsion to be a people pleaser (which made her capitulate to things she didn’t want) and is in shutdown. She is saying things is black and white terms because she is hurting and our marriage is on the edge.

But the important thing is that she is deeply hurting right now. She may have undiagnosed aspergers, adhd, and I’m starting to suspect, bipolar. She had a cry for help a few years ago where I thought I’d lost her. If she were to move out right now, I would worry for her safety and the safety of my kids in her care.

This is what my therapist suggests: Deescalate and get her help, get her to trust me enough to help her find support for her issues. He suggests I sit her down and say: “W, I see you saying sex is the core schism of our marriage and we are doomed to split, which is why you’re looking for apartments. Instead, let’s commit to not worrying about any of this until S2 is 4. You don’t need to move out, instead I will remove all pressure and we can focus on getting you help and support so you don’t feel so stuck and pressured.”

What do you all think? I told my therapist I would talk it over with my “people” and check it against DB strategy. I don’t know where to deviate from DB with a depressed spouse who is showing substance abuse signs.

Standing by, please advise.

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
Hoch,

Not a good idea. If she wants to leave and you are asking her to stay that is pressure. You have to open the cage door. If she leaves then you have to let her leave. If you are concerned for the safety of your kids then legally find out what you can do. Things typically have to get worse before they can better Hoch. I’m sorry.

Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 9,822
Likes: 226
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 9,822
Likes: 226
Hoch, you need to learn one simple truth that was so important for me to learn in my sitch. No matter her issues. No matter what the underlying causes of her issues are. YOU CANNOT FIX HER.

I always say the LBSs that struggle the most are the ones that do GAL the worst. However, a close second is LBSs that think they can control/fix/find a cure for their WAS. You cannot. And you will bash your skull against a brick wall trying. Focus off of her. You have no control over her. If she is going to move out she is going to move out. If she has underlying issues that she needs to address, she will either address them or she won't.

Also your whole premise is flawed. As LH said, asking her not to move out IS pressure. So "You don’t need to move out, instead I will remove all pressure and we can focus on getting you help and support so you don’t feel so stuck and pressured." is contradictory. Also, you obviously didn't understand her feelings around sexual pressure. It isn't that you are pressuring her for sex, it is that being with you and being in an R with you makes her feel sexual pressure. In simple terms, your mere presence makes her feel sexual pressure.

I know this because my W was the same way. I once, in my beta state, offered (and this was way before she became a WAW/WW) to just agree to never have sex again. I had seen some TV program where couples decided to live sexless lives, and the impression the show gave was that they were flourishing and doing wonderful. I think now looking back on it that it is a pile of crapola. But my goal, like yours, was to remove all sexual pressure from her. (Deep down I thought that might make her feel relaxed enough to where she would actually decide she wanted to have sex, but that was NGS acting up!). She made it clear that wasn't not logical, reasonable, nor logistically possible, and in hindsight she was 100% right. Just being married to me, sleeping in the same bed with me, interacting as couples do dressing and undressing around each other made her feel sexual pressure. So unless you are up for castration, I do not think a mere sentence stating "I will remove all pressure" is going to cut it.

You are still looking for the magic pill that if she swallows will fix everything. Or the magic bullet that you can shoot your sitch with and make everything better. There is no such thing. The way forward is simple: GAL, 180s, detachment. And while simple, i understand it is difficult to focus on and stay on that track. But the better you get at it, removing all focus and attempts to control things, the freer you will feel no matter what your WAW decides.


M(53), W(54),D(19)
M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 98
H
Hoch Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
H
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 98
LH19 and Steve85 -

That’s what I suspected. Thank you for setting me straight. I had t considered that taking off all pressure was a form of pressure.

I once again need to go back to basics.

I’m still working on GAL. It’s very hard in this pandemic w limited funds, so most of my GAL activities have to by necessity be in the house. But I am learning to be as creative as possible within those bounds.

I’m just not getting 180s. I have a list as long as my arm as to what they can be, but I am scrambled as to which of them I should put in place. So far, the 180s I’ve held to are:

* don’t bring up R talks (I’ve f*ed this one up twice in a week)
* be casual and upbeat
* offer to give her breaks as much as possible
* be a more involved dad

Other than that, I’m confused on what I should do. I will go back and re-read the DR book

Steve85 - I’m curious to know more about your sitch, as a lot of the sexless stuff you talk about sounds similar. Do you have a thread I could read, or could you expand on how your sitch went? Especially since it lead to recon. I’m not looking for techniques, or to cherry pick (which I know is dangerous) but simply more info.

Also, I’m considering taking some of our very limited funds and calling the DB coaching line. Can anyone vouch for it against?

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,309
Likes: 283
R
Member
Offline
Member
R
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,309
Likes: 283
Originally Posted by Hoch

Also, I’m considering taking some of our very limited funds and calling the DB coaching line. Can anyone vouch for it against?
It has been along time since I had my coaching, but the feedback I see here says the sessions are worth it. They are professionals and are experts in MWD principles.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,309
Likes: 283
R
Member
Offline
Member
R
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,309
Likes: 283
Originally Posted by Hoch


I’m just not getting 180s. I have a list as long as my arm as to what they can be, but I am scrambled as to which of them I should put in place. So far, the 180s I’ve held to are:

* don’t bring up R talks (I’ve f*ed this one up twice in a week)
* be casual and upbeat
* offer to give her breaks as much as possible
* be a more involved dad

Other than that, I’m confused on what I should do.


Here is a good example of a 180:

If you typically use "You" statements, start making "I" statements.

"You make me so mad!!!" turns into "I am angry that you left the dirty dishes in the sink"


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
Hoch,

If you are limited on funds then I would hold back on a DB coach. You seem to have difficulty following advice and having another hand in the pot may confuse you even more.

I really wish you understood that there is absolutely nothing you can do to fix this right now. I’m afraid you are going to end up tieing yourself in a pretzel. We can feel your anxiety on the board so if we can feel it so can your W.

Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 9,822
Likes: 226
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 9,822
Likes: 226
Hoch, see my thread.

As far as the coach. In my opinion it isn't whether you can afford to, its really can you not afford to try? In other words, scrounge up the money and do it.....it might be what helps turn your sitch around whether your save your marriage or not.


M(53), W(54),D(19)
M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
Quote
“W, I see you saying sex is the core schism of our marriage and we are doomed to split, which is why you’re looking for apartments. Instead, let’s commit to not worrying about any of this until S2 is 4. You don’t need to move out, instead I will remove all pressure and we can focus on getting you help and support so you don’t feel so stuck and pressured.”


Are you ready to go two yrs without sex? The only thing I can agree with the IC is to deescalate the drama & tension. Stop bringing up the subject of sex, for now. Don't approach her about your feelings.

Quote
You don’t need to move out, instead I will remove all pressure and we can focus on getting you help and support so you don’t feel so stuck and pressured.”


Sorry, I know you mean well, but I think she won't respond well to this statement. I could be wrong, but your concern is likely to come across as wanting to get her fixed so you can have sex. Maybe you just need to drop talking about sex for now.

Are you seeing the IC specifically for your marital problems, or are you there for your insecurity issues? Don't you think it would be more beneficial to get help for your abandonment issues, and any other emotional problems you have?

Your emotional state concerns me. You are bouncing all over the place, going from her being asexual to possibly bipolar. You are freaking out, and need to calm down. You can't help anyone until you get control of your own emotions. You are sounding very desperate. I understand you love her and it's killing you to see her in pain. You want to get help for her, but it's hard to get an adult help if they won't cooperate.

You've listed a wide range of mental health possibilities. Does anyone in her immediate family have any of these mental issues?

Quote
She had a cry for help a few years ago where I thought I’d lost her.


What happened? Was she hospitalized? Can you tell us the diagnosis? Is she taking medication?

Quote
I don’t know where to deviate from DB with a depressed spouse who is showing substance abuse signs.


Can you give an example of something particularly to deviate in DBing?

Where is her family? Have they commented on her behavior......or showed concern for her mental health?


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Page 9 of 11 1 2 7 8 9 10 11

Moderated by  Cadet, DnJ, job, Michele Weiner-Davis 

Link Copied to Clipboard