I think you nailed it on the head here. Especially the fact that she's not really sure why but she needed to do it to survive. In the one letter she wrote me, she said she felt like the house was a prison, that she was suffocating while there. That's why she had to walk away.
My XW said the same, in fact she used that same word- "suffocating". Said she felt trapped in the house. Yet later she wanted ME to leave the house! So yeah, by "trapped" she just meant because I was there!
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And ... I guess the hardest part about accepting that is that all that pain, all that discomfort, was because of me. ME. I never thought I was that bad of a guy, in fact amongst all our friends I thought I was the most decent, loyal, loving and supportive of the husbands. WRONG!!!
Is it wrong though? I was a devoted husband and father. Always put my family first. Never so much as hugged another woman that wasn't a family member in our 25 years together. 6 months before BD I found my wife crying in the bedroom. I went to her side and asked if she was OK, through tears she begged me to take care of myself, said she couldn't bear the thought of life without me. Said she wouldn't be able to survive without me, and she feared what would happen to the kids. I reassured her that I felt great and would continue to make sure my health was such that I wouldn't be going anywhere. Just as a side note I've always eaten pretty well and stayed fit and have never been more than maybe 10 pounds overweight in my life, so this was coming out of nowhere. Anyway, 6 months later there I was sitting slack jawed as my loving wife said "I just don't want to be married anymore."
My point is this- some people find themselves here because they treated their spouse poorly. They didn't respect them, didn't show them love, didn't treat them well. But some people find themselves here IN SPITE of having been a really good, or even fantastic spouse. You have to do some soul-searching to decide if you were the former or the latter. And you should by all means use this as a tool to make yourself a better person. But this may have a lot more to do with her going through something than your perceived failings as a husband.
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The most painful part, though, is that she gave the marriage zero chance. There are so many things she could have said -- "Tom, I want to move out and get away. It might be six months before we can talk again, but I ... must ... have ... this ... space." Sure, I would've accepted that. Or, she might have said, "Tom, I'm filing for divorce, but during the process we can perhaps work on things to see if we don't need to sign the final papers in a year." That would have been a bigger shock, but I could've handled that.
If she had said that it might have made you feel better, but it wouldn't have been honest. Sometimes they'll say those things, but it's just to "soften the blow". Her mind is made up for now. It CAN and probably WILL change later, but right now she doesn't think she will ever change her mind.
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She undertook a few bad actions that poisoned the well, also, no doubt at the advice of her aggressive attorney and an angry sister. Took all the money with her. Left the house on BD day with the best car. Collected all the tax refunds. Had the attorney accuse me of stalking, violence, harrassment and more and threaten a restraining order.
Wow that's awful! My XW treated me very poorly after BD (not like that though, would just say mean/ angry things), but at some point she actually approached me and said she had done it on purpose because she thought it would make it easier for me to let go. But she said she could see it was just hurting me worse and in turn made her feel worse, so she wasn't going to do it anymore. WOW the things they say and do. It's just all a ride on the crazy train. But she was good to her word, she continued to be cold/ indifferent after but not mean like she had been.
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But I am made for relationship, I am certain of that.
I thought I was too. I really did. But you are going to discover that dating at our age is MUCH different than when we were younger. You are set in your ways and so will be the women you meet. You may not realize how set in your ways you are until you try to introduce a new love interest into it all. It's not easy!
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So did you ever date? Are you dating now?
Oh yes, I dated quite a bit. I have so many really wild stories, LOL! I started dating about a year after BD which in retrospect wasn't enough time, I should have waited longer, I just wasn't mentally prepared yet. I had little luck meeting women my age because of the above issue about people being set in their ways, plus they just seemed to have a high degree of fear of meeting a stranger. So they would just want to text forever and never commit to meeting. Younger women were much more willing to meet, often the same day we started contact. And younger women were thrilled to have someone be a gentleman around them, dress well and treat them with honor and respect, apparently that's in short supply in younger men these days. I dated some absolutely stunning young ladies. They weren't without their baggage, that's for sure. I eventually started seeing one more seriously. We've been seeing each other for around 5 years, it's kind of a long distance relationship because she's about 1-1/2 hours away and our schedules make it tough to get together. So we only see each other about once a month, but we text a lot. She's much younger, is a partner in a small business and does part-time modeling. She's very sweet, pretty and has a centerfold figure. If you are intelligent, successful, fit and average to good looking you will be surprised at your options out there.
Just make sure you are ready though. If in doubt then give yourself more time. It is REALLY tough getting close to someone after you've programmed yourself to be devoted to one particular person for decades.
Just make sure you are ready though ... It is REALLY tough getting close to someone after you've programmed yourself to be devoted to one particular person for decades.
So just how old are you, AS? I'm late 50s. And for the life of me, I can't imagine marrying, much less dating someone much younger. I don't want to have a household someday filled with young kids or teenagers unless they're my grandchildren.
What I've heard from most people is that there are a LOT of single women between 50 and 65 but most of them are screwed up. Really screwed up. I got hammered here by a few veterans because of a brief relationship I had with a woman my age that began 75 days after BD and lasted about 3-4 months. But I learned one heckuva lot so I don't regret it for a minute, although it most definitely WAS too soon.
Also, and maybe you don't want to be 100% public about it, but I'd appreciate having a one-on-one dialogue with you about dating. What do you think?
We're all screwed up sometimes, but yes Tom without some sort of evidence or context that statement is weird. There's plenty of gals just like you going through tough times, putting in the work to heal, and moving forward. You'll turn all of them away too if you make statements like that.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
I almost replied to the "most people" and "single women between 50 and 65" comment earlier. Weird theory. I know more women aged 45-55 than 55-65, but based on them, strongly disagree.
We're all screwed up sometimes, but yes Tom without some sort of evidence or context that statement is weird. There's plenty of gals just like you going through tough times, putting in the work to heal, and moving forward. You'll turn all of them away too if you make statements like that.
Originally Posted by CWarrior
I almost replied to the "most people" and "single women between 50 and 65" comment earlier. Weird theory. I know more women aged 45-55 than 55-65, but based on them, strongly disagree.
Roger that, I'm really just quoting friends who have been through this ahead of me, who recall the difference between when they were in the 20s and single, and more recently in their 50s. Back in their 20s, they rarely had alarm bells go off, but dating today they see baggage and trouble nearly all the time. I didn't mean to slight women, I have my own baggage, fully on display here! But since I don't date men I'm don't really care if men have baggage too, from a dating perspective.
The comments I've gotten from friends is that a lot of women are either still angry about their marriage or are terribly wounded. Many of them are in severe financial trouble as well. It doesn't take long for it to come out, either. I've already seen that myself, see the first thread if interested.
It's possible that such is the case because these women are all dating too soon, e.g., not following DB rules! That certainly makes sense.
I can understand this. I dated actively from age 16 to 26 and rarely encountered someone who, I would later learn, I should have steered clear of. But the reports from men today at least in my circle are otherwise. And while all the DBers may not have experienced this, we need to understand that most of the world does not follow DB principles! I suppose that's why the divorce rate for second marriages is 60-70% per Steve85. Hopefully that number is far lower for DBers.
It's possible that such is the case because these women are all dating too soon, e.g., not following DB rules! That certainly makes sense. And while all the DBers may not have experienced this, we need to understand that most of the world does not follow DB principles!
Paid dating apps do some filtering for you. E.g., eHarmony doesn't allow married people. As you know, divorces take time, since you're 13 months separated but not divorced yet. I found about 1 in 10 first dates had enough ex baggage they brought up their ex's. That was an acceptable rate for me. A friend required anyone she met to have been divorced for at least one year because she had a lower tolerance for dealing with baggage. She'd taken a year off, and wanted others to have put the same effort in.
I mean to say, having a good dating experience has less to do with expecting others to be DBrs, and more to do with setting and maintaining standards as to whom you're willing to date.
Is it wrong though? I was a devoted husband and father. Always put my family first. Never so much as hugged another woman that wasn't a family member in our 25 years together. 6 months before BD I found my wife crying in the bedroom. I went to her side and asked if she was OK, through tears she begged me to take care of myself, said she couldn't bear the thought of life without me. Said she wouldn't be able to survive without me, and she feared what would happen to the kids. I reassured her that I felt great and would continue to make sure my health was such that I wouldn't be going anywhere. Just as a side note I've always eaten pretty well and stayed fit and have never been more than maybe 10 pounds overweight in my life, so this was coming out of nowhere. Anyway, 6 months later there I was sitting slack jawed as my loving wife said "I just don't want to be married anymore."
In this regard our situations are different. Your wife just grew apart from you, my wife specifically decided she didn't want to be married to me anymore. Too much stress, too much inattention to her needs, for example her love languages (I assume you know what those are). My attorney told me that my marriage started coming to an end 20 years ago, a death by a million cuts, a tally that grew each day.
Originally Posted by AnotherStander
My point is this- some people find themselves here because they treated their spouse poorly. They didn't respect them, didn't show them love, didn't treat them well. But some people find themselves here IN SPITE of having been a really good, or even fantastic spouse. You have to do some soul-searching to decide if you were the former or the latter. And you should by all means use this as a tool to make yourself a better person. But this may have a lot more to do with her going through something than your perceived failings as a husband.
I think that in either case, we need to look at our failings as a husband. Even if she just grew apart, or had an A with an OM, there are still lessons for us. Maybe it's being sure to not miss the early signs.
That would be the situation in my case. I had assumed, since our wedding date, that we would stay together no matter what. I never thought of confirming that with her, asking her specifically, "are we doing OK?" Had she ever asked me, I would have always said I was committed to her forever, til the day we died. But my STBXW could not have held it in; had I asked her 3 or 4 years ago, "are we OK?" she might have well broke down and told me she was contemplating divorce, or ending the marriage someday. I never asked her. That's on me.
Because she did give me signs. I am a more traditionally-fashioned man, with a senior management career, well-educated, and well-accomplished. Frankly, I think she was attracted to that. She wanted to be a full-time Mom and have me as the sole breadwinner. But somewhere along the line that changed. First off, she went back to work in 2009 because our oldest was headed for college 2 years later and we needed the cash flow. It changed her stress level, and my STBXW is a tender woman who internalizes work stress a lot. A LOT. It would not surprise me -- she never told me this -- that she resented having to go back to work.
Another sign was how she argued with me, probably beginning 10 years ago. At one point she actually started saying "F-- you!" on extremely rare occasions when she was really angry. Mind you, this never came about because I swore at her first. I never swore at her, ever. Never even called her a name. Rarely even raised my voice. But once every year, maybe two years, she would get angry enough to say that.
Yes I was shocked, but I forgave her. How could I not? I would say, "That really hurts, how can you say that?" and she would storm away. It would be forgotten an hour later. So I wrote it off. She's a lot like her mother, and her mother would do the same at times, say hurtful things that she really didn't mean. So I of course let the nastiness slide. It was so infrequent anyway.
Other times she would stubbornly stick to her guns during an argument, in spite of logic or the need to compromise. Usually it would be little things, like cutting back on the cable TV bill. We would begin to discuss it, she would raise the volume level, and then she would storm away saying something like, "I can't give in to you for my own self-respect!" Okay. I would usually reply with something like, "I understand that, but for harmony's sake, can we at least compromise?" If we compromised or found another approach it would be days later after her anger had passed.
What does all this mean? This tender-hearted, sweet woman, I was making her into an angry person for the first time in her life. Whether it was all me or 50-50, that was what was happening. And I did nothing actively to address it over those years, I just accepted it and waited for it to pass. And it didn't. It grew insider her and festered, until she walked out without notice.
Lesson learned to me forever. Watch for the early signs. Communicate as best as you can. Don't let the smoldering turn into a big fire.
Hi Tom, Paid dating apps do some filtering for you. E.g., eHarmony doesn't allow married people. As you know, divorces take time, since you're 13 months separated but not divorced yet. I found about 1 in 10 first dates had enough ex baggage they brought up their ex's. That was an acceptable rate for me. A friend required anyone she met to have been divorced for at least one year because she had a lower tolerance for dealing with baggage. She'd taken a year off, and wanted others to have put the same effort in.
I mean to say, having a good dating experience has less to do with expecting others to be DBrs, and more to do with setting and maintaining standards as to whom you're willing to date.
Ah. Very thoughtful. I like it. I believe in the "trust but verify" approach, at least looking ahead, but I also like the notion of having a clear standard. Bravo to you for trying dating apps but I haven't thought for even a moment about starting that way!
But I do have one question. Don't all divorcees have to eventually talk about their exes? Whether it was 10 years or 30, that relationship had a huge influence on their life, and who they are today! So would it be better to say what you're looking for is whether they have settled feelings about their ex and their former marriage? Because I find it hard to believe that it wouldn't be a topic of conversation. Certainly, for me at least, if the relationship was to get serious I would WANT to know if there was serious baggage or woundedness, and that could only come about by discussing that prior marriage.
Bravo to you for trying dating apps but I haven't thought for even a moment about starting that way!
I prefer to meet people in person, but eHarmony is worth considering you're divorced and eligible. I had only good experiences, or interesting experiences that made good stories.
Originally Posted by tom_h
Don't all divorcees have to eventually talk about their exes? Whether it was 10 years or 30, that relationship had a huge influence on their life, and who they are today! So would it be better to say what you're looking for is whether they have settled feelings about their ex and their former marriage?
I want to see *everything* settled. I can hang out with anyone for 2-3 hours without discussing my ex-wife, previous boss, or childhood. If you can't help but bring up on a first date how they wronged you, your current struggles with them, or how my preferences compare--you have work to do. It's not uncommon to do light probing about ex's on 2nd or 3rd dates to feel out for baggage. It's not uncommon for ex's to come up occasionally once you're in a relationship, e.g. "Our hand-off is at 6pm, so anytime 6:15pm or later is good." I probably more directly talked about my ex 1-2x per year in my last relationship, mostly about future choices like how to jointly attending a graduation or promotion ceremony and the afterparty.
