How am I going to do this? Should I do this?

[may22]

Hi Mar,

I understand how confusing it is to see someone you love and know so well struggling so much. I'm sure she does have a supreme emotional battle raging within. I think it would be a great idea to get away for a weekend with your BF-- a little break from all of this can only be helpful.

A little 2x4 though... kissing her on the forehead and R talks are pressure and I think it would really be best if you try to avoid those at all costs. From what you describe, I can't really agree that her behaviors and reactions are a roller coaster... to me, you kissing her on the forehead given everything that is going on is super confusing and I am not surprised that she asked you what is going on. If I were you, I would absolutely cut any behavior of my own out that could be interpreted as applying pressure. If you aren't sure if it is pressure, then don't do it.

Think about it like this.. you kiss her on the forehead. She doesn't feel what she thinks she is supposed to feel when her W does that (love, affection, etc). Instead, she probably feels guilty and bad for not feeling what she's supposed to feel, and then that sparks an R talk where she states to you she doesn't think she can ever feel the way you want her to feel. Those probably aren't thoughts you want going through her mind at this point. Also, every time she says out loud she doesn't love you like that it reinforces it for her. (Believe me, this is something I have learned the hard way.)

So--- be sure that you aren't doing anything that applies pressure and pushes her further away. No kissing, no hugging, no affectionate touches. No saying ILY. Be cool and detached. Give her space and use the space you've gained to GAL.

(((Mar)))

[Mar252]

Think about it like this.. you kiss her on the forehead. She doesn't feel what she thinks she is supposed to feel when her W does that (love, affection, etc). Instead, she probably feels guilty and bad for not feeling what she's supposed to feel, and then that sparks an R talk where she states to you she doesn't think she can ever feel the way you want her to feel. Those probably aren't thoughts you want going through her mind at this point. Also, every time she says out loud she doesn't love you like that it reinforces it for her. (Believe me, this is something I have learned the hard way.)

So--- be sure that you aren't doing anything that applies pressure and pushes her further away. No kissing, no hugging, no affectionate touches. No saying ILY. Be cool and detached. Give her space and use the space you've gained to GAL.

May, this was a sobering reality check. I never considered it this way. It was 6:30 in the morning, I automatically leaned down and kissed her. At no point did I stop to think how it would make her feel. I considered she was upset because I kissed her and just walked away with no conversation. Your scenario is totally plausible and probably correct.

Thank you for this. I am trying.

[may22]

Hi Mar,

I don't mean to make you feel badly at all-- I know for me this is the hardest thing I've ever dealt with. (I really, really hope this is the hardest thing I ever have to deal with.) So I totally get it, I've been there too. Broke every DB rule and then someone here told me to just brush myself off and get back on the horse! So here I am, telling you the same.

I think one of the hardest things with DBing is that these behaviors and interactions are totally ingrained. You've literally been doing them for DECADES. It is incredibly difficult to stop. Some of the vets say your S has "fired you" as their wife... I hated that, and I think it is sometimes harder for those of us who have Ss who don't just walk out the door without a backwards look. But it's true. They no longer see us as they once did. The moment they started the A they metaphorically took off their wedding rings and started a new relationship, even though they can't quite let go of us either.

It is hard to live in the same house and DB. It is a choice you make (and one that I've made, so I totally get it) but it means you need to be on all the time, always monitoring your own actions and responses, pasting a smile on your face when you don't feel it, dressing up and getting out of the house even if it means you just drive to the store and eat popcorn in the parking lot with makeup on. Start small and just keep going. You've got this.

M

[Mar252]

May,

You did not make me feel badly at all. Please provide all the 2x4 you feel are necessary. Believe me when I tell you that I need them and am appreciative.

It is hard to live in the same house and DB. It is a choice you make (and one that I've made, so I totally get it) but it means you need to be on all the time, always monitoring your own actions and responses, pasting a smile on your face when you don't feel it, dressing up and getting out of the house even if it means you just drive to the store and eat popcorn in the parking lot with makeup on. Start small and just keep going. You've got this.

This literally made me laugh out loud because I did a version of it last Saturday. I bought new clothes a couple of weeks ago including shoes. On Saturday, I put on a whole new outfit, put makeup on (which I never wear on a daily basis), told her I was going out and drove to our local beach. Sat on a bench on the boardwalk, staring at the water and listening to music for 3 hours. Came home, she never commented on my new outfit or asked where I had been. But it did feel good just to get out.
.

[Valeska19]

I do need to take care of myself and probably will buy that plane ticket but my perspective has changed a bit since yesterday. I spent hours reading posts on the MLC thread and it has become clearer that this is what my W is experiencing. She had a hysterectomy 2.5 years ago and I think that was the catalyst. All of her behaviors over the past 2 years align with MLC actions. Then again, I could just be searching for the perfect answer to my ever present "why".

"searching for the 'why' answer" is a completely normal part of the process. Also - not super helpful - as it continues to put the focus on your W versus you. What is the healthiest for you? Buying that plane ticket or stay home for the holidays?

Her behaviors and reactions are a rollercoaster. For example, this morning she was sitting in the kitchen and I went over to her and said, "good morning" and kissed her on the forehead and just walked away. I have been trying my damndest to DB. I went back to the MBR, laid in bed and turned the news on.

10 minutes later she comes and sits on the bed besides me with a very pained look on her face and asks, "what is going on with you". My response, "I'm just trying to figure out how to do this". She starts a R conversation. I tried to validate as mush as possible. The gist of the conversation, she does not want a divorce but knows that our marriage is over. She doesn't know if she could ever give me the things I want, ie love, affection, trust, intimacy, sex, etc. I offered to leave for a while to give her space and she got angry. Told me she wasn't asking me to leave my home. I said I knew she wasn't asking I was offering. She said a couple of more things and I then asked her to tell me what she wanted. Big mistake, she yelled at me "don't ask me what I want". She caught herself and apologized for yelling. But it was the end of the conversation.

She really has no idea what she wants and I think she has a supreme emotional battle raging within. She does realize that something internally is not right but she can't overcome it. She went to a hormone specialist a couple of weeks ago and those were the test results we were looking at the other day. Some of her numbers were way off. I pray it's just some major hormonal imbalance that can be fixed.

The rollercoaster can be so painful. How do you get off the ride? What do you want Mar? Do you want to be married to someone who can't give intimacy, trust, affection, etc? My guess is probably not. I'm not saying to jump to a D here but I think there are some boundaries you can establish to protect yourself. What do you think those would be?

I think I need to stay and just be her Lighthouse. I do need to do some serious GAL but difficult with COVID and working from home. My area is talking about a resurgence and considering pulling back on recent openings. Maybe I will do a weekend getaway to my BF out of state. By the way, my BF is the only one that knows about my current sitch.

I think the swinging between leaving and going is completely normal. You don't have to make the decision to leave the home today but you can also be a lighthouse that takes care of yourself. What does that look like?

[Mar252]

Hi Valeska,

The rollercoaster can be so painful. How do you get off the ride? What do you want Mar? Do you want to be married to someone who can't give intimacy, trust, affection, etc? My guess is probably not. I'm not saying to jump to a D here but I think there are some boundaries you can establish to protect yourself. What do you think those would be?

I am having a tough emotional day today. Sitting here with tears in my eyes at the moment. I want all the things she is telling me that she cannot give. If she looks at me one more time and tells me ILYBIANILWYA, I think I will lose it. I really do need to get off this ride. Looking to go away next weekend to visit my BF out of state. Then I seriously need to consider buying that plane ticket. I sincerely think it would be best.

[KristinG]

Hey Mar. Sorry you're having a tough emotional day. Those are really hard. Maybe try to find a way to distance yourself from the ILYB statements. Remind yourself that she is saying those things because they are her FEELINGS at the moment and not necessarily truths. I think our WS convince themselves that they aren't in love anymore and that the feelings are gone forever instead of making the choice to love and work on building those feelings back. It's a cop out and a terribly painful thing to hear as a BS. Getting away will help do you some good. There will still be times when you feel the rush of emotion, panic, and fear, but there will also be times when you don't think about everything going on for a few minutes and your mind is clear. Those are more peaceful moments.

May is 100 percent correct on the kissing her on the forehead 2X4s. (If it helps, that is still a 2X4 for me as well). I am the world's worst for being too nurturing and caring. I'm FINALLY working on it, but I am very affectionate and right now all that is going to do is reinforce the fact that she doesn't think she has feelings for you and make her feel guilty for "stringing you along" instead of letting you go so you can be happy. My WW brings up the fact that she doesn't deserve me, I should go and be happy with someone else, and that she can't feel that way for me again, etc, blah blah blah, barf. Start with little things and don't think of it as pushing her away. Do it for you, and to gain perspective on being a solo Mar. One thing that I've started doing is not initiating a hug goodbye and not rubbing her feet when we are lounging on the couch. We had always been a cuddly couple and now I don't try any of it. I will receive affection, but even that is waning mostly due to the distant nature of our current sitch.

I find it incredibly helpful on tough emotional days to do 2 things. First, call a friend and (if possible) get a hug. You need someone you can cry and vent and rage to that will just be with you and listen. It's honestly better if they don't give advice. Just someone that tells you they love you and that they will support you in any decisions you ever need to make regarding WW. Second, do something small for yourself today. Even if it is just making a cup of tea or taking a warm shower (aromatherapy and deep breathing in the shower is heaven sent). Before going to bed tonight, tell yourself that tomorrow will be a better day. I like to do some form of self care right before bed and try to fall asleep with a positive mindset so that the next morning I am primed to make the best of the day.

((Mar))

KG

[Yail]

Mar, a few gems of advice are in what these lovelies have written to you. Sometimes what is simple is most helpful.

"searching for the 'why' answer" is a completely normal part of the process. Also - not super helpful - as it continues to put the focus on your W versus you.

Yes, it is completely part of the process, and it might go on for a while. So don't beat yourself up over digging for the why-why-why because I do think we need to go through that. But as Valeska said, try to bring your thoughts back to yourself when possible. Over time, you'll start to see that you might not ever get an answer to your "why" - no matter what the outcome is. You have to make peace with the fact you will never fully understand it. I knew I was healing when I stopped asking "why", because I knew it didn't matter in the end.

Regarding the ILYBNILWY statements: I don't know if this helps or makes it worse for you, but it helped me. I just reminded myself that my XW DID love me. She might not now, but what we had was real and true and it lasted for a good long while. For me that was my comfort. I could move forward knowing we were not inauthentic, it's just that it had changed.

Getting dressed up (anything but sweatpants, really) and going out is incredibly important. You have to remember you are more than just a W and partner - you are a productive member of society who is connected to the world around you. You have permission to withdraw some, but don't ever do it fully. Even spending time in nature by yourself is worth it because you simply cannot sit behind 4 walls 24-7 and expect to feel good about yourself. I'm glad you know this.

[Core]

Hi Mar,

I wanted to chime in to help. I believe the ladies here have given you excellent advice and in a much softer and well rounded way than I can communicate. What I wanted to mention and reinforce is the kisses, ILYs, hugs or anything along those lines. You are reinforcing her bad behavior with great rewards. Neither of you somewhere in your hearts want that right now.

It sounds like you have been having relationship chats with her. If she's initiating by all means listen and validate her feelings. If a boundary is crossed such as talking about OW, you can tell her you won't have those discussions and if she brings it up, you can remove yourself from the discussion.

If I could roll back the clock, I would listen to the advice I received dozens of times and stopped initiating any form of R chat. Its for both of you. The things you hear can haunt you, produce PTSD and rip away any confidence you have regenerated.

It's hard, it feels impossible and yet you are able to get through this rough patch. In regards to the ILYB's. She felt differently about you before, even married you. These are her current feelings and are not set in stone.

[Valeska19]

I am having a tough emotional day today. Sitting here with tears in my eyes at the moment. I want all the things she is telling me that she cannot give. If she looks at me one more time and tells me ILYBIANILWYA, I think I will lose it. I really do need to get off this ride. Looking to go away next weekend to visit my BF out of state. Then I seriously need to consider buying that plane ticket. I sincerely think it would be best.

The getaways sound nice. Even buying that plane ticket home. Self Care is so important in this time. And I know the doubts you have around being around your family versus staying home.

But the ugly truth is that regardless of your decision - the holidays will most likely hurt so choosing the decision that makes YOU feel the most supported during the difficult time will be crucial. It may feel contradictory to what your heart wants... but your heart will thank you.

My 1st year in BD - I went home back east for 5 weeks. It was my first holiday away from my XW. I cried a bunch but I was so thankful that my sister was there each time. Looking back now (almost 10 years later) I really cherish that time spent with my family. I'm huge into holidays and being with them helped that part of me survive my BD/D.

If you sincerely think going home is the best for you - Then Do It! It will be hard, but you will get through it.

((Mar))