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Originally Posted by LH19
Tommy,

There is really nothing to ask. You just described 97% of long term marriages. You weren't meeting her needs so she had no desire to meet yours. The marriage becomes unfulfilling for both parties involved. Usually its just a matter of timing in terms of who pulls the rip cord first.

That's why it's now important to separate the desire for the person, from the desire for resumption of control, stability, in your life. Your brain is telling you that getting W back will restore these things, but it won't.

So ask yourself, what do you want and why do you want it?

When I first saw your reply, LH19, I felt slighted. Now, after all these weeks and after getting through about half of Michele's book, I think I understand better. So I'll try now to answer your question.

My wants (these reflect my age, which is late 50s):

* To be a better man, the type of man a woman really wants and needs, one who actively works to win her love every day. This is different than the man I was before, who went through the marriage passively, just figuring things would work out without direct action.

* I need connection, e.g., eventually remarriage, with another woman. I'm too young to stay single forever. I've learned that I am more whole when married to a woman who loves me without condition, who stands beside me, who has my back, who thinks I'm awesome even when I'm not. I will do the same for her.

* Stay engaged intellectually somehow and somewhere, hopefully with my second wife.

* Stay physically fit.

* Be a good father and grandfather someday, making time for these essential people in my life.

Is this a good start?

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Hi Tom,

Are you happy?


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
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Originally Posted by Steve85
Originally Posted by harvey
BTW, I started dating my GF a little over a year after BD and about 9 months after divorce. Everybody's timeframe is different. I think if you really look inside yourself, you'll know if you are ready.


harvey, the problem isn't timeframe....it is mindset. If the LBS is dating to "stop the bleeding" (IE put on a bandaid) then they are doing it for the wrong reasons. Your timeframe is a short one. Not sure how things are going with your gf, but I would argue that in the vast majority of LBSs, 9 months post D, after BD was just 4 months prior, is not a healthy timeframe. Maybe it will work out for you...maybe it won't. But LBSs have other things to be focusing on in the shortterm and dating isn't one of them.


People are built different. I've always been somebody that handles adversity well. DB through mid summer 2019 was the toughest time of my life, but by August I felt ready to date. I met my GF at a funeral in April 2019 and we hit it off, but I told her that I wasn't ready to start dating. I wasn't. We kept in contact via text. By August I felt ready and I told her that. We've been dating 13 months and things are going strong. We could break up, any relationship could end, but it's not because I wasn't ready to start dating 13 months ago.

Some people may need more than 2 years. I don't think 1 year or 2 years is a magic number. Maybe most men aren't ready to start dating after 9 months or even 1 year, but some will be. You have to be completely honest with yourself though. I think what helped me was the fact we were separated immediately after DB (even before since we were in the process of moving to another state).

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Originally Posted by Ready2Change
Hi Tom,

Are you happy?

Well, there are several ways to answer this.

The polite answer, to most acquanitances, is yes. The shock is over, I've gotten to a stable point, and while the divorce isn't final it will be in a few months, hopefully.

The correct answer is any happiness is mostly superficial. I am still in a haze sometimes, shaking my head as I walk around the house, having gotten used to the fact that she's not here but recognizing that this is still her house -- the furniture she chose, the wall covers and more. I am still in therapy and still working on myself. So from that perspective, I'm not happy yet.

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Originally Posted by tom_h
Originally Posted by Ready2Change
Hi Tom,

Are you happy?

Well, there are several ways to answer this.

The polite answer, to most acquanitances, is yes. The shock is over, I've gotten to a stable point, and while the divorce isn't final it will be in a few months, hopefully.

The correct answer is any happiness is mostly superficial. I am still in a haze sometimes, shaking my head as I walk around the house, having gotten used to the fact that she's not here but recognizing that this is still her house -- the furniture she chose, the wall covers and more. I am still in therapy and still working on myself. So from that perspective, I'm not happy yet.


Outward shows of happiness can be superficial....yes. But true happiness isn't superficial. It is a deep down security in your own worth, being able to enjoy life, and moving forward with purpose and understanding. Do not confuse sorrow, pain, and mourning as a lack of happiness. The happiest people on earth still feel sad and mourn loss. This is why I like to use the analogy of death of a spouse. Your spouse chose to leave you and move on to a life without you. But there are other ways to lose a spouse: disease, accident, malfeasance. Those that are internally happy will mourn that loss, but then face a new day with bravery and zest. Those that had their happiness to wrapped up in their spouse (codependence) will feel paralyzed and unable to move forward.

So while you are still occasionally in a haze, shaking your head as you walk around the house, and still mourn the loss of your W, that doesn't mean that you aren't content in the fact that you are secure in who you are and who you want to be, and moving forward with your best life possible. We do not control what happens to us in this life, but we certainly control how we react to it.


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Originally Posted by tom_h
The polite answer, to most acquaintances, is yes. ....The correct answer is any happiness is mostly superficial....So from that perspective, I'm not happy yet
Thanks for clarifying. I have been there.

Finding happiness while single (not being in a relationship) is part of the process. Focus on getting there before dating. You will attract much healthier women into your life. I am not saying to avoid interacting with woman. There are other skills and behavior to learn and practice.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
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Originally Posted by harvey
Originally Posted by Steve85
Originally Posted by harvey
BTW, I started dating my GF a little over a year after BD and about 9 months after divorce. Everybody's timeframe is different. I think if you really look inside yourself, you'll know if you are ready.


harvey, the problem isn't timeframe....it is mindset. If the LBS is dating to "stop the bleeding" (IE put on a bandaid) then they are doing it for the wrong reasons. Your timeframe is a short one. Not sure how things are going with your gf, but I would argue that in the vast majority of LBSs, 9 months post D, after BD was just 4 months prior, is not a healthy timeframe. Maybe it will work out for you...maybe it won't. But LBSs have other things to be focusing on in the shortterm and dating isn't one of them.


People are built different. I've always been somebody that handles adversity well. DB through mid summer 2019 was the toughest time of my life, but by August I felt ready to date. I met my GF at a funeral in April 2019 and we hit it off, but I told her that I wasn't ready to start dating. I wasn't. We kept in contact via text. By August I felt ready and I told her that. We've been dating 13 months and things are going strong. We could break up, any relationship could end, but it's not because I wasn't ready to start dating 13 months ago.

Some people may need more than 2 years. I don't think 1 year or 2 years is a magic number. Maybe most men aren't ready to start dating after 9 months or even 1 year, but some will be. You have to be completely honest with yourself though. I think what helped me was the fact we were separated immediately after DB (even before since we were in the process of moving to another state).


harvey, I would qualify you as the exception, not the rule, though. Most people need time to recover, heal, improve and get themselves ready to move forward with someone else. I think very few people do that that and that is why the divorce stats look like this:

- 1st marriages ending in D: 40-50%
- 2nd marriages ending in D: 60-70%
- 3rd marriages ending in D: 70-80%

Most people do not want to be alone so they jump at the next thing that comes along. But those numbers above are sobering numbers. The best way to trend towards the % that stays married is to put in the work necessary to heal and improve. Learn and grow. Rather than just want sex and to have that itch scratched. I feel sex is a big reason people jump to marriage #2...AND THEN #3......and so on.


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Originally Posted by Steve85
harvey, I would qualify you as the exception, not the rule, though. Most people need time to recover, heal, improve and get themselves ready to move forward with someone else. I think very few people do that that and that is why the divorce stats look like this:

- 1st marriages ending in D: 40-50%
- 2nd marriages ending in D: 60-70%
- 3rd marriages ending in D: 70-80%

Most people do not want to be alone so they jump at the next thing that comes along. But those numbers above are sobering numbers. The best way to trend towards the % that stays married is to put in the work necessary to heal and improve. Learn and grow. Rather than just want sex and to have that itch scratched. I feel sex is a big reason people jump to marriage #2...AND THEN #3......and so on.

Steve, those are very sobering statistics. I wanted the probability of my first marriage ending to be 0%, and I feel the same way about, someday in the future, my second. I'd rather stay single than go through the pain of failure again.

At the very least, rest assured that I understand the fundamental weakness of men in general, that they mistake intense sex for love, not realizing that the intense sex always diminishes, leaving them with nothing but an empty relationship.

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Originally Posted by tom_h
Originally Posted by Steve85
harvey, I would qualify you as the exception, not the rule, though. Most people need time to recover, heal, improve and get themselves ready to move forward with someone else. I think very few people do that that and that is why the divorce stats look like this:

- 1st marriages ending in D: 40-50%
- 2nd marriages ending in D: 60-70%
- 3rd marriages ending in D: 70-80%

Most people do not want to be alone so they jump at the next thing that comes along. But those numbers above are sobering numbers. The best way to trend towards the % that stays married is to put in the work necessary to heal and improve. Learn and grow. Rather than just want sex and to have that itch scratched. I feel sex is a big reason people jump to marriage #2...AND THEN #3......and so on.

Steve, those are very sobering statistics. I wanted the probability of my first marriage ending to be 0%, and I feel the same way about, someday in the future, my second. I'd rather stay single than go through the pain of failure again.

At the very least, rest assured that I understand the fundamental weakness of men in general, that they mistake intense sex for love, not realizing that the intense sex always diminishes, leaving them with nothing but an empty relationship.



Amazingly well said tom! I will be adding your last sentence to R2C's quotes thread! Hear hear!


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Originally Posted by Steve85
Originally Posted by tom_h
Originally Posted by Steve85
harvey, I would qualify you as the exception, not the rule, though. Most people need time to recover, heal, improve and get themselves ready to move forward with someone else. I think very few people do that that and that is why the divorce stats look like this:

- 1st marriages ending in D: 40-50%
- 2nd marriages ending in D: 60-70%
- 3rd marriages ending in D: 70-80%

Most people do not want to be alone so they jump at the next thing that comes along. But those numbers above are sobering numbers. The best way to trend towards the % that stays married is to put in the work necessary to heal and improve. Learn and grow. Rather than just want sex and to have that itch scratched. I feel sex is a big reason people jump to marriage #2...AND THEN #3......and so on.

Steve, those are very sobering statistics. I wanted the probability of my first marriage ending to be 0%, and I feel the same way about, someday in the future, my second. I'd rather stay single than go through the pain of failure again.

At the very least, rest assured that I understand the fundamental weakness of men in general, that they mistake intense sex for love, not realizing that the intense sex always diminishes, leaving them with nothing but an empty relationship.



Amazingly well said tom! I will be adding your last sentence to R2C's quotes thread! Hear hear!

Well there is a corollary to that, which I've heard of, please confirm if true. Divorced women are motivated to remarry and are prone to the same mistake; in their case their sex drive goes into hyperdrive in order to snare a man, even past age 50 or 60. Once the vows are taken, however, life returns to normal, and the fellow wonders why she doesn't love him as much anymore. Because a woman's natural state, especially past children and age 40, is not a sex drive in hyperdrive. I've only heard this from others; is it true to an extent, or a stereotype?

If true, the lesson here to men at least is this. When you're ready for relationships, understand the difference between sex and love. Focus on the non-sexual issues of a relationship with a new woman and be aware that the physical side might well blind you to the rest and cloud the clarity of your thinking.

Last edited by tom_h; 10/09/20 05:17 PM.
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